Is it possible that God can relent on the eternal punishment in Hell?

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You wrote, “Free-will is the key to answering the eternities of both Heaven and Hell”

So you consider both heaven and hell to be eternal, as opposed to being everlasting.

Are you saying that time either ends or that God uncreates time?

Lots of people seem to speak of the “end of time” but as far as I know that is not spoken of in the bible, do you or anyone else know where the “end of time” is spoken of except for people pulling it out of thin air?
:confused::confused::confused:

Well… the words ‘eternal’ and ‘everlasting’ are symptoms, so yes, I believe that Heaven and Hell is both eternal and everlasting.

Read post #966 again and you’ll realize why I think free-will is the key to the eternity of the afterlife. The post is quoted below.
:hmmm: Why is Hell eternal?

Hell is eternal because the soul in Hell will never cease to hate God.

Why? Because he or she no longer has the privilege of free-will which he or she has had while on Earth.

If one dies while loving God, he or she will continue to love God in the afterlife.
If one dies while hating God, he or she will continue to hate God in the afterlife.

This same logic is applicable to Heaven. The souls in Heaven have already used their free-will on Earth to accept God. Their free-will is taken away as soon as they beheld the beatific vision of God, the ultimate award. Nothing but love is theirs now.

Free-will is the key to answering the eternities of both Heaven and Hell.
:cool:
My argument stresses that free-will exists only on Earth, and whatever state we die in, we bring with us over to the afterlife. For example, if a person die in a state of holiness, then his/her holiness remains forever.
 
What would the purpose of eternal punishment be for the mere sake of punishment? :confused:

LOVE! ❤️
 
Is it possible for God to eventually relent? Is there some type of stain on these souls that God cannot cleanse or change? Sure, the damned are in Hell due to their own free-will, but that does not mean that they would not repent under the right conditions.

LOVE! ❤️
One’s eternity is fixed at death – we will either end up eternally in heaven or in hell. The Church has always taught this truth, and the truth never changes. God bless you.
 
Yes, Judaism believes in punishment and reward in the afterlife. But in Judaism:

Hell is temporary—not permanent.

Hell is a therapy—not an imprisonment.

Hell is a consequence—not a punishment.

Hell is a washing machine—not a furnace.

Yours truly,
Rabbi Yisroel Cotlar

I’m truly Catholic, but I’m praying that Judaism is correct in this one instance.

LOVE! ❤️
👍👍👍

It is what makes sense to me in light of an omniscient, omnipotent, beneficent, unconditionally loving God.🙂
 
What would the purpose of eternal punishment be for the mere sake of punishment? :confused:

LOVE! ❤️
:tsktsk:
Don’t think about the punishments, think about the choices which lead to those punishments.

The eternity of the afterlife is easy to understand if we eye everything in a way where this Earth is not our true home. That is to say, don’t get too comfortable here. The **real **world lies above.
Yes, Judaism believes in punishment and reward in the afterlife. But in Judaism:

Hell is a consequence—not a punishment.

Hell is a washing machine—not a furnace.

Yours truly,
Rabbi Yisroel Cotlar

I’m truly Catholic, but I’m praying that Judaism is correct in this one instance.

LOVE! ❤️
:confused: How is Hell a washing machine?

That’s right, Hell is a consequential punishment.
 
One’s eternity is fixed at death – we will either end up eternally in heaven or in hell. The Church has always taught this truth, and the truth never changes. God bless you.
Yes, this is the truth when one sees God’s voice as equal to that of our conditionally loving conscience, which is a normal, healthy way of seeing God.

When one sees Love as unconditional, and -as an act of love- forgiveness as unconditional, as demonstrated from the Cross, it is normal and healthy to view that God not only relents but invites, with open arms, like the prodigal son’s father.

To me, both truths are to be respected. No one human knows the whole picture, right?

God Bless your day!
 
One’s eternity is fixed at death – we will either end up eternally in heaven or in hell. The Church has always taught this truth, and the truth never changes. God bless you.
St. Thomas Aquinas once said that we know infinitely less about God than we know of Him. He has yet to real all the truth to us.
 
St. Thomas Aquinas once said that we know infinitely less about God than we know of Him. He has yet to real all the truth to us.
The truth about the eternity of heaven and hell has been revealed. It not one of the unknowns.
 
There plenty of times in the Bible where Christ was loving and forgiving, but of course you need to focus on the judgement part, sad really. I know you don’t care, that is fine, but it certainly doesn’t sound like you have God in your heart. To me you sound like one of those intense Southern Baptist I grew up around.
Wow, talk about prejudicial.

Christ was loving and forgiving to those who were humble and poor in spirit to accept His words as the truth.

And He was as hard-headed and stubborn to those who refused to listen to Him despite the obvious demonstrations of His authority. That’s who our King and Savior is, He is as soft-hearted as He is hard-headed. His words were as hard as diamonds to those who refused to believe in Him.

That’s the problem with this trend of soft sentimentality, people forget that Christ is also the same God and Lord of the Universe, holy and sovereign, who in Christ said in no uncertain terms:

"You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
shelby sun:
I don’t know if your “opinion” is false or not and neither do you, it is simply what you believe to be the truth. Maybe it is, but we certainly don’t have all the truth God is going to share with us. If you think you know everything about the truth then you would be God.
A typical strawman and an ad-hominum. I never said that I have “all the truth”. We DO have what has been revealed by Christ, which is sufficient in regards to the subject of this thread.

My so-called (by you)“opinion” is not my opinion but is the teaching of holy mother Church.

And the Church teaches the truth of God, it has that authority.

So yes what the Church teaches is absolutely true, no ambiguity about it.

Any opinion that contradicts the Church is necessarily and objectively false. The Church is not protestantism were believers can just decide for themselves what to believe and what to ignore.
shelby sun:
It sounds like you feel the needs to know everything, maybe out of fear, control, to feel superior.
Yes, you would think that, wouldn’t you?

Since you have no real argument, you just attack them personally. Casting aspersions where you will and attacking my motives and faith.

Very “Christ-like” indeed.:rolleyes:
shelby sun:
Whatever it is, it does make you sound like you have God in your heart only in your head and words. You won’t draw many people in sounding as you do.🤷
I’ll draw those who have humility and recognize the truth.

Those who are more bent on their own subjective views and opinions over and against the truth will act pretty much like you have.

Now do you have anything useful to contribute to the debate at hand or are you just going to continue to throw one red herring after another in attempting to hijack this thread?
 
St. Thomas Aquinas once said that we know infinitely less about God than we know of Him. He has yet to real all the truth to us.
This is a non-answer.

As David has already affirmed, Aquinas has also written confirming ready’s original point, one’s eternity is fixed upon the moment of death.

The Church has also taught that there is no meriting or demeriting after death.
 
Hello Arte.
…My personal belief is that there are ZERO people in hell because I firmly believe that hell does not exist. My disbelief in hell is intensified every time I read replies from fellow Catholics on this forum who I can only describe as Conservative Catholics. I mean no disrespect to them by using this description. They believe all of the doctrine of our Church. They also believe that the Bible is inerrant…
Please don’t blame me or anyone else for your lack of belief in Hell. If your stubbornness of heart is intensified every time you read the replies of others who don’t share in your disbelief, that is not because we are “conservative Catholics,” that is because you are coming here to discuss what you don’t believe in and why and not to gain back what you may have lost to your un-belief. Some come here to have the doubts dispelled. Others come here to show off what they don’t believe that they are supposed to believe as Catholics. That is their fault not mine. I am not responsible for your lack of belief Arte, you are. That is part and parcel of being all grown up now.

Glenda
 
Hello Shelby.
That is your opinion, one which I fully disagree with. I appreciate what Tom has to say, you on the other hand come across in a very ugly, non God like way, so You seem the one that has nothing worth listening to.
If you are so “offended” by Amandil’s style, why not simply ignore his posts instead of insisting that he comply with your ideas of how persons should think and behave to qualify for “god-like.” Judge not lest ye be judged.

Glenda
 
Hello Shelby.
There plenty of times in the Bible where Christ was loving and forgiving, but of course you need to focus on the judgement part, sad really. I know you don’t care, that is fine, but it certainly doesn’t sound like you have God in your heart. To me you sound like one of those intense Southern Baptist I grew up around.

I don’t know if your “opinion” is false or not and neither do you, it is simply what you believe to be the truth. Maybe it is, but we certainly don’t have all the truth God is going to share with us. If you think you know everything about the truth then you would be God.

It sounds like you feel the needs to know everything, maybe out of fear, control, to feel superior. Whatever it is, it does make you sound like you have God in your heart only in your head and words. You won’t draw many people in sounding as you do.🤷
Amandil’s faithfulness is obvious to many here, both those who respond, and those who don’t. His scholarship also shows. He deserves respect yet your comments in this particular post are rude, judgmental and unkind. You resort to insults with the comparison to “Southern Baptists” you spent your childhood with. And your comments about God being in his heart is your attempt to cut with your tongue to his heart. You cannot judge anyone’s heart, yet simply because you chose to take Tom’s “side” against Amandil’s, you feel a need to hurl some insults at Amandil to show support for Tom. This is not apologetic, but a demonstration of vitriolic replies where genuine concern over falsehood is lacking.

Glenda
 
Hello Shelby.

If you are so “offended” by Amandil’s style, why not simply ignore his posts instead of insisting that he comply with your ideas of how persons should think and behave to qualify for “god-like.” Judge not lest ye be judged.

Glenda
For having to suffer the attacks on the Church from the likes of arte and Tom Baum I think that I’m being rather kind and generous compared to what saints such as Irenaeus and Jerome have said when confronted with such heresy as they are putting forth.

Apparently Shelby is somewhat ignorant in regards to what Jerome has written against those who spoke against Mary and her perpetual virginity.
 
St. Thomas Aquinas once said that we know infinitely less about God than we know of Him. He has yet to real all the truth to us.
What I said in my post is the Church’s official teaching,and it is100% true, despite us knowing infinitely less about God than we do know. The Church speaks for Jesus Christ (“He who hears you hears me.”), so let us not water down her teaching. Please do not try to confuse the issue here – what I have said in my previous post is basic Catholic doctrine. God bless you.
 
What I said in my post is the Church’s official teaching,and it is100% true, despite us knowing infinitely less about God than we do know. The Church speaks for Jesus Christ (“He who hears you hears me.”), so let us not water down her teaching. Please do not try to confuse the issue here – what I have said in my previous post is basic Catholic doctrine. God bless you.
I am sorry if you are confused. I am also sorry that you are not open to what God still has to reveal to us or teach us. There is still so much wisdom and faith for God to teach us when the time is right. I find it sad when people think God’s wisdom to us is over and there is no more wonder for Him to reveal.

You simply do not know what is 100% true, only God knows that, and there is much more to come. Hopefully someday you can be open to it. I think it will be wonderful!
 
I am sorry if you are confused. I am also sorry that you are not open to what God still has to reveal to us or teach us. There is still so much wisdom and faith for God to teach us when the time is right. I find it sad when people think God’s wisdom to us is over and there is no more wonder for Him to reveal.

You simply do not know what is 100% true, only God knows that, and there is much more to come. Hopefully someday you can be open to it. I think it will be wonderful!
It is you who are confused:

CCC
66 “The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.
 
It is you who are confused:

CCC
66 “The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.
Again your opinion, not fact!
 
Again your opinion, not fact!
I’m glad to see that it is your view that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is merely an “opinion” and not “…a sure norm for teaching the Catholic Faith” and “a full and complete exposition of Catholic Doctrine…” as per Saint Pope John Paul II.

Very telling.
 
Again your opinion, not fact!
Amandil literally just quoted the Catechism and you’re claiming it’s his opinion? It’s the document that outlines, with pretty specific wording, the doctrinal beliefs of the Catholic Church. The Catechism isn’t something you can dismiss.
 
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