Is it easier to be Protestant or Catholic?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Cat
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Remember that MARY was in a “crisis pregnancy” in a way BEFORE Joseph was stopped by the Angel when the Angel told him of the unique circumstances of Mary’s pregnancy. She could have been abandoned by Joseph and stoned to death.

Protestants should NOT support killing a preborn baby. Remember** they should see Christ in everyone**, EVEN THE PREBORN BABY!

And what about the BABYS right to CHOOSE? The BABY"S right to LIVE?

Life begins at CONCEPTION. There are NO BUTS about it! The baby already has a heart beat and and most likely the detectable brain waves when the first trimester abortions occur…the child is ALIVE.
 
Cat said:
But please don’t get the idea that Protestants never kneel in church. When they do kneel, they turn around and face the pew and use the seat to rest their arms on. I’ve seen this many, many times in my 47 years in evangelical Protestant churches. In fact, my husband would often kneel during our prayer times in the various Protestant churches we were part of, and no one ever thought anything of it or criticized him.

So if you are inclined to kneel in a Protestant church during prayer, go right ahead. It’s OK.
Click to expand...
True…but different denominations have different traditions. If you kneeled at my old United Methodist Church (from before I became a Catholic) people probably would’ve looked at you like you were crazy. At the more ‘evangelical’ churches, it is more common, but I have only rarely seen any kneeling at all outside of the Catholic Church – though admittedly the vast majority of my Protestant experiences were in the UMC tradition.
Roy5 said:
  1. One might argue that the greatest ‘abortionist’ is Mother Nature. Millions of miscarriages occur regularly. Now, is God behind those? Interesting question. I’m sure that the answer is complex. If ‘his eye is on the sparrow…’ well.
Click to expand...
Roy, thanks for your contribution to the discussion…this one struck me though. Natural death, even in the womb, is a very different thing from an intentional killing. A miscarriage is like when an adult dies due to illness – there is generally no immorality or evil involved in it. Abortion is like when an adult dies due to the intentional, unjust act of another human being against them. There is a night and day difference, even in the womb.

As to whether God is behind them, well, God is behind everything. He has His reasons for taking life. Everybody has a time to go, and for some that time is while they are still in the womb.

Anyway, just some food for thought. God bless you!
 
Roy5 said:
Back to the question of Protestants supporting abortion. A few points.
  1. It is true that some mainline denominations were generally supportive of the woman’s right to choose. I’m not sure that can be called pro-abortion.
Code: 
2. My sense is that mainline Protestantism has moved to a less sympathetic view of abortion-on-demand over the past 15-20 years. The Methodist Church, as I recall, issued a statement at their last General Conference recognizing that Methodists are divided on the issue. They called for making abortions as rare as possible. 

3. The key concept among mainline Protestants generally is freedom of opinion on many such issues. This is where mainline Protestantism differs from traditional Catholicism. It doesn't require lockstep acceptance of any official position of the church. Methodists, ELCA Lutherans, UCC members, Episcopalians, Presbyterians and others enjoy the freedom to think individually. They regard this as somehow the American way.

4. Where many Protestants are apt to differ from traditional Catholics is when life really begins. They might, for example, consider it more acceptable to abort a fetus in the first trimester and oppose it later on. Etc. My guess is that millions of Catholics feel similarly.

5. When it comes to evangelical Protestants, that's apt to be an entirely different story. They usually are strongly anti-abortion. 

6. One might argue that the greatest 'abortionist' is Mother Nature. Millions of miscarriages occur regularly. Now, is God behind those? Interesting question. I'm sure that the answer is complex. If 'his eye is on the sparrow...' well.

7. The issue for many is women's rights. Does the government have the right to control her reproductive process? Talk about big brother government. Some argue that the decision, at least early in a pregnancy, should be made by the mother, the father?, and the doctor. 

 8. I recall one devout Catholic couple who used the church-approved method of birtb control. The doctor had warned the woman that after six children already a seventh would likely bring on her death and that of the baby. She became pregnant. They thought of a possible abortion, but 'trusted in God' as advised by their priest. The mother and baby died, leaving a grieving husband and six motherless child. The husband took the family out of the Catholic Church, has only angry words to say about it, and they now attend an Episcopal Church.

 9., There is an intelligent and reasonable way to look at all this, on a case by case basis, and this obsession some people have over the issue on either extreme is unfortunate and not very helpful. 

10. I'm sure that if souls occur immediately with pregnancy (as I recall St. Augustine and others thought it was in the third or fourth month?), those souls that depart this world due to miscarriages and abortions are in the presence of Christ who said "let the little ones come unto me...."

 Oh, and if God ordered the killing of everyone in Jericho and Ai, even the babies, and Saul was commanded by God to slaughter every remaining Amalekite - even 'sucklings' the Bible says, and certainly many babies in the womb - could it be that he isn't all that concerned about the murder of babies born and unborn? Makes you wonder.
Click to expand...
Roy5, I appreciate the time and thought that you put into this post. But I have to admit, many of your points are quite troubling, and the last statement is positively hard to stomach.

The Bible is full of references to God’s love and concern for the defenseless, the poor, the orphans, and the widows. I’m sure that He is not only concerned, but horrified and angry about the murder of babies born and unborn.

I personally believe that the only reason that the United States is still here is because of all the prayers of faithful Christians, Catholic and non-Catholic, begging God to please have mercy on us and spare us for the sake of the 10 righteous people in the United States. If it were not for those prayers, I believe we would have been wiped off the face of the earth years ago.
 
Douay-Rheims Bible
For my yoke is sweet and my burden light.Matthew 11:30

If we are truly following in the ways of Christ we should never regard it as a hard or burdensome task but embrace it with joy.
 
Redbaron998 said:
Well as a convert from protestantism I can tell you that overall (my personal experinces) there is a lot less personal accountability in protestantism.

You don’t really have to hold all the beliefs of your Church (and you can just switch if you want) You dont HAVE to come to chuch on sunday, there is no confession as well.

So was it easier to be protestant? Yes, but do I want it to be easy or do I want to do it right. Also the idea of being in a “Church” where they dont believe in the real presence in the Eucharist is to terrible to even think about.
Click to expand...
As a practising Anglo Catholic I can confirm that there is confession (you just have to read the parish information sources) along with six other sacraments. Also I do believe in the Real Presence, in the tabernacle and in society. I have no problem loving Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament and know that He brings incalculable consolation to those who cannot attend mass and are visited by the priest. Regarding Sunday attendance, I go because I just have to see Jesus every week, and meet him in the Eucharist and in the good people of my parish.👍
 
Ref: “Remember that MARY was in a “crisis pregnancy” in a way BEFORE Joseph was stopped by the Angel when the Angel told him of the unique circumstances of Mary’s pregnancy. She could have been abandoned by Joseph and stoned to death.”

The above statement is not true in any shape form or fashion what soever. When Joseph discovered that Mary was pregnant. He resolved to divorce her quietly.
Matthew 1:19 Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.

You assertions of Protestant support for the destruction of unborn children is offensive and untrue. The vast majority of church going Protestants are like Roman Catholics Pro-Lifers and it is a terrible charge to suggest otherwise.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour

Below are just a few of the pro-life Protestant churches in the USA.

The Christian right
Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod
Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
Church of England
Anglican Church in North America
Eastern Orthodox Church
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
National Association of Evangelicals
The United Methodist Church
The Southern Baptists
American Baptist Churches
The Episcopal Church

In my home country of Northern Ireland all Protestant churches are pro-life and anti-abortion.And abortion in Northern Ireland is in fact illegal.
 
It all depends, as they say. We need to define our terms when comparing the relative ease of living as a Catholic or as a Protestant. “Protestant” is a word which covers a vast, and ever-growing, number of Christian denominations. Some more conservative Protestant denominations are more strict and seem to have instituted a number of man-made tabboos which are seen as being sinful. For example, enjoying a little wine with dinner or a pre-dinner cocktail would be seen as being sinful in some of the more conservative Protestant churches. Other examples of this kind of man-made tradition can include a prohibition concerning secular rock music or in some cases, even inocent card games. Avoiding the things that Jesus described as being sinful is hard enough without creating new sins, don’t you think?;); On the other hand, some of the more liberal Protestant denominations seem to have abandoned traditional morality and are in favour of things like same-sex marriage, articial birth control and abortion, to name just a few. In addition, theology is largely a matter of personal convictions in many Protestant denominations. Things like the “sinner’s prayer” and eternal assurance of salvation can seem to make Protestanism like “the softer option,” I suppose.

Speaking as a relatively recent convert, I have found that the availabilty of the sacraments make it much less difficult to live the Christian life. I find it somewhat easier to avoid certain types of sin when I know that the confessional is waiting for me each time I “slip-up.” Furthermore, the grace which we can receive through participating in both the Mass and the Eucharist can make sin easier to avoid. I greatly value the prayerful
(and powerful) intercession of the saints. It’s nice to know that someone else is “in my corner,” especially when that person is already in a state of perfect righteousness! :knight2:
 
Roy5 said:
Code: 
 8. I recall one devout Catholic couple who used the church-approved method of birtb control. The doctor had warned the woman that after six children already a seventh would likely bring on her death and that of the baby. She became pregnant. They thought of a possible abortion, but 'trusted in God' as advised by their priest. The mother and baby died, leaving a grieving husband and six motherless child. The husband took the family out of the Catholic Church, has only angry words to say about it, and they now attend an Episcopal Church.
Click to expand...
There is no such thing as ‘Church approved birth control’.

"Few realize that up until 1930, all Protestant denominations agreed with the Catholic Church’s teaching condemning contraception as sinful. At its 1930 Lambeth Conference, the Anglican church, swayed by growing social pressure, announced that contraception would be allowed in some circumstances. Soon the Anglican church completely caved in, allowing contraception across the board. Since then, all other Protestant denominations have followed suit. Today, the Catholic Church alone proclaims the historic Christian position on contraception. " - Catholic Answers
 
**PiousTemplar
Code: 
I would suggest that when a married couple follows the church-approved, calendar-regulated sexual relationship they definitely are using a method of birth control. Why else are they following this system except to control the number of children they have? Isn't that what birth control is all about? Whether the method is 'natural' or with artificial help the goal is the same - to avoid pregnancy! 

It is rather like church-approved divorce, better-known as annulment. No, you can't get a 'divorce' and remarry unless you get church approval. The result is the same: the dissolution of marriage. And, by the way, Jesus never said that divorce was the unforgiveable sin. I generally oppose divorce also, but certain circumstances justify it without a church judgment that the marriage was flawed to begin with. Maybe the marriage to begin was fine, but altered circumstances along the way turns happiness into a nightmare. 

 Somtimes I find myself - unjustly, true - comparing this church effort to regulate our personal lives as somewhar akin to shariah law. That's what Muslims (as well as Orthodox Jews) have. The religious establishment is in control. I personally prefer the sytem which our founders set in place. On the other hand, if Muslims, Orthodox Jews and traditionalist Catholics approve of religion- controlled lives, fine. Just don't try to impose one's religious ideas on others, as happens in many Muslim countries, in Israel, and often (years ago) in Catholic nations. I much prefer the US system of democracy.  

 God bless.**
 
RICKY_RASPER said:
Ref: “Remember that MARY was in a “crisis pregnancy” in a way BEFORE Joseph was stopped by the Angel when the Angel told him of the unique circumstances of Mary’s pregnancy. She could have been abandoned by Joseph and stoned to death.”

The above statement is not true in any shape form or fashion what soever. When Joseph discovered that Mary was pregnant. He resolved to divorce her quietly.
Matthew 1:19 Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.

You assertions of Protestant support for the destruction of unborn children is offensive and untrue. The vast majority of church going Protestants are like Roman Catholics Pro-Lifers and it is a terrible charge to suggest otherwise.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour

Below are just a few of the pro-life Protestant churches in the USA.

The Christian right
Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod
Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
Church of England
Anglican Church in North America
Eastern Orthodox Church
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
National Association of Evangelicals
The United Methodist Church
The Southern Baptists
American Baptist Churches
The Episcopal Church

In my home country of Northern Ireland all Protestant churches are pro-life and anti-abortion.And abortion in Northern Ireland is in fact illegal.
Click to expand...
I reeeally don’t think that his post was meant to accuse protestants of being pro-abortion. I really think it was a response to Roy5’s pro-abortion biblical assessment made immediately previous to his post.
 
yes, compsciguy, it was a reply to Roy5 trying to say that “abortion is fine in the bible”?
 
CompSciGuy said:
I reeeally don’t think that his post was meant to accuse protestants of being pro-abortion. I really think it was a response to Roy5’s pro-abortion biblical assessment made immediately previous to his post.
Click to expand...
Your list of pro-life churches includes the United Methodist Church.

Here is a link to the United Methodist Church’s stand on abortion:

umc.org/site/c.lwL4KnN1LtH/b.2239163/k.A82E/Abortion_Overview.htm

When I read through this statement, here is what I see: “We think abortion is bad, but we support a woman’s right to choose abortion.”

That is NOT a prolife position. That is what is known as “fence-sitting.”

I have pulled out the statement about the UMC’s support of the National Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, in which it is specifically stated that the UMC supports abortion rights: archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=4&mid=9239

I have also read through the Statement of Faith of the UMC, and it is very clear that the UMC supports a woman’s right to choose abortion. Again, this is NOT a pro-life position. It’s a pro-choice position.

There is no one, not even the most ardent supporters of abortion rights, who will say in public that “abortion is good and right.” Everyone, even our very pro-choice President, says that abortion is something “bad.”

But the pro-life people and organizations go on to say that abortion should not be legal, and that it should never or very seldom be an option.

It is NOT pro-life to say that even though it’s sad, it should still be an option. That’s like saying, “I think stealing is wrong, but I support the right of others to steal.”

The UMC can’t have it both ways.

My parents-in-law are members of a United Methodist Church, and my dear father-in-law has repeatedly engaged in verbal debates about a Christian stand against abortion with the various pastors and bishops who have been in authority over his church Good for him, and shame on the UMC for not being true to their founders and denouncing the evils of abortion. God have mercy on those in the UMC who, through innocence or denal of what their church advocates, inadvertantly contribute to the continuation of abortion as a “legal right” here in the United States.
 
Perhaps I’m mistaken, but I believe the United Methodist statement in 2008 pulled back some an endorsement of a woman’s right to choose. I believe I heard that the more recent statement focused on the right of Methodists to disagree with one another on this issue. This is the general approach of Methodists and other mainline Protestants on a number of issues - ‘think and let think’ as Wesley put it.
It will be interesting to see what the next General Conference (2012) of the United Methodist Church will say. Gov. Perry is a United Methodist. I have found that Methodism is very inclusive. George Wallace was a Methodist, but so was George McGovern. It seems to me that Catholicism is similiarly diverse. Many Catholic politicians are 'pro-choice', perhaps the majority of Catholic leaders like Pelosi, Leahy, etc.
 
Roy5 said:
Perhaps I’m mistaken, but I believe the United Methodist statement in 2008 pulled back some an endorsement of a woman’s right to choose. I believe I heard that the more recent statement focused on the right of Methodists to disagree with one another on this issue. This is the general approach of Methodists and other mainline Protestants on a number of issues - ‘think and let think’ as Wesley put it.
Code: 
It will be interesting to see what the next General Conference (2012) of the United Methodist Church will say. Gov. Perry is a United Methodist. I have found that Methodism is very inclusive. George Wallace was a Methodist, but so was George McGovern. It seems to me that Catholicism is similiarly diverse. Many Catholic politicians are 'pro-choice', perhaps the majority of Catholic leaders like Pelosi, Leahy, etc.
Click to expand...
It doesn’t matter what the individual members of a denomination or church believe and practice. What matters is what the actual written teaching of the denomination or church is.

Yes, there are plenty of pro-abortion Catholics, but the fact remains that the Catholic Church utterly condemns abortion in all situations.
 
Roy5 said:
Perhaps I’m mistaken, but I believe the United Methodist statement in 2008 pulled back some an endorsement of a woman’s right to choose. I believe I heard that the more recent statement focused on the right of Methodists to disagree with one another on this issue. This is the general approach of Methodists and other mainline Protestants on a number of issues - ‘think and let think’ as Wesley put it.
Code: 
It will be interesting to see what the next General Conference (2012) of the United Methodist Church will say. Gov. Perry is a United Methodist. I have found that Methodism is very inclusive. George Wallace was a Methodist, but so was George McGovern. It seems to me that Catholicism is similiarly diverse. Many Catholic politicians are 'pro-choice', perhaps the majority of Catholic leaders like Pelosi, Leahy, etc.
Click to expand...
There are also many who practise contraception, support gay marriage, and fail to even go to church on Sundays, even though the Church officially opposes contraception and gay marriage, and her members are obligated to attend Mass on all Sundays.
 
It seems to me that a major difference between Catholicism and mainline Protestantism is that Catholicism has set-in-stone positions on contraception, gay sex. priestly celibacy, women clergy, etc.
Code: 
In contrast mainline Protestantism provides an atmosphere in which differences of opinion on such issues are permitted and openly debated. For example, the large majority of mainline Protestants would find nothing wrong with contraception practiced by married couples. They would be split on such questions as gay marriage. They would have no problem with marriage of clergy, of course, and rarely with women clergy. Dissent is tolerated within mainline Protestantism. It is not unusual for a good member, who may like his pastor personally, to express his strong disagreement with a sermon after a church service.  

 In this sense, one could argue that Protestantism is easier because it allows such latitude when it comes to theological, liturgical and social issues. Or, you could turn that around, and argue that Protestantism is more difficult because you are required to work out your own attitudes on many such matters. There is no central authority to set infallible teachings.

Evangelical Protestantism is another kettle of fish. Like Catholicism, it is inclined to take hard-and-fast positions. Most evangelical Protestant denominations would strongly denounce gay sex and abortion, for example. In fact, many of them would be more conservative than Catholicism on a variety of social issues, which might include gambling and alcohol. They used to joke that among devout Southern Baptists it was considered polite not to recognize one another when in liquor stores! Ditto when they run into one another Southern Baptist at a casino!

 Then,of course, you have certain Protestant groups - like the Mennonites and the Society of Friends (Quakers) - who might take a firm, absolutist position against war. By the way, I am rather sympathetic to both of these groups since they try to reflect the Sermon on the Mount which most Christians praise but then ignore (e. g., "Love your enemies...").

 God bless everybody - no exceptions.
 
Roy5 said:
PiousTemplar
Code: 
I would suggest that when a married couple follows the church-approved, calendar-regulated sexual relationship they definitely are using a method of birth control. Why else are they following this system except to control the number of children they have? Isn't that what birth control is all about? Whether the method is 'natural' or with artificial help the goal is the same - to avoid pregnancy! 

It is rather like church-approved divorce, better-known as annulment. No, you can't get a 'divorce' and remarry unless you get church approval. The result is the same: the dissolution of marriage. And, by the way, Jesus never said that divorce was the unforgiveable sin. I generally oppose divorce also, but certain circumstances justify it without a church judgment that the marriage was flawed to begin with. Maybe the marriage to begin was fine, but altered circumstances along the way turns happiness into a nightmare. 

 Somtimes I find myself - unjustly, true - comparing this church effort to regulate our personal lives as somewhar akin to shariah law. That's what Muslims (as well as Orthodox Jews) have. The religious establishment is in control. I personally prefer the sytem which our founders set in place. On the other hand, if Muslims, Orthodox Jews and traditionalist Catholics approve of religion- controlled lives, fine. Just don't try to impose one's religious ideas on others, as happens in many Muslim countries, in Israel, and often (years ago) in Catholic nations. I much prefer the US system of democracy.  

 God bless.
Amen. It’s fine if the groups you mentioned, Roy, approve of religion-controlled lives. But sometimes I read and have participated in threads on CAF for instance where Catholics tell other Catholics what to wear to Mass to be attired more appropriately or formally, as just an example. So not to only single out Catholics on CAF, I have experienced the same with one PCUSA pastor who went so far to tell me men dress in suits and ties at his particular church. And I always end up thinking to myself in these cases, the burden of following and revering Christ on the inside just got a little heavier on the outside. It’s scary to me because it reminds me of for instance the SDA faith discouraging women from even wearing a bit of make-up. But if some people want that much control of their lives, that’s fine.
Click to expand...
 
Roy5 said:
Then,of course, you have certain Protestant groups - like the Mennonites and the Society of Friends (Quakers) - who might take a firm, absolutist position against war. By the way, I am rather sympathetic to both of these groups since they try to reflect the Sermon on the Mount which most Christians praise but then ignore (e. g., “Love your enemies…”).
Code: 
 God bless everybody - no exceptions.
Click to expand...
And blessed are the peacemakers
 
CompSciGuy said:
Most websites that have the word “illuminati” in it instantly lose all credibility in my mind. Probably 98% of all wild conspiracy theories that fly from the mouths of drugged up hippies, paranoid schizophrenics, and UFO enthusiasts are in one way or another linked to the illuminati.
Click to expand...
My message to the person who wants to leave the Catholic church to the Assemblies of God church because of the influence of the illuminati is…“please don’t”. You will find that us Assemblies of God are just as infiltrated with the illuminati as the Catholics are.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top