Is it good to hate this life?

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Bruno,

Eat, drink and be merry if you must but please keep in mind the Word of the Lord as made explicit in John 12:25. Again, it’s good to experience heavenly love and joy while in this life, but this life, in and of itself, is miserable and corrupt with the lies and deceit of Satan. Take a close look around you and see all the evil! Hate the evil and partake of the heavenly love (including brotherly love) that comes to us through Jesus Christ.

God Bless

Evil has been with us since the Fall. After leaving Mass yesterday, I was so happy to see the sky (it’s still light out now!) and the trees and the beautiful houses with their welcoming windows.

What sort of evil do you see there? I see decent families and good industry.

At least this thread has me talking about the concept with friends and family.

 

[ready]

There’s a lot of good I experience while on earth that really lets me experience a foretaste of heaven (Mass, good companions, good music, a good poem, a good article, Catholic Answers Forums, etc…) All these things bring me closer to God, and thus, are serving as good things for me. But I do hate this life because there is no peace when it comes to trying to help so many people see where they are acting against God’s commands. I don’t want to be negligent and enable bad behavior in these people by acting as though everything were all right, yet I hesitate to gently correct with words these same people anymore now that I see that maybe just giving good example is what they would be open to and not offended by. Because there is lawlessness in peoples’ behaviors and these same people, it seems, are not open to asistance it makes life the place of trial that is…even though there is so much goodness. It’s sin and lawlessness in our own body members that make us act against the Spirit that makes life a trial and calls us to be masters too. In heaven there will only be accord and love and faithfulness, in this life there is division and sin. That’s enough for me to hate this life and live in it as just a preparation for the next as a pilgrim, loving the good in it, but hating this life just the same.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**“Ready”, would you tell your child, I had you; will bring you up, but it’s a life to be hated. Hate it, hate it, hate your life – it’s a pest. It’s dreadful and be happy when you’re dead, for then real life begins.

Or would you rather – as I did with my sons – tell them and show them how wonderful Gods creation is, how beautiful and harmonic everything God created is.
How wonderful it is to be loved by mom and dad and by God…

Do you really think you could explain God to a child, and that he is given this life by God, when you keep telling the child he is supposed to hate his life?

What do you think God will say to you then?!

**

 

[ready]

**“Ready”, would you tell your child, I had you; will bring you up, but it’s a life to be hated. Hate it, hate it, hate your life – it’s a pest. It’s dreadful and be happy when you’re dead, for then real life begins.

Or would you rather – as I did with my sons – tell them and show them how wonderful Gods creation is, how beautiful and harmonic everything God created is.
How wonderful it is to be loved by mom and dad and by God…

Do you really think you could explain God to a child, and that he is given this life by God, when you keep telling the child he is supposed to hate his life?

What do you think God will say to you then?!

**

You did well in telling your kids to love those good things about life like all of God’s good creation, Mom and Dad’s love, God’s love, etc. I don’t have any children, but I would want my kids to enjoy the good things God puts in their lives too. It would be good, though, for me to warn my kids that everthing in this life should serve to keep us close to God. It would be good for me to warn my kids that never should we choose in this life to separate ourselves from God or a life in heaven by coosing sinful things or making sinful choices. I’m sure you also tell your kids to watch out for sin, though. You sound like a good parent, but I do think it’s good to tell our kids that dessert comes when we are in heaven…whether our heaven begins now through a faithful ife, or in the afterlife when our problems all cease. You probably already do this in your own way.

 

[ready]

You did well in telling your kids to love those good things about life like all of God’s good creation, Mom and Dad’s love, God’s love, etc. I don’t have any children, but I would want my kids to enjoy the good things God puts in their lives too. It would be good, though, for me to warn my kids that everthing in this life should serve to keep us close to God. It would be good for me to warn my kids that never should we choose in this life to separate ourselves from God or a life in heaven by coosing sinful things or making sinful choices. I’m sure you also tell your kids to watch out for sin, though. You sound like a good parent, but I do think it’s good to tell our kids that dessert comes when we are in heaven…whether our heaven begins now through a faithful ife, or in the afterlife when our problems all cease. You probably already do this in your own way.

But our real dessert comes in the next life, and this should be stressed to our children. When they grow older and witness egregious injustices, poverty and hatred, they will be better able to cope and do something for God knowing that “it isn’t all about this life” and this life isn’t the least bit fair apart from the next. The next life in all respects is the only life that is all fair. This life is a life of* trial* and as the word suggests, it’s not all eating, drinking and being merry. If we do just that we flunk our trial on earth, as we should be our brothers keepers and guardians of the faith. To do so (and to witness to our faith) makes life something I easily hate because the world hates me for doing so and I feel it. But Jesus tells us the world hated Him first, so I understand.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**As we all know, many Children lost as soon as left home, their religion.
It’s hard, but we have to emphasise that too often this is due to wrong religious upbringing.

My children are across 40 so I’m off explaining things to them – namely as one of them hopefully is in Gods kingdom.

But we all know youngsters or adults, who had been brought up in rigorous Christian teaching – but who later, in an act of protest, let all religiosity behind?! Some even became Atheists.

Professor Erwin Ringel taught in Vienna; he died in 1994, wrote several books about “why suicide and how to prevent suicide”, and also at least two books about religious deprivation through wrong religious parenting.

Conclusion: We must be very, very careful about statements like: “hate life and the world” or “real dessert comes in the next life, and this should be stressed to our children.”

It’s simply wrong to speak such! - and too often such upbringing results in desaster and even suicide.
I NEVER said so to my sons!
Neither would I think so myself.

**

 

[ready]

**As we all know, many Children lost as soon as left home, their religion.
It’s hard, but we have to emphasise that too often this is due to wrong religious upbringing.

My children are across 40 so I’m off explaining things to them – namely as one of them hopefully is in Gods kingdom.

But we all know youngsters or adults, who had been brought up in rigorous Christian teaching – but who later, in an act of protest, let all religiosity behind?! Some even became Atheists.

Professor Erwin Ringel taught in Vienna; he died in 1994, wrote several books about “why suicide and how to prevent suicide”, and also at least two books about religious deprivation through wrong religious parenting.

Conclusion: We must be very, very careful about statements like: “hate life and the world” or “real dessert comes in the next life, and this should be stressed to our children.”

It’s simply wrong to speak such! - and too often such upbringing results in desaster and even suicide.
I NEVER said so to my sons!
Neither would I think so myself.

**

Jesus Himself tells us that he who hates this life will keep it unto eternal life, not me, so I will defend the idea of hating this life - as it comes from our Lord’s words themselves, not mine. And the Church teaches that our consummation comes in the next life. It is right to look to next life for our ultimate joy - as this is congruent with sound Church teaching. The only people who are probably truly able to love this life are the people who don’t have to focus on all the injustice, cruelty and crimes against the poor and against God Himself, like children and people who’s lives are such that they are unaware of the crimes and injustices in and of humanity (the insane). But even children and the insane have their problems in this life, enough for them to look to the next life for their consummation of joy and happiness.

From personal experience I know that suicide attempts can be the result of children **not knowing **that our real dessert comes when we get to heaven. These children don’t find a heaven on earth and know not enough to hold out and bear their grief for life eternal. Nobody tells them that this life is a life of exile and sorrow and that the faithful will be rewarded in the next life for patiently bearing their sorrows.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

ready:

Jesus Himself tells us that he who hates this life will keep it unto eternal life

And how the church teaches this to be understood, was said here before, so let’s not repeat it all anew.

ready:

I know that suicide attempts can be the result of children not knowing that our real dessert comes when we get to heaven

Suicide reasons are manifold. They even occurred out of the curiosity, what heaven is like. Thousands of other reasons too. Most though; futility of life. Hate of life!

ready:

These children don’t find a heaven on earth and know not enough to hold out and bear their grief for life eternal.

Why on earth should a child “hold out” instead of being just happy and enjoy life?! Poor children who are discouraged to.

ready:

Nobody tells them that this life is a life of exile and sorrow and that the faithful will be rewarded in the next life for patiently bearing their sorrows.

Why should we tell them such misery. Only depressives think so. I never gave my kids such depressing news! Parents rightly want their kids to be happy, and not depressive children. Just imagine a Christendom with all depressive people, horrifying idea. Christianity would be swept away at once – it even wouldn’t be Christianity, for God called us to be happy - Ps 32,11:
Be glad in the LORD and rejoice, you just; exult, all you upright of heart.

If we bring up children by telling them that this life is a life of exile and sorrow, they will not have the strength to survive and persist. Not to speak about bringing up children.
I showed our children the beauty and happiness and joy of life. How else would we make a child strong enough to live a good life – plus pass this over to their kids?!

Instead I clearly told them, that God is with them, God created them, God loves them and God is with them – always, - if they love God as He loves them. Then they never are alone.

This too is a reason to find joy in life and not hate life.

Don’t answer spontaneously without thinking about the joy of life THAT COMES AND IS BROUGHT TO US BY GOD HIMSELF
**

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Again people: we are not sola scriptura, at least if we are Catholic. Interpreting scripture on one’s own isn’t something the Church encourages.

Do you believe Christ had siblings? It says he and his ‘brothers’ many times in the Bible also.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

Do you believe Christ had siblings? It says he and his ‘brothers’ many times in the Bible also.

Oh no! Not this again!
NO !!!
Jesus had no brothers - no sisters!

Reasons had been widely disgussed here.

In Jesus days all you loved, where brothers and sisters - all widely related to your clan also where brothers and sisters
and all who believe in God, Jesus too calles His brothers and sisters.

But this question anyhow is far off topic here.

 

[twb1621]

It is not good to hate this life at all. Some people hate it for the difficulties we experience, others more so at times of loss, and many there again as a result of one form or another of depression. I can’t help but believe that to hate this life in general would most likely be brought on through depression but what the cause of the depression is is a matter as individual as the person who experiences it.
Regardless of the reasons, a person who is not in a sincere relationship with God would be the most susceptible to hate this life IMO. Hating the sin of this world, yes, we certainly should. But lets think about Genesis. God created all life and found it to be good, very good. AND HE BLESSED THEM.

The world itself has been created in its beauty, sustenance and life for our welfare. Man chose sin and the results led to all that we find as difficult, sorrowful or in any way displeasing. Once we have received that point in our life where we become open to the acceptance of God, as we learn who He is and what He has done for us in His love, I believe it is then that we can grow in the appreciation of His creations and gifts. These things we have been given for our time in this life but cannot be appreciated to there fullest without that relationship with the Creator. Even the most depressed stand to gain awareness of the Beauty we have been gifted once that relationship is sincerely sought after. This life should never hold a significance greater than that of our enternal life however.

 

[twb1621]

Oh no! Not this again!
NO !!!
Jesus had no brothers - no sisters!

Reasons had been widely disgussed here.

In Jesus days all you loved, where brothers and sisters - all widely related to your clan also where brothers and sisters
and all who believe in God, Jesus too calles His brothers and sisters.

But this question anyhow is far off topic here.

Hey Bruno, its ok…. I think sailor was just referring to how people in general are not to interpret the Bible independently as it can be misunderstood and he gave that as an example…

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

oh - sorry - I didn’t say a thing

 

[Robert_Sock]

John 12:25 (New International Version)

“The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.”

The Golden Key to Heaven
by Saint Anthony Mary Claret

The death of the just: Death will reach everyone, the good and the bad; but the destiny of each one is quite different. The just man sees himself in this valley of tears as a prisoner, serving a very hard term. He considers himself a slave in this world, suffering an extremely distressing servitude. He regards himself a sailor caught in a horrible storm. And as death means an end of his confinement, an end of his slavery, and is the port of his salvation, he ceases not to cry with David, “Woe is me that my sojourning is prolonged!. . .” (Ps. 119:5). He ceases not to ask with the Apostle, “. . . Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” (Rom. 7:24)

Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy!
Our life, our sweetness, and our hope!
To thee do we cry, poor banished
children of Eve, to thee do we send
up our sighs, mourning and weeping
in this valley, of tears.
Turn, then, most gracious advocate,
thine eyes of mercy toward us; and
after this our exile show unto us the
blessed fruit of thy womb Jesus;
O clement, O loving, O sweet virgin Mary.

Pray for us, O holy Mother of God

That we may be made worthy of the
promises of Christ.

. . . Many weak and foolish people, say, “See what a good life that man enjoys! He is so rich, so great, so powerful, so distinguished!” But raise your eyes to the riches of Heaven, and you will see that all the riches of this world are as nothing. All are uncertain and even burdensome, for they are never enjoyed without some anxiety or fear. The happiness of man does not consist in abundance of this world’s goods, for a modest share is sufficient for him. The more spiritual a man desires to become, the more bitter does this present life grow for him, for he sees and realizes more clearly the defects and corruptions of human nature. For to eat and drink, to wake and sleep, to rest and labour, and to be subject to all the necessities of nature is a great trouble and affliction to the devout man, who would rather be released and set free from all sin.

The inner life of man is greatly hindered in this life by the needs of the body. Thus, the Prophet devoutly prays that he may be set free from them, saying, “Lord, deliver me from my necessities!” Woe to those who refuse to recognize their own wretchedness, and doubly woe to those who love this miserable and corruptible life! For some cling so closely to it, that although by working or begging they can hardly win the bare necessities, they would yet be willing to live here for ever if it were possible, caring nothing for the Kingdom of God. 

How crazy and lacking in faith are such people, who are so deeply engrossed in earthly affairs that they care for nothing but material things! These unhappy wretches will at length know to their sorrow how vile and worthless were the things that they loved. But the Saints of God and all the devoted friends of Christ paid little heed to bodily pleasures, nor to prosperity in this life, for all their hopes and aims were directed towards those good things that are eternal. Their whole desire raised them upward to things eternal and invisible, so that the love of things visible could not drag them down. My brother, do not lose hope of progress in the spiritual life; you have still time and opportunity . . .

–The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter 22 Thomas A Kempis

I agree that John 12:25 should not be interpreted on its own. That is why I provided the above quotes from the saints and prayer.

For those arguing their points here, please do so bases on the entire set of quotes as a whole, from which I make my point.

I clutch onto the above quotes with all my might! I truly believe them and take them to heart! They form the base of my belief system!

God Bless

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**as Sailor Kenshin made clear above, which silly me misunderstood at first - blinking foreigner -
we are not sola scriptura

You Robert Sock, stick to the word and dont care too much on the teaching of the Church.
As you admit: “I clutch onto the above quotes with all my might!” - but it’s your interpretation of scriptura."

Never mind. I hope you didn’t pass this terribly pessimistic and depressive sight of Christianity on to your children - which goes the same for “ready”.
I however resign here and won’t look further into this nongood thread.

Yours
Bruno
cheers

**

 

[Robert_Sock]

as Sailor Kenshin made clear above, which silly me misunderstood at first - blinking foreigner -
we are not sola scriptura

You Robert Sock, stick to the word and dont care too much on the teaching of the Church.
As you admit: “I clutch onto the above quotes with all my might!” - but it’s your interpretation of scriptura."

Never mind. I hope you didn’t pass this terribly pessimistic and depressive sight of Christianity on to your children - which goes the same for “ready”.
I however resign here and won’t look further into this nongood thread.

Yours
Bruno
cheers

Bruno,

I believe you are with the majority here, but I believe that certain saints (like Saint Anthony Mary Claret) are more likely to take my perspective. It’s amazing how basically good Catholics can disagree so sharply! Much of what we are disagreeing about comes down to very basic beliefs. These are the core beliefs upon which other beliefs are built. They don’t change easily.

God Bless

 

[ready]

I disagree with posts that accuse me of going by “sola scriptura.” I most certainly don’t. If I had a child and told her that God loved her very, very much but did not want her to live for this life but for the next - that would be right on target with the teaching of Christ and his Magisterium. I don’t care what anyone says.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

You don’t care what ANYONE says?

 

[ready]

You don’t care what ANYONE says?

You know what I mean.

 

[twb1621]

I agree that John 12:25 should not be interpreted on its own. That is why I provided the above quotes from the saints and prayer.

For those arguing their points here, please do so bases on the entire set of quotes as a whole, from which I make my point.

I clutch onto the above quotes with all my might! I truly believe them and take them to heart! They form the base of my belief system!

God Bless

To Robert and Ready

there are two different perspectives to be considered here that will probably clarify both sides of appreciating “life” and hating “life”. Living this life for the next is correct But that doesn’t conflict with an appreciation for what God has given us through His works here. The life we are to hate is the life of sinfulness usually considered the worldly ways but it is also correct to appreciate all that we have been given through God’s creation while we are in this life. Sometimes it is hard to see both and certainly we desire to be with God above all else, but man should always respect and appreciate all of creation and there is much to appreciate and be in awe over while in this life. Those who reside in the urban areas that see only concrete and glass need to take the time to stop and experience what man cannot create. I know that is not easy either but it is worth learning how to do. It’s a matter of rearranging the priorities many of us were trained to follow to include awareness of God’s creation. Just as we should hate the sin but love the sinner, so too should we hate the sinful life but appreciate the life God gives us within His creation.