Is it possible that God can relent on the eternal punishment in Hell?

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That’s a good point, but still the parent will (usually) try to do everything to get that child out of their tantrum and happy again. And certainly God as our Father loves us. That’s why I maintain the hope that pain will end. I do agree that those in hell don’t want heaven, because they shut God out.
You wrote, “the parent will (usually) try to do everything to get that child out of their tantrum and happy again” .

Shouldn’t we think that God is “better”, to put it mildly, than the best parent or parents that have ever been, are or will be?

You also wrote, " I do agree that those in hell don’t want heaven", you may agree with this but the “bible” does not seem to agree with this?

I, personally, very much disagree with the part of the statement that says, “that those in hell don’t want heaven”.

They might be in hell “because they shut God out” but that doesn’t necessarily mean “that those in hell don’t want heaven”.

There is a story (parable) in the bible about one in hell who wanted to get a message to his brothers, remember it?

This story (parable) was spoken of before Jesus went to the cross, by the way.

People can hear about hell all that they want but they will “know” absolutely nothing about hell until they experience it even if that experience is for less than a nanosecond.

There is a difference between “knowing” something and having “thoughts” about something.

The difference between those who have had a “glimpse” of hell and those who have “expernienced” hell is kinda like the difference between seeing an accident and being in the accident.

By the way when I address a resonse to anyone, it is not just to the person it is addressed to.
 
okay, i watched it. he seems a bit out there, does he get the church’s stamp of approval? if the door to hell is locked from the inside, why didn’t the rich man unlock it and join lazurus in abraham’s bosom? oh wait, there’s this great chasm. i know, it’s just a metaphor. no worries.
You do realize that this parable was spoken before Jesus went to the cross, don’t you?
 
The real question is NOT what CAN God do–He can do anything He wants. If he chose to empty hell of all its inhabitants and bring them all into to heaven, that is precisely what would occur. The real queston is what WILL He do–and I have never read anywhere that He planned on eliminating hell or bringing souls who have merited hell into heaven at any point. It’s a nice thought and all–but I’m sure not counting on it.
As far as “bringing souls who have merited hell into heaven at any point”.

Doesn’t the Church teach that ALL, and if not ALL than purt near ALL, of those that are in heaven have merited hell but that it is what God did that made it possible that anyone is in heaven?
 
I know it exists.

As far as “Get over it and focus on love”, what do you think that I have been writing about?

God Is a Being of Love and in the Incarnation, God became One of us and took on ALL of EVERYONE’S sins, isn’t that what Jesus is supposed to have done?

It is even stated that Jesus became sin, doesn’t it?

If God’s Plan is not catholic than God’s Plan is not worth squat.
The problem isn’t that God’s plan isn’t Catholic.

It’s that there are people who refuse to become Catholic. And God won’t force them to become Catholic. 😉
 
Are you saying the Pope works for Satan? :confused:

*'In an interview published in part in the Argentine weekly “Viva” July 27, the pope listed his Top 10 tips for bringing greater joy to one’s life:
  1. Live and let live*.” Everyone should be guided by this principle, he said, which has a similar expression in Rome with the saying, “Move forward and let others do the same.”
(story also carried by many other newspapers and channels worldwide)
With all due respect to his holiness those verses are troubling.

“Live and let live” is not directed to anything except moral subjectivism and relativism. It’s no different than “live as you please and let others do likewise.” That is the polar opposite of the moral imperative of being your brother’s keeper and doing the good that ought to be done and avoiding the evil that ought to be avoided.

“Move forward and let others do the same” is obviously directed towards one thing: Goodness.

Sin is not “moving forward,” its moral stagnancy and slavery. It’s to stumble and fall. There is no movement in habitual sin, only a prison.

And to continue to move forward while your brother or sister continues to stumble without help from you is the epitome of self-concern and callous indifference-the antithesis of love.

I understand what the Pope is trying to say, but unqualified they create serious problems.
 
Hello OneSheep.

Please show me where the word heresy is not supposed to be used by laypersons. You won’t find it any where and that is simply you placing a censure over my words. You’d like me and others to believe something that isn’t true. There is no censorship among laypersons of the word heresy. A spade is a spade and an apple cannot be confused with an orange. To refuse to believe what one is supposed to and to tell others to do the same is heretical. Where did you ever hear that only Church authorities are allowed to use the word? That is nonsense and also false teaching. Please find some citations for your supposed censorship rules. I personally will never hope that anyone who goes to Hell has a way out. That too is heresy. Seems like the shoes fit. Have a fine walk in them. It might be hot and smelly and painful at the end of that trail though. Good luck with that.

Glenda
So, the canon lawyer I know said this is applicable:

Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

In order for someone’s words to be considered heretical, Glenda, the obstinancy has to be proven. I was referring to the way you had used “heresy” against Estel’s use of “hope” for someone being released from hell. It is our hierarchy that ulitmately decides whether a particular person is being heretical. It is not for us to decide, and it is not charitable, which is what is called for on the CAF. Please be charitable, Glenda. Accusations of heresy go back to the witch-hunt days.

Our Holy Father asks us to be kind and merciful, as our Lord is kind and merciful. Refusal to be kind and merciful, is that obstinancy? Maybe.😉

Is it an apostasy to say that someone else in the Church does not belong, is not Catholic? This is a refusal of communion with the members of the Church, right? I am not accusing you, Glenda, we are all subject to having very large posts in our eyes, me included. 🙂

Why do you hope that anyone who goes to hell never has a way out?
 
No one has been able to come up with a case of such rejection in the “knowingly and willingly” thread on this forum.

I find the language of “invincibility” very vague.

If I choose to remain ignorant about sins because I condemn all authority, then this would also be a matter of ignorance.

… there are some of us who are so caught up in self-loathing that they do not care about their destiny, they think they “deserve” the worst. Such, again, is a matter of ignorance or blindness.

…Would God be so uncharitable that He would refuse a repenting soul from hell? It doesn’t make sense.

… I make the afterlife penalty as severe as possible, with no escape, so as to motivate people to behave. …
*That that do not want to listen are not even convinced by miracles. Neither were the *Pharisees saying that demons did them. Finally, charitas saves.Luke 16:31 And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.

Matthew 5:17-20 Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled. He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, that unless your justice abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.
Humans have a conscience which informs them that the hypothetical “ooflesnopping” is a sin. It can happen that through ignoring that conscience and through repeated sins, that awareness is deadened.

God does not withhold forgiveness, the sinner controls it through repentance and asking for forgiveness. There is no assurance that it can be asked for after death.

You wrote: “People do not do mortal sin when they are aware of the seriousness of the sin”. You must mean something other that what you wrote, because this is an obvious fallacy, since there would never be any mortal sins committed, but we know that there are mortal sins committed.

However it is not necessary to know the seriousness of a sin to commit it mortally and be culpable for it.

The culpability arises foremost from negligence, but also indifference.

“… the guilt of an act performed or omitted in vincible ignorance is not to be measured by the intrinsic malice of the thing done or omitted so much as by the degree of negligence discernible in the act.”

You may find this helpful to distinguish ignorance:So far as fixing human responsibility, the most important division of ignorance is that designated by the terms invincible and vincible. Ignorance is said to be invincible when a person is unable to rid himself of it notwithstanding the employment of moral diligence, that is, such as under the circumstances is, morally speaking, possible and obligatory. This manifestly includes the states of inadvertence, forgetfulness, etc. Such ignorance is obviously involuntary and therefore not imputable. On the other hand, ignorance is termed vincible if it can be dispelled by the use of “moral diligence”. This certainly does not mean all possible effort; otherwise, as Ballerini naively says, we should have to have recourse to the pope in every instance. We may say, however, that the diligence requisite must be commensurate with the importance of the affair in hand, and with the capacity of the agent, in a word such as a really sensible and prudent person would use under the circumstances. Furthermore, it must be remembered that the obligation mentioned above is to be interpreted strictly and exclusively as the duty incumbent on a man to do something, the precise object of which is the acquisition of the needed knowledge. In other words the mere fact that one is bound by some extrinsic title to do something the performance of which would have actually, though not necessarily, given the required information, is negligible. When ignorance is deliberately aimed at and fostered, it is said to be affected, not because it is pretended, but rather because it is sought for by the agent so that he may not have to relinquish his purpose. Ignorance which practically no effort is made to dispel is termed crass or supine.

Delany, J. (1910). Ignorance. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company.
newadvent.org/cathen/07648a.htm
 
With all due respect to his holiness those verses are troubling.

“Live and let live” is not directed to anything except moral subjectivism and relativism. It’s no different than “live as you please and let others do likewise.”
I see the statements as much different, but you see them as no different. I understand where you are coming from.

I am taking the “live” much more literally. We are to respect one another. We are to let people live. I agree with you, there is a moral imperative to help others out of slavery and addiction, but that is not what Pope Francis is talking about, of course.
 
There is a tendency among us puny humans to think of eternity as merely a really, really long time. It’s not. It’s existence in the NOW, apart from time. Time as we know it is part of this world. Eternity is existence in timelessness. Angels exist in eternity which is why you don’t hear about repentance and betrayal apart from the choosing sides that occurred upon their creation (angels vs demons). After final judgment, I suspect we too will exist in eternity rather than time. By definition, your character doesn’t change in eternity. You are who you are.

So choose wisely while change is still possible.
Wow. This is one of the best explanations I have heard on this question. This question, about eternity in hell never seemed just to me before. This makes perfect sense to me. What is odd, is the answer involves science almost. There are temporal differences between the living and the dead.

This is one of the better threads I have read on CAF!
 
If I may cut in here:
Can we all just accept this, and focus on Love, and service to all? I am not saying discussion is fruitless; are you open to the idea that faith is not exclusive?

Yes, I understand your aversion to those who think they are “saved” and then go off and sin again. Those people, Glenda, are rationalizing their behaviors. Perhaps they have very weak prayer lives, who knows? People who sin are lacking in knowledge or are blind. All are subject to this.

Nothing about Love is a slippery slope. Love, in the presence of full knowledge, excludes all sin.
 
So, the canon lawyer I know said this is applicable:

Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

In order for someone’s words to be considered heretical, Glenda, the obstinancy has to be proven. I was referring to the way you had used “heresy” against Estel’s use of “hope” for someone being released from hell. It is our hierarchy that ulitmately decides whether a particular person is being heretical. It is not for us to decide, and it is not charitable, which is what is called for on the CAF. Please be charitable, Glenda. Accusations of heresy go back to the witch-hunt days.
That’s not true either. There are two types of heresy, material heresy and formal heresy.

Someone who professes to be a Catholic yet believes or professes beliefs contrary to the Catholic Faith is in a state of material heresy.

Someone who maintains such belief, and refuses correction, is by definition a formal heretic and are denied communion until they repent.

Someone can hold heterodox views without necessarily being in heresy just so long as their intention is to follow the teachings of the Church. When anyone, including even people who are in the laity, confront that person in regards of their heterodox views and they refuse correction, then it is established that their views are heresy.

FYI, its the Inquisition, witch hunts were the purview of Calvinists.
Our Holy Father asks us to be kind and merciful, as our Lord is kind and merciful. Refusal to be kind and merciful, is that obstinancy? Maybe.😉
The Lord was kind and merciful to the humble and obedient. He was curt and stern and frank with those who were not.
Why do you hope that anyone who goes to hell never has a way out?
That’s a rather disengenuous question. It’s on par with asking someone, “when did you stop beating your wife?”

Not real charitable, OneSheep.
 
. There is no Hell – God would never allow such a place
I completely understand the faith, logic, and reasoning you are subscribing to here. But then I have to think of times in my life when I was a miserable sinner, and the feeling of having that sin lifted and opening my heart to the light of God, turning my back and resisting evil and evil temptations, the freedom from bondage.

I also think to the dark evil out there in the hearts of people who, like one of the interrogators written about in the news who works for the Assad regime. A 13 year old boy was picked up by the Syrian secret police and tortured in ways over a period that rival or goes beyond what the Nazis did in Europe. People like John Wayne Gacey. Souls so devoid of any sense of compassion that it defies any sense of humanity or reason.

I cannot see into the hearts of men the way our Lord or God does, but I have to ask: Was there a time that Hitler picked a flower from a garden and marveled at the beauty of it? How did he go from that one act of kindness or maybe even others, to one of the most notorious butchers in recorded history? The answer most likely is, one sin at a time.

There are those who fall victim to sin, and are corrupted by their victimization. Other victims resist and channel their pain into preventing others from becoming victims. Perhaps those who sin as a result of bitterness from the injuries done to them by others receive some sort of dispensation… I have no idea. But for those who become totally devoid of love or the light, can Heaven possibly exist for such people? I don’t think they would even like it there.
 
Robin Parry was mentioned in one post. Robin Parry is a Christian Universalist. It is from reading about Christian Universalism that I first became aware of God’s complete overarching mercy and love that cannot allow a soul to be sent to hell and punished for eternity.
Forcing someone to do something, even though you know it is for their own good never works and only hardens them against you. This is common sense.

Robin Parry is doing nothing more than appealing to wishful thinking.
Also, one post mentioned the Jewish faith which does not believe that children and those from other religions will go to Hell. From what I have read on Judaism, their stance on the afterlife is very similar, if not identical to Christian Universalism. All souls will eventually end up in heaven.
That wasn’t their position at all. Their position was that all Jews would wind up in paradise and that the Gentiles would no longer exist. Their view of the Gentiles was either annihilation or a paganistic afterlife of eternally lost disembodied souls in darkness forever in She’ol.
Some posts mention the liberal attitudes of modern society today where anything goes and all is OK. I completely agree that society has become too liberal. I certainly do not believe that anything goes and all is OK. We are responsible for our actions and there are repercussions in this life and the afterlife for our actions. But, these repercussions cannot include torture and cannot go on for ever.
Yes they can. Choices have consequences, and even temporal choices have eternal consequences.
I have read posts mentioning the fear of God and the fear of Hell. We are preaching a religion based on fear and not love. If a God wants you to fear him, which comes up throughout the Bible, then it is not the real God but some evil entity. It works the same for fear of the afterlife.
There is a difference between servile fear and fear of offending God because of His love.

Regardless when the latter fails the former is a necessary good if it eventually leads to the latter.
We try to evangelize the Good News but all people see is a God who perpetrates Bad News with harsh punishment in this life and unbelievably harsher punishment in the after life.
That says more about those “people” than about God.
I believe as Christians living in the 21st Century, we need to concentrate on love. The kind of love that Jesus and His real Father gives freely to everyone. If people refuse this incredible free gift, then their lives will never be fully satisfied and there will always be a void in their lives.
And here you contradict yourself. The “void” you speak of is hell.
There is no Hell – God would never allow such a place
Matthew 25:
41] Then he will say to those at his left hand, `Depart from me, you cursed, into **the eternal fire **prepared for the devil and his angels…
[46] And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

This is Jesus saying this. How do you explain it?
 
arte;12220999:
The contradiction is in your understanding.

Sorry, definitely not in my understanding. The contradiction is real and easily seen. The story of Lucifer and his fall is about as believable as Thor in the Marvel comics. Substitute God with Odin and the Devil with Loki and the story is quite similar. Catechism 391: The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God “The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing.” “All the angels were created by the Word of God and perfected by the Holy Spirit through sanctification; corresponding to their dignity and to their order of rank, they became participators in the illumination and the grace”(The Orthodox Faith, II, 3). The angels were created naturally good by God and sanctified (made Holy) by the Holy Spirit. Despite their incredible Holy creation and being in Heaven (where there is no sin) a senior angel and a third (not just one or two) of the angels become evil by their own doing. How much more of a contradiction do you want? God is omnipotent and can see into the future. Yet he still creates a pile of angels knowing that one of them is going to become the Devil and a third of them, evil demons. Furthermore, God knows in advance that He will have to create Hell to put them into. Using simple logic, we have God to thank for creating the Devil, evil demons, and a horrific place called Hell. I cannot see God doing anything like the above so how can Satan be a fallen archangel, the demons fallen angels, and Hell existing?

What is Heaven but a loving mutual relationship with God?
I am sure that when we die and ACTUALLY feel God’s love for us, everyone would reciprocate and be in a loving mutual relationship with Him.
.
Once we are dead. There is no more moral change. You cannot become better or worse than you are. You are dead - this is finished. From that kernal that is your soul, you will be resurrected in accordance to who you became in this life. If you are sin itself, you will be sin itself as seen by the true Judge who is Love itself.
Basically, you are using the “fear factor” of God and Hell by this statement. Fear of God is an oxymoron. With the exception of some sick evil people in the World, the majority of mankind is not sin itself even if they die with a mortal sin on their soul. The true Judge is indeed Love itself. Surely an omnipotent God who is Love itself can somehow turn a soul from having sin on it into one without sin. I have read some posts here where it is said that sinners would not repent even in Hell. They would rather go on sinning than accept God’s love because they love their sins so much. If there was a Hell, I’m sure a sinner there would accept God’s love and want to move to Heaven.
 
As an older woman who fell away from the church for over 30 years, I will only say this. If people spent as much time trying to live as Jesus told us to right along with when He assured us that hell existed,as they do trying to convince themselves that nothing bad they ever did will really count, we’d probably all be better off! 🙂
 
I completely understand the faith, logic, and reasoning you are subscribing to here. But then I have to think of times in my life when I was a miserable sinner, and the feeling of having that sin lifted and opening my heart to the light of God, turning my back and resisting evil and evil temptations, the freedom from bondage.

I also think to the dark evil out there in the hearts of people who, like one of the interrogators written about in the news who works for the Assad regime. A 13 year old boy was picked up by the Syrian secret police and tortured in ways over a period that rival or goes beyond what the Nazis did in Europe. People like John Wayne Gacey. Souls so devoid of any sense of compassion that it defies any sense of humanity or reason.

I cannot see into the hearts of men the way our Lord or God does, but I have to ask: Was there a time that Hitler picked a flower from a garden and marveled at the beauty of it? How did he go from that one act of kindness or maybe even others, to one of the most notorious butchers in recorded history? The answer most likely is, one sin at a time.
There are those who fall victim to sin, and are corrupted by their victimization. Other victims resist and channel their pain into preventing others from becoming victims. Perhaps those who sin as a result of bitterness from the injuries done to them by others receive some sort of dispensation… I have no idea. But for those who become totally devoid of love or the light, can Heaven possibly exist for such people? I don’t think they would even like it there.
This maybe going off the thread, but I also wondered did Hitler ever kill anyone himself, or did he just give the orders? Not that I’m saying he isn’t responsible for all the killings, but was he someone who gave the orders but never took part physically in the murders?
 
Well, he killed himself for one and I don’t really know if Eva Braun killed herself as part of their suicide pack or if he pulled the trigger. Either way, we’re arguing semantics–he certainly ordered the deaths of thousands in his prison camps and is drenched in the blood of thousands and thousands whose deaths he ordered and were only carried out for that reason.!
 
Hello OneSheep.
So, the canon lawyer I know said this is applicable:

Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

In order for someone’s words to be considered heretical, Glenda, the obstinancy has to be proven. I was referring to the way you had used “heresy” against Estel’s use of “hope” for someone being released from hell. It is our hierarchy that ulitmately decides whether a particular person is being heretical. It is not for us to decide, and it is not charitable, which is what is called for on the CAF. Please be charitable, Glenda. Accusations of heresy go back to the witch-hunt days.

Our Holy Father asks us to be kind and merciful, as our Lord is kind and merciful. Refusal to be kind and merciful, is that obstinancy? Maybe.😉

Is it an apostasy to say that someone else in the Church does not belong, is not Catholic? This is a refusal of communion with the members of the Church, right? I am not accusing you, Glenda, we are all subject to having very large posts in our eyes, me included. 🙂

Why do you hope that anyone who goes to hell never has a way out?
You are correct to note that the Church has the ability to formally charge a person with heresy. However, no where is it written that laypersons cannot use the word. That is your mistake. It is also not on an imaginary list of words considered so “uncharitable” by the Moderators of CAF that is cannot be written here. That too is your need. The CAF Moderators are not Censors, they are Moderators.

I’d also like to say this: not all heretics are formally charged by the Church with the crime that they are guilty of and failure to charge a person with heresy, doesn’t absolve the person who is a heretic, nor does it imply that a person isn’t a heretic. You are correct in noting that laypersons in general cannot charge anyone with heresy for the Church. But not all heretics get charged with their crime. In fact, most don’t. But God knows they are and so do others who encounter them.

If you are so sensitive to the word heresy or heretic or heretical that you cannot even see someone use it in a sentence, then I suggest you pray about it. I cannot stop using the word.

Glenda
 
Hello OneSheep.

You are correct to note that the Church has the ability to formally charge a person with heresy. However, no where is it written that laypersons cannot use the word. That is your mistake. It is also not on an imaginary list of words considered so “uncharitable” by the Moderators of CAF that is cannot be written here. That too is your need. The CAF Moderators are not Censors, they are Moderators.

I’d also like to say this: not all heretics are formally charged by the Church with the crime that they are guilty of and failure to charge a person with heresy, doesn’t absolve the person who is a heretic, nor does it imply that a person isn’t a heretic. You are correct in noting that laypersons in general cannot charge anyone with heresy for the Church. But not all heretics get charged with their crime. In fact, most don’t. But God knows they are and so do others who encounter them.

If you are so sensitive to the word heresy or heretic or heretical that you cannot even see someone use it in a sentence, then I suggest you pray about it. I cannot stop using the word.

Glenda
Glenda,

You will have to take my word for it that my friend the canon lawyer said that “heresy” is not a word to be thrown around by lay people on one another. If nothing else, it is a bit demeaning. I request that you not use it against me or anyone else. If you don’t agree with what someone says, that’s okay, but to call it “heresy” is a condemnation, and if we are in condemnation mode, then that is precisely when forgiveness is called for. I forgive you for using it, but my request is still there.

I am a bit confused about you, Glenda. I know that you consider yourself obedient, but when I suggest that you to ask a priest about this stuff, you seem to shrug it off. I would highly doubt that any priest would say something contrary to what I did above, because “heresy” is a divisive word, and our Church takes a pastoral approach.

If I am calling many around me heretics, Glenda, it is me that is dividing myself out of communion, not the other way around. Holiness is “wholeness”, it is seeing God within myself and all others. For me, striving for holiness is just that, seeing God in the other, even my “enemies”. It takes forgiveness, Glenda. I’m not talking about compromising beliefs, I am talking about seeing the Love within all that transcends words and doctrines.

And, speaking of forgiveness:
40.png
glendab:
I personally will never hope that anyone who goes to Hell has a way out.
Why would you never hope this, Glenda?

I’m still praying for your medical problems. I hope things are looking up. Take care.
 
The Lord was kind and merciful to the humble and obedient. He was curt and stern and frank with those who were not.
Yes, we have some evidence that Jesus could be angry at people, and even condemning in tone. We have to remember that the Word came and became fully human, and it is human to get angry, condemn, and resent. And let’s be real, some of Jesus’ words against the Pharisees and others seemed downright unforgiving.

However, it is my sincere belief that Jesus forgave them, all of them in time, if not before, he chastised them. This belief is grounded in my own relationship with God, it is grounded in my prayer life, which means that it isn’t something to be argued or debated. “Forgive them, for they know not what they do” is a starting point.

There will be plenty of people reading this who will agree, and disagree, with what I am stating here. And really, this is what this thread boils down to, Does God will to relent? And, Is hell an “eternal punishment” or is it a place of healing the misperceptions we have? When we forgive all those we hold something against, as Jesus asks us to do, then we can see that God the Father does no less. I cannot project a God who is less forgiving than I am, it makes no sense to me.

On the other hand, forgiveness takes time and prayer, and the Church must include those of us who have a lot of trouble forgiving others. Some of us cannot imagine sharing heaven with the likes of Hitler and other such sinners, and that is very understandable. So, let us break bread together, those of us who are struggling with forgiveness and see God as more wrathful, and those of us who do not. There is room at the table for everyone.🙂 Did those who gathered in front of Jesus who broke bread together, sharing the loaves and fishes, all forgive those they had held something against? I highly doubt it. But in the breaking of the bread, we are inspired to forgive. Are you following my thinking here?

I see Jesus as being kind and merciful to everyone, unless His anger was triggered, Amandil. But again, when our anger is triggered, the call is to forgive.

I really like these a lot. I hope you read them:

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1403144.htm
 
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