Is it possible to become filthy rich without losing your soul?

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CHRISTINE77 said:
I don’t envy the rich. I think people who have too many possessions are burdened by them. They worry about the future more. They worry about their possessions and their finances. If you don’t have too much, (I’m not talking about absolute poverty), you are more carefree, and can focus on the good things in life - like God, and nature, creativity, other people, etc.
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If you don’t envy them, why do you think people who have too many possessions are burdened by them and worry about the future more? This clearly shows you have a negative impression of them, and consider them different from other people.

Why not just think about them like you think about everyone else?
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
Because they aren’t like everybody else!
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How do you know that?

You might just as well say Blacks, Catholic, or Jews “aren’t like anyone else” – and that justifies claiming they commit all sorts of sins.
 
So I take it, you would not agree with Jesus, that the love of money is the root of all evil?
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
So I take it, you would not agree with Jesus, that the love of money is the root of all evil?
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I agree with Jesus, I just don’t agree with you.

I don’t agree the rich are “different” – in fact, if you read the primary study or the rich, The Millionaire Next Door, you can see how undifferent they are. To the extent they are different, it is in doing those things most of us consider good – for example, not getting divorced. Not building a lavish home, but living in the same home they bought early in life and in which they raised their children. Not spending lavishly, but investing. Not being lazy, but working – working harder than most of us.

Don’t let envy convince you that someone who has more than you have is somehow evil.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
I thought it was “the love of money is the root of all evil”.

Yes, I think that people who focus on making money are less focused on helping their neighbors, or glorifying God. But sometimes, rich people give a lot of money to the poor. I don’t think it’s only because of a tax break. I think they are generally thinking of others in a good way. Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are examples of those kind of men.

Generally though, if people are too materialistic, they aren’t focusing on other people who they could help out. They basically are driven by greed.
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You’re right, it is “love” though I would argue that to love something is to imply one is devoted to it and in active persuit of it. Still you are correct I misquoted there.
 
Yes that is true of some of them. For example, Bill Gates really had the love of computers, not money. He just became rich. Also, although Warren Buffet loves to play with money, he does not live like he is filthy. But, hello, many rich people get divorces, take drugs, etc. (look at Hollywood)! They have more temptations than the average joe.

It’s the love of money, not being rich, that is bad. I am not envious. I do not worship money. However, I think people who are filthy rich should try to share their wealth with less fortunate people. (Such as Bill Gates and Warren Buffet do!)
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
Yes that is true of some of them. For example, Bill Gates really had the love of computers, not money. He just became rich. Also, although Warren Buffet loves to play with money, he does not live like he is filthy. But, hello, many rich people get divorces, take drugs, etc. (look at Hollywood)! They have more temptations than the average joe.
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Go to Phillips County, Arkansas, the poorest county in the United States, and I will show you more people who get divorces (or who never bother to marry before having children), who take drugs, and commit crimes than all the Hollywood types put together. If that’s not enough, go into the slums of any big city, and you will see the same.
CHRISTINE77 said:
It’s the love of money, not being rich, that is bad. I am not envious. I do not worship money. However, I think people who are filthy rich should try to share their wealth with less fortunate people. (Such as Bill Gates and Warren Buffet do!)
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Where’s your evidence they don’t share their wealth?

And where do you give them credit for creating the jobs the rest of need to live?
 
vern_humphrey said:
I agree with Jesus, I just don’t agree with you.

I don’t agree the rich are “different” – in fact, if you read the primary study or the rich, The Millionaire Next Door, you can see how undifferent they are. To the extent they are different, it is in doing those things most of us consider good – for example, not getting divorced. Not building a lavish home, but living in the same home they bought early in life and in which they raised their children. Not spending lavishly, but investing. Not being lazy, but working – working harder than most of us.

Don’t let envy convince you that someone who has more than you have is somehow evil.
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So again what did Jesus mean when he said that it easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven? Our Lord seems to be seeing something very different between the rich and the poor. What would that be?

To me that would be the rool of the OP. Christ and the Apostles seemed to think that at the very least the rich needed to be more careful than the “average” person. Is this universal not necessarily. Are there kind rich people absolutely. However, Christ and St. Paul seemed to think that there was if nothing else a notable concern for the rich.
 
vern_humphrey said:
Go to Phillips County, Arkansas, the poorest county in the United States, and I will show you more people who get divorces (or who never bother to marry before having children), who take drugs, and commit crimes than all the Hollywood types put together. If that’s not enough, go into the slums of any big city, and you will see the same.
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Perhaps the rich are too smart to move there?
 
The question is can you get rich w/o losing your soul, right? So taking the non-rich into consideration, as Vern wants us to do, fits if we consider their immoral actions undertaking in the pursuit of material gains as actual proof that the answer to the questions is, in many cases, yes. Those poor folks commiting those crimes - why are they doing them? For money/possessions. Ergo, in pursuit of wealth (whether they succeed in getting rich or not is beyond the point) they could “lose their soul”. Switching focus to those who are already wealthy, we have to ask ourselves what they did to get so rich. Did it involve immoral acts (cheating, undue influence, bribery, exploitation, etc)? Aren’t these just the same types of immoral acts the poor are doing but on a larger scale? Aren’t all of them done in the pursuit of wealth? Doesn’t that indicate that the answer to the OP question is a strong maybe? 🤷
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
Humphrey - It sounds like you hate poor people.
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Christine - It sounds like you hate rich people.😉

However, I don’t suppose about people – the FBI Uniform Crime Report tells us that there is more crime in the lower socio-economic strata. It isn’t hate, but facts, that inform my argument.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
My point is that getting divorced has different consequences (financially) depending on whether you are rich or poor.
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That’s true – among the poor, the consequences can be positive, at least for the wife, who becomes eligible for various government programs. Among the rich, it can entail dismantling a business and a swift ride downhill.
 
vern_humphrey said:
Go to Phillips County, Arkansas, the poorest county in the United States, and I will show you more people who get divorces (or who never bother to marry before having children), who take drugs, and commit crimes than all the Hollywood types put together. If that’s not enough, go into the slums of any big city, and you will see the same.
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First of all the above is not really pertinent to the discussion as at the very base level the sins of others do not erase one’s own sins. Secondly, while the very poor and the very rich share some things in common they also walk in different worlds. The wealthy are often raised in scenarios that give them better examples of success. They also benefit from better education, security and more positive living conditions in general.

The poor on the other hand are surrounded by failure. They are surrounded by negative archetypes that they like their wealthy brothers perpetuate. When, I was growing up the guys that kids wanted to be like were the made men. They were the ones that seemed to be in countrol of their world. They had money and people feared them (confused with respect). These are the examples of success.

I grew up in the inner city nestled between three of the worst projects in the city. I remember friends assuming that I was smarter than them because I was white. You really have no concept of what its like to live in a world where that you grow up knowing that you can’t advance in certain areas because of your color or because you actually don’t know anyone who “makes it out” by “legitiment” means.

Was I smarter than my friends? No, not at all but they believed it and that’s all that mattered. Even though my family was very poor I had massive advantages by just being white being in a two parent home (most of my friends just had moms). So right off the bat most of my friends did not have good examples of family situations and usually very bad male examples.

So comparing the two as if they were equal situations just isn’t accurate. Finally, you keep mentioning drug dealers. Drug dealers aren’t poor. They make good money, and the purpose is to make money because money is power.
 
rtconstant said:
First of all the above is not really pertinent to the discussion as at the very base level the sins of others do not erase one’s own sins. Secondly, while the very poor and the very rich share some things in common they also walk in different worlds. The wealthy are often raised in scenarios that give them better examples of success. They also benefit from better education, security and more positive living conditions in general.
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How is this relevant to the subject of this thread?
rtconstant said:
The poor on the other hand are surrounded by failure. They are surrounded by negative archetypes that they like their wealthy brothers perpetuate. When, I was growing up the guys that kids wanted to be like were the made men. They were the ones that seemed to be in countrol of their world. They had money and people feared them (confused with respect). These are the examples of success.
Click to expand...
How is this relevant to the subject of this thread?
rtconstant said:
I grew up in the inner city nestled between three of the worst projects in the city. I remember friends assuming that I was smarter than them because I was white. You really have no concept of what its like to live in a world where that you grow up knowing that you can’t advance in certain areas because of your color or because you actually don’t know anyone who “makes it out” by “legitiment” means.
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How do you know what I know and don’t know?
rtconstant said:
Was I smarter than my friends? No, not at all but they believed it and that’s all that mattered. Even though my family was very poor I had massive advantages by just being white being in a two parent home (most of my friends just had moms). So right off the bat most of my friends did not have good examples of family situations and usually very bad male examples.
Click to expand...
How is this relevant to the subject of this thread?
rtconstant said:
So comparing the two as if they were equal situations just isn’t accurate. Finally, you keep mentioning drug dealers. Drug dealers aren’t poor. They make good money, and the purpose is to make money because money is power.
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How is this relevant to the subject of this thread?
 
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