Is it Right for the Catholic Church to fund groups that attack the American Way of Life?

[Lujack]

It can’t be the Holy Roman Empire without the popes blessing.

Not true. In fact, the Holy Roman Emperor was at war with the Pope for hundreds of years. They claimed the title “holy” because they claimed succession from Charlemagne, who was crowned by the Pope, but there was no special relationship between the Vatican and the Holy Roman Empire.

Like you said to others, read a history book.

 

[truthsavesu]

Not true. In fact, the Holy Roman Emperor was at war with the Pope for hundreds of years. They claimed the title “holy” because they claimed succession from Charlemagne, who was crowned by the Pope, but there was no special relationship between the Vatican and the Holy Roman Empire.

Like you said to others, read a history book.

Thanks for the advice.

World history before the 20th Century has never really interested me because all of Europe has changed anyway. It’s about as important as who said what in the bible.

It is more important to realize that with the same apathy that people had after WW1, Hitler rose to power with no one stopping him until the war was well under way. No one would listen to Churchill’s warnings. No one was willing to fight Hitler in the early years when he could have easily been stopped. So just like todays invaders are writing history and white people will just be look upon as a pathetic race that refused to fight back.

Still looking for the 15,000 mexicans YOU claimed fought in WW2. Maybe they fought each other in one big gang war! Or maybe you read about them in a comic book!

Buenos dias!

 

[Lujack]

Thanks for the advice.

Still looking for the 15,000 mexicans YOU claimed fought in WW2. Maybe they fought each other in one big gang war! Or maybe you read about them in a comic book!

Buenos dias!

I claimed 15,000 Mexicans went overseas. The only ones who saw combat were the 201st, and I never claimed otherwise. In fact, if I remember right, you claimed that a squadron that flew several hundred missions and produced an ace was made up by revisionist historians.

Maybe you should read a history book first, and then read the thread second. Once you do that, you can stop making claims you have no justification for.

 

[truthsavesu]

I claimed 15,000 Mexicans went overseas. The only ones who saw combat were the 201st, and I never claimed otherwise. In fact, if I remember right, you claimed that a squadron that flew several hundred missions and produced an ace was made up by revisionist historians.

Maybe you should read a history book first, and then read the thread second. Once you do that, you can stop making claims you have no justification for.

So if 15,000 troops went overseas and can’t even be found in official records, that means they should be allowed in this country because their contribution to WW2 was sitting on their better natures?

By the way, one book does not make a decent reference for any college work that I know of.

And revisionist history has been proved to have happened in the 60s when gutless college kids needed an excuse to dodge the draft.

 

[Lujack]

So if 15,000 troops went overseas and can’t even be found in official records, that means they should be allowed in this country because their contribution to WW2 was sitting on their better natures?

Actually, the WWII tangent has to do with an accusation Bullfighter made that the Mexicans did not participate in the wars of the 20th century, and so were lazy and worthless. I noted that the Mexicans were in bad shape for both world wars, but also pointed out that there were indeed Mexicans who did go overseas for World War II. It had nothing to with immigration.

By the way, one book does not make a decent reference for any college work that I know of.

You know what, why don’t you search the 201st, then? There are plenty of websites out there that talk about them. I picked the best and most comprehensive one, and I don’t feel like searching for more. If its not good enough for you, look it up.

And revisionist history has been proved to have happened in the 60s when gutless college kids needed an excuse to dodge the draft.

???

What does that have to do with revisionist history?

 

[pnewton]

Love this CA site! Where else can you have a few opposing each other while at the same time some agreeing with each other… on the same thread.

Before this whole thread gets shut down, I wanted to try to dial back the heat with some change of pace. Now back to the “vitrole.”

Tigg,

I think the immigration issue is complex indeed. However, one can support charities that help the poor without promoting liberation theology, which has been consistently denounced by the Church. In this country, I really do not think we are in danger (at this time) of a Communist insurrection.

Also, on a whole different point and to everyone in general, I am curious if anyone here (other than me) has ever taken an active role in deporting anyone, or is it just talk?

 

[truthsavesu]

Actually, the WWII tangent has to do with an accusation Bullfighter made that the Mexicans did not participate in the wars of the 20th century, and so were lazy and worthless. I noted that the Mexicans were in bad shape for both world wars, but also pointed out that there were indeed Mexicans who did go overseas for World War II. It had nothing to with immigration.

I’m curious as to where you heard of these troops. I went through the US Army literature that mentioned most everything that happened as a military build up in the western hemisphere. It mentions all the things that Mexico did to prepare for an “invasion” and all the equipment the US sent to Mexico but nothing about troops being sent anywhere. The only military contribution mentioned was that fighter squadron but nothing else.

The same literature talked about the tremendous Brazilian contribution of 25,000 troops and what they did.

???

What does that have to do with revisionist history?

What I am refering to is in the 60s, no one wanted to be a patriotic America anymore. Whether it was the drugs that were being pumped into our country by our enemies to weaken our society. Or whether it was an attempt to justify the betrayal going on at colleges by American youth. Being an American who loved his country was definitely becoming the worst thing you could possibly be.

Suddenly the American Indian was the tragic figure that the evil white Americans victimized ever since they set foot on this continent. The minority was becoming the thing to be. Everone looked at the minority as the underdog and the white American as the racist bigot that enslaved everyone else. In order for white American youth to exist on college campuses, they had to shed their patriot ideas of the past and fight the establishment because (according to college professors) everything they were ever told to be proud of was a lie. This feeling still exist today. You’ll notice a tremendous drop in college kids attending religious services. Why should they when their all knowing atheist college professors tell them its all nonsence.

You can see the effects of this in cinema. Suddenly in the mid 60s, John Wayne looked like a racist fighting those poor Indians and the anti hero became popular. And so did drugs.

There is a consistant record of drugs being flooded into this country by the worst of our enemies. There was also the class struggle between “snot nosed college kids” of the middle class and young men of working class families (who didn’t have college deferments) being sent to Vietnam. Hardly fair when you consider those deferments didn’t exist for WW1, WW2, or the Korean War.

That is how our society has fallen. And of course, our enemies are taking full advantage of it.

 

[grampben]

You can see the effects of this in cinema. Suddenly in the mid 60s, John Wayne looked like a racist fighting those poor Indians and the anti hero became popular. And so did drugs.

Wow…I thought you said it was bad to have foreigners invade your land illegally

 

[Lujack]

I’m curious as to where you heard of these troops. I went through the US Army literature that mentioned most everything that happened as a military build up in the western hemisphere. It mentions all the things that Mexico did to prepare for an “invasion” and all the equipment the US sent to Mexico but nothing about troops being sent anywhere. The only military contribution mentioned was that fighter squadron but nothing else.

The same literature talked about the tremendous Brazilian contribution of 25,000 troops and what they did.

Okay.

What I am refering to is in the 60s, no one wanted to be a patriotic America anymore. Whether it was the drugs that were being pumped into our country by our enemies to weaken our society. Or whether it was an attempt to justify the betrayal going on at colleges by American youth. Being an American who loved his country was definitely becoming the worst thing you could possibly be.

I don’t know about that. If it was that extreme, how did Richard Nixon win in 1968 (not that Nixon is good, but if people were as communist as they’re saying, wouldn’t they have voted for somebody else)? At the worst, a minority actively disliked America.

I also have to question your assertion that “our enemies” deliberately pumped drugs into America to weaken our society. That seems a little paranoid to me, especially when you look at the long problems with substance and drug abuse in the United States. Opium addictions at the turn of the century were pretty severe, but you won’t find anybody claiming that opium was being deliberately injected into the country to weaken society.

Suddenly the American Indian was the tragic figure that the evil white Americans victimized ever since they set foot on this continent.

Well, the American Indian is a tragic figure in some ways, and there were many reprehensible figures who were lionized for their actions (Jeffrey Amherst in particular).

The minority was becoming the thing to be. Everone looked at the minority as the underdog and the white American as the racist bigot that enslaved everyone else. In order for white American youth to exist on college campuses, they had to shed their patriot ideas of the past and fight the establishment because (according to college professors) everything they were ever told to be proud of was a lie.

Again, I don’t know about this. I don’t think even UC-Berkeley was as bad as you’re portraying it to be. I also think its worth noting that an adjustment in the way we look at history was long overdue. There was a lot of bad history out there (and still is today) masquerading as fact, and whitewashing the American past. Now, there is still some bad history out there (and some bad history that throws blood on the American past), but mainstream history is better today than it was forty years ago.

This feeling still exist today. You’ll notice a tremendous drop in college kids attending religious services. Why should they when their all knowing atheist college professors tell them its all nonsence.

I’m on a college campus right now, and I have to tell you that I don’t see what you claim is happening.

You can see the effects of this in cinema. Suddenly in the mid 60s, John Wayne looked like a racist fighting those poor Indians and the anti hero became popular. And so did drugs.

The anti-hero wasn’t popular in the past? What about the 1930’s? What about James Cagney?

And you have to admit, there were some Westerns that had some very inaccurate and racist cariciatures of Indians. Drugs became popular for reasons of their own, and are a much more complex story.

There is a consistant record of drugs being flooded into this country by the worst of our enemies. There was also the class struggle between “snot nosed college kids” of the middle class and young men of working class families (who didn’t have college deferments) being sent to Vietnam. Hardly fair when you consider those deferments didn’t exist for WW1, WW2, or the Korean War.

Again, I think you’re portraying things as being much more dire than they actually were. We weren’t on the brink of a civil war or anything.

That is how our society has fallen. And of course, our enemies are taking full advantage of it.

Do “our enemies” have a name, or are they just sort of a shadowy conspiracy hanging around in a clubhouse?

 

[catharina]

I’m curious as to where you heard of these troops.

I’m curious as to where you heard of Catholic Answers, as to why you joined Catholic Answers, as to the reasoning that has led to your posting in this thread only.

You don’t mention being Catholic, you don’t mention what has brought you to this site/thread, your anger and “need to blame” is rather obvious. So, what’s your story?

 

[Tigg]

Tigg,

I think the immigration issue is complex indeed. However, one can support charities that help the poor without promoting liberation theology, which has been consistently denounced by the Church. In this country, I really do not think we are in danger (at this time) of a Communist insurrection.

True, but I was speaking of the groups that the CHD has funded. Here are links to threads that have talked extensively about the USCCB funding groups that are contrary to Catholic moral teaching and the gospel of Jesus Christ. (Not a pretty picture.) Somewhere in all these pages you’ll find a complete listing of grantees. And yes, they actually did fund a Communist Chinese group at one point. Many of these groups are totally immersed in the battle of the illegal immigrants. Also, I believe I read that Pope Paul II wrote a document on liberation theology (don’t have the source at the moment,) but there are actually aspects of it that he accepted. What I was speaking of in my post was the Alinskyian style politics, which, for instance, the group ACORN fashions itself after. And the Church did give $1.1 million to ACORN.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=284360&highlight=ACORN%2BUSCCB

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=275200&highlight=ACORN%2BUSCCB

Also, on a whole different point and to everyone in general, I am curious if anyone here (other than me) has ever taken an active role in deporting anyone, or is it just talk?

I would be very interested in hearing about this. Please tell us, if you can get a word in edgewise!

 

[truthsavesu]

Quote:
What I am refering to is in the 60s, no one wanted to be a patriotic America anymore. Whether it was the drugs that were being pumped into our country by our enemies to weaken our society. Or whether it was an attempt to justify the betrayal going on at colleges by American youth. Being an American who loved his country was definitely becoming the worst thing you could possibly be.
I don’t know about that. If it was that extreme, how did Richard Nixon win in 1968 (not that Nixon is good, but if people were as communist as they’re saying, wouldn’t they have voted for somebody else)? At the worst, a minority actively disliked America.

I also have to question your assertion that “our enemies” deliberately pumped drugs into America to weaken our society. That seems a little paranoid to me, especially when you look at the long problems with substance and drug abuse in the United States. Opium addictions at the turn of the century were pretty severe, but you won’t find anybody claiming that opium was being deliberately injected into the country to weaken society.

Drug addicts were grown on the battlefield in WW2. Ready made addicts were veterans returning home. Juvinile delequency was also due in part because children lost their fathers to war. Opium addict going back to the turn of the century is a streching it a bit. Drugs came on line just slightly after prohibition but it wasn’t a major problem until after WW2. In China, which produces the offending drugs, you be sent to a firing squad for distributing it there, but you’ll get a medal for sending it to the US. It’s a well known fact, I’m not paranoid but maybe the FBI and other law enforcement sources are. They have all this information.

Quote:
Suddenly the American Indian was the tragic figure that the evil white Americans victimized ever since they set foot on this continent.
Well, the American Indian is a tragic figure in some ways, and there were many reprehensible figures who were lionized for their actions (Jeffrey Amherst in particular).

Not really. Just read a little of Lewis and Clark’s Expodition and you’ll see that some Indian tribes WERE savages.

Quote:
The minority was becoming the thing to be. Everone looked at the minority as the underdog and the white American as the racist bigot that enslaved everyone else. In order for white American youth to exist on college campuses, they had to shed their patriot ideas of the past and fight the establishment because (according to college professors) everything they were ever told to be proud of was a lie.
Again, I don’t know about this. I don’t think even UC-Berkeley was as bad as you’re portraying it to be. I also think its worth noting that an adjustment in the way we look at history was long overdue. There was a lot of bad history out there (and still is today) masquerading as fact, and whitewashing the American past. Now, there is still some bad history out there (and some bad history that throws blood on the American past), but mainstream history is better today than it was forty years ago.

**There’s more nonsense then ever before. Most dedicated newsmen have left because they are fed up with reading garbage on the air while the networks deliberately sit on stories that don’t make the invading minorities look so good. **

The Mexican Army crossing our border 42 times in less than a year to escort drug dealers and their shipments of chemical warfare.(illegal drugs)
**The riots between Mexicans and African American students during immigration rallies in California, etc. **

Quote:
This feeling still exist today. You’ll notice a tremendous drop in college kids attending religious services. Why should they when their all knowing atheist college professors tell them its all nonsence.
I’m on a college campus right now, and I have to tell you that I don’t see what you claim is happening.

You won’t see much on small campuses. But most “intellectuals” are atheists who make their students feel like idiots for a belief in God. That’s nothing new though. I can see the military advatage in a bible that prevents people from resisting an invading army of foreigners. How many times have people on this site raised the banner, “Love your enemy!” What nonsense! If the Japanese knew how brainwashed some people were on that subject, they could have landed troops on the west coast and swept the nation up because they surely don’t believe that.

 

[truthsavesu]

Quote:
You can see the effects of this in cinema. Suddenly in the mid 60s, John Wayne looked like a racist fighting those poor Indians and the anti hero became popular. And so did drugs.

The anti-hero wasn’t popular in the past? What about the 1930’s? What about James Cagney?

And you have to admit, there were some Westerns that had some very inaccurate and racist cariciatures of Indians. Drugs became popular for reasons of their own, and are a much more complex story.

What about Robin Hood. Technically, he broke the law. And Jesus was a revolutionary who preached a religion that was in competition with the religions of His day. He also broke the law.
Quote:
There is a consistant record of drugs being flooded into this country by the worst of our enemies. There was also the class struggle between “snot nosed college kids” of the middle class and young men of working class families (who didn’t have college deferments) being sent to Vietnam. Hardly fair when you consider those deferments didn’t exist for WW1, WW2, or the Korean War.

Again, I think you’re portraying things as being much more dire than they actually were. We weren’t on the brink of a civil war or anything.

But where the justice in college deferments.
Quote:
That is how our society has fallen. And of course, our enemies are taking full advantage of it.
Do “our enemies” have a name, or are they just sort of a shadowy conspiracy hanging around in a clubhouse?

Their the one’s who are teaching you to love their culture while hating your own. It’s called propaganda. And if it’s un American to hate the enemy in war, just check some websites that show recruiting poster from WW1 and WW2. Talk about “Hate your enemy?” Also check out the “Why We Fight” series of war shorts that Frank Capra did for the War Department. You wouldn’t find too many “Love Thy Enemy” priests during WW2 either.

---

 

[truthsavesu]

I’m curious as to where you heard of Catholic Answers, as to why you joined Catholic Answers, as to the reasoning that has led to your posting in this thread only.

You don’t mention being Catholic, you don’t mention what has brought you to this site/thread, your anger and “need to blame” is rather obvious. So, what’s your story?

Why is the defense of the United States a dirty word around here. Aren’t you lucky you live here and take for granted the freedom of speech and of religion that other countries do not have. Those freedom were won through conflicts and wars. Yet you people are so willing to sacrifice everything that others have built for you. Wouldn’t it just be easier if you moved to a country where you’ll be thrown in jail for your beliefs so you could be martyrs, instead of forcing your martyrdom on others who are willing to keep fighting.

 

[LDNCatholic]

I’m curious as to where you heard of Catholic Answers, as to why you joined Catholic Answers, as to the reasoning that has led to your posting in this thread only.

You don’t mention being Catholic, you don’t mention what has brought you to this site/thread, your anger and “need to blame” is rather obvious. So, what’s your story?

I think I know the answer to your first question Catharina…well maybe you do too

 

[catharina]

Why is the defense of the United States a dirty word around here. Aren’t you lucky you live here and take for granted the freedom of speech and of religion that other countries do not have. Those freedom were won through conflicts and wars. Yet you people are so willing to sacrifice everything that others have built for you. Wouldn’t it just be easier if you moved to a country where you’ll be thrown in jail for your beliefs so you could be martyrs, instead of forcing your martyrdom on others who are willing to keep fighting.

Ahhh, hi? You might want to get a grip.

I’m not “you people.” I am one person.
I worked as a civilian under contract for two-plus years during the Vietnam War.

What is your (obviously serious) problem? The point of this thread on this site is to learn your opinon as to whether it is “Right for the Catholic Church to fund groups that attack the American Way of Life?” Maybe, add too, any examples that led to your view. I’ve known of no dedication within the Church that would will to crush the American gov’t. Even the example given - of moneys given to Acorn - has been corrected with the firm resolve that such a donation will NEVER happen again.

PS - am I LUCKY to live here?
No. I’m blessed to live here and I thank God for it.

If you live here, then you’re blessed to live here.

 

[Hey_Jude]

Want to laugh? (Or cry)

youtube.com/watch?v=sY4AdUTPEzE

 

[hosemonkey]

I am Irish by ancestry, American citizen by birth; but I am only a traveller moving through this world. I am a Christian by rebirth through baptism and a citizen of heaven by the grace of God in Jesus. Keeping this in mind helps me to recognize that, however strongly I may feel about my country (and believe me I am a patriot), It is nothing compared to the greater communion of saints in the family of the Catholic Church. My family has defended this nation with its blood, at times. How much greater is the call to defend the helpless and the stranger; the widow and the orphan. How great is the call to extend a hand to the needy.

 

[Lujack]

Quote tags getting to you? I hate when that happens.

Drug addicts were grown on the battlefield in WW2. Ready made addicts were veterans returning home. Juvinile delequency was also due in part because children lost their fathers to war. Opium addict going back to the turn of the century is a streching it a bit. Drugs came on line just slightly after prohibition but it wasn’t a major problem until after WW2. In China, which produces the offending drugs, you be sent to a firing squad for distributing it there, but you’ll get a medal for sending it to the US. It’s a well known fact, I’m not paranoid but maybe the FBI and other law enforcement sources are. They have all this information.

China produces the offending drugs? Are you sure about that? Marijuana is mostly homegrown or grown nearby, and drugs like cocaine are mainly being smuggled in from Latin America. What drugs come from China?

Also, I think you are understating the severity of laudaunum and opium addictions. They got pretty bad (not as severe as it got in China, but fairly widespread), and that’s not even taking alcoholism into account, which was much worse than it is today.

Not really. Just read a little of Lewis and Clark’s Expodition and you’ll see that some Indian tribes WERE savages.

Some, perhaps, but what about tribes like the Five Nations, or the Navajo, or the Cherokee (who were actually farmers)? It is a fact of American history that the Native Americans were treated brutally, and this was known as early as the late 1800’s, when Helen Hunt Jackson wrote A Century of Dishonor.

Even if they were all as savage as the worst ones in the Lewis and Clark Expedition, that still wouldn’t mitigate the deliberate policy of making and breaking treaties, or the Seventh Cavalry’s policy of galloping into a village, shooting it up, and moving on, or the deliberate slaughter of the buffalo to starve out the Plains Indians.

**There’s more nonsense then ever before. Most dedicated newsmen have left because they are fed up with reading garbage on the air while the networks deliberately sit on stories that don’t make the invading minorities look so good. **

Newsmen? Since when are newsmen writing the history books and textbooks? We are arguing about history, right?

The Mexican Army crossing our border 42 times in less than a year to escort drug dealers and their shipments of chemical warfare.(illegal drugs)
**The riots between Mexicans and African American students during immigration rallies in California, etc. **

I’m not sure I understand you here. What does this have to do with what we’re talking about, which is revisionist history?

You won’t see much on small campuses. But most “intellectuals” are atheists who make their students feel like idiots for a belief in God. That’s nothing new though. I can see the military advatage in a bible that prevents people from resisting an invading army of foreigners. How many times have people on this site raised the banner, “Love your enemy!” What nonsense! If the Japanese knew how brainwashed some people were on that subject, they could have landed troops on the west coast and swept the nation up because they surely don’t believe that.

Look, I’ve visited multiple campuses, I have friends who go to big research universities, and friends who go to smaller ones. Nobody sees this, and many of those friends are pretty staunchly Catholic.

Your last coda is a little odd, too. Let me say this to you-there is no invading army. There is no coordinated effort to overthrow the United States. People just want to move here. That’s all.

What about Robin Hood. Technically, he broke the law. And Jesus was a revolutionary who preached a religion that was in competition with the religions of His day. He also broke the law.

I don’t understand. This seems like a non-sequitor to me. One minute we’re talking about anti-heroes, and the next we’re talking about Christ and Robin Hood?

But where the justice in college deferments.

I don’t know; there are multiple reasons for it, though. The desire for educated officers, the existence of deferments in other professions…there are justifications for it, and there are arguments against it. The existence of college defements isn’t enough to make the claim that the war turned into a “rich man’s war, and a poor man’s fight”.

Their the one’s who are teaching you to love their culture while hating your own. It’s called propaganda. And if it’s un American to hate the enemy in war, just check some websites that show recruiting poster from WW1 and WW2. Talk about “Hate your enemy?” Also check out the “Why We Fight” series of war shorts that Frank Capra did for the War Department. You wouldn’t find too many “Love Thy Enemy” priests during WW2 either.

What? I asked you who “the enemy” is, and you give me another vague answer. What sort of people are they, what jobs do they work in, what countries do they come from?

Also, I have to ask you whether or not you are Christian, because that affects the framework that I need to follow for addressing your next point. If you aren’t, quoting the Bible won’t do much good.

 

[pnewton]

I would be very interested in hearing about this. Please tell us, if you can get a word in edgewise!

I have been in law enforcement most my adult life. I have on my desk the number to INS investigations and we regularly report illegal aliens when we come in contact with them as criminals. I know the investigator who determines immigration status as he is a frequent visitor. I only say this because I know some agencies have nothing to do with reporting immigration violation of criminals. I really don’t have much contact with the non-criminal element of illegal immigrants, with the one exception of those in large groups who trespass onto railroad property for shelter. They are routinely deported.