Is it ok for a gay couple to adopt?

[StCsDavid]

I appreciate all of the comment made by the previous posters and respect your dedication to the Catholic church.

However, I personally disagree. Being a recent convert to the Catholic church also probably has some bearing. I do not accept that the church is right in all things. In fact there are number of issues I disagree with. I think that the church is right in that its teachings are based on the Word of God. Also I feel that no one can understand God perfectly, and our understanding is cloudy this side of eternity. It’s not an “all or nothing” situation for me. I humbly think no church denomination fully understands the ways of God.

I guess this is what separates the “good” Catholics from the “bad” Catholics. You are all the good, faithful ones. And I must be … sigh!

Tu Amigo, Pablo

I’ve heard it said that the Devil’s favorite color is gray.

If your brother’s relationship is not of God, then who is it of? It doesn’t mean you stop loving him. It doesn’t mean you condemn him. At the same time, it doesn’t mean you defend the obvious sin. However, loving your brother’s relationship is with his partner…what is the end result of that relationship?

You seemed resigned, and very much at peace with being a “bad” Catholic. I wouldn’t call you a “bad” Catholic, but rather a very good Protestant. I don’t mean that in the pejorative. It simply means that if you don’t accept the teachings of the only Church Christ gave to humanity, then you believe something else, which makes you by default a Protestant. It doesn’t mean you’re evil, nor do I believe I am better than you.

Give this some prayerful thought and maybe talk to a priest about your doubts. As your brother in Christ, I have to say your beliefs do run contrary to the teachings of Christ. Should you be receiving Eucharist, now? Pray on that, and I will keep you in my prayers, too.

 

[carol_marie]

There are thousands, possibly millions, of loving heterosexual couples waiting to adopt. So the real situation is that it’s a choice between placing a child with a loving, married, heterosexual couple, or at best, a loving, kind gay couple.

.

I do believe that most of those couples want to adopt healthy white babies. There are so very many older children - especially older black children & children with special needs that no one is lining up to adopt. They are shuffled from foster home to foster home. I would prefer that these children were raised by loving gay parents, rather than no one. I can’t imagine growing up without anyone, can you?

 

[StCsDavid]

I do believe that most of those couples want to adopt healthy white babies. There are so very many older children - especially older black children & children with special needs that no one is lining up to adopt. They are shuffled from foster home to foster home. I would prefer that these children were raised by loving gay parents, rather than no one. I can’t imagine growing up without anyone, can you?

Do you posit that gay couples are lining up to adopt these special needs kids? Do we not deepen the perceived discrimination if we say special needs kids should go to gay couples as a last resort to foster care? Why do these kids deserve less than the best? Would we not serve these kids better by improving our foster care system or encouraging heterosexual couples to adopt these less than perfect kids?

 

[Riley259]

Surely you are not suggesting their is an equivalence between a people who were bought to this country in chains, enslaed, raped, beaten ,sold at will and discrimated against for 450 year to a group of people who’s only distinguishing chracteristic is the manner in which they engage in sex.?

Martin Luther King, Jr. condemend homosexual behavior as do most Black clergymen to day. In fact most Blacks are incensed that those who enage in homosexual behavior ,try and make a compariosn between their “cause” and the struggles Blacks went through to gain equaility. They understand, as most of us do, that sodomy does not equal race.

Well said. Gay activists use this false comparison more and more to bolster their arguments…I wish they would stop!

 

[Seatuck]

I have checked these sites and none of those causes fit me. Therefore no therapy would be able to reverse it.

Thanks for your response Jim. Therapy in this area has been stunted and therapist persecuted for attempting to persue it. I hope that will change. The goal of therapy is not always to reverse it. Often times it is just to help the person deal with it and live a healthier life. Also, we are not always the best judge of our personality traits and these are often discerned more clearly during therapy. So while something may not have jumped out clearly to you that doesn’ t mean you don’t have a leaning in that area or did during your formative years.

 

[ktp]

I do believe that most of those couples want to adopt healthy white babies. There are so very many older children - especially older black children & children with special needs that no one is lining up to adopt. They are shuffled from foster home to foster home. I would prefer that these children were raised by loving gay parents, rather than no one. I can’t imagine growing up without anyone, can you?

This suggests that heterosexual couples selfishly want only healthy, white babies, and gay couples are loving and caring enough to take any child. This is still a false premise.

According to everything I’ve heard, there ARE heterosexual couples lined up wanting to adopt any child at all. And I don’t believe that gay couples are so different that they are lining up in any greater numbers than heterosexuals to take handicapped, black, or older children.

It is still a false premise to suggest that even these children face a choice of a gay couple of no one. That is just not true.

 

[IanBoyd57]

While reading this site, I often cringe at the lack of critical thinking, or poor analysis, but this is just depressing.

Just who the hell do you all think you are?

You can’t judge all gay people like that.

The bigotry here is astounding.

Stop demonizing gay people.

Children are not stupid. They learn things. Their parents will teach them them how straight men and women interact. They will also explain that some people are gay, and are attracted to people of the same sex. They will also teach them (oh no oh no oh no!) not to judge people or be intolerant of them. Frankly, it seems this would be beneficial for some members of this site.

Yes, you can find bible passages to support gay intolerance, but you can do the same to support slavery, and this was done extensively to keep slaves in line.

I know you will ignore this and think your special, but please please at least try to step back and consider the possibility that history is once again repeating itself and some people (fine, not you, you’re ‘special’) have prejudice against gay people.

I’ve often heard the claim that homosexuality is a choice.

This always made me feel very inadequate.

Why?

Well, because no matter how hard I try, I can’t make myself gay.

I mean can you?

No one I’ve talked to can do it either.

Perhaps it’s just some weird disease spreading through our city that stops us from exercising the choice that everyone else has.

So tell me, can all you guys change your sexuality at will?

If not, may I humbly suggest you shut up until you can.

 

[carol_marie]

This suggests that heterosexual couples selfishly want only healthy, white babies, and gay couples are loving and caring enough to take any child. This is still a false premise.

Perhaps you are right - although I don’t think it’s selfish to want a healthy white baby.

My point was that if a child was stuck in foster care for years being shuffled around as MANY MANY are - and a gay couple wanted to adopt the child, I wouldn’t say no because they are gay. Do those children deserve to be placed in a traditional family w/ a Mom & Dad - of course they do. But it’s a fact that many many never get that chance.

And to IanBoyd who suggested we all shut up: This is a forum - we are allowed to discuss our opinions & you may agree or disagree - your choice - but don’t tell us to shut up. :tsktsk:

Besides, I agree with you - I think that often times being gay isn’t a choice - they probably are born that way - but so what? My father was born with a really bad temper - does that mean it’s ok if he blows up at every little thing? Nope. Gay people are loved by God and totally deserving of our respect. However, the same rules apply to them as everyone else: Sex outside of marrige is sinful and since marriage by design is one man, one woman, gay people cannot engage in sex.

 

[ktp]

Perhaps you are right - although I don’t think it’s selfish to want a healthy white baby.

Maybe not, but it’s certainly far more selfless to take on a child with disabilities or illnesses, or one who is older and may come with the traumas of his past. As I said, I don’t think gay couples are lining up in any greater numbers than heterosexuals to adopt those children.

My point was that if a child was stuck in foster care for years being shuffled around as MANY MANY are - and a gay couple wanted to adopt the child, I wouldn’t say no because they are gay. Do those children deserve to be placed in a traditional family w/ a Mom & Dad - of course they do. But it’s a fact that many many never get that chance.

My understanding is that many of these children who spend years in foster care do so due to parents who will not relinquish them for adoption. I have always heard that there are waiting lists even for the hard to place children, babies with down syndrome, etc. This is admittedly, what I’ve heard. I have not made a great study of it. But I still find it a false premise, to suggest that children are facing a choice of ONLY foster care or gay parents. I think the whole discussion was originally set up (in society, not here) to force people to answer a false what if, and go from there to a blanket policy.

 

[carol_marie]

I think the whole discussion was originally set up (in society, not here) to force people to answer a false what if, and go from there to a blanket policy.

Yes, you are probably right.

 

[fix]

While reading this site, I often cringe at the lack of critical thinking, or poor analysis, but this is just depressing.

Just who the hell do you all think you are?

You can’t judge all gay people like that.

The bigotry here is astounding.

Stop demonizing gay people.

Children are not stupid. They learn things. Their parents will teach them them how straight men and women interact. They will also explain that some people are gay, and are attracted to people of the same sex. They will also teach them (oh no oh no oh no!) not to judge people or be intolerant of them. Frankly, it seems this would be beneficial for some members of this site.

Yes, you can find bible passages to support gay intolerance, but you can do the same to support slavery, and this was done extensively to keep slaves in line.

I know you will ignore this and think your special, but please please at least try to step back and consider the possibility that history is once again repeating itself and some people (fine, not you, you’re ‘special’) have prejudice against gay people.

I’ve often heard the claim that homosexuality is a choice.

This always made me feel very inadequate.

Why?

Well, because no matter how hard I try, I can’t make myself gay.

I mean can you?

No one I’ve talked to can do it either.

Perhaps it’s just some weird disease spreading through our city that stops us from exercising the choice that everyone else has.

So tell me, can all you guys change your sexuality at will?

If not, may I humbly suggest you shut up until you can.

The problem I see with your line of reasoning is that all your conclusions are based on the premise you possess the ultimate truth in this matter. Kinda like saying if everyone just saw things as I do you would see I am right?

I cannot see how folks we will see the distortion in moral thinking on this issue if they make themselves the final aribter of right and wrong. That is the basis for almost all immoral choices today. Instead of informing our consciences properly we start by claiming something is right because our opinion on the matter is right.

 

[estesbob]

While reading this site, I often cringe at the lack of critical thinking, or poor analysis, but this is just depressing.

Just who the hell do you all think you are?

I am a person who follows the teachings of the One True Church. The Church teachings imparted the Holy Spirit and passed down and explained by the direct spiritual descendants of the Apostles. Why should anyone reject the teachings of the Church for the teachings of one who’s only argument seems to be calling anyone who disagrees with him as bigots.

 

[IanBoyd57]

And to IanBoyd who suggested we all shut up: This is a forum - we are allowed to discuss our opinions & you may agree or disagree - your choice - but don’t tell us to shut up. :tsktsk:

I wasn’t telling anyone to shut up period…

I was just saying that if you can’t change your sexual orientation at will, and you can’t make the choice yourself, you can’t (well, at least not in any rational way, although for many this doesn’t seem to be a huge burden) claim that it is a choice.

It just boggles my mind how often this happens.

I mean think about it; if it’s a choice, why can’t you choose differently right now?

If you can’t, (and at least 99% of you can’t), then why in the world are you running around saying it’s a choice?

 

[IanBoyd57]

The problem I see with your line of reasoning is that all your conclusions are based on the premise you possess the ultimate truth in this matter. Kinda like saying if everyone just saw things as I do you would see I am right?

I cannot see how folks we will see the distortion in moral thinking on this issue if they make themselves the final aribter of right and wrong. That is the basis for almost all immoral choices today. Instead of informing our consciences properly we start by claiming something is right because our opinion on the matter is right.

Erm, I’m not sure where I claimed to be the (I’m assuming you meant “arbiter”) of right and wrong, perhaps you could point that out?

I’m asking you not to judge people.

I didn’t claim that the catholic God is ok with gay people.

I probably should’ve pointed out that no religion rules the world, and that is where I am coming from, because when you are talking about adoption, you can’t confine yourself to any specific religion, you have to use rational thinking and not unchanging non-debateable scripture. Sorry, that’s not how the world works. At least, not in America. If you really like religions to run things, though, you could move to the middle east, and get a taste for what happens then.

Look, I’m fine with it if you want to discriminate against gay people in your own little religion or club or whatever. Well, ok, I’m not actually fine with it, because I am against prejudice and discrimination, but nevertheless, I recognize your right to do such things.

However, your religious intolerance does not get to leak out all over and effect actual laws and other people’s lives who (gasp) aren’t catholic, or even christian.

Yet, this is a catholic forum, so I guess I’m at fault for not specifying that I was talking about the real outside world as a whole, and I’m sorry I was not clearer.

I am no arbiter; I make my moral decisions by rational secular thinking.

I look at what my actions do to people, and because I know that people do not like pain, I avoid inflicting it on them as much as I can.

If this is arrogant of me, to consider how my actions weigh against my fellow humans in terms of what they feel, not some far away high up God, then fine, you win.

But if the 9/11 hijackers only thought like me instead of you, the world would be much better place.

 

[estesbob]

Erm, I’m not sure where I claimed to be the (I’m assuming you meant “arbiter”) of right and wrong, perhaps you could point that out?

I’m asking you not to judge people.

I didn’t claim that the catholic God is ok with gay people.

What is the Catholic God?

I probably should’ve pointed out that no religion rules the world, and that is where I am coming from, because when you are talking about adoption, you can’t confine yourself to any specific religion, you have to use rational thinking and not unchanging non-debateable scripture. Sorry, that’s not how the world works. At least, not in America. If you really like religions to run things, though, you could move to the middle east, and get a taste for what happens then.

I thought the people ran things? The people are overwhemlingly against same sex marriage and letting those who enagage in homosexual behavior adopt children

Look, I’m fine with it if you want to discriminate against gay people in your own little religion or club or whatever. Well, ok, I’m not actually fine with it, because I am against prejudice and discrimination, but nevertheless, I recognize your right to do such things.

How are we disciminating against those who enagge in homosexual behavior?

However, your religious intolerance does not get to leak out all over and effect actual laws and other people’s lives who (gasp) aren’t catholic, or even christian.

Religious intolerance? I homosexual behavior a religion we are bound to tolerate?

Yet, this is a catholic forum, so I guess I’m at fault for not specifying that I was talking about the real outside world as a whole, and I’m sorry I was not clearer.

The outside world agrees with the Catholic Church on this issue.

I am no arbiter; I make my moral decisions by rational secular thinking.

I look at what my actions do to people, and because I know that people do not like pain, I avoid inflicting it on them as much as I can.

If this is arrogant of me, to consider how my actions weigh against my fellow humans in terms of what they feel, not some far away high up God, then fine, you win.

But if the 9/11 hijackers only thought like me instead of you, the world would be much better place.

The 9-11 Hijackers were catholics???

 

[fix]

Erm, I’m not sure where I claimed to be the (I’m assuming you meant “arbiter”) of right and wrong, perhaps you could point that out?

Yes, arbiter. I assume you make typos as well.

I’m asking you not to judge people.

I didn’t claim that the catholic God is ok with gay people.

Catholic God? There is more than one God?

I probably should’ve pointed out that no religion rules the world, and that is where I am coming from, because when you are talking about adoption, you can’t confine yourself to any specific religion, you have to use rational thinking and not unchanging non-debateable scripture.

Truth is not irrational. The logic used by the Church can be known by those who do not accept revelation. It may be known by right reason and understanding the natural law.

Sorry, that’s not how the world works. At least, not in America. If you really like religions to run things, though, you could move to the middle east, and get a taste for what happens then.

I guess chattel slavery should be considered an option based on your logic.

Look, I’m fine with it if you want to discriminate against gay people in your own little religion or club or whatever. Well, ok, I’m not actually fine with it, because I am against prejudice and discrimination, but nevertheless, I recognize your right to do such things.

I am not fine with society endorsing deviant behavior. We all discriminate every day and it is just discrimination. Society rightly discriminates in many ways. Failure to justly discriminate would lead to chaos.

However, your religious intolerance does not get to leak out all over and effect actual laws and other people’s lives who (gasp) aren’t catholic, or even christian.

You mean your moral relativism does not get to impose your deviant ideology on the rest of society.

Yet, this is a catholic forum, so I guess I’m at fault for not specifying that I was talking about the real outside world as a whole, and I’m sorry I was not clearer.

Reality exists here and outside here. What you may mean is that poor moral reasoning will be dissected here more thoroughly than by non discriminating secularists who reject moral truth.

I am no arbiter; I make my moral decisions by rational secular thinking.

Perhaps you can show me how rational thinking excludes moral truth?

I look at what my actions do to people, and because I know that people do not like pain, I avoid inflicting it on them as much as I can.

I see. So, if a person says it is painful if you force them to obey the speed limit you decide the speed limit is intolerant?

If this is arrogant of me, to consider how my actions weigh against my fellow humans in terms of what they feel, not some far away high up God, then fine, you win.

Feelings are not truth. If you act solely based on a feeling then we can say pretty much anything goes. That is moral relativism.

But if the 9/11 hijackers only thought like me instead of you, the world would be much better place.

They thought exactly as you do. That is why I am so against moral relativism.

 

[KathleenElsie]

The problem I have with this line of thinking is that it makes no mention of the heterosexual households where there is alcohol (abuse not wine with supper), violence, adultery etc. It is automatically assumed that being gay = being abusive. That is so not fair.
Kathy

When I worked as a case manager all of those things were considered reasons not to place a child.

 

[Sixtus]

The Church teaches that “Gay Couples” are not to adopt children because “it is a form of violence” against them.

Frankly I do not have any objections. I am surprised the Church calls it violence. But we have to accept the teaching magisterium of the Church.

 

[IanBoyd57]

What is the Catholic God?

I thought the people ran things? The people are overwhemlingly against same sex marriage and letting those who enagage in homosexual behavior adopt children

How are we disciminating against those who enagge in homosexual behavior?

Religious intolerance? I homosexual behavior a religion we are bound to tolerate?

The outside world agrees with the Catholic Church on this issue.

The 9-11 Hijackers were catholics???

The catholic God is the one from the bible. He is a character, a person (although whether or not he has free will, I can’t say because of the logical contradictions of timelessness and omniscience). Whether or not you believe he is real, I can still refer to him, just like you can refer to Zeus.

The people do run things. I’m attempting to change people’s minds.

The people were also overwhelmingly for slavery.

You are discriminating against those who engage in homosexual behavior by denying them the right to marry the people they are romantically in love with.

I wasn’t talking about homosexuality as a religion (duh), I was talking about your religion being intolerant of them.

The 9/11 hijackers weren’t catholic. You seem to be reading rather selectively and not getting the point of what I am saying.

If the 9/11 hijackers considered how their actions effected the real world we live in, and what it did to actual humans in terms of their feelings and their desires, (which is how I make decisions), as opposed to a dogmatic obedience to their non-debateable religious authority which is not constrained by any rationality or humanistic morality (which is what I am asking you not to do), then they would not have smashed those planes into the world trade centers.

It’s really really hard to make good people do bad things, but unfortunately, religion is one of ways. Again, not trying to offend anyone, but historically it’s true. Unless you just want to chalk up entire historical groups of people as plain evil, well, then we have differing views on human nature. I hold responsible the leaders who dupe the masses, not the sheep who follow them off the cliff. Again, not talking about your religion, just every other religion that has ever existed on the face of this earth, more or less.

 

[thistle]

Frankly I do not have any objections. I am surprised the Church calls it violence. But we have to accept the teaching magisterium of the Church./QUOTE]