Is it good to hate this life?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Robert_Sock
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
ready said:
Robert,

God created the world good. What is evil is the sin and corruption of the world - not the world (which is good).
Click to expand...
This is what I keep trying to stress. Also if you read Romans it talks of how we want to leave this earth for the glory of God. This is what we strive for. This earth was made a beautiful planet. Humans have corrupted its beauty. We, also by sinful nature, corrupt life itself. We are all striving towards heaven, which is not of this life. This life is not an act, it is a way of existence. We have corrupted it. We can try and change the way things are and do so many times. Still as a whole we do not succeeed because this is satan’s world.

This is not a “dark” view, it is reality. If everyone did as God commmanded it would be different. We are given free will and that is why the devil is so successful.

Just some thoughts…

God Bless and have an inspiring evening!

May we all have the opportunity of drowning in God’s Mercy!
 
mikeledes said:
Amen! Jesus also said the following:

Luke 12:46

**26"If anyone comes to Me, and does not HATE **his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

🤷 Is Jesus telling us to break one of the 10 commandments by hating our father and mother? Absolutely not. We must understand that the word “hate” is not being used the same way we commonly use hate. It is often used to mean to love less. In the above case, Christ is asking us to make God first in our lives, He must be our first love. That means that all other loves must “play second fiddle” to that love for God, including the love we have for our parents. To hate our lives means to have God - not ourselves - as the Lord of our hearts and center of our existence.

God Bless,
Michael
Click to expand...
hating your mother and father is not breaking a commandment cause the commandment reads to honor your mother and father
 
Alas, maybe not.

If nothing else, this thread serves as a witness to the dangers of Biblical self-interpretation.

Reminds me of that radio preacher who says Christ and St. Michael the Archangel are one and the same, and who ‘knows’ the exact day the world is going to end. :rolleyes:
 
How about meditations like this one? This meditation is congruent with John 12:25.

. . . Many weak and foolish people, say, “See what a good life that man enjoys! He is so rich, so great, so powerful, so distinguished!” But raise your eyes to the riches of Heaven, and you will see that all the riches of this world are as nothing. All are uncertain and even burdensome, for they are never enjoyed without some anxiety or fear. The happiness of man does not consist in abundance of this world’s goods, for a modest share is sufficient for him. The more spiritual a man desires to become, the more bitter does this present life grow for him, for he sees and realizes more clearly the defects and corruptions of human nature. For to eat and drink, to wake and sleep, to rest and labour, and to be subject to all the necessities of nature is a great trouble and affliction to the devout man, who would rather be released and set free from all sin.

The inner life of man is greatly hindered in this life by the needs of the body. Thus, the Prophet devoutly prays that he may be set free from them, saying, “Lord, deliver me from my necessities!” Woe to those who refuse to recognize their own wretchedness, and doubly woe to those who love this miserable and corruptible life! For some cling so closely to it, that although by working or begging they can hardly win the bare necessities, they would yet be willing to live here for ever if it were possible, caring nothing for the Kingdom of God.

How crazy and lacking in faith are such people, who are so deeply engrossed in earthly affairs that they care for nothing but material things! These unhappy wretches will at length know to their sorrow how vile and worthless were the things that they loved. But the Saints of God and all the devoted friends of Christ paid little heed to bodily pleasures, nor to prosperity in this life, for all their hopes and aims were directed towards those good things that are eternal. Their whole desire raised them upward to things eternal and invisible, so that the love of things visible could not drag them down. My brother, do not lose hope of progress in the spiritual life; you have still time and opportunity . . .
–The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter 22 Thomas à Kempis
 
Robert_Sock said:
How about meditations like this one? This meditation is congruent with John 12:25.

. . . Many weak and foolish people, say, “See what a good life that man enjoys! He is so rich, so great, so powerful, so distinguished!” But raise your eyes to the riches of Heaven, and you will see that all the riches of this world are as nothing. All are uncertain and even burdensome, for they are never enjoyed without some anxiety or fear. The happiness of man does not consist in abundance of this world’s goods, for a modest share is sufficient for him. The more spiritual a man desires to become, the more bitter does this present life grow for him, for he sees and realizes more clearly the defects and corruptions of human nature. For to eat and drink, to wake and sleep, to rest and labour, and to be subject to all the necessities of nature is a great trouble and affliction to the devout man, who would rather be released and set free from all sin.

The inner life of man is greatly hindered in this life by the needs of the body. Thus, the Prophet devoutly prays that he may be set free from them, saying, “Lord, deliver me from my necessities!” Woe to those who refuse to recognize their own wretchedness, and doubly woe to those who love this miserable and corruptible life! For some cling so closely to it, that although by working or begging they can hardly win the bare necessities, they would yet be willing to live here for ever if it were possible, caring nothing for the Kingdom of God.

How crazy and lacking in faith are such people, who are so deeply engrossed in earthly affairs that they care for nothing but material things! These unhappy wretches will at length know to their sorrow how vile and worthless were the things that they loved. But the Saints of God and all the devoted friends of Christ paid little heed to bodily pleasures, nor to prosperity in this life, for all their hopes and aims were directed towards those good things that are eternal. Their whole desire raised them upward to things eternal and invisible, so that the love of things visible could not drag them down. My brother, do not lose hope of progress in the spiritual life; you have still time and opportunity . . .
–The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter 22 Thomas à Kempis
Click to expand...
St Faustina felt the same way. She longed to kleave this earth as she became more united to God. She also said that life was dull and monotonous compared to living with God. She did not want to be here any longer than she had to. Jesus told her 4 years before she died that she would only have a little time left on this earth. He told her also that she had to finish His work before she died. Her work was the Divine mercy Image and the propogation of the devotion. While it was not completely set in place when she died, she accomplished what Jesus wanted.

I think of beauty here on this planet, places I have been. Then I think of how beautiful Heaven must be. We can not imagine the beauty. Anything on this earth that is beautiful has an even more glorious counterpart in Heaven. Places, people, things, whatever you can think of. The only way to Heaven is to give your life to Jesus and do His Will. There is no big secret in the Scripture. It is as it says. God is the only thing we should center our life around and the rest of our existence here on earth will fall in place accorrding to His Plan.

If you love God, first and foremost, how can you not love life. Only it has to be through Him.

God Bless!
 
thevickinator16 said:
St Faustina felt the same way. She longed to kleave this earth as she became more united to God. She also said that life was dull and monotonous compared to living with God. She did not want to be here any longer than she had to. Jesus told her 4 years before she died that she would only have a little time left on this earth. He told her also that she had to finish His work before she died. Her work was the Divine mercy Image and the propogation of the devotion. While it was not completely set in place when she died, she accomplished what Jesus wanted.

I think of beauty here on this planet, places I have been. Then I think of how beautiful Heaven must be. We can not imagine the beauty. Anything on this earth that is beautiful has an even more glorious counterpart in Heaven. Places, people, things, whatever you can think of. The only way to Heaven is to give your life to Jesus and do His Will. There is no big secret in the Scripture. It is as it says. God is the only thing we should center our life around and the rest of our existence here on earth will fall in place accorrding to His Plan.

If you love God, first and foremost, how can you not love life. Only it has to be through Him.

God Bless!
Click to expand...
Thank you for saying this! 👍 St. Faustina is my favorite saint (not to mention my Confirmation saint). If it is God’s will that we stay here why should I hate it? We should love to do Christ’s will, no matter how uncomfortable it can be.
Also, Christ said to hate the sin, not the sinner. In other words, hate the sin, not the place where the sin resides. Need I say more?
🙂
 
MarysGirls said:
Thank you for saying this! 👍 St. Faustina is my favorite saint (not to mention my Confirmation saint). If it is God’s will that we stay here why should I hate it? We should love to do Christ’s will, no matter how uncomfortable it can be.
Also, Christ said to hate the sin, not the sinner. In other words, hate the sin, not the place where the sin resides. Need I say more?
🙂
Click to expand...
Souls become tainted with sin. None of us are so saintly that Satan cannot tempt us into some sort of sin. I say hate the corrupt and wretched world where Satan has free access to the ruin of souls.
*
Holy Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray; and do you, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who wander through the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.*
 
thevickinator16 said:
This is what I keep trying to stress. Also if you read Romans it talks of how we want to leave this earth for the glory of God. This is what we strive for. This earth was made a beautiful planet. Humans have corrupted its beauty. We, also by sinful nature, corrupt life itself. We are all striving towards heaven, which is not of this life. This life is not an act, it is a way of existence. We have corrupted it. We can try and change the way things are and do so many times. Still as a whole we do not succeeed because this is satan’s world.

This is not a “dark” view, it is reality. If everyone did as God commmanded it would be different. We are given free will and that is why the devil is so successful.

Just some thoughts…

God Bless and have an inspiring evening!

May we all have the opportunity of drowning in God’s Mercy!
Click to expand...
To thevickinator16 and Robert Sock,

Yes, thevickinator16, as long as we don’t value this world above God then there is no problem loving the good in it. The things of this world can bring us and others closer to the Kingdom if we use them properly. It is when we live as worldly folks living in sin when we are not being good stewards and are loving the world abusively, in the wrong way and loving its evil more than we love God. Hating the world means not loving the world as much as one loves God, as I understand things handed down to me. I pray Robert sees I am not arguing against him, as I sympathize with him suffering from aspergers, depression and anxiety which could make anybody hate one’s world. Compared to heaven this world is a big vale of tears, Robert, I agree. It is filled with so much pain and suffering. You are sensitive to this and know it is a reality. Just today in the book of Tobit we read about the holy woman who’s life became so unfairly bad she wants to end it - and would have, if not for the fact that she did not want to hurt her father.
 
ready said:
To thevickinator16 and Robert Sock,

Yes, thevickinator16, as long as we don’t value this world above God then there is no problem loving the good in it. The things of this world can bring us and others closer to the Kingdom if we use them properly. It is when we live as worldly folks living in sin when we are not being good stewards and are loving the world abusively, in the wrong way and loving its evil more than we love God. Hating the world means not loving the world as much as one loves God, as I understand things handed down to me. I pray Robert sees I am not arguing against him, as I sympathize with him suffering from aspergers, depression and anxiety which could make anybody hate one’s world. Compared to heaven this world is a big vale of tears, Robert, I agree. It is filled with so much pain and suffering. You are sensitive to this and know it is a reality. Just today in the book of Tobit we read about the holy woman who’s life became so unfairly bad she wants to end it - and would have, if not for the fact that she did not want to hurt her father.
Click to expand...
What’s your view on the evils of Satan within our world. Hating sin is not enough, one must also hate Satan, who prowls this world seeking the ruin of souls. I hate any world where Satan reigns.
 
Robert_Sock said:
How about meditations like this one? This meditation is congruent with John 12:25.

. . . Many weak and foolish people, say, “See what a good life that man enjoys! He is so rich, so great, so powerful, so distinguished!” But raise your eyes to the riches of Heaven, and you will see that all the riches of this world are as nothing. All are uncertain and even burdensome, for they are never enjoyed without some anxiety or fear. The happiness of man does not consist in abundance of this world’s goods, for a modest share is sufficient for him. The more spiritual a man desires to become, the more bitter does this present life grow for him, for he sees and realizes more clearly the defects and corruptions of human nature. For to eat and drink, to wake and sleep, to rest and labour, and to be subject to all the necessities of nature is a great trouble and affliction to the devout man, who would rather be released and set free from all sin.

The inner life of man is greatly hindered in this life by the needs of the body. Thus, the Prophet devoutly prays that he may be set free from them, saying, “Lord, deliver me from my necessities!” Woe to those who refuse to recognize their own wretchedness, and doubly woe to those who love this miserable and corruptible life! For some cling so closely to it, that although by working or begging they can hardly win the bare necessities, they would yet be willing to live here for ever if it were possible, caring nothing for the Kingdom of God.

How crazy and lacking in faith are such people, who are so deeply engrossed in earthly affairs that they care for nothing but material things! These unhappy wretches will at length know to their sorrow how vile and worthless were the things that they loved. But the Saints of God and all the devoted friends of Christ paid little heed to bodily pleasures, nor to prosperity in this life, for all their hopes and aims were directed towards those good things that are eternal. Their whole desire raised them upward to things eternal and invisible, so that the love of things visible could not drag them down. My brother, do not lose hope of progress in the spiritual life; you have still time and opportunity . . .
–The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter 22 Thomas à Kempis
Click to expand...
Yes, Robert, I understand you and you are right. I too would prefer to be out of this body and in heaven. But I am put in this world to know, love and serve God and to be happy with Him forever in heaven. So until God takes me to Him in heaven, I’ll just be a faithful steward serving Him and my neighbor as best as I can, using the goods of this life to win souls to and for the Kingdom…and I will never value this life above God or the next life to come, like you.
 
Jerry_Marino said:
hating your mother and father is not breaking a commandment cause the commandment reads to honor your mother and father
Click to expand...
I’ve heard it preached from the pulpit that hating one’s mother and father simply means to put them always after God…just like hating this life simply means never putting it above God.
 
Robert_Sock said:
What’s your view on the evils of Satan within our world. Hating sin is not enough, one must also hate Satan, who prowls this world seeking the ruin of souls. I hate any world where Satan reigns.
Click to expand...
But Jesus reigns in my heart and in His Church and gives me a great foretaste of heaven already in this life. Maybe God isn’t giving you consolations, Robert, but you most certainly will be rewarded for Your persevering in the faith with the life to come. God is just preparing you for great things in the life to come. I assure you, God understands you, even if others don’t understand what you are saying. I’m with you in your argument too. You and the others aer just arguing two separate things and the two arguments are getting jumbled. Be at peace!🙂
 
juliamajor said:
Your kidding -right?!🤷
Click to expand...
well their are lots of people whose parents were not good at all, very abusive physically, mentally and emotionally. the kids of such parents have it hard to love their parents but nonetheless they might find easier to honor them.

but the commandment is to honor your parents, seriously.
 
ready said:
I’ve heard it preached from the pulpit that hating one’s mother and father simply means to put them always after God…just like hating this life simply means never putting it above God.
Click to expand...
depends on the translation.
 
One of my favorite theologians is David Bentley Hart and he wrote an essay several years back on the disaster of the tsunami in southeast asia where he takes up some of the so-called “Christian” responses to the event.

It ends with this ringing endorsement of our faith:

"I do not believe we Christians are obliged — or even allowed — to look upon the devastation visited upon the coasts of the Indian Ocean and to console ourselves with vacuous cant about the mysterious course taken by God’s goodness in this world, or to assure others that some ultimate meaning or purpose resides in so much misery. Ours is, after all, a religion of salvation; our faith is in a God who has come to rescue His creation from the absurdity of sin and the emptiness of death, and so we are permitted to hate these things with a perfect hatred.

For while Christ takes the suffering of his creatures up into his own, it is not because he or they had need of suffering, but because he would not abandon his creatures to the grave. And while we know that the victory over evil and death has been won, we know also that it is a victory yet to come, and that creation therefore, as Paul says, groans in expectation of the glory that will one day be revealed. Until then, the world remains a place of struggle between light and darkness, truth and falsehood, life and death; and, in such a world, our portion is charity.

As for comfort, when we seek it, I can imagine none greater than the happy knowledge that when I see the death of a child I do not see the face of God, but the face of His enemy. It is not a faith that would necessarily satisfy Ivan Karamazov, but neither is it one that his arguments can defeat: for it has set us free from optimism, and taught us hope instead. We can rejoice that we are saved not through the immanent mechanisms of history and nature, but by grace; that God will not unite all of history’s many strands in one great synthesis, but will judge much of history false and damnable; that He will not simply reveal the sublime logic of fallen nature, but will strike off the fetters in which creation languishes; and that, rather than showing us how the tears of a small girl suffering in the dark were necessary for the building of the Kingdom, He will instead raise her up and wipe away all tears from her eyes — and there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying, nor any more pain, for the former things will have passed away, and He that sits upon the throne will say, ‘Behold, I make all things new.’"

Oddly enough the essay, which I felt was so postive and uplifting, served as a catalyst in the estrangement I suffered with a fellow member of my parish and someone who helped me in many ways to convert to Catholicism. Go figure. I’ve written about that in a piece called Failing Fellowship. Both the Hart essay and Failing Fellowship are listed under “Pages” on the site.

But in answer to your question: yes, we’re permitted to hate the absurdity of sin and other things in this life. But our portion in this world we find in charity and Matthew 25 – so never to hate this life itself: we pray for that, give us this day our daily bread…

DJ
 
Jerry_Marino said:
well their are lots of people whose parents were not good at all, very abusive physically, mentally and emotionally. the kids of such parents have it hard to love their parents but nonetheless they might find easier to honor them.

but the commandment is to honor your parents, seriously.
Click to expand...
So is Jesus telling us to hate our parents, particularly the ones who have been good parents? Christ teaches us to love our enemies. If we are to love our enemies, then how can we hate our parents?

God Bless,
Michael
 
You are correct.

No, Jesus is NOT telling us to** hate** our parents. Not in the current meaning of the term (as I have stated on this thread about a million times).

This is the danger of self-interpretation.

Reminds me of the radio preacher I sometimes hear. He claims Jesus and Saint Michael the Archangel are the same being, and that references to ‘morningstar’ proves aliens exist.

Common sense was also given to us by God. But not necessarily the scholarly and intense knowledge of Biblical history, terms, and translations.
 
Hello there!

I have finished reading Pope John Paul II’s Apostolic Letter–Salvific Doloris. The Christian meaning of Human Suffering.

It explains how we are here to suffer and to why. St Paul said: “In my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of His Body, that is, the Church.”

Pope John Paul II says’ “It can be said that man in a special fashion becomes the way for the Church when suffering enters his life. This happens, as we know, at different moments in life, it takes place in different ways, it assumes different dimensions; nevertheless, in whatever form, suffering seems to be, and is, almost inseparable from man’s earthly existence.”

Further, said is: “Man “perishs” when he loses “eternal life”. " The opposite of salvation is not, therfore, only temporal suffering, any kind of suffering, but definitive suffering: the loss of eternal life, rejected by God–damnation.”

Jesus conquered not only death but evil when he suffered for us. This is why we still have suffering. We are to complement Our Savior’s Cross.

I tie this in with the original verse through what I have said in earlier posts. This world was created by God. Man has not chosen to be good stewards of this planet. Evil is not just a far off concept, it is alive and in every aspect of our existence. If we choose to live this life celbrating the evils that exist we are damned. If we take on our sufferings and give them back to God and use them to do His Will, we are going the path of righteousness and salvation. We cannot serve two maters. There is no gray area here. If you love this life more than you love God, then you are damned. Simple and concise. If you do God’s Will in this life above all others things, then salvation is yours.

You cannot love this life to the point of interfernce with God. If you chose to worship materials things and break the commandments and virtues, do you think you will go to heaven?

If you spend your times worshipping God and fighting the injustices of this world I believe you have a much better chance at salvation. Jesus told us what we have to do to be a disiciple. He did not mince words nor should we. It is up to each of us to determine our relationship with God. No one but God knows us well enough to make that call. He gave us the guidelines and He knows the truths of each of our hearts.

God Bless!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top