Is it Right for the Catholic Church to fund groups that attack the American Way of Life?

[truthsavesu]

Quote tags getting to you? I hate when that happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsavesu forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
Drug addicts were grown on the battlefield in WW2. Ready made addicts were veterans returning home. Juvinile delequency was also due in part because children lost their fathers to war. Opium addict going back to the turn of the century is a streching it a bit. Drugs came on line just slightly after prohibition but it wasn’t a major problem until after WW2. In China, which produces the offending drugs, you be sent to a firing squad for distributing it there, but you’ll get a medal for sending it to the US. It’s a well known fact, I’m not paranoid but maybe the FBI and other law enforcement sources are. They have all this information.

China produces the offending drugs? Are you sure about that? Marijuana is mostly homegrown or grown nearby, and drugs like cocaine are mainly being smuggled in from Latin America. What drugs come from China?

Also, I think you are understating the severity of laudaunum and opium addictions. They got pretty bad (not as severe as it got in China, but fairly widespread), and that’s not even taking alcoholism into account, which was much worse than it is today.

Ever heard of the Vietnam Era. That’s when the Chinese made an effort to destroy American will to fight by flooding America with drugs. They don’t bother with that anymore as we are trading partners and I guess they figure if Americans aren’t defending their borders from invaders, they’ve already been corrupted to the core.

And since big businesses switched to using the even cheaper labor of China, Mexico has another reason to complain about how we are not feeding them.

Quote:
Not really. Just read a little of Lewis and Clark’s Expodition and you’ll see that some Indian tribes WERE savages.

Some, perhaps, but what about tribes like the Five Nations, or the Navao, or the Cherokee (who were actually farmers)? It is a fact of American history that the Native Americans were treated brutally, and this was known as early as the late 1800’s, when Helen Hunt Jackson wrote A Century of Dishonor.

Even if they were all as savage as the worst ones in the Lewis and Clark Expedition, that still wouldn’t mitigate the deliberate policy of making and breaking treaties, or the Seventh Cavalry’s policy of galloping into a village, shooting it up, and moving on, or the deliberate slaughter of the buffalo to starve out the Plains Indians.

I know an American Indian and he even admits that his people destroyed themselves by being stuck in the past and not getting into the mainstream of America. This guy was in the Air Force and was considering going to Iraq as a contractor but changed his mind when he saw the way captured Americans get their heads sawed off. They do that in Mexico too. But don’t tell anybody because telling the truth is racist around here.

The same guy decided to change his last name back to an Indian one just to make his mother happy. You wouldn’t believe how easy it was, he said. You fill out a few papers, you go before a judge, and bingo…I’m somebody else!

Quote:
**There’s more nonsense then ever before. Most dedicated newsmen have left because they are fed up with reading garbage on the air while the networks deliberately sit on stories that don’t make the invading minorities look so good. **

Newsmen? Since when are newsmen writing the history books and textbooks? We are arguing about history, right?

Yes! PBS did a documentary with people like Dan Rather, Andy Rooney, and others who have been around for years. They all say the same thing. American journalism is now minority motivated with a don’t ask, don’t tell feel. Most real reporters hate being told what NOT to report so they retire and write books. By the way, the news of today, IS the history of tomorrow.

 

[truthsavesu]

Quote:
The Mexican Army crossing our border 42 times in less than a year to escort drug dealers and their shipments of chemical warfare.(illegal drugs)
**The riots between Mexicans and African American students during immigration rallies in California, etc. **

I’m not sure I understand you here. What does this have to do with what we’re talking about, which is revisionist history?

I was making a point about what goes unreported in mainstream media. What Americans don’t know about what goes on in their country is shocking! But what Americans refuse to fight for is even worse.

Quote:
You won’t see much on small campuses. But most “intellectuals” are atheists who make their students feel like idiots for a belief in God. That’s nothing new though. I can see the military advatage in a bible that prevents people from resisting an invading army of foreigners. How many times have people on this site raised the banner, “Love your enemy!” What nonsense! If the Japanese knew how brainwashed some people were on that subject, they could have landed troops on the west coast and swept the nation up because they surely don’t believe that.

Look, I’ve visited multiple campuses, I have friends who go to big research universities, and friends who go to smaller ones. Nobody sees this, and many of those friends are pretty staunchly Catholic.

Your last coda is a little odd, too. Let me say this to you-there is no invading army. There is no coordinated effort to overthrow the United States. People just want to move here. That’s all.

Millions of illegals who SNEAK into this country prove you wrong. If they want to be treated just like the immigrants of the 20, 30, 40, etc., why are they using propaganda through churches to make it seem so holy. Why are they forming groups to attack US policy when they have no right to do so.

Quote:
What about Robin Hood. Technically, he broke the law. And Jesus was a revolutionary who preached a religion that was in competition with the religions of His day. He also broke the law.

I don’t understand. This seems like a non-sequitor to me. One minute we’re talking about anti-heroes, and the next we’re talking about Christ and Robin Hood?

You seem to live in a box for someone who is going to college. Robin Hood is a famous law breaker, an ANTI-HERO. Jesus is a famous revolutionary who also broke the rules, an ANTI-HERO. DUH!

Quote:
**But where the justice in college deferments. **

I don’t know; there are multiple reasons for it, though. The desire for educated officers, the existence of deferments in other professions…there are justifications for it, and there are arguments against it. The existence of college defements isn’t enough to make the claim that the war turned into a “rich man’s war, and a poor man’s fight”.

Most Americans put up with it because they felt that if they survived the war, future generations would take care of them and carry on the duty to defend this country. How wrong they were!

Quote:
**Their the one’s who are teaching you to love their culture while hating your own. It’s called propaganda. And if it’s un American to hate the enemy in war, just check some websites that show recruiting poster from WW1 and WW2. Talk about “Hate your enemy?” Also check out the “Why We Fight” series of war shorts that Frank Capra did for the War Department. You wouldn’t find too many “Love Thy Enemy” priests during WW2 either. **

What? I asked you who “the enemy” is, and you give me another vague answer. What sort of people are they, what jobs do they work in, what countries do they come from?

I would have thought that was obvious considering the posts here. You do read them don’t you?

Also, I have to ask you whether or not you are Christian, because that affects the framework that I need to follow for addressing your next point. If you aren’t, quoting the Bible won’t do much good.

You can quote a bible that has been edited to death by man. It may even be an invention of a government to keep people under their thumb. Napoleon was quoted as saying, "Religion is good stuff for keeping common people quiet!"

 

[PaulinVA]

I’ve been watching on the sidelines as this thread has taken a turn into the weeds, hit a tree, and flipped over.

Now it’s just anti mexican rants.

The original issue was whether the Church should check people’s immigration status before they provide services, and whether the Church should actually set up ministries that help those in the US illegally.

A motivation for the original post (from what I could gather) was that the immigrants from the south, whether legal or illegal, were not living as “Americans” but brought their own culture with them

I think that’s more interesting to discuss than various people’s rants about american history or whatever.

 

[Michael_David]

God bless you for your post,Dori.
I had the honor and privilege of serving my country in the U.S. Navy for 22 years. I also had the honor of serving in combat in the Republic of Vietnam for three tours, in the attempt to give the people of Vietnam the opportunity to be citizens of a free and democratic nation, an enterprise that, through no fault of ours, ultimately failed. I do not, for one second, regret my service, or the service of my comrades, living or dead. I have earned my citizenship, through blood and service. I do not begrudge the attempt of those immigrants, legal or illegal, to better their condition, for the sake of their families, and I maintain that the only way that the immigration issue will be solved will be to deal with the conditions that cause illegal immigration in the first place. Our immigration policies have failed, because the desire for freedom and better lives is so much stronger than fences, border guards and even land mines. The Soviet-era measures put into place by East Germany, the Berlin Wall, failed, because people were willing to give up their very lives to better their condition. We will never succeed until a realistic immigration policy is enacted. I am the son of immigrants, I believe in the American Dream for all. We as Americans are certainly smart enough to make it work.

 

[Lujack]

Ever heard of the Vietnam Era. That’s when the Chinese made an effort to destroy American will to fight by flooding America with drugs. They don’t bother with that anymore as we are trading partners and I guess they figure if Americans aren’t defending their borders from invaders, they’ve already been corrupted to the core.

Again, I’ll ask you: what drugs came from China? Cocaine, crack, and marijuana, which are the three big ones as far as abuse goes, all come from the Americas. How were the Chinese smuggling those drugs into the country?

And since big businesses switched to using the even cheaper labor of China, Mexico has another reason to complain about how we are not feeding them.

I’m not sure where this part came from. It has nothing to do with what we’re talking about.

I know an American Indian and he even admits that his people destroyed themselves by being stuck in the past and not getting into the mainstream of America. This guy was in the Air Force and was considering going to Iraq as a contractor but changed his mind when he saw the way captured Americans get their heads sawed off. They do that in Mexico too. But don’t tell anybody because telling the truth is racist around here.

First of all, you’re misrepresenting Native American history. If you read about the Cherokee tribes, they tried to come into the mainstream of America. They were settled farmers living a peaceful life. It didn’t matter, though; the color of their skin was a good enough excuse to take their land. Indians couldn’t come into the mainstream of America because they weren’t permitted to do so.

I’m also curious as to where you get that claim that Mexicans have been sawing Americans heads off. Are you referring to the drug lords or something else?

The same guy decided to change his last name back to an Indian one just to make his mother happy. You wouldn’t believe how easy it was, he said. You fill out a few papers, you go before a judge, and bingo…I’m somebody else!

Yeah, it isn’t hard to legally change your name.

Yes! PBS did a documentary with people like Dan Rather, Andy Rooney, and others who have been around for years. They all say the same thing. American journalism is now minority motivated with a don’t ask, don’t tell feel. Most real reporters hate being told what NOT to report so they retire and write books. By the way, the news of today, IS the history of tomorrow.

We’re talking about revisionist history. Dan Rather and Andy Rooney are not historians, they are journalists. Use an example of a historian, please. We aren’t talking about journalism.

I was making a point about what goes unreported in mainstream media. What Americans don’t know about what goes on in their country is shocking! But what Americans refuse to fight for is even worse.

That’s great, but we’re talking about revisionist history. Please don’t change the subject on me.

Millions of illegals who SNEAK into this country prove you wrong. If they want to be treated just like the immigrants of the 20, 30, 40, etc., why are they using propaganda through churches to make it seem so holy. Why are they forming groups to attack US policy when they have no right to do so.

Just because they sneak into this country doesn’t mean they are an invading army. They aren’t organized, they’re just a collection of individual families trying to find a new home.

They aren’t using propaganda through churches; that would require them to be organized and in control of the churches, which they are not. Rather, the churches are deciding to defend them, and protest US policy, something anyone has a right to do.

You seem to live in a box for someone who is going to college. Robin Hood is a famous law breaker, an ANTI-HERO. Jesus is a famous revolutionary who also broke the rules, an ANTI-HERO. DUH!

Robin Hood is not an anti-hero, and neither is Christ. The traditional demeanor of an anti-hero is a character who does not have the traditional values, goals, or ideals of a hero, and undertakes his or heroic actions either reluctantly or for selfish reasons. Law-breaking alone does not make one an anti-hero.

Christ is the ultimate unselfish hero, possessing the highest of ideals. Robin Hood also fights, in the traditional stories, for the noble idea of robbing the rich to give to the poor and the restoration of King Richard. An anti-hero is somebody like Sam Spade.

Most Americans put up with it because they felt that if they survived the war, future generations would take care of them and carry on the duty to defend this country. How wrong they were!

Are you going to bother answering what I wrote?

I would have thought that was obvious considering the posts here. You do read them don’t you?

I read them, and I must admit that I’m rather confused, because you have successively identified the Mexicans, the college professors, and the Chinese as “the enemy”. Are these the groups you’re referring to? Are they all working together, or are they separate entities?

You can quote a bible that has been edited to death by man. It may even be an invention of a government to keep people under their thumb. Napoleon was quoted as saying, “Religion is good stuff for keeping common people quiet!”

So you aren’t a Christian, then?

 

[pnewton]

** “Love your enemy!” What nonsense! **

Again, since your start date was January 12th, for this account anyway, did you not realize that this was a Catholic website with a name like Catholic Answers? The words you call nonsense are fron He who created the universe and all people in it. Non-Christians who visit here are expected to show a little more respect for our faith, especially when deviating away from the Non-Catholic forum. This place presumes a Catholic point of view.

 

[catharina]

So you aren’t a Christian, then?

In his profile, truthsavesu identifies his “religion” as N/A. I’ve never heard of the religion called Not Applicable but maybe it means something to him. Oddly and sadly, although he sounds like a Far Right Fringe-conservative in spouting his anti-this and anti-this, his singular reference to Jesus Christ as an anti-hero, I say: big DUH.

says truthsavesu: “You seem to live in a box for someone who is going to college. Robin Hood is a famous law breaker, an ANTI-HERO. Jesus is a famous revolutionary who also broke the rules, an ANTI-HERO. DUH!”

That statement places truthsavesu among the Far Far Left of those Liberals who view religion at all. He’s pulled out the essence of Liberation Theology and supports it - although the Church has widely condemned it as a tool of communist sympathizers south of the border. Perhaps he received his education from the Aryan Nation???

 

[catharina]

Again, since your start date was January 12th, for this account anyway, did you not realize that this was a Catholic website with a name like Catholic Answers? The words you call nonsense are fron He who created the universe and all people in it. Non-Christians who visit here are expected to show a little more respect for our faith, especially when deviating away from the Non-Catholic forum. This place presumes a Catholic point of view.

Excellent. Thank you.

 

[polkadots]

Is it Right for the Catholic Church to fund groups that attack the American Way of Life?

My town not only has sanctuary for the invader but also refuses to aid or assist in any form the lawful Federal authorities.

**These invaders use the Catholic Church and other religious organizations as a home base to attack all the principles of the American way of life and to force local communities to adopt laws that make it easier for the invading criminals to overthrow our **America.

**This is no joke. This threatens every American citizen and the **America YOUR fathers fought for. IT MUST BE STOPPED!

Here is the website of an organization that is run out of the address of a Catholic Church in my town. This is the law that was forced on the people of an American town by Mexicans:

http://www.interfaithleadership.net/accomplishments.html

**Here is the same website bragging about how they forced a neighboring community to stop legislation that would allow the school districts and the town to share information about unlawful housing and registration benefits that illegals are receiving. **

http://www.interfaithleadership.net/issues.html

Notice how the language is such as to make it sound like a noble idea to keep families of immigrants together. I know people that are forced to sell their homes and leave that town because of the gang elements now forcing their way into the schools. But I guess these groups don’t warn people about that. They only want to overrun another American town like they did mine.

You can’t let this happen. If you do, there will be no safe place to live in America. Your children’s future depends on what you do today!

This is just wrong on so many levels. I can’t believe how many Americans feel this way and think that they are such great Christians. Shame on you!!!

 

[Lujack]

In his profile, truthsavesu identifies his “religion” as N/A. I’ve never heard of the religion called Not Applicable but maybe it means something to him. Oddly and sadly, although he sounds like a Far Right Fringe-conservative in spouting his anti-this and anti-this, his singular reference to Jesus Christ as an anti-hero, I say: big DUH.

Yeah, it did seem obvious, but I’ve been surprised so many times by various arguments that I just wanted him to say it.

 

[pnewton]

This is just wrong on so many levels. I can’t believe how many Americans feel this way and think that they are such great Christians.

No need to worry. Few Christians feel this way. This poster however does not claim Christianity, or American citizenship for that matter.

 

[polkadots]

That’s nice. Have you ever had drunken illegals walk up to you in Church and ask for money? Have you ever seen an illegal attack a senior citizen and fight her for her purse, in front of a Church, while she walked there for Sunday Mass.

Welcome to MY neighborhood!

We are told to turn the other cheek. Read your Bible.

 

[polkadots]

If their American, you feed them. If they are not, you show them the border.

I have no sympathy for a people who come from a country that would have been decent if they would have controlled themselves. No one forced them to overpopulate their countries. They did that grining from ear to ear. Now they want the US to pay the bill for their party. NO WAY!

Your opinions are so bad I almost think you are making fun of people who actually feel this way and yet I get the impression that you really do feel this way. I think I am having an aneurism now…

 

[Karen1960]

Is it Right for the Catholic Church to fund groups that attack the American Way of Life?

My town not only has sanctuary for the invader but also refuses to aid or assist in any form the lawful Federal authorities.

**These invaders use the Catholic Church and other religious organizations as a home base to attack all the principles of the American way of life and to force local communities to adopt laws that make it easier for the invading criminals to overthrow our **America.

**This is no joke. This threatens every American citizen and the **America YOUR fathers fought for. IT MUST BE STOPPED!

Here is the website of an organization that is run out of the address of a Catholic Church in my town. This is the law that was forced on the people of an American town by Mexicans:

http://www.interfaithleadership.net/accomplishments.html

**Here is the same website bragging about how they forced a neighboring community to stop legislation that would allow the school districts and the town to share information about unlawful housing and registration benefits that illegals are receiving. **

http://www.interfaithleadership.net/issues.html

Notice how the language is such as to make it sound like a noble idea to keep families of immigrants together. I know people that are forced to sell their homes and leave that town because of the gang elements now forcing their way into the schools. But I guess these groups don’t warn people about that. They only want to overrun another American town like they did mine.

You can’t let this happen. If you do, there will be no safe place to live in America. Your children’s future depends on what you do today!

Have you ever read Parable of The Good Samaritian? (Luke 10:30-37) If not please do, and if you did, please re-read.

No where does Jesus tell us to check green cards prior to helping out.

 

[hosemonkey]

hosemonkey;4664741:

(On a side note: hosemonkey, do you remember a ship by the name of ‘Apple’? Down on the Mekong River (in the Delta), shuttling us Infantry around?)

Yes, “Apple” was probably APL-55 and you must have been in the 9th Division. Those were the days. Welcome home brother.

 

[Tigg]

I have been in law enforcement most my adult life. I have on my desk the number to INS investigations and we regularly report **illegal aliens **when we come in contact with them as criminals. I know the investigator who determines immigration status as he is a frequent visitor. I only say this because I know some agencies have nothing to do with reporting immigration violation of criminals. I really don’t have much contact with the non-criminal element of illegal immigrants, with the one exception of those in large groups who trespass onto railroad property for shelter. They are routinely deported.

Thank you for using the correct terminology in your post. I do not subscribe to the politically correct group and although some are offended by the term “alien,” to say illegal immigrant is a misnomer because an “immigrant” technically is one who is here legally. But I digress.

There are many political forums who routinely post stories of ICE completely ignoring calls regarding illegal aliens. I, for one, would like to know, but do not understand the different roles of law enforcement in dealing with this problem. I have no idea what the difference is between INS and ICE. Does one deal exclusively with the criminal element as opposed to the other?

 

[Michael_David]

Again, since your start date was January 12th, for this account anyway, did you not realize that this was a Catholic website with a name like Catholic Answers? The words you call nonsense are fron He who created the universe and all people in it. Non-Christians who visit here are expected to show a little more respect for our faith, especially when deviating away from the Non-Catholic forum. This place presumes a Catholic point of view.

And that point of view is still being stated here… although not as loudly as the contrary.

Isn’t the 22% Catholics living in America also doing so within this ‘way of life’ while still practicing their faith? Any other form of religion or non-religion is also living within this ‘way of life’ we have here in this Country. We all have the law on our side to be able to practice our faith… Freely. Some have the legal-system as their allies for more enforcement of morality, but all in all, the common good is the main element. In this sense the Catholic Church and the USA are in agreement. There are some differences, and that is to be expected… unless one is in under the Church umbrella wearing a robe or collar.

All are trying to live their (perspective) Faith freely, some times elbow room is lost, or heads are bumped… these times, usually ‘sanity’ prevails and things are settled softly. Of course, history tells of times this has not worked and more forcefulness happened. But, who won and who lost those battles? Seems both sides received scars.

We Catholics tend to take the ‘longer view’ or ‘larger view’ to situations, even those that affect us directly. As, the longer view says that life is short… eternity is long… Also, I do not own this acre, it’s just rented… I’m only passing through this life, another awaits.

 

[pnewton]

There are many political forums who routinely post stories of ICE completely ignoring calls regarding illegal aliens… Does one deal exclusively with the criminal element as opposed to the other?

I am sure that the region one lives in has a lot to do with the type of response, as well as the way the complaint is issued. After all, hispanics don’t walk around with tags on their heads to mark them as citizen, legal immigrant and illegal. The average citizen does not know illegal aliens are illegal, as a rule. Heck we don’t know until a lengthy ID process. The federal government isn’t about to cross the line into harassing people for the way they look or even the language they speak.

Our region was one of the worst INS hubs a decade ago. This is not surprising since one mayor practically made his city a sanctuary for illegal immigrants, making it policy to never ask immigration status. This has to effect the local federal officials who work with them. Their reorganization from INS to Department of Homeland Security involved primarily getting new stationary.

 

[Michael_David]

Michael David;4666063:

Yes, “Apple” was probably APL-55 and you must have been in the 9th Division. Those were the days. Welcome home brother.

Yes I was in the 9th Inf. Thank you guys for giving us cover when needed… your efforts helped get me back here.

Nice seeing you here. It is a small world.

 

[ElizabethPH]

No need to worry. Few Christians feel this way. This poster however does not claim Christianity, or American citizenship for that matter.

I thought polkadots was referring to Bullfighter who does claim Catholic in his profile. The truthsavesu person doesn’t.