Is it possible to find a Christian man who doesn’t have a wandering eye?

[1ke]

Sometime it’s good to self reflect to see if there is any tendency to project

I think you might be implying that I am projecting, not sure. If so. I can assure you that isn’t the case.

It’s important also not to “look for things” in peoples posts (if that makes sense).

I don’t have to look any farther than the numerous posts you’ve made yourself about your body image/beauty issues, issues with makeup, what your wear, your sister, distrustfulness of men , etc. You posted these things.

They are context for your current post wherein you posit that it is nigh impossible to find a Christian man who doesn’t have a “wandering eye” and lament men staring at your cleavage as you wear a tank style bodysuit top while Christmas shopping. Also, you asked a question— is it possible to find a good Christian man who doesn’t ogle women on the street only to dismiss the numerous posters who have answered in the affirmative. So it doesn’t seem you really wanted an answer but rather to confirm your own position that there aren’t such men to be found.

And then go further with sweeping generalizations about men and jealousy, men and being “visual”, men and “wandering eyes” and “grass is greener” mentality.

I think those who have pointed out— a) there are plenty of men who don’t stare/ogle other women and plenty of Christian men out there who treat their wives respectfully without wandering eyes, grass is greener mentality or jealousy, and b) if you don’t want to be ogled in stores don’t wear a cleavage-showing tank top or body suit (which tend to be form fitting in addition to revealing)— are being entirely reasonable.

So yes, some self reflection might be needed, but I’d don’t think it’s me that needs it.

I don’t believe genders are the same, even though the Western world is trying to push that they are.

I don’t believe anyone on this thread has said that the male and female sexes are “the same”, merely that gross generalizations aren’t helpful.

 

[EndTimes]

Moving the goalposts much?

No. All I did was point out what You said re: Wandering Eye
Along with bringing attention to the OP…

 

[Marek]

Listen, I admitted I glanced at women, assuming this is what the OP said is a wandering eye. I never said that I was looking at women lustfully, and you said my statement about it being impossible to guess lustful thoughts is very flawed. Either you’re misunderstanding this completely, or you’re trolling, or you’re deliberately posting inflammatory comments about me. I won’t comment on this further.

As for the original position. There are two possibilities:

1. If:
   wandering eye is when men are simply looking at other people, then:
   the question is valid, because:
   it only describes objectively observed actions of onlookers.
2. However, if:
   wandering eye is when men are looking at women lustfully, then:
   the question is invalid, because:
   it’s impossible to know the intentions of the onlooker.

It’s natural to look at other people. When you see an interesting situation, person or face, it’s almost impossible not to look, in fact, it would be suspicious if you were averting your eyes from an interesting situation happening. We have certain social instincts and it’s not possible (or very difficult) to live in a society without having them. Indeed, not having those instincts is an indication of sociopathy.

As for grass being greener mentality, it’s unavoidable. You would have to literally have dated all 4 billion individuals of opposite sex before concluding with all certainty that you met your soul mate and who that person is.
There is always a possibility that there’s someone who is younger, more attractive, more intelligent, wittier, richer, etc., than you, attracted to your husband and she might want to seduce him away from you.
Your husband might have some old friends, maybe some old flames, with whom he never had proper closure and towards whom he may still have complex feelings.
It’s unavoidable. The key is not to make sure to be better, or to be one step ahead of them, or to keep an eye on your husband. The key is finding a partner who believes in the sacrament of matrimony and understands that it’s an unbreakable bond between two people and is not going to risk giving up eternal salvation for a sinful moment.

 

[Mhkc]

As for grass being greener mentality, it’s unavoidable. You would have to literally have dated all 4 billion individuals of opposite sex before concluding with all certainty that you met your soul mate and who that person is.

Thank you. I had not thought nor heard such an position. It is really helping me a lot gain clarity… Especially in truly finding specific direction WITHIN LEGIT sincere effort in Catholic faith… AND THE ELEMENT OF MATRIMONY as SACRAMENT.

Truly, I say, "it’s how I choose to treat it: the marriage ideal sacrament "…to me, it resonates, that its similar to how i treat any sacrament, no? Because if I don’t respect the accountability and gift of eucharist, confession, contrition : why would I expect increased faith strength, control over fleshly urges, will power- or rather God’s will power working sanctifyingly through me?

The key is finding a partner who believes in the sacrament of matrimony and understands that it’s an unbreakable bond between two people and is not going to risk giving up eternal salvation for a sinful moment

This is very powerful. I’m 44.5 swm. Never married. As measured worldly, I appear “put together”…wealth I’ve earned, not silver spooned. Non proft oriented in philanthropy where I give scholarships grants out, excellent health I earn through strict years of discipline and food journal, no addiction or use of pornography, addiction to alcohol, marijuana, but perhaps a little “faith searching affiction”…blah blah… however spiritually, I’m -IN PART- desolate, empty, a walking skeleton, almost soulless, disconnected from God, human relationship, no warm fuzzies, no kumbaya… I say in part, because, it’s just like this most important part: that throne in my innermost heart soul…that can only ONLY BE seated with God through Christ.

Yes I would like to have a wife or a dating relationships leading towards marriage with the context of Christian Catholic principles…but I’m well challenged by this post. Though it might be comforting or tempting to go into a whole pity victim blame sort of “poor me woes me” look mom , I’m trying pitch… meaning live as obediently sinless, and charitable, that seems more like complaining to God, not prayer.

For me, I think I best to obey , keep fleeing sin- and I mean really really crack down on my own arrogant, gluttonous, selfish, all about wjat in on earth to do, be, or get", dont ask why, do good works, give all I can toward the poor, as I do… accept that I may get a cross and crucifixion like the savior, i follow…

 

[Hume]

Personally though, I want to totally make sure a guy is the “one”…

For good or bad, the “one” doesn’t exist.

I have a good marriage with my wife. I’m confident there are millions if not billions of women that I could also have had a good marriage with. There are millions if not billions of men she could have also had a good marriage with.

There are no guarantees with people. Shop the best you can, pick, roll with the inevitable changes.

 

[Rozellelily]

Im sorry but a lot of this is your misinterpretation.

• Firstly you were judgmental regarding the bodysuit and presumed that a woman couldn’t wear one without intentionally showing cleavage.

• Next you spoke words into my mouth saying that I thought “ men are dogs” when I actually love men and said nothing of the sort.

• Then you presumed I have negative relationships with men when all my relationships have only (thanks to God) positive and I love dating.
Sorry but you misinterpret things wrong and “deeper” then they are through your own “filter”.
Somehow you jump from a person stating men in shops have wandering eye to mean a person has all these negative relationships with men?
Sorry but your connections are too big and unhealthy.

Some people like talking about the “birds and bees” in relatively light way, and this is ok.

• Then you referenced old posts I made and drew connections all over the place.
The fact you even remember such great detail about other peoples post from ages ago seems a bizarre and beyond creepy…

Isn’t it also interesting the human nature to remember only the “perceived negative”…
I wonder how much you remember at all my posts like “what’s the best charities” or “please pray for refugees” etc……*
Or the post about the Woman with Dwarfism who was bullied and found passion & happiness through dance.…?

Some members intentionally leave profiles open and I have always tried to be an open person on CAF.
It is sad that I have now felt to put it on private because a person abused this openness .

For info sake, I have actually felt quite happy about my looks for a while now but tbh sorry that is not something that I felt I owed you to share.
Of course I was happy to share this with people who wrote kindly and respectfully.
I stopped focusing on “perfection” and now I’m much more ok about my looks.
This doesn’t mean that a person can’t sometimes have more “negative” days but it certainly doesn’t mean that everything they think/feel/say/do/eat/drink is related to body image beliefs.
Women + men can believe women are statistically more jealous or men are statistically more visual as a separate thing. Whether you believe or not I can not control

•I shouldn’t really have to explain, but people are dynamic & grow & change all the time. I don’t feel the same about some things as year or months ago on many fronts.

Can you say that you are so without flaw that if I went through your posting history it would be immaculate/replicate Christ?
Or perhaps I would find a consistent pattern of abrasive responses to people?
Now, what if I fixated on this and for every post you made many months later I brought it up, presumed you couldn’t have changed, thought that I knew you personally & in entirety based off a few shared “snippets” over internet, drew connections all the over place filtered through my own mind/personality saying that every opinion and thing you state or feel connects back to your abrasive interpersonal skills and nature?

Does this sound kind and charitable to you? Or even healthy?

 

[Rozellelily]

I am sorry you don’t like generalisations. However it’s still my choice to respond to @mhkc about it that I personally believe that overall % wise, women are a bit more jealous then men based off my own culture.

• Now you have made “accusation” towards me of dismissing others posts when i did not at all or even cross my mind anything like this??
I agreed with what most of the (kind) posters wrote. I would not be surprised if you even read this though as for whatever reason you seem to only look for negative…?
You have taken my continuing discussion of the topic with them as being dismissal?
Sorry but again this is something from your imagining/misinterpretation and not something i was feeling at all.

• **You should not be trying to play “internet armchair psychologist”. **
Please remember the bible tells us to remove the log from our own eye first to be able to see clearly others specks.

•Realistically, hypothetically even if a person did still have low self esteem, it should not affect you the extent it does to even go so far as to crawl through others old posts…
When a person not projecting anything they wouldn’t be hyper sensitive to another person mentioning something about appearance even if they did have self esteem issues in the past and still had them.

There would be no abrasive speech, or judgment. It almost comes across like you are ‘looking for something”…

if you don’t want to be ogled in stores don’t wear a cleavage-showing tank top or body suit

**You display a lot of judgment about women wearing tank style tops. **
Have you asked why that is?
A woman free of state of projection usually just dresses themselves modest & has no judgment about other women’s modesty/intentions/clothing.

 

[Rozellelily]

men and being “visual”…,

At no point did I state anywhere that every man on earth or that I know is more visual etc??
Many rash connections…
I do believe that genders are different and I do believe that statistically overall generally men are more visual than women. You don’t have to agree at all. :woman_shrugging:t3: Please though can you show more tolerance if people don’t believe as you do

Generally, if we aren’t sure what a person means, it is more charitable to ask for clarification rather than draw wrong connections through ones own minds filter

Also, btw, God has blessed me with an amazing sister and we have a very loving and supportive close relationship.
I would very much appreciate if you didn’t reference my sister or any posts regarding momentary small fights which all sisters have from time to time to try to twist and misinterpreted them to form some “ created imagined story” which is formed by your mind alone.

It is very prudent that you do not take “snapshots” from a persons life or day to then form some “imaged big picture” about their lives as a whole.
It is wise to understand that people often post more negative then positive.
It is unfortunate but it human nature.
Just like a person may post something negative with their work life but not post all the other positive 95 % days.

• Tbh this “interaction” with you has affected my peace majority so I won’t be responding anymore to your posts. If you wish to respond, I would appreciate if you could send me a private message instead of on the threads.
None of this is honouring God -neither my speech nor yours.
I’ll be the first to admit that I am failing to respond how Jesus would in this situation.
Clearly I need to work on how to respond better and not be dragged into stupid pointless arguing. I will pray to God how to improve. I hope you can also pray to God the same for yourself.

So yes, some self reflection might be needed, but I’d don’t think it’s me that needs it.

The fact a person to get into this sort of “discussion” in the first place suggests that self -reflection is needed. (I am referring to me too). If you honestly believe you have no need for self reflection here or in mannerisms then that’s between you and God. I don’t believe Jesus, our role model, would interact this way but if you are comfortable you have no flaws on your part in relating, kind speech or judgment etc then I can only wish good luck to you and happiness in the New Year. .**

 

[Rozellelily]

Yes I think you are probably right.

 

[Mhkc]

For good or bad, the “one” doesn’t exist.

I have a good marriage with my wife. I’m confident there are millions if not billions of women that I could also have had a good marriage with. There are millions if not billions of men she could have also had a good marriage with.

Thank you Hume. This position is something I had never really considered either. Boy, is it sobering fir me to relate to, as 44.5 swm. As my prodigal return ensues, I can’t help but find such a richness of faith in this position. Why? Well, 4me, it seems that I, for be it socio cultural influence in me and the subliminal mental messages I got of finding “the one”, even in my xp of church fellowship circles. etc… I happen to really be dealing with a sobering decluttering process when contemplating the implication of what this means.

Good stuff, but hard stuff. In my life, I know i had/have behavioural patterns, feelings, family of origin dynamics, and various responses that I sought and commit deep change, so as to best *(not perfect) be the example I can. That makes sense to me. Responsible stewardship.

I think one gets born. No picking parents, no picking kids. But there is more responsibility on that parenting side of birth order. I feel that way. Some don’t. When speaking with 3/4 of my uncles, they take no to little responsibility for “their influence on their kids.” That a family of origin issue that has cost me, my brother life altering negative perceptional patterns to either blindfully cooperate , or take the blinders off and “not be like family”…
I dont know if other looking at this can imagine: but how do u think I’ve been recieved by being the change in my own ways? Well, its been even more highly emotionally outcast by my family of origin…than “normal”

All the more reason to get comfortable believing in Christ’s indwelling. Let Him set uo camp in my heart/soul. .

 

[EndTimes]

A roving eye is 100% the fault of the rover

No… For often there’s the Rovee… The one - who ploys for the Rover…

Such as one whose Dress - and/or lack of dress - knowingly begs for Sex-Related Attention

 

[Rozellelily]

I do understand/accept the cleavage bit, as men can having physical reaction (heart beating faster) to cleavage,
but out of curiosity, is it a general mindset by USA people to view “tank and singlet top” style clothing as being immodest?

Living in Australia singlet tops or bodysuit it is common place here. Also being of Croatian Bosnian background this is normal there too. Priests never make an issue of it and many Muslim girls there dress like this too.

This clothing is “normal” in many Asia county like China, Singapore etc too.

The American persons that perceive tank tops as being immodest I guess they must by extension then also perceive many dresses as being immodest because a lot of dresses show your figure to some degree?
There are nice loose feminine maxi dresses now available too, but in my culture I don’t really view an off shoulder dress as being immodest either.

 

[DarkLight]

No I think that’s mostly CAF. Although it also doesn’t help that the results you get for googling “bodysuit” seem to be tilted towards more immodest versions. Much more so than the ones I’ve actually seen in stores.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The American persons that perceive tank tops as being immodest

This isn’t a particularly American view. If you go to Italy and Rome, you cannot enter churches, including the Vatican, wearing a sleeveless outfit. Tourists are cautioned about this all the time because Italy tends to be warm and a lot of people would naturally go sleeveless, in which case they need to carry a light sweater or jacket or blouse with sleeves to put on when it’s time to go into a church.

A lot of US traditionalists maintain this view for US churches as well; for example, the local traditionalist parishes here require that men and women’s tops must have sleeves. They see it as following the dress code established by Rome. Non-traditionalist parishes usually aren’t concerned with what people are wearing and you will see people in those churches wearing tank tops and shorts, especially in hot climates or beach areas.

 

[Marek]

It’s a cultural thing. Much like you wouldn’t go to a formal party wearing a tank top and shorts, you’re expected to dress your best to church. After all, if you’re willing to dress up for another person, but go to Mass in casual clothing, where does that put God?

There’s also a practical side to this. If there are boundaries and people dress within them, you can’t reasonably question this. If you don’t place any boundaries, people will voice their concern even at clothing that’s perfectly proper (and which is within boundaries where they are set).

You’re mostly right about Italy. The exact expectation is that you cover shoulders. However, at least in Rome, churches which are popular tourist destinations hand out shawls to visitors. If you’re only entering to visit (not for Mass), they’re adequate.
If you’re only sightseeing, carrying your own shawl or scarf is a good idea for hygienic reasons, but if you visit a church to stay for Mass, it’s inconvenient, so it’s indeed sound advice to carry a sweater, jacket, shirt or blouse.

 

[DarkLight]

A lot of US traditionalists maintain this view for US churches as well; for example, the local traditionalist parishes here require that men and women’s tops must have sleeves. They see it as following the dress code established by Rome. Non-traditionalist parishes usually aren’t concerned with what people are wearing and you will see people in those churches wearing tank tops and shorts, especially in hot climates or beach areas.

And the topic of wearing a sleeveless dress to Mass tends to start long arguments here on CAF. It’s fairly common in my area; we don’t see tank tops and shorts much, but women wearing sleeveless dresses or blouses in summer is common.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

And the topic of wearing a sleeveless dress to Mass tends to start long arguments here on CAF. It’s fairly common in my area

Yeah, it’s common in every OF parish. I don’t even remember it being such a big deal in the 60s and 70s, as my mom had a lot of stylish sleeveless shift dresses because they were in fashion then, and in the summer churches had either no air conditioning or it didn’t work very well back in those days. Mom would always wear a dress to church in those days and some of the dresses were sleeveless but fashionable. You would see a lot of women wearing sleeveless shift dresses if they had the arms to wear them. The dresses mostly all had full backs though, because any sort of cutaway sunback was considered immodest for church even if it still had a partial back. I remember my mother ranting about girls in sunback dresses at church.

 

[Rozellelily]

Yeah some of the ones that come up for me on google are the lacey ones or extreme high cut leg -side ones that look a bit like a mild version of Borats Mankini lol.

 

[DazedANDconfused]

I’ll admit that I am initially attracted to other girls I see, but not in any meaningful way. More of a fleeting moment…

Marriage doesn’t just turn off that switch in male brains…That doesn’t mean that you can go in for a closer look though. In fact, when I see a girl that’s clearly catching my eye, I think about my wife.

If you catch your guy STARING at another girl, that’s probably a reason to say something.