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Robert_Sock
Guest
Your assumptions are far fetched and unwarranted.
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juliamajor
Guest
Really?
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Robert_Sock
Guest
Genesis 3:16-20. The corruption of Satan.
16 To the woman also he said: I will multiply thy sorrows, and thy conceptions: in sorrow shalt thou bring forth children, and thou shalt be under thy husband’s power, and he shall have dominion over thee. 17 And to Adam he said: Because thou hast hearkened to the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldst not eat, cursed is the earth in thy work; with labour and toil shalt thou eat thereof all the days of thy life. 18 Thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herbs of the earth. 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return to the earth, out of which thou wast taken: for dust thou art, and into dust thou shalt return. 20 And Adam called the name of his wife Eve: because she was the mother of all the living.
16 To the woman also he said: I will multiply thy sorrows, and thy conceptions: in sorrow shalt thou bring forth children, and thou shalt be under thy husband’s power, and he shall have dominion over thee. 17 And to Adam he said: Because thou hast hearkened to the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldst not eat, cursed is the earth in thy work; with labour and toil shalt thou eat thereof all the days of thy life. 18 Thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herbs of the earth. 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return to the earth, out of which thou wast taken: for dust thou art, and into dust thou shalt return. 20 And Adam called the name of his wife Eve: because she was the mother of all the living.
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Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
If we are to ‘hate’ life—why do we try to stop abortions and euthanasia?
Can you answer that?
Can you answer that?
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ready
Guest
Robert doesn’t hate life, he hates his life. God has given him a relationship to the world that allows Robert to be so very sensitive to corruption and evil in a way that actually makes him look to the other world (the next life) with such earnest yearning, with each and every single one of his thoughts. He utterly rejects this life entirely because of sin in it - maybe not. He’s also probably very sensitive to the goodness of God - but he probably doesn’t experience much of the goodness outside of personal prayer and the Mass. He’s given gall to drink but will receive the fresh wine of Heaven when he gets to Heaven. Robert, I hope you enjoy the bread and wine at the Mass like it was Heaven being given to you - because that is what it is. I imagine you do. Otherwise you’d be missing out on the fruits of our redemption - the joy of Heaven on earth.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
That was really nice of you to drop by and try to set things right.Robert doesn’t hate life, he hates his life. God has given him a relationship to the world that allows Robert to be so very sensitive to corruption and evil in a way that actually makes him look to the other world (the next life) with such earnest yearning, with each and every single one of his thoughts. He utterly rejects this life entirely because of sin in it - maybe not. He’s also probably very sensitive to the goodness of God - but he probably doesn’t experience much of the goodness outside of personal prayer and the Mass. He’s given gall to drink but will receive the fresh wine of Heaven when he gets to Heaven. Robert, I hope you enjoy the bread and wine at the Mass like it was Heaven being given to you - because that is what it is. I imagine you do. Otherwise you’d be missing out on the fruits of our redemption - the joy of Heaven on earth.
Yes, I hate my life here on Earth. If major depression and generalized anxiety disorder was not enough, I suffer from Asperger’s syndrome, which has left me alienated from much of the outside world.
I look forward to the Holy Rosary and Daily Mass on EWTN every day, and I always look forward to Sunday Mass.
And, yes, I ALWAYS like to meditate on the Hereafter!
Thanks again,
Bob
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ready
Guest
Who wouldn’t hate one’s life suffering from major depression, generalised anxiety disorder AND Asperger’s syndrome - leaving you feeling so alienated. I think we all understand. Nobody wants to suffer like that. But find joy in the uniting of your sufferings to the sufferings of Christ an offering it up for the intention of your salvation and the salvation of souls, as you’ll be gaining much merit for yourself and for souls. The Kingdom of God depends on you and all of us to suffer for our Lord and the Kingdom in order that souls may be converted. Your sufferings united to God and offered up will convert hearts of men that are on the opposite side of the world…and maybe in your own neighborhood and parish! And remember, the more we resemble Christ in His passion and sufferings in this life, the more we will resemble Him in glory in the next. So rejoice!
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thevickinator16
Guest
Hello everybody!
I have read this thread through and it seems that the topic got lost a bit.
I thought I’d share my thoughts on this subject. I believe that Jesus was referring to the attachments of this earth also. It is stated and Dear Lord, I can’t find it at the moment, that to love your family more than God can send you from Eternal Reward. I found this once. If you love anything or anyone on this miserable earth more than God, you are losing your chance at heaven. You cann’t love anything with the love you should have for God only. I think this applies in this verse.
If we run around and gather material things and do not take care of those in need, we are definitely wrong. If we spend our lives in front of the TV, or movies or computers and stay away from helping others, we are wrong. If we let life interfere with our prayers and worship due to God, we are wrong. If we let the everyday grind of suffering bring us to despair, we are wrong. All of this is self-serving, as it is not glorifying God.
Those are just some examples off the top of my head.
At the same time God created this earth for us. He intended us to be stewards of this earth (aren’t we doing a good job?). He gave us stewardship over everything on this earth. He created it so it cannot be anything but a labor of love from Him. He made us in His own Likeness, so I don’t see any hating there. “Love the sinner, hate the sin” is the motto I go by.
I can’t wait to die. I am not obsessing over it, it is just my ferverent desire. I want to be with God. Since it is not my call, I will live in this world and do the best I can through good works, spreading the Good News, changing what I can, not despairing over what I can’t and to praise God unceasingly for what I do have.
God Bless!
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Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
All this I-can’t-wait-to-die stuff strikes a wrong note. It is given only to God to decide that moment.
There are people with dreadful lives, or so it would seem to the average man: those with horrible handicaps or who have suffered abuse or illness or whatever, who love their lives with a sincere gratitude and yet still love God.
‘Everyone bears a beautiful loneliness and fights as an angel.’
There are people with dreadful lives, or so it would seem to the average man: those with horrible handicaps or who have suffered abuse or illness or whatever, who love their lives with a sincere gratitude and yet still love God.
‘Everyone bears a beautiful loneliness and fights as an angel.’
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ready
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That’s a great post! I’m with you.
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juliamajor
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I agree with you with all my heart… Their are many people who can justify abortion ,euthanasia of the mentally ill(like in Netherlands) or those whose illnesses (though not fatal)cause misery, with thinking like that.
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Robert_Sock
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Along one’s religious journey, like the terminally ill and the elderly, surely one deserves to peek at the promises of Christ in the Hereafter. The belief in the Hereafter is the only fuel that keeps a certain domain of religious individuals going; it’s all I personally have to clutch on to. I’m willing to carry my heavy cross with the insight of Christ’s promises to those who persevere in the fight over the evils of this corrupt world.
Jesus is calling us to put Him above all else.
*John 12:25
“The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.” *
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Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
It may also be sinful to reject and hate the gift of life----and this thought was inspired by listening to today’s homily on EWTN.
Feed my sheep! That is what Christ told Peter… not, ‘Let them die as soon as possible.’
To say to impressionable others that we are to hate life is to mislead them. If you hate your own life, that is sad. But please don’t urge anyone down that same path with the thought that it is ‘all right.’
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thevickinator16
Guest
Hello! I don’t think that is the point being made here. God just wants to be first in every aspect of our lives. That means not to get to happy or comfortable in this world, as it can set you up for disaster spiritually. God is the CENTER of our lives and His Will should be all we care for. Not our own petty likes and dislikes.
As far as the dying goes… I stated I can’t wait to die. Not because I am sick or dying or anything else. I know my time is when He decides, I just look forward to being with Him and leaving all this world behind. This world is sad because God is not here with us. Not in the same sense as He is when you are in heaven.
Attachments to the things of this world is what I think Jesus is talking about and that is what I believe. Pray on it for enlightment and the answes we seek may come there. None of us have all the right answers that’s for sure.
Just some thoughts…
My computer is going to the shop for a couple of days, I will be back.
In the mean time…God Bless!
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Robert_Sock
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John 12:25
The man who loves his life will lose it . . .
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Sailor_Kenshin
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Having given my reasons, I’m done going in circles with you.
But you never responded to the question that if life is to be hated, why bother to save the unborn, elderly and infirm?
But you never responded to the question that if life is to be hated, why bother to save the unborn, elderly and infirm?
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Robert_Sock
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There is a strong force today protecting the unborn and the elderly; let it be! This is their calling in religious life; it’s a very vocal force within religions . But recognize that others are called to something different. The terminally ill, the elderly, those with psychological disability, and even Contemplative Monks, are examples of a different force in religion that lends itself to a focus on the Hereafter. The focus of these subcategories of religious people is seeing that this life is corrupted, beginning with the fall of Adam and Eve, and that their personal salvation is different from that of the pro life movement. We see the sin and corruption that truly exists in this world and we see that Jesus is calling us to put Him above all else.
We both need to do what is in our religious calling. Just because we are in different camps does not mean that we cannot love one another and hold each other in high esteem!
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juliamajor
Guest
Well SAILOR I am shipping out of this thread- I’m getting dizzy from going around in circles:shrug:
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Sailor_Kenshin
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To answer the original question:
Yes. It is wrong to hate this life, as we know both terms today, because such a viewpoint comes from self-interpretation of a difficult and challenging Biblical passage, which cannot be tackled without extensive knowledge of history, language, and theology.
Isn’t this culture life-hating enough to suit some people? Do we need to add Catholics to the list of those who become abortionists and homicide bombers?
Yes. It is wrong to hate this life, as we know both terms today, because such a viewpoint comes from self-interpretation of a difficult and challenging Biblical passage, which cannot be tackled without extensive knowledge of history, language, and theology.
Isn’t this culture life-hating enough to suit some people? Do we need to add Catholics to the list of those who become abortionists and homicide bombers?
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Robert_Sock
Guest
. . . Many weak and foolish people, say, “See what a good life that man enjoys! He is so rich, so great, so powerful, so distinguished!” But raise your eyes to the riches of Heaven, and you will see that all the riches of this world are as nothing. All are uncertain and even burdensome, for they are never enjoyed without some anxiety or fear. The happiness of man does not consist in abundance of this world’s goods, for a modest share is sufficient for him. The more spiritual a man desires to become, the more bitter does this present life grow for him, for he sees and realizes more clearly the defects and corruptions of human nature. For to eat and drink, to wake and sleep, to rest and labour, and to be subject to all the necessities of nature is a great trouble and affliction to the devout man, who would rather be released and set free from all sin.
The inner life of man is greatly hindered in this life by the needs of the body. Thus, the Prophet devoutly prays that he may be set free from them, saying, “Lord, deliver me from my necessities!” Woe to those who refuse to recognize their own wretchedness, and doubly woe to those who love this miserable and corruptible life! For some cling so closely to it, that although by working or begging they can hardly win the bare necessities, they would yet be willing to live here for ever if it were possible, caring nothing for the Kingdom of God.
How crazy and lacking in faith are such people, who are so deeply engrossed in earthly affairs that they care for nothing but material things! These unhappy wretches will at length know to their sorrow how vile and worthless were the things that they loved. But the Saints of God and all the devoted friends of Christ paid little heed to bodily pleasures, nor to prosperity in this life, for all their hopes and aims were directed towards those good things that are eternal. Their whole desire raised them upward to things eternal and invisible, so that the love of things visible could not drag them down. My brother, do not lose hope of progress in the spiritual life; you have still time and opportunity . . .
–The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter 22 Thomas à Kempis
The inner life of man is greatly hindered in this life by the needs of the body. Thus, the Prophet devoutly prays that he may be set free from them, saying, “Lord, deliver me from my necessities!” Woe to those who refuse to recognize their own wretchedness, and doubly woe to those who love this miserable and corruptible life! For some cling so closely to it, that although by working or begging they can hardly win the bare necessities, they would yet be willing to live here for ever if it were possible, caring nothing for the Kingdom of God.
How crazy and lacking in faith are such people, who are so deeply engrossed in earthly affairs that they care for nothing but material things! These unhappy wretches will at length know to their sorrow how vile and worthless were the things that they loved. But the Saints of God and all the devoted friends of Christ paid little heed to bodily pleasures, nor to prosperity in this life, for all their hopes and aims were directed towards those good things that are eternal. Their whole desire raised them upward to things eternal and invisible, so that the love of things visible could not drag them down. My brother, do not lose hope of progress in the spiritual life; you have still time and opportunity . . .
–The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter 22 Thomas à Kempis
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