Is it possible that God can relent on the eternal punishment in Hell?

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Hello Shelby.
I am sorry if you are confused. I am also sorry that you are not open to what God still has to reveal to us or teach us. There is still so much wisdom and faith for God to teach us when the time is right. I find it sad when people think God’s wisdom to us is over and there is no more wonder for Him to reveal.

You simply do not know what is 100% true, only God knows that, and there is much more to come. Hopefully someday you can be open to it. I think it will be wonderful!
There is nothing else to be revealed by God to His Church. After the death of the last Apostle, all that God wanted us to know was complete. This too, is Church teaching and you are deviating in this regard as well when you say things to the contrary. There are no new revelations about God or our Faith that we have yet to discover. The Church does know what is 100% true - all of it - everything necessary for our Salvation. To abide in her is to obey her in all things and to believe all things she holds true. Those who seek new revelations are seeking in vain. They generally loose their faith in the chase after wind their vanities lead to them to.

Glenda
 
I am sorry if you are confused. I am also sorry that you are not open to what God still has to reveal to us or teach us. There is still so much wisdom and faith for God to teach us when the time is right. I find it sad when people think God’s wisdom to us is over and there is no more wonder for Him to reveal.

You simply do not know what is 100% true, only God knows that, and there is much more to come. Hopefully someday you can be open to it. I think it will be wonderful!
Church doctrine is 100% true; I am sorry that you are so deceived that you do not even know this. You do trust Catholic doctrine and think that you know more than what Holy Mother Church teaches in the name of Jesus Christ … I pity you, for you will suffer consequences for your not trusting Holy Mother Church’s teachings. God bless you.
 
Church doctrine is 100% true; I am sorry that you are so deceived that you do not even know this. You do trust Catholic doctrine and think that you know more than what Holy Mother Church teaches in the name of Jesus Christ … I pity you, for you will suffer consequences for your not trusting Holy Mother Church’s teachings. God bless you.
You can pity me all you like. I do not worship the Holy Mother Church, just has I do not worship the Blessed Mother, God id the only one we are to worship. I am sorry that you do not know that.
 
Hello Shelby.

There is nothing else to be revealed by God to His Church. After the death of the last Apostle, all that God wanted us to know was complete. This too, is Church teaching and you are deviating in this regard as well when you say things to the contrary. There are no new revelations about God or our Faith that we have yet to discover. The Church does know what is 100% true - all of it - everything necessary for our Salvation. To abide in her is to obey her in all things and to believe all things she holds true. Those who seek new revelations are seeking in vain. They generally loose their faith in the chase after wind their vanities lead to them to.

Glenda
Well I am sorry but I will believe all the priest I work with when they tell me you are flat out wrong. I am sorry you put limits on God, who has been revealing Himself to us for the last 2000 years. I am sorry you are not open to God, but rather choose to worship the Church, which we are not suppose to do. We are only suppose to worship God alone. I hope someday you learn to open your heart and spirit to what God has to teach you.
 
:tsktsk:
Don’t think about the punishments, think about the choices which lead to those punishments.

The eternity of the afterlife is easy to understand if we eye everything in a way where this Earth is not our true home. That is to say, don’t get too comfortable here. The **real **world lies above.

:confused: How is Hell a washing machine?

That’s right, Hell is a consequential punishment.
As far as, “Don’t think about the punishments”.

How could somebody not?

Even if someone were to think/believe that they were going to the good place, wouldn’t thinking that someone else was going to go to a place beyond horror for ever and ever and ever and…, seem to be a thought that would occur to someone that has a least a “drop of decency” flowing thru their veins"?

You asked, “How is Hell a washing machine?”

Think of sin as crud and hell is God’s way of showing us our crud, since everyone’s hell is custom built by its inhabitant.

Since Jesus took on the sins of ALL, Jesus went to the hells of ALL, seeing as Jesus, as it is written, PAID IN FULL the RANSOM of ALL.
 
The truth about the eternity of heaven and hell has been revealed. It not one of the unknowns.
Isn’t there something about the “new heavens and the new earth”?

Could be that we are not as “all-knowing” of some things as we think we are.
 
This is a non-answer.

As David has already affirmed, Aquinas has also written confirming ready’s original point, one’s eternity is fixed upon the moment of death.

The Church has also taught that there is no meriting or demeriting after death.
Has the “Church” declared just what constitutes this “death” that you are speaking of?

Could be that God “views” death the way that God views death.

God said a lot when God said, “My Ways are NOT your ways and My Thoughts are NOT your thoughts”.

One of the ways that I look at it is, God Is God and we ain’t.
 
Well I am sorry but I will believe all the priest I work with when they tell me you are flat out wrong.
And who are these priests?
"shelby sun:
I am sorry you put limits on God, who has been revealing Himself to us for the last 2000 years.
1)There have been no NEW revelations regarding God. God revealed Himself definitively in the person of Jesus Christ.

2)The expositions that have deepened our understanding of God’s definitive revelation in Christ Jesus have come from the Holy Spirit through the Church.

You’re retort is an absurd red herring.
I am sorry you are not open to God, but rather choose to worship the Church, which we are not suppose to do. We are only suppose to worship God alone. I hope someday you learn to open your heart and spirit to what God has to teach you.
The same absurd strawman. You show a rather remarkable ignorance to the Church’s teachings as a whole, not to mention your rather disingenuous retorts to myself and others who have provided evidence from the Church’s own teachings.

I suggest that instead of “shooting from the hip” in your ignorance that you stop posting what you don’t understand and instead take the time to educate yourself on the teachings of the Church. You might want to focus on the particular field of ecclesiology.
 
Has the “Church” declared just what constitutes this “death” that you are speaking of?
Yes it has.
Tom Baum:
Could be that God “views” death the way that God views death.
It also could be that you just type words that you have no idea what they mean. You just think that you sound profound in your own inflated self-view.
Tom Baum:
God said a lot when God said, “My Ways are NOT your ways and My Thoughts are NOT your thoughts”.

One of the ways that I look at it is, God Is God and we ain’t.
Again, you’re not saying anything here. You’re not addressing anything in particular. You just think that you sound profound in typing platitudes.

In regards to the subject at hand, your words here simply do not apply, because God has already told us. God has let us in on what He knows. So there is no doubt, ambiguity, mystery, or misunderstanding as to what He has revealed or what is true. God has made His ways our ways and His thoughts our thoughts by sharing His thoughts on this subject with us not only through Christ but through His Church.

I hope that is clear enough for you.
 
And who are these priests?

1)There have been no NEW revelations regarding God. God revealed Himself definitively in the person of Jesus Christ.

2)The expositions that have deepened our understanding of God’s definitive revelation in Christ Jesus have come from the Holy Spirit through the Church.

You’re retort is an absurd red herring.

The same absurd strawman. You show a rather remarkable ignorance to the Church’s teachings as a whole, not to mention your rather disingenuous retorts to myself and others who have provided evidence from the Church’s own teachings.

I suggest that instead of “shooting from the hip” in your ignorance that you stop posting what you don’t understand and instead take the time to educate yourself on the teachings of the Church. You might want to focus on the particular field of ecclesiology.
I am very well educated in the Church’s teaching, but I also know with God all is possible. I am sorry you are to limited to see that. It doesn’t even make sense to believe God has revealed everything to us. You make it sound like the Church is a cult, if they say it, than it is true. How do you explain the contradictions in the Bible. If you don’t know them, than you are the one uneducated. To me, you are the one who sounds ignorant to God’s great capabilities and mercy. So we disagree, but I am not try to convince you of anything and you will never convince me.

My priests are a part of a huge Catholic city who would simply not want to talk to someone that talks like you do. Maybe we are in different parts of the world, but I was raised with a loving God that loves all His children even though they don’t get everything right because we are human and we are all sinners.

I am not Catholic because I am trying to get to heaven because I think their are very few humans who have ever lived that truly deserves to be blessed with that grace and some of them are not even Catholic. I don’t even know a Catholic that was ever taught that only Catholics will be saved and I went through 12 years of Catholic school and have worked at a Catholic school for 20 years.

Please answer this, if you get to heaven and find non Catholic there, could you accept that? lease don’t say that is not possible, because with God anything is possible, plus you would prove there is just no talking to you.
 
Yes it has.

It also could be that you just type words that you have no idea what they mean. You just think that you sound profound in your own inflated self-view.

Again, you’re not saying anything here. You’re not addressing anything in particular. You just think that you sound profound in typing platitudes.

In regards to the subject at hand, your words here simply do not apply, because God has already told us. God has let us in on what He knows. So there is no doubt, ambiguity, mystery, or misunderstanding as to what He has revealed or what is true. God has made His ways our ways and His thoughts our thoughts by sharing His thoughts on this subject with us not only through Christ but through His Church.

I hope that is clear enough for you.
Really?
 
Hello Amandil.
Yes it has.

It also could be that you just type words that you have no idea what they mean. You just think that you sound profound in your own inflated self-view.

Again, you’re not saying anything here. You’re not addressing anything in particular. You just think that you sound profound in typing platitudes.

In regards to the subject at hand, your words here simply do not apply, because God has already told us. God has let us in on what He knows. So there is no doubt, ambiguity, mystery, or misunderstanding as to what He has revealed or what is true. God has made His ways our ways and His thoughts our thoughts by sharing His thoughts on this subject with us not only through Christ but through His Church.

I hope that is clear enough for you.
Go team! :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :bigyikes:

Once again you have revealed the Truth for unbelievers. God bless you man. You’re a fine blessing to His Church!

Glenda
 
One has to wonder what sin you are currently running away from that you are trying to rationalize it.
None, but anyone with a modicum of sense would realise that torture 24/7 for eternity belongs to an evil entity and not God.
Human justice systems bssed upon positive law are necessarily less than God’s. And you cannot get more from less.
I believe your statement above is connected with the teachings of St Thomas Aquinas. However you look at positive law, the absurdity of the punishment in hell is way off the chart for anyone with a modicum of understanding of justice. You don’t have to be a great philosopher or theologian to recognise that.

If Adolf Hitler had not committed suicide, he would have been sentenced to death in the Nuremberg Trials. Had we slowly “roasted” him over a fire, that would have come as close as possible to hell that us mere humans could replicate. We could have him face down towards the flame for a few minutes and then turned him so another part of his body was being burnt keeping a close look on the blisters forming on his skin so as not to kill him too quickly. All the while he would have been screaming in excruciating agony. He could have been kept alive perhaps for several days or longer by giving him fluids. Doing this instead of hanging him would have made us as big a monster as him. Adolf Hitler was responsible for the death and suffering of countless millions of people. However, in your preferred God’s Divine Justice, a soul is tortured 24/7 in a similar manner to the above “roasting” for eternity for just having one mortal sin on its soul. By agreeing with this, you are making God far more monstrous than Adolf Hitler.
And “humane”? You are clearly blind to the recidivism rates in this country. If prison is supposed to rehabilitate offenders but its not, its doing precisely the opposite.
Any prison must be more humane than hell. The recidivism rates for the US have fallen from 70% in 1994 to 43% in 2011. Norway has a prison on a remote island where the prisoners are treated very humanely. The recidivism rates for this prison are 16%. Seems like treating people more humanely works!
Oh I’m tingling with excitement! You’re going to preach again.:rolleyes:
You should be tingling with excitement because you and other people like you need a reminder of who God is.
Two things:
  1. Now you’re saying that what Paul has written and what the Church has definitively taught is inspired by God is now wrong? That it is not the truth that God inspired Paul to write?
Jesus aside, St Paul was the greatest Christian evangelist ever. However, he was a man of his time and not our time. How can you rationalise that it’s the truth when you know that you live in an imperfect universe?
2)“Death is just a part of the natural laws of the universe that we live in.”
** No it is not:

“Because God did not make death, nor does He rejoice in the destruction of the living. For Hecfashioned all things that they might have being…”(Wisdom 1:13-14)
&
“For God formed man to be imperishable; the image of His own nature He made him. But by yhe envy of the devil, death entered the world, and they who are in his possession experience it.” (Wisdom 2:23-24)**
You are therefore negating the big bang theory and that the universe you live in is about 13.8 billion years old and was never perfect. The father of the big bang theory was a Father! Monseigneur Georges Lemaître was a Belgian Catholic priest and scientist who put forward his paper on the big bang and an expanding universe in 1927. Our Church has come a long way since jailing Galileo for heresy.

From your Bible quote: If God didn’t make death, doesn’t rejoice in the destruction of the living and He is more powerful than the devil, why did He allow the envy of the devil to create death?
Your “love” turns loving sinners into loving their sins as well, pretending as if they’re sins aren’t as evil as they really are, and thus making mock of what Jesus suffered in His Passion and death.
How can love for our fellow man lead to making a mockery of what Jesus suffered in His Passion and death? What an absolutely abhorrent thing to say to a fellow Christian. I could reply in kind but will not be baited. You are a Christian and should know that love for your fellow man is the most important lesson that Jesus taught us. If only the World could see this
And spare me. I would love nothing more that all would be saved, but neither am I so soft-headed as to think that it will be.
It is your surly manner, hard-headedness, and disrespectful replies to people’s posts that concern me and other forum members.
Another passage from St Paul:

**"…and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of His Body, the Church." (Colossians 1:24).

(And this is for all of the so-called universalists here.)

If “all are saved” automatically by Christ by His work of Redemption alone, what is meant by Paul’s words that there is something lacking in Christ’s sufferings?

And if there is something lacking in Christ’s sufferings, how is it that all are saved?**

This passage has bothered Christians for a long time. ** The redemptive suffering of Jesus on the cross was complete and there is nothing lacking in Christ’s sufferings. In fact in other letters, St Paul states that the redemptive suffering of Jesus on the cross was complete.** You may find the best answers at:
samstorms.com/all-articles/post/filling-up-the-afflictions-of-christ–1:24-
 
Amandil literally just quoted the Catechism and you’re claiming it’s his opinion? It’s the document that outlines, with pretty specific wording, the doctrinal beliefs of the Catholic Church. The Catechism isn’t something you can dismiss.
How do explain the contradiction in the Bible, like how we are to judge but not judge, Some choose to focus on judging other over focusing on there own own sins, and some focus on God has a loving Father who knows what it is to be a human being living in this world. You sound like you know more than God.
 
How do explain the contradiction in the Bible, like how we are to judge but not judge, Some choose to focus on judging other over focusing on there own own sins, and some focus on God has a loving Father who knows what it is to be a human being living in this world. You sound like you know more than God.
You see contradiction in the Bible between, as you say, how are we to judge others, yet at the same time be commanded not to judge others. The mistake is that you are considering both of these verbs to be identical and used in the same way.

When we are told to admonish the sinner, to correct the mistakes of our brothers and sisters in Christ, so on and so forth, that means that we are to 1) inform them that their actions are sinful, based on our own knowledge handed down through the Church, and 2) to encourage them, like Jesus did, to sin no more. Indeed we are not at any point told to judge our neighbors. No one here has claimed that we should. Nor would they, as that is not part of Church teaching.

We are given the impetus to judge sins. Not sinners mind you. Sins. Objective actions that are contrary to God’s will. Murder is a sin. Murder is a sin because it is not within our rights or our authority to determine the life span of another human being. That power is God’s alone. We, as equals in our humanity, have no right to take the life of another human.

Thus, for one to willingly choose to murder another human would incur the stain of mortal sin on that person’s soul, given that they 1) committed a grave sin (murder), 2) possessed full knowledge that such an action was indeed a grave sin, and 3) committed that action with completely free will on their part (not being forced under pain of death, not acting in self defense in trying to protect their own life from an attacker, not under the effects of a drastically mind-altering substance, etc.). Essentially premeditated murder. That is essentially, from an objective standpoint, always a mortal sin, barring for example a psychological condition that would result in reduced culpability.

However, the fact that murder is a sin is not determined by the potential exceptions, but rather, that for a normally functioning human in a normal situation, murder is contrary to God’s will. Thus we may, should, and do judge that murder is sinful, murder is wrong, murder is unacceptable and merits consequences. However, for a person who has committed murder, it is not within our authority to say that they are in a state of mortal sin and are for certain going to Hell. That would be judging the person, not the sin. That is what we are not supposed to do. We cannot judge another person’s heart. However, we can and should judge their actions. Telling a murderer that murder is wrong, and that they were wrong to commit murder is not judging them. Telling them that because they committed a murder, they are going to Hell, is wrong, because it is not our place to judge that.

TL;DR: We are obligated to judge actions on their sinfulness, as that is how one is able to keep to the Commandments. We do not have the authority to judge another person’s sinfulness, as we cannot know the hearts of our fellow humans. We have the imperative to (charitably) inform others of the objective sinfulness of their actions, because in doing so, we are helping them to grow closer to God. Likewise, they ought to do the same for us, so that we in turn can work with God on fixing our own imperfections.

Some do indeed choose to focus on judging others over working to fix their own sins. Likewise, there are also many who attempt to inform their brother and sisters in Christ when they are in error or committing sin. The second category of people are not judging others at all.
Amandil literally just quoted the Catechism and you’re claiming it’s his opinion? It’s the document that outlines, with pretty specific wording, the doctrinal beliefs of the Catholic Church. The Catechism isn’t something you can dismiss.
I’m kind of concerned the more I think about it. What, exactly, in this post that I wrote previously, communicates that I sound like I know more than God, or even that I think I do? Please point it out to me, because I’m not seeing it at all.

Amandil quoted the CCC. You claimed it was his opinion. I reacted incredulously because the Catechism is the Vatican document that specifically outlines doctrinal beliefs of the Catholic Church. It is not an outline of Amandil’s opinions. It is the document that explains, in detail, what Catholics believe and what being Catholic entails. This is simply a description of what the Catechism is. And in claiming it isn’t something you can dismiss, I mean that the Catechism is not a document that you can claim to be someone’s opinion, as it is not their opinion. It is a detailed description of Catholic beliefs as defined by the Catholic Church itself.
 
I am very well educated in the Church’s teaching, but I also know with God all is possible. I am sorry you are to limited to see that. It doesn’t even make sense to believe God has revealed everything to us. You make it sound like the Church is a cult, if they say it, than it is true. How do you explain the contradictions in the Bible. If you don’t know them, than you are the one uneducated. To me, you are the one who sounds ignorant to God’s great capabilities and mercy. So we disagree, but I am not try to convince you of anything and you will never convince me.
Bear in mind, the Bible you read was compiled by the Roman Catholic Church. The Bibles everyone reads are made up of Jewish texts, many of which contained the prophecies concerning Jesus, and the books of the New Testament, which are the Gospels, which contain Jesus’ life, death, and Resurrection, and then the letters of the Apostles, who lived and traveled with Jesus during His earthly mission. For clarity’s sake, the Word of God is Jesus Himself, not the Bible. The Bible contains the Word of God, because it is the collection of documents that foreshadow Jesus’ coming to save us, and the life of Jesus. If you want to explore the various seeming contradictions within the Bible, ask about them specifically or create a new thread to discuss them. To claim that Amandil is uneducated is obviously false and kind of offensive, especially since that isn’t the topic of the thread.
My priests are a part of a huge Catholic city who would simply not want to talk to someone that talks like you do. Maybe we are in different parts of the world, but I was raised with a loving God that loves all His children even though they don’t get everything right because we are human and we are all sinners.
Every Catholic in this thread was raised with the knowledge that God is all-loving and all-merciful. The very fact that He is so understanding of our shortcomings is exemplified in the fact that He sent His only Son to earth, without sin, to die for our sins, who did so willingly out of love for us. No one has disputed this. For Catholics (and technically everyone else, whether they believe it or not), this is fact.
I am not Catholic because I am trying to get to heaven because I think their are very few humans who have ever lived that truly deserves to be blessed with that grace and some of them are not even Catholic. I don’t even know a Catholic that was ever taught that only Catholics will be saved and I went through 12 years of Catholic school and have worked at a Catholic school for 20 years.
Neither does anyone else in this thread. The Church does not teach that only Catholics will be saved, and I am not sure where you gathered this information. The Church teaches that there is no salvation outside of the Church. I am going to post an excerpt from the Catechism that addresses this very point, with explanation of what it means.
“Outside the Church there is no salvation”
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
You cannot get to Heaven without Jesus. Nowhere is it stated that you cannot get to Heaven unless Catholic. When Amandil claims you are giving strawman arguments and red herrings, this is what he is talking about. No one has claimed any of the things you are trying to refute, yet you are implying that someone did by refuting these things. I’m telling you, if you read the Catechism, all of this information is there.
Please answer this, if you get to heaven and find non Catholic there, could you accept that? lease don’t say that is not possible, because with God anything is possible, plus you would prove there is just no talking to you.
Everyone in this thread would accept that, and rejoice that another soul is in Heaven. No one has, at any point, claimed that this is not possible. If a Catholic says there is no salvation outside of the Church, you need to understand that, in that context, “The Church” refers to EVERYONE who is in communion with God, regardless of whether they were Roman Catholic. Abraham is part of the Church. Moses is part of the Church. The Catholic Church literally translates to the universal Church. Everyone who is in Heaven is part of the Church, because the Church contains everyone who ever is and was, who is in communion with God.
 
Jesus stated the “mission” of His Church very clearly when He said, “Simon, thou art Peter and upon this rock, I will build MY CHURCH and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail agains IT”.

The “mission”, “the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail agains IT”, simple and straight to the point.

The “gates of the netherworld” (hell and spiritual death) shattered, destroyed, in other words, unable to contain anyone.

Jesus also gave us something to ponder concerning SALVATION, “With man it is impossible but with God ALL things are possible”.

Besides the “fact” that it is impossible for man, it also seems very possible for man to come up with all kinds of ways to “prove” this impossibility.

Some people say that I repeat myself, I agree.

I am thankful that I was taught in 2nd grade that God Is Love and I am thankful that I remembered, after meeting God the Father, that this did not make any sense whatsoever to a second grader, me, when this was taught to me.

I was, to put it mildly, quite shocked to find out that the statement, GOD IS LOVE, is quite literal when I met Dad.

I know that it is beyond me to conceive of a Being being Love and I firmly believe that it is beyond any other human being to conceive of a Being being Love.

The fact that God is a Being of Love very much influences my thoughts concerning God.

I am quite simply one of the biggest, if not the biggest, nut cases ever to walk this planet or one who has had some unusual experiences concerning God directly and experiences that God allowed.

I hope and pray that God somehow sees me thru “Our job”.
 
Bear in mind, the Bible you read was compiled by the Roman Catholic Church. The Bibles everyone reads are made up of Jewish texts, many of which contained the prophecies concerning Jesus, and the books of the New Testament, which are the Gospels, which contain Jesus’ life, death, and Resurrection, and then the letters of the Apostles, who lived and traveled with Jesus during His earthly mission. For clarity’s sake, the Word of God is Jesus Himself, not the Bible. The Bible contains the Word of God, because it is the collection of documents that foreshadow Jesus’ coming to save us, and the life of Jesus. If you want to explore the various seeming contradictions within the Bible, ask about them specifically or create a new thread to discuss them. To claim that Amandil is uneducated is obviously false and kind of offensive, especially since that isn’t the topic of the thread.

But it is OK for Amandil to say I am ignorant. That is not offense. If it is off topic talk to Amandil, as I was responding to his post.

Every Catholic in this thread was raised with the knowledge that God is all-loving and all-merciful. The very fact that He is so understanding of our shortcomings is exemplified in the fact that He sent His only Son to earth, without sin, to die for our sins, who did so willingly out of love for us. No one has disputed this. For Catholics (and technically everyone else, whether they believe it or not), this is fact.

Neither does anyone else in this thread. The Church does not teach that only Catholics will be saved, and I am not sure where you gathered this information. The Church teaches that there is no salvation outside of the Church. I am going to post an excerpt from the Catechism that addresses this very point, with explanation of what it means.

I gather this information from numerous post every day on this site where people believe and post just that.

You cannot get to Heaven without Jesus. Nowhere is it stated that you cannot get to Heaven unless Catholic. When Amandil claims you are giving strawman arguments and red herrings, this is what he is talking about. No one has claimed any of the things you are trying to refute, yet you are implying that someone did by refuting these things. I’m telling you, if you read the Catechism, all of this information is there.

Everyone in this thread would accept that, and rejoice that another soul is in Heaven. No one has, at any point, claimed that this is not possible. If a Catholic says there is no salvation outside of the Church, you need to understand that, in that context, “The Church” refers to EVERYONE who is in communion with God, regardless of whether they were Roman Catholic. Abraham is part of the Church. Moses is part of the Church. The Catholic Church literally translates to the universal Church. Everyone who is in Heaven is part of the Church, because the Church contains everyone who ever is and was, who is in communion with God.
 
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