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VonDerTann
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Harry Truman wasn’t a participant in that conversation.
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Hume
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Sure. It just nukes (see what I did there?) and idea that they weren’t working toward surrender.
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neophyte
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Yeah, when people start talking like that it’s a sure sign that their position is very poorly reasoned and they don’t know how to deal with folks pointing it out.
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neophyte
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By law there were no civilian noncombatants in Japan at the time, and the Japanese government made a point of broadcasting that to the entire world.
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Hume
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But isn’t it possible that all those women and children could have fought US forces too?
In a way, the kids at the schools in Hiroshima were enemy combatants too, right?
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Hume
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So if Donald Trump says the same about you then you’re a combatant?
You’re kidding, right? Please tell me you’re kidding.
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Victoria33
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I don’t know what the member means but I know my understanding is that the munitions factories were in that area; and pretty much integrated into the neighborhood in Hiroshima, it was not just a strike at civilians as maybe Tokyo or Dresden were.
Military Headquarters, something made it a military target per Hiroshima.
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JimG
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Every bomb run over Tokyo affected civilians.
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JimG
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It comes down to this. How many deaths in the Pacific theater should the allies have been willing to sustain while waiting for Japan to surrender? Time equals lives lost on both sides. A week? A month? Just keep waiting? The quicker the surrender the quicker it ends.
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PetraG
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What about the shock wave?
Doesn’t reach earth.
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GKMotley
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The Purple Hearts referenced were not merely produced for DOWNFALL. The interesting story is told by Giangreco in the oft mentioned HELL TO PAY, and may also be found in a very abbreviated form, in his contribution to HIROSHIMA IN HISTORY: THE MYTHS OF REVISIONISM, (ed. Robert Maddox).
Neither atomic bomb had a parachute attached. The degree of accuracy obtained, in our sample of two, was variable. Hiroshima was spectacularly accurate, attributable to the most obvious aiming point I ever saw, as Tibbets said, and the skills of Tom Ferebee. Nagasaki, which was a snake-bitten mission from the engine start, was far less accurate, for several reasons. Which, ironically, lowered the casualties by dropping it where the geographical features shielded more populated areas.
But overall, you are correct.
Neither atomic bomb had a parachute attached. The degree of accuracy obtained, in our sample of two, was variable. Hiroshima was spectacularly accurate, attributable to the most obvious aiming point I ever saw, as Tibbets said, and the skills of Tom Ferebee. Nagasaki, which was a snake-bitten mission from the engine start, was far less accurate, for several reasons. Which, ironically, lowered the casualties by dropping it where the geographical features shielded more populated areas.
But overall, you are correct.
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GKMotley
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Time is blood. Precisely.
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GKMotley
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As was Hiroshima, it was a military target. Primarily the industrial complexes, most prominently those of Mitsubishi, including the torpedo production facilities that were the origin of many of the torpedoes used at Pearl Harbor. Some Japanese, after the fact, were not unaware of the irony.
But while a military target, do keep in mind that it was not targeted for that reason. It was targeted to affect the minds of the hard-core members (the Anami factor) of the Saiko Senso Shido Kaigi, the only group able to surrender (though such a surrender would have to be rubber-stamped by the full cabinet, which it was).
And now I’m on the sidelines for 3 consecutive posts. And there is so much error above, to be corrected.
I’ll wait.
But while a military target, do keep in mind that it was not targeted for that reason. It was targeted to affect the minds of the hard-core members (the Anami factor) of the Saiko Senso Shido Kaigi, the only group able to surrender (though such a surrender would have to be rubber-stamped by the full cabinet, which it was).
And now I’m on the sidelines for 3 consecutive posts. And there is so much error above, to be corrected.
I’ll wait.
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neophyte
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In fact, much of the manufacturing capability in Japan was distributed within the houses themselves. Drill presses, lathes, casting furnaces, all sorts of basic manufacturing was done in the living rooms and yards of individual homes throughout the industrial cities.
And what I mean is exactly what I said: there were no civilian noncombatants in Japan at the time. Anyone who says otherwise quite simply does not understand the Japanese culture, laws and mindset we were dealing with, and anyone who laughs at the idea that a fifteen year old with an awl or a grandmother with a pitchfork isn’t a deadly opponent to a soldier also doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
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Victoria33
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If we had not bombed Hiroshima and per above, I read one person discussing famine, this could have happened because an option we were looking at would have been a naval blockade, we would have sought to not allow anything in the country and surely, would have continued bombing the country as well just not with the “big bombs”.
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Hume
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Agree whole-heartedly.
The tragic notion that those folks had to be nuked is wrapped in so much long standing ignorance and jingoism that’s it’s only defensible through bald speculation.
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PetraG
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Well, not if it is a 2 kt bomb. I’m talking about uses for a 450 kt bomb.
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Victoria33
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Japan was not surrendering. Not that I know of. Such a statement should have some sort of backup.
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Hume
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In addition, some documents concerning the convening of the war council to discuss that very thing survived the American occupation.
The Russians were making their way through the northern homelands. The war was over.
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