Is it possible to become filthy rich without losing your soul?

[stinkcat_14]

Among the rich, it can entail dismantling a business and a swift ride downhill.

Let’s see the numbers. What percentage of rich people are made poor by divorce?

 

[vern_humphrey]

Let’s see the numbers. What percentage of rich people are made poor by divorce?

I didn’t say they were “made poor.” I said that a divorce entails splitting assets, and that can result in a business being divided up and a downhill slide.

The point is, the more assets a couple have, the worse for them a divorce can be.

 

[stinkcat_14]

The point is, the more assets a couple have, the worse for them a divorce can be.

Only if they are greedy. For example, going from $2 million to $1 million is not too bad in the grand scheme of things. You still have much more than you need to live on. On the other hand, going from $25,000 to zero can be devistating. Of course the tend to pay a larger fraction of their net worth in legal fees.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Only if they are greedy.

One doesn’t have to be “greedy” to see how splitting up a going business can be disadvantageous to both sides.

For example, going from $2 million to $1 million is not too bad in the grand scheme of things. You still have much more than you need to live on.

Unless, of course you split up a business and made it no longer viable.

On the other hand, going from $25,000 to zero can be devistating.

And that would be the fate of a husband in a family near poverty – the wife would be eligible for many government programs.

Of course the tend to pay a larger fraction of their net worth in legal fees.

Nothing happens in this country without a lawyer getting a cut.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Jesus on How the Rich Get to Heaven (Mark 10:17-25)

In order to follow him, Jesus says that a person must sell all they have first — something few, if any, modern Christians can plausibly claim that they do.

In fact, the selling of material wealth and property appears to not only be advisable, but actually critical — according to Jesus, there is no chance that a rich person can get into heaven. Rather than a sign of God’s blessing, material wealth is treated as a sign that someone isn’t heeding God’s will.

Jesus’ rejection of material wealth is closely tied to his rejection of earthly power — if a person has to be receptive to powerlessness to follow Jesus, it makes sense that they would have to abandon many of the trappings of power, like wealth and material goods

 

[vern_humphrey]

Jesus on How the Rich Get to Heaven (Mark 10:17-25)

In order to follow him, Jesus says that a person must sell all they have first — something few, if any, modern Christians can plausibly claim that they do.

In fact, the selling of material wealth and property appears to not only be advisable, but actually critical — according to Jesus, there is no chance that a rich person can get into heaven. Rather than a sign of God’s blessing, material wealth is treated as a sign that someone isn’t heeding God’s will.

Jesus’ rejection of material wealth is closely tied to his rejection of earthly power — if a person has to be receptive to powerlessness to follow Jesus, it makes sense that they would have to abandon many of the trappings of power, like wealth and material goods

And yet if they do, many of us will starve to death – the economy will collapse, and very few can feed themselves without a job of some kind.

 

[Al_Masetti]

And yet if they do, many of us will starve to death – the economy will collapse, and very few can feed themselves without a job of some kind.

One of my favorite lines:

2 Thessalonians 3:10

10For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.”

Seems like free market economics to me.

Hardly socialism.

Nothing in there about being passive aggressive and demanding free government cheese.

Yep, don’t work, don’t eat. I think that says it all.

Notice that it doesn’t say that those who CAN NOT work should not eat. No, we should have compassion on and help out those people. But if someone can work, yet WILL NOT work, then he’s left to the consequences of his actions (or inactions in this case).

Here are a couple other verses on this same line of thinking:

Lazy hands make a man poor, but diligent hands bring wealth. Proverbs 10:4

How long will you lie there, you sluggard? When will you get up from your sleep? A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest – and poverty will come on you like a bandit and scarcity like an armed man. Proverbs 6:9-11

So get out there and work! Or find a way to survive without eating.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Jesus on How the Rich Get to Heaven (Mark 10:17-25)

In order to follow him, Jesus says that a person must sell all they have first — something few, if any, modern Christians can plausibly claim that they do.

In fact, the selling of material wealth and property appears to not only be advisable, but actually critical — according to Jesus, there is no chance that a rich person can get into heaven. Rather than a sign of God’s blessing, material wealth is treated as a sign that someone isn’t heeding God’s will.

Jesus’ rejection of material wealth is closely tied to his rejection of earthly power — if a person has to be receptive to powerlessness to follow Jesus, it makes sense that they would have to abandon many of the trappings of power, like wealth and material goods

One of my favorite lines:

2 Thessalonians 3:10

10For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.”

Seems almost like free market economics to me.

Hardly a rejection of the material world.

Nothing in there about being passive aggressive and demanding free government cheese. Or demanding being fed by … well, whom, exactly? If we all reject material stuff, then where will our food, clothing, shelter, and fuel come from?

Yep, don’t work, don’t eat. I think that says it all.

Notice that it doesn’t say that those who CAN NOT work should not eat. No, we should have compassion on and help out those people. But if someone can work, yet WILL NOT work, then he’s left to the consequences of his actions (or inactions in this case).

Here are a couple other verses on this same line of thinking:

Lazy hands make a man poor, but diligent hands bring wealth. Proverbs 10:4

How long will you lie there, you sluggard? When will you get up from your sleep? A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest – and poverty will come on you like a bandit and scarcity like an armed man. Proverbs 6:9-11

So get out there and work! Or find a way to survive without eating.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I’m just quoting Jesus. I didn’t make this stuff up.

]Luke 14:33 So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.

Luke 12:33 Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys.

Matthew 19:21Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go and sell what you own and give the money to the destitute, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come back and follow me.”

Anyway, we aren’t talking about people who have to work to make a living, we are talking about people who have too much money.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I’m just quoting Jesus. I didn’t make this stuff up.

]Luke 14:33 So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.

Luke 12:33 Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves money belts which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near nor moth destroys.

Matthew 19:21Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go and sell what you own and give the money to the destitute, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come back and follow me.”

Anyway, we aren’t talking about people who have to work to make a living, we are talking about people who have too much money.

If it weren’t for those people who “have too much money,” the rest of us wouldn’t have jobs.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I don’t agree. That’s your opinion. The point is the fabulously weathly don’t need all that wealth. They should share their wealth with the starving people around the world.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I don’t agree. That’s your opinion. The point is the fabulously weathly don’t need all that wealth. They should share their wealth with the starving people around the world.

No, that’s economics, whether you agree with it or not.

 

[Al_Masetti]

I don’t agree. That’s your opinion. The point is the fabulously weathly don’t need all that wealth. They should share their wealth with the starving people around the world.

You have a choice: you can hire out to a rich person or you can ask a poor person for a job.

 

[rtconstant]

How is this relevant to the subject of this thread?

How is this relevant to the subject of this thread?

How do you know what I know and don’t know?

How is this relevant to the subject of this thread?

How is this relevant to the subject of this thread?

You brought it up. So why are the sins of the poor of relevant to a thread about the wealthy and the pursuit of money?

 

[rtconstant]

If it weren’t for those people who “have too much money,” the rest of us wouldn’t have jobs.

So back to the nature of the thread why do you think Jesus said: “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?”

 

[Al_Masetti]

I don’t agree. That’s your opinion. The point is the fabulously weathly don’t need all that wealth. They should share their wealth with the starving people around the world.

Many billionaires have attempted to give their money away. But the philanthropic foundations they founded became corrupt with the money.

Giving the money to governments has also turned out to be an effort in which the checks are directly deposited into the Swiss bank accounts of the local ruling thugs.

Some multi-billionaires have founded universities or libraries.

Giving the money away is tougher than you’d think.

There are about six billion people in the world. About half are probably in the poor category.

So some multi-billionaire could divest himself of all of his (or her) money and send each person a dollar or two.

OR, the multi-billionaire could start more businesses and employ more people and give each poor person the opportunity to earn a decent living. And by example, encourage other talented people to establish viable businesses.

 

[a_priori]

I’m just quoting Jesus. I didn’t make this stuff up.

]Luke 14:33 So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.

If you insist on taking everything literally, we would all be walking around naked and living in caves with a life expectancy of 30 years.

 

[a_priori]

So back to the nature of the thread why do you think Jesus said: “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?”

Taking all Scripture literally will lead you into a philosophical cul-de-sac.

 

[Al_Masetti]

If you insist on taking everything literally, we would all be walking around naked and living in caves with a life expectancy of 30 years.

At one point, Jesus said just let down your nets and they will be filled to the breaking point AND the fish will have gold coins in their mouths.

Of course, if you don’t have a boat or a net or a crew, that kind of eliminates that possibility.

 

[vern_humphrey]

So back to the nature of the thread why do you think Jesus said: “It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?”

Not for the reason you seem to imply. The “rich” in Jesus’ time were Quislings, allies of Rome. Yet He even reached out to them – choosing Matthew, a tax collector as an Apostle.