Is it possible that God can relent on the eternal punishment in Hell?

[Nate123]

Is it possible for God to eventually relent? Is there some type of stain on these souls that God cannot cleanse or change? Sure, the damned are in Hell due to their own free-will, but that does not mean that they would not repent under the right conditions.

LOVE!

Hell is not something imposed by God. It is self initiated rejection of God. God doesn’t punish anyone. The choice of the demons and ultimately if some humans choose hell, it is made is full awareness of the choice and it is one that cannot be undone.

"It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."27 (CCC 393)

If it were possible to repent than God would give them the grace. It is not possible and so hell is eternal. But we can believe:

"Here I was taught by the grace of God that I should steadfastly keep me in the faith. . . and that at the same time I should take my stand on and earnestly believe in what our Lord shewed in this time - that ‘all manner [of] thing shall be well.’"183 (CCC 313)

Hell is eternal but we can believe “all manner of things shall be well.” Dame Julian of Norwich. How this is done, no one knows except for God.

 

[arte]

First of all we must understand that there is no such place as Hell. What human being would torture someone? Only a very sick, evil, depraved and sadistic person would torture someone. I would hope God is better than the above description! We are also told that Hell is torture 24/7 for ETERNITY. Now we are talking about an extremely sick and evil being that would do something like this. But wait, it gets worse. The vast majority of the human race is going to Hell. But wait, it gets even worse. The “inmates” of Hell are not just the very worst dregs of mankind (who also should not be in a Hell for eternity), they are mostly people who have unconfessed mortal sins when they die or do not believe in Jesus as their Messiah or God. These people would have led everyday normal lives. They didn’t kill anyone, torture anyone, rob banks etc etc. They worked, raised families, were kind decent ordinary people - they live next door to you! God has immeasurable mercy and love for us - far more than any amount we can imagine. So how can He possibly put anyone in a place like Hell for one second let alone an ETERNITY? You cannot say that we have free will with regards to Heaven or Hell. If I hold a gun to your head and ask you for your wallet/handbag - do you have free will? I can understand Purgatory as a place separated from God’s love but I firmly believe that ALL of us go there. Our length of sentence there equates to the level and number of sins on our soul. I am a practising Catholic. The Bible is not 100% inerrant. Use your own mind and think logically as a Christian about what is written in it.

 

[Starrsmother]

First of all we must understand that there is no such place as Hell. What human being would torture someone? Only a very sick, evil, depraved and sadistic person would torture someone. I would hope God is better than the above description! We are also told that Hell is torture 24/7 for ETERNITY. Now we are talking about an extremely sick and evil being that would do something like this. But wait, it gets worse. The vast majority of the human race is going to Hell. But wait, it gets even worse. The “inmates” of Hell are not just the very worst dregs of mankind (who also should not be in a Hell for eternity), they are mostly people who have unconfessed mortal sins when they die or do not believe in Jesus as their Messiah or God. These people would have led everyday normal lives. They didn’t kill anyone, torture anyone, rob banks etc etc. They worked, raised families, were kind decent ordinary people - they live next door to you! God has immeasurable mercy and love for us - far more than any amount we can imagine. So how can He possibly put anyone in a place like Hell for one second let alone an ETERNITY? You cannot say that we have free will with regards to Heaven or Hell. If I hold a gun to your head and ask you for your wallet/handbag - do you have free will? I can understand Purgatory as a place separated from God’s love but I firmly believe that ALL of us go there. Our length of sentence there equates to the level and number of sins on our soul. I am a practising Catholic. The Bible is not 100% inerrant. Use your own mind and think logically as a Christian about what is written in it.

If you are a practicing Catholic who doesn’t believe in hell, you have some serious issues you should discuss with your priest–because the truth is you aren’t Catholic!

God wants us all to go to heaven. However, our life on earth is not The Good Ship Lollipop! If we thumb our nose at God by not following His rules, why should we expect that we deserve heaven? God did NOT even HAVE to make our souls immortal. He gave us a gift that He gave no other animal on this planet. How we use that gift and where we spend eternity is up to us. I hope everyone goes to heaven–but I admit that I think Hitler and Jeffrey Dahmer may have, as we say in Texas, "some big time ‘splaining’ to do to our Heavenly Father!

 

[glendab]

Hello Arte

First of all we must understand that there is no such place as Hell. What human being would torture someone? Only a very sick, evil, depraved and sadistic person would torture someone. I would hope God is better than the above description! We are also told that Hell is torture 24/7 for ETERNITY. Now we are talking about an extremely sick and evil being that would do something like this. But wait, it gets worse. The vast majority of the human race is going to Hell. But wait, it gets even worse. The “inmates” of Hell are not just the very worst dregs of mankind (who also should not be in a Hell for eternity), they are mostly people who have unconfessed mortal sins when they die or do not believe in Jesus as their Messiah or God. These people would have led everyday normal lives. They didn’t kill anyone, torture anyone, rob banks etc etc. They worked, raised families, were kind decent ordinary people - they live next door to you! God has immeasurable mercy and love for us - far more than any amount we can imagine. So how can He possibly put anyone in a place like Hell for one second let alone an ETERNITY? You cannot say that we have free will with regards to Heaven or Hell. If I hold a gun to your head and ask you for your wallet/handbag - do you have free will? I can understand Purgatory as a place separated from God’s love but I firmly believe that ALL of us go there. Our length of sentence there equates to the level and number of sins on our soul. I am a practising Catholic. The Bible is not 100% inerrant. Use your own mind and think logically as a Christian about what is written in it.

How can you speak such nonsense and claim to be Catholic? We believe Hell is real.

As for you notion that God is evil because there is a Hell, it is almost a blasphemy to say that in the first place, and in the second place, Hell is a choice some make and yes, if you die with unconfessed mortal sins on your poor soul no matter how much good stuff you did, you will go to Hell. To deny the reality of Hell is to deny something we believe as Catholics. You need to pray about it and work to accept all the Church teaches or you are simply picking and choosing and might as well be Protestant.

Glenda

 

[GLam8833]

I must confess that I am disturbed
that you brought this up, but that
being said, Jesus Himself clearly
points out that 1. there is a hell
and 2. it is eternal.
“for God so loved the world that
He gave His only begotten Son
that whosoever believes in Him
should not perish, but have ever-
lasting life.” Jn 3:16
The Bolded text of the scripture high-
lights what I am talking about, to
perish is to die, spiritually.
And, If there is eternal life, there is
eternal death.

 

[John_Martin]

Both Hell and Purgatory are places of being without satisfaction of what you desire or love.
They are places of “punishment” where you are restrained from any ability to unite with what you desire (much as a person in prison is restrained from the ability to walk freely around the streets of his home town).
The person in Purgatory has one love and desire of union - to be united to God and to His Christ. And satisfaction of this desire for union with God is held back for a time, to return “past improper satisfactions” that the person had enjoyed in sins of satisfying himself. His heart is set on being with his God, and once he has endured this “temporal disappointment of waiting” he will see his God. And he will see his God without bringing along the “wealth of past improper satisfaction memories”.

The person in Hell has one love and desire of union (though each individual may have different loves) - it may be to have the desire of good tastes satisfied, or to have sexual satisfaction, or to have power over everyone encountered, or it may be to have monetary wealth that would end all need of desire. And satisfaction of this desire will never be satisfied because these things desired are temporal, and the person has left the temporal world. This person in hell has no thought of union with God being a desirable thing, and so does not want this and therefore will not “repent” while in Hell. His whole focus will be on wanting something temporal as if it were eternal good, and being eternally disappointed and weeping and gnashing of teeth.

John Martin

 

[John_Martin]

First of all we must understand that there is no such place as Hell. What human being would torture someone? Only a very sick, evil, depraved and sadistic person would torture someone. I would hope God is better than the above description! We are also told that Hell is torture 24/7 for ETERNITY. Now we are talking about an extremely sick and evil being that would do something like this. But wait, it gets worse. The vast majority of the human race is going to Hell. But wait, it gets even worse. The “inmates” of Hell are not just the very worst dregs of mankind (who also should not be in a Hell for eternity), they are mostly people who have unconfessed mortal sins when they die or do not believe in Jesus as their Messiah or God. These people would have led everyday normal lives. They didn’t kill anyone, torture anyone, rob banks etc etc. They worked, raised families, were kind decent ordinary people - they live next door to you! God has immeasurable mercy and love for us - far more than any amount we can imagine. So how can He possibly put anyone in a place like Hell for one second let alone an ETERNITY? You cannot say that we have free will with regards to Heaven or Hell. If I hold a gun to your head and ask you for your wallet/handbag - do you have free will? I can understand Purgatory as a place separated from God’s love but I firmly believe that ALL of us go there. Our length of sentence there equates to the level and number of sins on our soul. I am a practising Catholic. The Bible is not 100% inerrant. Use your own mind and think logically as a Christian about what is written in it.

Actually, you are not a practicing Catholic if you are abandoning your pledge to be faithful to the teachings of the Church as True. Practicing Catholics are those who can be relied upon to proclaim the Truth as delivered to us by the Apostles, therefore as delivered to us by Jesus, therefore as delivered to us by God.

It is actually private minds interpreting what they read in the Bible who are errant.

We, as faithful Catholics, proclaiming what was delivered to us only, will be found on the last day to have spoken the truth to the world. We use our own minds to understand what the Church teaches us, but never to denounce what the Church and the Bible teach us, therefore we use our reasoning to understand the reality and eternity of Hell, but we never declare we are wiser than the Church or the Scripture or Jesus where we say “you are wrong, there is no Hell”. Never.

John Martin

 

[Robert_Sock]

Actually, you are not a practicing Catholic if you are abandoning your pledge to be faithful to the teachings of the Church as True. Practicing Catholics are those who can be relied upon to proclaim the Truth as delivered to us by the Apostles, therefore as delivered to us by Jesus, therefore as delivered to us by God.

It is actually private minds interpreting what they read in the Bible who are errant.

We, as faithful Catholics, proclaiming what was delivered to us only, will be found on the last day to have spoken the truth to the world. We use our own minds to understand what the Church teaches us, but never to denounce what the Church and the Bible teach us, therefore we use our reasoning to understand the reality and eternity of Hell, but we never declare we are wiser than the Church or the Scripture or Jesus where we say “you are wrong, there is no Hell”. Never.

John Martin

This is off the topic, but there must be many who delves into religion and disagrees with Church to at least some rather small degree. For example, the Church teaches that the body and soul are inseparable, but like in Judaism, I tend to believe that they can be. More specifically, from an earthly perspective I believe they are inseparable, but not from a heavenly perspective (indeed, it seems to me that the Church also teaches that when we die, just our soul will go Heaven, Purgatory or Hell). I feel a bit troubled because I cannot change the disagreement that I experience; I can tell myself that I agree with everything, but deep down inside I still feel I’m in some disagreement. I never discussed this with a priest, but was wondering if you or anybody else thought that I am sinning?

LOVE!

 

[GLam8833]

Dear Robert, friend of CAForums, from reading a number of your
posts, I gather that you are incensed at 1. the injustice in
the world CAUSED BY ignorance of the majority of Catholics
2. the seemingly disjunction between what the Catholic Church
teaches and what it practices or what you believe it practices.

Well, Robert, “the law shall go out from Jerusalem” in the last
days and that law is the law of the early Church, which was
based in Jerusalem! Those who disobey the Church is not
rebelling against the teachings of MAN but God!
What are you trying to accomplish by crying out “INJUSTICE”,
hoping Catholics will come to their senses and give to the poor and
live a morally acceptable life?
Do you teach others and fail to teach yourself? I say this in
love, I myself have on occasion caught myself in that rut!

 

[John_Martin]

This is off the topic, but there must be many who delves into religion and disagrees with Church to at least some rather small degree. For example, the Church teaches that the body and soul are inseparable, but like in Judaism, I tend to believe that they can be. More specifically, from an earthly perspective I believe they are inseparable, but not from a heavenly perspective (indeed, it seems to me that the Church also teaches that when we die, just our soul will go Heaven, Purgatory or Hell). I feel a bit troubled because I cannot change the disagreement that I experience; I can tell myself that I agree with everything, but deep down inside I still feel I’m in some disagreement. I never discussed this with a priest, but was wondering if you or anybody else thought that I am sinning?

LOVE!

Souls are incomplete, in Purgatory, or in Hell, or in Heaven. Human Souls need their human bodies to be complete, to be able to interact properly. That is the reason we declare, “I believe in the resurrection of the dead and the life everlasting”. That is also why, in the book of Revelation the Saints cry to God, “How long?” They are in Heaven with God, but they are not complete until the final judgment.
There would have been no need for Jesus’ resurrection if the soul made a complete human being, but it does not. And we will be like him, not when we die, but when our bodies are raised on the last day. Our souls will be consoled in heaven in the presence of God, but we will not be able in a human way to lift up our hands in joy or shout with a voice in praise “Hallelujah to our King” because we will not yet have our hands or tongue until that final day.

Sin comes in refusing to believe your teachers, not in having trouble understanding what they are saying. The magisterium is alive today, and can talk to us when we have a hard time understanding, and keep rephrasing what it says in explanation of the received teachings until some single explanation finally makes it real to us.

John Martin

 

[Aloysium]

. . . the Church teaches that the body and soul are inseparable, . . . I tend to believe that they can be. . . .

To believe this, I would imagine that you have a sense of what it would be like to be dead, without a body.
It is like something on the tip of the tongue, that I personally cannot grasp; I cannot separate my existence from its being in this world.
My body, in spite of the corruption that it has already suffered, will still have to be wrenched from me in my last hour, I suppose.

This may be related to the OP:
One way to resolve the pain and suffering of death is to consider the reality of eternal life.
If this is the source of one’s belief, the escape from the reality of death, the problem remains, having only shifted to a fear of hell.

 

[tonyrey]

To believe this, I would imagine that you have a sense of what it would be like to be dead, without a body.
It is like something on the tip of the tongue, that I personally cannot grasp; I cannot separate my existence from its being in this world.
My body, in spite of the corruption that it has already suffered, will still have to be wrenched from me in my last hour, I suppose.

This may be related to the OP:
One way to resolve the pain and suffering of death is to consider the reality of eternal life.
If this is the source of one’s belief, the escape from the reality of death, the problem remains, having only shifted to a fear of hell.

That is an inescapable fact. The only way to rid oneself of fear is to become more intensely aware of God’s infinite mercy and love.

Nothing can separate us from Our Lord except ourselves.

 

[arte]

Many thanks to the forum members who have replied to my post that Hell does not exist. I will try my best to answer all replies together in as short a paragraph as possible. I have spoken to my Priest about my disbelief in Hell. He lent me a book titled “Good Goats – Healing our image of God” by Catholic authors Dennis Linn, Sheila Fabricant Linn and Matthew Linn. This book clearly states that there is no-one in Hell and that Hell does not exist. Therefore, I was left with no illusions as to where my Priest’s belief in Hell lay. “Healing our image of God” is a very important part of the book. We have all been brought up on an image of God that is vengeful, wrathful, suffering from megalomania and downright bloodthirsty. And, I am not being blasphemous when I say the above. It is the truth. You only have to read the Old Testament to see this image of God played out very clearly. This is not the correct image of God. I recommend the above book to you all, any Christian, and anyone who does not believe in God. Life is not a “good ship lollipop”. Instead, life is full of suffering but I do understand what is meant by this statement from one of the replies. At the end of the day, we do have to front up to God for our sins. Thinking as a human, we usually think of punishment and reward. Purgatory is punishment for our sins but Purgatory has a finite time period. As for not being a practising Catholic because I do not believe in hell, I have met many Catholics who do not believe in Hell including a Catholic nun. My priest’s views are obvious from the book choice above. They are all still practising Catholics. As for being a Protestant for not believing in Hell, does that mean that Protestants do not believe in Hell? Also, Protestants are Christians so I am perplexed by 2 of the replies which intimated that Protestants were somehow inferior to us Catholics and that I should be a Protestant. May I quote from one reply: “We, as faithful Catholics, proclaiming what was delivered to us only, will be found on the last day to have spoken the truth to the world”. What was delivered to us only? Surely, all Christians proclaim the Good News of Jesus and what ever was delivered to us was delivered to them also. We often have joint Christian sermons with our neighbouring Anglican church. On Palm Sunday, we meet together in the village square carrying palm fronds. Our Priest does a reading and the Anglican Vicar (a woman) does a reading. This all happens beside a large coffee shop where we surround people having a latte outside. What a wonderful way of advertising our faith as Christians. I still firmly believe that our Catholic faith is the best branch of Christianity being able to trace our roots back to the very first Christians. Unfortunately, the Bible (all versions) is errant and also contradicts itself in several areas. I am not saying that it is riddled with errors. It is and always will be our main source of reference for our religion and Christianity as a whole. I completely agree that the reader can be errant as well. One can see this by the many one man band ridiculous off shoot churches. “Yes, they fall under the Protestant umbrella somehow” but the larger Protestant denominations denounce them. One or possibly 2 replies mentioned Jesus’ teachings on Hell. I do find Jesus’ teachings concerning the afterlife very unsettling and I constantly pray for guidance on this issue. Like all Christians, Jesus is my moral compass and I am having difficulty aligning my firm belief in no Hell with Jesus’ teachings on the subject. We have to think through the matter of Hell very carefully. What kind of God would create several billion human beings knowing full well that He is going to put the vast majority of them in a lake of fire for ETERNITY? I will never accept that people put themselves into this horrendous position. God created Hell and it is God that puts people in Hell. I am sure any person actually standing on the abyss of Hell (if it exists) would not choose to be there. If you believe in Hell, you also have to accept that children are there as well - maybe your own! What about the millions of Hindus (and billions of people from other religions) who are brought up in their culture to follow their particular religion. They believe that their religion is the true religion – just as we believe that our religion is the true religion. Obviously, they go to Hell as well!

 

[John_Martin]

What was delivered to us by Jesus, by the Apostles, by the Church is that Hell is.
Protesting that Hell “is not” is protesting against what was delivered to us. Learning that “Hell is not” from one protesting makes on an inherited protester.

As Catholics, we know and confess that all the Baptized (in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit) are Catholic - fellow citizens with us in the Kingdom established by God and his Christ. It is our rebirth as new creatures, as his People.

Some find the teachings of the Church too difficult, find subordination to a Lord or his Vicar too constraining, and want to form the Kingdom by self-determination rather than by the received order and received teachings. So they protest and separate. They carry off the Scriptures with them and in their supposed superior reasoning rip out seven books that offend their reasoning powers. Because they all have individual reasoning powers which they believe are superior, they split apart from each other, also.

But, like it or not, they are Catholic, and need to return home to unity of the People. With the People is the fullness of Grace, rather than a shell of doctrinal positioning. With the People Justification means being made Just, being made Good so that “not guilty” is the truth, rather than simply a judicial ruling of “not guilty” over a person who actually is guilty.
With the People Grace is a substantial change within the soul worked by God, rather than just an emotion of favor within the eyes of God. That is what they need to return to, so that salvation is a substantial reality with them rather than an intellectual pursuit.

John Martin

 

[meltzerboy]

Many thanks to the forum members who have replied to my post that Hell does not exist. I will try my best to answer all replies together in as short a paragraph as possible. I have spoken to my Priest about my disbelief in Hell. He lent me a book titled “Good Goats – Healing our image of God” by Catholic authors Dennis Linn, Sheila Fabricant Linn and Matthew Linn. This book clearly states that there is no-one in Hell and that Hell does not exist. Therefore, I was left with no illusions as to where my Priest’s belief in Hell lay. “Healing our image of God” is a very important part of the book. We have all been brought up on an image of God that is vengeful, wrathful, suffering from megalomania and downright bloodthirsty. And, I am not being blasphemous when I say the above. It is the truth. You only have to read the Old Testament to see this image of God played out very clearly. This is not the correct image of God. I recommend the above book to you all, any Christian, and anyone who does not believe in God. Life is not a “good ship lollipop”. Instead, life is full of suffering but I do understand what is meant by this statement from one of the replies. At the end of the day, we do have to front up to God for our sins. Thinking as a human, we usually think of punishment and reward. Purgatory is punishment for our sins but Purgatory has a finite time period. As for not being a practising Catholic because I do not believe in hell, I have met many Catholics who do not believe in Hell including a Catholic nun. My priest’s views are obvious from the book choice above. They are all still practising Catholics. As for being a Protestant for not believing in Hell, does that mean that Protestants do not believe in Hell? Also, Protestants are Christians so I am perplexed by 2 of the replies which intimated that Protestants were somehow inferior to us Catholics and that I should be a Protestant. May I quote from one reply: “We, as faithful Catholics, proclaiming what was delivered to us only, will be found on the last day to have spoken the truth to the world”. What was delivered to us only? Surely, all Christians proclaim the Good News of Jesus and what ever was delivered to us was delivered to them also. We often have joint Christian sermons with our neighbouring Anglican church. On Palm Sunday, we meet together in the village square carrying palm fronds. Our Priest does a reading and the Anglican Vicar (a woman) does a reading. This all happens beside a large coffee shop where we surround people having a latte outside. What a wonderful way of advertising our faith as Christians. I still firmly believe that our Catholic faith is the best branch of Christianity being able to trace our roots back to the very first Christians. Unfortunately, the Bible (all versions) is errant and also contradicts itself in several areas. I am not saying that it is riddled with errors. It is and always will be our main source of reference for our religion and Christianity as a whole. I completely agree that the reader can be errant as well. One can see this by the many one man band ridiculous off shoot churches. “Yes, they fall under the Protestant umbrella somehow” but the larger Protestant denominations denounce them. One or possibly 2 replies mentioned Jesus’ teachings on Hell. I do find Jesus’ teachings concerning the afterlife very unsettling and I constantly pray for guidance on this issue. Like all Christians, Jesus is my moral compass and I am having difficulty aligning my firm belief in no Hell with Jesus’ teachings on the subject. We have to think through the matter of Hell very carefully. What kind of God would create several billion human beings knowing full well that He is going to put the vast majority of them in a lake of fire for ETERNITY? I will never accept that people put themselves into this horrendous position. God created Hell and it is God that puts people in Hell. I am sure any person actually standing on the abyss of Hell (if it exists) would not choose to be there. If you believe in Hell, you also have to accept that children are there as well - maybe your own! What about the millions of Hindus (and billions of people from other religions) who are brought up in their culture to follow their particular religion. They believe that their religion is the true religion – just as we believe that our religion is the true religion. Obviously, they go to Hell as well!

No kind of benevolent G-d would put children in hell for eternity, and no kind of rational G-d would put people who believe their religion is true and practice its moral tenets in hell either. In Judaism, we do not believe that these instances occur since it is neither justifiable nor merciful for G-d to do so.

 

[davidv]

No kind of benevolent G-d would put children in hell for eternity, and no kind of rational G-d would put people who believe their religion is true and practice its moral tenets in hell either. In Judaism, we do not believe that these instances occur since it is neither justifiable nor merciful for G-d to do so.

Since Church teaching does not say that God puts people in hell, the relevance of the above is not clear. One cannot, based on the above, conclude that hell does not exist, nor that it will be empty.

 

[meltzerboy]

Since Church teaching does not say that God puts people in hell, the relevance of the above is not clear. One cannot, based on the above, conclude that hell does not exist, nor that it will be empty.

I was simply responding to the last two statements of the OP’s post. I did not mean to infer anything about Church teaching nor that hell does not exist.

 

[Aloysium]

Mark 25: 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. . . .

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

I think this is very clear. There is a moral order to the universe.
Evil had the upper hand in this world until Jesus came to free us.
While evil remains at large, at the end of time, all will be set right.

I don’t understand how people have a problem with this.
It seems to me that it is not so much a matter of healing our image of God, which could mean simply imagining something more to our liking,
but rather growing in our relationship with Him.
Other deficits would include our understanding human nature, what suffering is all about and what it means to be eternal beings in heaven and in hell

 

[davidv]

I was simply responding to the last two statements of the OP’s post. I did not mean to infer anything about Church teaching nor that hell does not exist.

OK. That was not clear in my reading.

 

[Rodb]

Just a thought on a different angle. Much of the debate concerns not whether hell exists, but whether it lasts forever. No one is saying that people should not be punished for their sins, but that the punishment should be just, and that sins committed in time could not be justly punished for eternity. One post said they had problems with Jesus’s teaching on hell, because He spoke of eternal fire, etc. I think we are oversimplifying “eternity.” In “eternity” “time will be no more.” Therefore, the concept of “forever” becomes meaningless. I have thought about that, and I think that when Jesus talks of eternity, He is simply saying another state of existence, without time. I don’t think we can comprehend this very well, if at all, yet, but by definition hell cannot last “forever” if it exists in “eternity.” Eternity is just where it exists and implies no length of punishment.
Also, by the way, did not Origen believe that all souls would be saved, and although this was declared heresy by the Church, he was still declared a saint by that same Church.
Also, btw, the Thomas Aquinas quote does not unequivocally say that souls will remain in hell forever, but that without the grace and mercy of God they will, and need I remind one and all, the Bible states over and over that God’s mercy endures “forever.” It does not say it endures until we die.
For probably the best take on this subject I have seen, check out anything by Robin Parry.