Is it moral to hunt animals?

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I agree, but when I’ve confronted christian hunters about it, they generally say something to the effect, “God put animals here for our use.” 😦

I get hunting for food of course, but when recreational hunters say they eat what they kill, it still sounds more like rationalizing something they know is wrong, since they don’t HAVE to hunt to eat.
as man has replaced the natural predators in the area people need to hunt. My brother and brother in law hunt. They use everything off the deer. Meat goes in the freezer. It’s organically grown and lean. They use the hides and antlers. And there hunting makes the roads safer and helps the farmers keep more of their crops.

Now a mountain lion could do the same thing except that he wouldn’t sit in a blind all day freezing his behind off. He’d help himself to you pets and fenced in livestock. So man has a moral duty to help control wildlife. Otherwise they would over populated and die of starvation.
 
I forgot to say that the Church has condemned certain hunting practices.
  1. People who spend too much time and energy on hunting, neglecting their other duties, or who mess up property while doing it.
  2. Monks who should have abandoned all the pleasures of the world going out and hunting for fun. (See #1.) This happened in medieval times, because going out and hunting was so popular as a pastime even if you didn’t catch anything. It also led to unnecessary expenditures on hunting fashions and horses instead of the poor.
  3. Priests have sometimes been forbidden to hunt, on the same grounds that they were forbidden to shed any kind of blood. But doctor priests kinda seem to have led to more lenient interpretation of that.
 
Animals do mourn their dead. This has been observed with lemurs, crows, ravens, deer, etc. Deer also do what they can to protect their young from predators such as wolves & others if possible. If you watch animal shows, there are many times where you can find a zebra, gnu (wildebeest), gazelle, topie, etc. trying to protect their young from predators if they can such as a gnu charging @ a cheetah to protect her calf. Zebras will fight hyenas if they can to protect their ponies or foals. Buffalos aggressively defend their young. After a female deer give birth, they’ll sometimes eat the umbilical cord so that predators can’t recognize their newly born fawn. Musk ox form circles around their young to protect them from wolves. Animals are much smarter-they do have feelings & there’s man’s best friend dog.
I agree. When one of my dogs died, his companion mourned, you could see it in her eyes. She was fine before that and was dead a month later. I have seen it in my animals, while they get upset when one dies but after awhile of sniffing around (one even tried to lift my dead dog up), they seem to accept the death and know the spirit/soul is gone.
 
Who only started living with man to get free meat! And who man only invited to the fireside to help in hunting.
There was an unspoken contract cavemen had with the tamer of the wolves, protect us, help us hunt and we will feed and shelter you. I think Man made a good bargain.
 
But is that why they do it? I have always understood they do it to get the bull’s fury aroused. Same with the guy who places the barbed sticks.

Now, I’m not a bullfight enthusiast. I have never seen one except on films. I have also read James Michener’s explanation of bullfighting. The following strikes us a strange. It would strike some as cruel. But it makes sense on its own terms.

The bulls are specially bred for aggressiveness. If done properly, the function of the horsemen and the guy who places the barbs is to arouse that aggressiveness. The whole purpose of the whole thing is to exemplify excellence…both that of the men and that of the bull. Death and suffering are simply part of that exemplification…both for the men and for the bull.

The matador’s early passes serve three purposes. First to assess the bull; particularly his best qualities. Does he show excellence in attacking from a distance, or perhaps from up close? Are his legs strong enough to sustain distance charges. Is his excellence perhaps more in the way he hooks at the matador? Perhaps in the way he raises his head at a pass. Is the bull brave or only reckless? The matador then decides which passes also exemplify his own best qualities. Is the matador good at close passes? Can he “wrap the bull around his own body” in a slow pass, to show his own best qualities as well as that of the bull? Finally, he actually trains the bull to do those things that best show the bull’s prowess; his most dramatic and attractive moves, as well as his own.

In the end, the matador risks death the closest he will come in the ring, probably. The most celebrated final pass is when the matador kills the bull “recebiendo” or “receiving”. The matador plants his feet and does not move them for the final charge. He has trained the bull by then to charge at his signal. At the last split second, the matador deceives the bull to pass his horns as close to the matador’s body as possible without impaling him, but to simultaneously impale himself on the matador’s sword, which goes right to the bull’s heart if done properly. Death is immediate, and any matador who does a sloppy job of any of it is dishonored and will not last long in the “profession”.

We can say it’s a primitive thing. It’s almost like the “aristeia” of the ancient Greeks…to fight well and gracefully and to die well. To demonstrate courage and excellence in a duel to the death. We see the remnants of Minoan paintings and murals and see those people and those bulls doing something very similar. We admire the excellence of the bull in those paintings; his musculature and grace, and the prowess of the gymnasts who take a charge full on and somehow grasp the horns and vault themselves over the back of the bull. Same thing. Nowadays, we have little girls spinning on vaulting horses at the risk of broken necks. And we admire it because we don’t see the deadliness in it. Those who watch bullfights do see it.

Primitive. But those Spanish people conquered a continent with a bravery and a fortitude from which most of us are so distant we do not see the least merit in it. Those people sustained a horrendous civil war and produced many martyres and heroes as well as villains. To this day, little Spanish boys go out and fight heifers of that fighting breed, risking life and limb just to do it. Few of them ever become matadors, just like few of our Little Leaguers ever become big league players. And yet, it’s potentially deadly, even with a near-grown heifer. It’s a different way of thinking. We do see a bit of it every year on TV when they run with the bulls at Pamplona. It’s crazy, we think. Pointless. Yet they do it. They do it to show what they call “pundonor”, which is equivalent to “honor”, and “gracia”, equivalent to “grace” or “excellence”.

We latter-day inheritors of Anglo-Saxon culture don’t think in that way, and we think of it as alien, remote, cruel. Except for circus performers (most of whom aren’t of our culture anyway) we don’t get into rings with deadly animals. We see cattle in a field, and we don’t realize or even think what excellent creatures they really can be; the prowess and deadliness all but an occasional rancher who makes a mistake never know anything about.

I’m not pushing bullfighting here. I am only encouraging others to at least try to understand it better, as I did after reading up on it.
Understandably, piercing it with lances will anger it but it definitely is to weaken the bull. I have read all of James Michener’s books so I must have read about that too.

Some ‘culture’ should never be supported and banned. It diminishes the person. Many Spaniards are aginst bullfighting. It is interesting that Pope Pius (must confirm which one) issued a Papal Bull against bullfighting saying that it catered to the baser instincts of men and that priests who attended bullfights would be excommunicated.
 
Understandably, piercing it with lances will anger it but it definitely is to weaken the bull…
Some ‘culture’ should never be supported and banned. It diminishes the person. Many Spaniards are aginst bullfighting. It is interesting that Pope Pius (must confirm which one) issued a Papal Bull against bullfighting …
Again as a vegetarian, I have no problem if bullfighting is abolished, but will let the Spaniards decide. They do make food from the bull killed. What I have to wonder is what is the background of bullfighters :confused: My guess is that most bullfighters come from rural backgrounds. Most people who hunt deer, quail, etc. probably have done so since their youths. Would I be right in saying that bullfighters & hunters do so because of upbringing :confused: But is it consistent to be against bull fighting but still eat beef :confused:
 
The CCC and every state Department of Fish and Game in the U.S. agree: It is wrong to cause animals to suffer needlessly.

The supposed gray area in this thread is the added, “…or die needlessly.”

Based on this, to be consistent, if you think legal hunting is wrong, then you must be a vegetarian. Butchered cattle and hunted deer die just as needlessly.

From the CCC 2418: “It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly.”
I am a vegetarian and I agree about being consistent. Some choose to ignore the fact that the meat in those hygienic packages come from animals killed for that purpose.Dogs and cats are so very close to us and it is easy to be angry at their being butchered for fur etc but other animals suffer too.
 
I agree, but when I’ve confronted christian hunters about it, they generally say something to the effect, “God put animals here for our use.” 😦

I get hunting for food of course, but when recreational hunters say they eat what they kill, it still sounds more like rationalizing something they know is wrong, since they don’t HAVE to hunt to eat.
That’s right, for our use. As in, use for food and clothing sort of thing, not just to shoot the thing and get our giggles. I mean, by that logic I could throw rocks at my cat becasue “God put animals here for our use”.

God also gave us our reproductive organs for our use, but that use comes with a set of guidelines.
 
So I am seeing that we ‘cull’ the heard because without our intervention the animals will starve to death? Where does God’s design come into that sort of theory? Do we not trust in God to provide for the animals himself? We, ‘man’ have to step in and solve the problem of animals starving because God isn’t feeding them?

Or rather are they starving because of man himself? Did God provide a way for nature to balance out it’s herds naturally and man interfere by unbalancing the very structure?

At some point we have to say, if we believe in God, then man doesn’t need to keep his hand on nature… or we have to acknowledge that the very fact that nature cannot feed it’s animals is because man has claimed all the land for his own. Either way, we are culling the heard because of something we ourselves have perpetuated.

Unless there is another explanation that I am missing?
I agree. It is Man who has upset the balance of nature and we should not forget animals have had to suffer consequences from the fall of Man.
 
Leviticus 1:1-9

1 Yahweh summoned Moses and, speaking to him from the Tent of Meeting, said,

2 'Speak to the Israelites; say to them, "When any of you brings an offering to Yahweh, he can offer an animal either from the herd or from the flock.

3 "If his offering is to be a burnt offering from the herd, he must offer an unblemished male; he will offer it at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting, to make it acceptable to Yahweh.

4 He must lay his hand on the victim’s head, and it will be accepted as effectual for his expiation.

5 He will then slaughter the bull before Yahweh, and the priests descended from Aaron will offer the blood. They will pour it all around the altar which stands at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting.

6 He will then skin the victim and quarter it.

7 The priests descended from Aaron will put a fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire.

8 The priests descended from Aaron will then arrange the quarters, the head and the fat on the wood on the fire on the altar.

9 He will wash the entrails and shins in water, and the priest will burn it all on the altar as a burnt offering, food burnt as a smell pleasing to Yahweh.

Sounds to me like God himself likes the smell of a good BBQ…

I also don’t see anything about how killing the animal is wrong in any way…
 
Actually the structure became unbalanced when man eliminated most of the natural predators of the deer - Wolves, puma and coyotes mainly. This was done because these predators did not distinguish between bambi the deer and bossy the cow…
And sometimes not from Little Red Riding Hood, either. Reading old accounts, it’s pretty plain that animal-on-man predation was not all uncommon before humans eliminated most of the predators that were capable of it, from most environments.

Wild hogs are also major deer-eaters. Deadly to humans as well.
 
Animals do mourn their dead. This has been observed with lemurs, crows, ravens, deer, etc. Deer also do what they can to protect their young from predators such as wolves & others if possible. If you watch animal shows, there are many times where you can find a zebra, gnu (wildebeest), gazelle, topie, etc. trying to protect their young from predators if they can such as a gnu charging @ a cheetah to protect her calf. Zebras will fight hyenas if they can to protect their ponies or foals. Buffalos aggressively defend their young. After a female deer give birth, they’ll sometimes eat the umbilical cord so that predators can’t recognize their newly born fawn. Musk ox form circles around their young to protect them from wolves. Animals are much smarter-they do have feelings & there’s man’s best friend dog.
Most animals will protect their young. Most will, upon realization that their offspring is definitely dead, go about life as if nothing at all had happened. I have seen that many, many times.

Never, ever, ever have I seen an animal do anything that even remotedly resembled human mourning.
 
I can’t believe anyone would even ask the question. Of course it is morally acceptable.
 
And sometimes not from Little Red Riding Hood, either. Reading old accounts, it’s pretty plain that animal-on-man predation was not all uncommon before humans eliminated most of the predators that were capable of it, from most environments.

Wild hogs are also major deer-eaters. Deadly to humans as well.
Amen brother…Wild Hogs are a growing problem.

Peace
James
 
Most animals will protect their young. …
Never, ever, ever have I seen an animal do anything that even remotedly resembled human mourning.
Elephants have been observed to pay homage to their dead-the skulls of dead elephants. Elephants are more familial as they’ve been observed to adopt orphan elephants.
Crows have also been seen to mourn. Also animals such as deer do feel sad if their young gets killed by a lion or any other predator. Just because they don’t have funerals or mourn the way people do that doesn’t change that they do feel sad when they lose a young. Zebras, deer, antelope (such as wildebeest (gnu)) will protect their young but not strangers. If a zebra’s pony or foal is attacked by hyenas, they’ll do what they can to try to save the pony. But if another zebra is attacked, they won’t interfere as it’s not their young.

1 theme that sometimes comes up is Hitler & vegetarianism. From 1931-45, Hitler’s diet was for the most part vegetarian & that @ various times he called himself a vegetarian & proselytized about it. Hitler for most of his life did eat meat like most Germans do. There are reports that Hitler ate squabs, ham, sasuages & caviar for most of his life, but that in the last 14 years of his life he became a vegetarian. Hitler had flatulence problems. 😊 Some had said that the image of Hitler as a vegetarian who loved dogs & children was propaganda used by Josef Goebbells & other Nazis to make Hitler look kind & gentle. Germany (later Austria after Anschluss) did pass animal welfare laws which were advanced for it’s time during the Nazi period-such as laws regarding humane hunting, protecting the eagle (Eagle perched on Swastika was national symbol) & the Germans were advanced when it came to veterinary science during the time of the Nazis. The wolf & the eagle were the 2 animals which were prominent in Nazi themes. There’s also the Wolf’s Lair, Eagle’s Nest & Seawolves was sometimes used when referring to the Nazi naval campaign.
 
I have given my other answer on this thread already.

But I wanted to note that I happened to see on the “Tigers and Lions Forum” this:

Q: “Is it moral to hunt man?”

A: “Depends entirely on taste.”
 
In Hinduism, the cow, buffalo & monkey are sacred. With monkeys, it goes back to Hanuman. Cows though weren’t always sacred. Beef @ 1 time was eaten early on but the main reason both the cow & buffalo are sacred is because they’re viewed as Gomata, the mother of the earth as I understand. Both the cows & buffalos help in plowing the land thus providing crops & giving milk. For this main reason, most Hindus believe it’s wrong to kill the mother of the earth. Buddhism which is related to Hinduism should have a taboo against beef, yet there are Buddhists who eat beef & in mostly Buddhist Thailand, beef is eaten. There’s debate whether Buddhism & Hinduism require vegetarianism but it definitely prefers vegetarianism. In Hinduism, hunting deer for food is found. In India, people have hunted ducks, game birds & wild goats for food. While pork is eaten in India, pork is regarded as a food for the poor as the pig is considered a dirty animal. The most popular meat eaten worldwide are goat & sheep (el cordero) followed by chicken (el pollo).

In earlier post, it was asked what is the background of hunters & bullfighters. My guess is that most are from rural places or places where hunting is a family tradition. My guess is that most bullfighters would be farmers. Hunters often will say incl. here that they eat their kills. With bullfighting, I understand the point that it’s not humane & have no problem if it’s abolished but also understand that the bullfighters eat their kills or give their kills to others for food. It must be said that many hunters keep dogs as pets & say that they love their dogs & cats & that the deer or other animals they hunt provide meat for their pets. My guess it that some bullfighters have dogs or cats as pets & use the same jusitification. Finally, France & some Latin American nations such as Mexico also have bullfighting. Spain @ times during the 18th & 19th Century did ban bullfighting but they didn’t last long. Canary Islands abolished bullfighting in 1991 & Catluna in 2010. Ecuador by voter ballot forbids killing bulls in bullfights. Cuba & Uruguay passed laws against bullfighting in 1901 & 1912. What I have to ask again is how many people who watch bullfights in Spain tourists vs. Spaniards :confused:
 
Elephants have been observed to pay homage to their dead-the skulls of dead elephants. Elephants are more familial as they’ve been observed to adopt orphan elephants.
Crows have also been seen to mourn. Also animals such as deer do feel sad if their young gets killed by a lion or any other predator. Just because they don’t have funerals or mourn the way people do that doesn’t change that they do feel sad when they lose a young. Zebras, deer, antelope (such as wildebeest (gnu)) will protect their young but not strangers. If a zebra’s pony or foal is attacked by hyenas, they’ll do what they can to try to save the pony. But if another zebra is attacked, they won’t interfere as it’s not their young.

1 theme that sometimes comes up is Hitler & vegetarianism. From 1931-45, Hitler’s diet was for the most part vegetarian & that @ various times he called himself a vegetarian & proselytized about it. Hitler for most of his life did eat meat like most Germans do. There are reports that Hitler ate squabs, ham, sasuages & caviar for most of his life, but that in the last 14 years of his life he became a vegetarian. Hitler had flatulence problems. 😊 Some had said that the image of Hitler as a vegetarian who loved dogs & children was propaganda used by Josef Goebbells & other Nazis to make Hitler look kind & gentle. Germany (later Austria after Anschluss) did pass animal welfare laws which were advanced for it’s time during the Nazi period-such as laws regarding humane hunting, protecting the eagle (Eagle perched on Swastika was national symbol) & the Germans were advanced when it came to veterinary science during the time of the Nazis. The wolf & the eagle were the 2 animals which were prominent in Nazi themes. There’s also the Wolf’s Lair, Eagle’s Nest & Seawolves was sometimes used when referring to the Nazi naval campaign.
Hitler was not vegetarian or part vegetarian for any humane reason. He was into health fads. IHe was also quite mad. He shot his dog before killing himself as he thought his dog could talk and would tell the Allies all his secrets. Why are you posting about Hitler and the Nazis? What has this to do with the morality of hunting?
 
Elephants have been observed to pay homage to their dead-the skulls of dead elephants. Elephants are more familial as they’ve been observed to adopt orphan elephants.
Crows have also been seen to mourn. Also animals such as deer do feel sad if their young gets killed by a lion or any other predator. Just because they don’t have funerals or mourn the way people do that doesn’t change that they do feel sad when they lose a young. Zebras, deer, antelope (such as wildebeest (gnu)) will protect their young but not strangers. If a zebra’s pony or foal is attacked by hyenas, they’ll do what they can to try to save the pony. But if another zebra is attacked, they won’t interfere as it’s not their young.
Cattle will sometimes also adopt the young of another, but that proves nothing about animals’ capacity for mourning.

Nor does protection of live young.

Lots of animals eat their own young, and don’t seem to mourn about that. Hogs, in particular, one of the most intelligent of animals, will do it. Dogs will. Cats will.

I have been around animals all my life and while they sometimes don’t know if an offspring is dead right away, they totally ignore it once they realize it.
 
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