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catharina
Guest
Yes indeed.
Is it Right for the Catholic Church to fund groups that attack the American Way of Life?
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pnewton
Guest
At least I do not use any more demeaning term, or have for years, even at work, even though it was common when I was young. But then at work I have had to learn keep everything clean and above board lest I encourage others and make them think such terms are acceptable.
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maggiemay2u
Guest
The site deals with legal terminology. Please cite the site where the term “illegal alien” is restricted for use by any US court.
BTW, ICE hasn’t heard of the restriction…here’s their mission statement…ice.gov/about/index.htm
Even their press releases from 2009, yep, that would be now, haven’t gotten with the change in lingo…ice.gov/pi/news/newsreleases/
As far as I know ICE is still under the USDOJ
USDOJ press releases use the same old “illegal alien” term too (cause it’s legal terminology, not hate speech) searchjustice.usdoj.gov/search?q=illegal+aliens&btnG.x=36&btnG.y=13&btnG=Search&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=iso-8859-1&oe=UTF-8&client=default_frontend&proxystylesheet=default_frontend&site=default_collection
In my dealings with the feds and other states, the terminology has not veered from that which the courts understand, sorry, just my experience, yours is obviously different. Please cite.
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truthsavesu
Guest
ANOTHER GROUP OF IMMIGRANTS AND WHAT WONDERFUL THINGS THEY DID!
“The nation is at this time in a state of Revolution, North, South, East, and West,” wrote the Washington Times during the often violent protests that occurred after Abraham Lincoln issued the March 3, 1863, Enrollment Act of Conscription. Although demonstrations took place in many Northern cities, the riots that broke out in New York City were both the most violent and the most publicized.
With a large and powerful Democratic party operating in the city, a dramatic show of dissent had been long in the making. The state’s popular governor, Democrat Horatio Seymour, openly despised Lincoln and his policies. In addition, the Enrollment Act shocked a population already tired of the two-year-old war.
By the time the names of the first draftees were drawn in New York City on July 11, reports about the carnage of Gettysburg had been published in city papers. Lincoln’s call for 300,000 more young men to fight a seemingly endless war frightened even those who supported the Union cause. Moreover, the Enrollment Act contained several exemptions, including the payment of a “commutation fee” that allowed wealthier and more influential citizens to buy their way out of service.
Perhaps no group was more resentful of these inequities than the Irish immigrants populating the slums of northeastern cities. Poor and more than a little prejudiced against blacks-with whom they were both unfamiliar and forced to compete for the lowest-paying jobs-the Irish in New York objected to fighting on their behalf.
On Sunday, June 12, the names of the draftees drawn the day before by the Provost Marshall were published in newspapers. Within hours, groups of irate citizens, many of them Irish immigrants, banded together across the city. Eventually numbering some 50,000 people, the mob terrorized neighborhoods on the East Side of New York for three days looting scores of stores. Blacks were the targets of most attacks on citizens; several lynchings and beatings occurred. In addition, a black church and orphanage were burned to the ground.
All in all, the mob caused more than $1.5 million of damage. The number killed or wounded during the riot is unknown, but estimates range from two dozen to nearly 100. Eventually, Lincoln deployed combat troops from the Federal Army of the Potomac to restore order; they remained encamped around the city for several weeks. In the end, the draft raised only about 150,000 troops throughout the North, about three-quarters of them substitutes, amounting to just one-fifth of the total Union force.
Source: The Civil War Society’s “Encyclopedia of the Civil War”
“The nation is at this time in a state of Revolution, North, South, East, and West,” wrote the Washington Times during the often violent protests that occurred after Abraham Lincoln issued the March 3, 1863, Enrollment Act of Conscription. Although demonstrations took place in many Northern cities, the riots that broke out in New York City were both the most violent and the most publicized.
With a large and powerful Democratic party operating in the city, a dramatic show of dissent had been long in the making. The state’s popular governor, Democrat Horatio Seymour, openly despised Lincoln and his policies. In addition, the Enrollment Act shocked a population already tired of the two-year-old war.
By the time the names of the first draftees were drawn in New York City on July 11, reports about the carnage of Gettysburg had been published in city papers. Lincoln’s call for 300,000 more young men to fight a seemingly endless war frightened even those who supported the Union cause. Moreover, the Enrollment Act contained several exemptions, including the payment of a “commutation fee” that allowed wealthier and more influential citizens to buy their way out of service.
Perhaps no group was more resentful of these inequities than the Irish immigrants populating the slums of northeastern cities. Poor and more than a little prejudiced against blacks-with whom they were both unfamiliar and forced to compete for the lowest-paying jobs-the Irish in New York objected to fighting on their behalf.
On Sunday, June 12, the names of the draftees drawn the day before by the Provost Marshall were published in newspapers. Within hours, groups of irate citizens, many of them Irish immigrants, banded together across the city. Eventually numbering some 50,000 people, the mob terrorized neighborhoods on the East Side of New York for three days looting scores of stores. Blacks were the targets of most attacks on citizens; several lynchings and beatings occurred. In addition, a black church and orphanage were burned to the ground.
All in all, the mob caused more than $1.5 million of damage. The number killed or wounded during the riot is unknown, but estimates range from two dozen to nearly 100. Eventually, Lincoln deployed combat troops from the Federal Army of the Potomac to restore order; they remained encamped around the city for several weeks. In the end, the draft raised only about 150,000 troops throughout the North, about three-quarters of them substitutes, amounting to just one-fifth of the total Union force.
Source: The Civil War Society’s “Encyclopedia of the Civil War”
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truthsavesu
Guest
I prefer “invader” like most veterans and Americans. To even think that these people are harmless immigrants wanting only to become Americans is ridiculous and dangerous.
That is like viewing gang members as just a bunch of “mischievous kids”. What a world you must live in. Take off your blinders and open your eyes. Stop living in your “God will take care of everything world”. God wants US to take care of this world. If it means war,so be it. Thy will be done!
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truthsavesu
Guest
Read the OP.
Is it right for the Catholic Church to push it’s own American poor people aside and devote the majority of its donations to fund “terrorist” groups that endanger the lives of loyal American citizens.
And groups that organize armies of thousands of marchers, waving foreign flags to intimidate Americans are just as threatening as suicide bombers. They are just as hateful as the Nazis marching down the streets of Paris in WW2. Therefore the label “terrorists” is accurate.
If they can force American town and cities to change laws to make a haven for foreign gangsters, then you are no longer supporting loyal Americans. You are killing them.
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truthsavesu
Guest
Where do you think you have a right to exclude YOURSELF from battling an evil invading army? You are supposed to fight evil where it exist. The US has a record of doing the same thing. What gives YOU the right to stay on the sidelines and let others fight your part of the battle?
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Michael_David
Guest
Since we are talking IF’s and these are BIG IF’s, who can say for sure what they will do IF the lead-in full environment (lived through for some time prior) felt by the people and the country, when the many heads in Washington DC (with Classified info) ‘officially’ declare a war. However, in order to ‘give to Caesar’ one’s duty is to side with one’s country.
As I am a Vietnam Vet, that (by the way) was classed as a ‘police action’… not a war, although I received combat pay. As most of you know, when us guys came back, we were not treated very well… till some 40 years later. WHY???
‘Just War’ is another misnomer. If any skirmish is to be judged by ‘solely’ moral standards… who’s morals are used? Who says a war is just or not… the President? The Pope? The Congress/Senate? The protesters carrying signs? The soldier? How about the individual? NOW, when is this determined… before it is declared? During the war after the first year? After the troops come home? Ten years later? Forty years later?
Using this method, those that skipped to Canada, although thinking they were following God’s Will by not fighting in an ‘unjust’ ‘police action’, are now known to have done their own ‘personal’ selfish will, and did not ‘give to Caesar’… although they have been pardoned.
The relevance of which is more important, God or Country, does not come into play here. If the world is one big social network, as the Catholic’s believe, then are we ‘our brothers keeper’? And are we also not judged on how we treat the ‘least of His flock’? And did Christ Himself not give His very Body and Blood (unjustly I may add… He did not do anything wrong) for our Salvation? You see, it is not so much that one is ‘walking through the valley of the shadow of death’, it is who one has as their ‘rod and staff’… how one behaves during this part of life’s journey. To respond with Faith rather then Fear! And that is God’s Will…
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truthsavesu
Guest
I have read your post with interest. The United States and its citizens have treated the “far from least” flocks with billions of dollars of aid for decades but all this did was make their populations grow and not their self determination.
Their answer to THEIR problem is to sneak into the US and set up bases of resistance like the OP suggests. If you flood a country with people that are loyal to you cause, you win! I don’t see people from the countries of the world represented in those “immigration” rallies. If that isn’t an invading army to the rest of America, I now know why 9-11 was so easy to pull off.
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PaulinVA
Guest
Bullfighter, I am a veteran and an American, and I distance myself as far as I can from your xenophobic hatred.
The world is made up of individuals. Some are law abiding. Some are not. God loves them all.
Yes, gang membership is illegal in most places. There are violent people in the world.
I would suggest that you start with loving those who you hate. Anybody can love those that are lovable.
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grampben
Guest
You don’t seem to know the ‘Just War’ theory formulated by Augustine and developed by Thomas Aquinas. The church follows this teaching as far as I know. To be a just war it must fit the criteria of this theory.
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truthsavesu
Guest
So you believe that the America christian should be a punching bag for any group that sneaks across the border?
And locking the truth away will not save you from He who will judge you by how you judged others and how you neglected a country that others died for!
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Karen1960
Guest
Sir, you are sadly mistaken, God wants us to take care of each other. If someone needs and wants my help, I will help them.
Something to think about,
Unless you are a Native American, many of our ancestors were “illegal” at one point, pushing their way of life onto others.
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Michael_David
Guest
truthsavesu, you and I have some things in common… and some things that are non-common… as most all people have with other people. We are both concerned about our country, especially when it ‘hit’s home’.
I believe in informing the powers that be, whether Church or Country, of my concerns, experiences, beliefs… since there are many powers much bigger then me… the Caesars… over me. But, if they do not know what is going on in the ‘trenches’, how can they effectively address any of the peoples concerns, if they are not on the ‘table of discussion’??? The point is to make one’s point… what happens next, if anything, is what happens next; and to become a ‘vigilante’ one has to then consider the consequences in relation to the ‘existing’ powers that be. Yes, this country was founded on ‘rebels’… but the fight with the ‘red coats’ left many on both sides gone or worse off, but ultimately created the New World as we know it.
I agree, not all coming to this country has noble causes. Some would like to knock the ‘king off the hill’… and become the next ‘king on the hill’. We see this every 2 and 4 years with voting; we see this with retail competition daily; we see this in the work-place between employees; we see this with the gangs fighting for turf; everyone is fighting for ‘MORE’ of something… for themselves. But to fight for more of something for ‘another’ is another story. How often does one see this happening? You have to look long and hard to see this happening, it is out there, but less obvious.
For me, I like peaceful solutions to todays problems. Raising ‘awareness’ through various means is what I prefer. But, if push comes to shove, a soldier I will be. Yes, we are told to turn the other cheek… however, I only have two cheeks. Local issues are usually handled locally, although with the national awareness, in case it exists at other locations as well. Government satisfaction is about 50-50… But, the 50% addressed is better then keeping it out of the hands of those that can do something about it, and having only a 0% addressed rate… to increase the blood pressure another notch. There were those informing the authorities prior to 9-11 of things, but the government sought more proof, and delayed long enough for it to happen… and thereby prove it. We took a big hit on the cheek… now the battle continues.
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truthsavesu
Guest
The only ground anyone is entitled to is the ground he is willing to fight for!Sir, you are sadly mistaken, God wants us to take care of each other. If someone needs and wants my help, I will help them.
Something to think about,
Unless you are a Native American, many of our ancestors were “illegal” at one point, pushing their way of life onto others.
When you talk about Native Americans, why don’t you bring up cavemen too! What about Adam and Eve.
If you claim their should be no borders then be prepared to open the door of your house and let anyone take what they like because that door would be a border for some.
Anyone who wants to go back in time and live like an Indian is welcome to do so. But anyone who claims that Americans encroached on the Indians and should give the land back or should feel ashamed is a hypocrite for living here.
Most Americans had nothing to do with enslaving anyone. Most African slaves were “owned” by less than 1% of the southern population. Slaves were not cheap by the way.
If you have some crazy kind of guilt that needs to be addressed than open YOUR house to the poor and feed them. God wants YOU to feed the poor American, not to feed "not so poor people"from south of the border.
I have known Mexicans in the past. They can live like “kings” in Mexico on what the average American makes here. That’s what THEY tell me.
Sell your guilt somewhere else. I’m one of those poor Americans.
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Michael_David
Guest
Just like the Church informs me of morals so I can develop a fully formed conscience, they do this with war also following criteria of theory. Are ‘police actions’ included in on this?
The Priest’s have thanked me for my doing my service duty, so the Vietnam War must of been just. When I got my draft notice, I had not heard or asked any Church Official if it was or not… Caesar had called.
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catharina
Guest
As I said prior: "Per usual you ignored my point.
My POINT: you cannot PRETEND that hating “your enemy” is in any way a Christian behavior. It’s not. It’s the opposite of Christian practice."
Others have said it too. You should NOT pretend that you are in line with Christian teaching when you promote HATRED. Since you’ve also said that you “believe” that ‘most Americans and most veterans’ think as you do, I can only say that your views are based in obvious delusion or worse - and that has nothing to do with Chirstianity.
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Karen1960
Guest
Truthsaveu,
You seem to have other problems in your life that go beyond that of illegals, perhaps spending sometime in prayer might help.
If you are one of those poor Americans, if you are truly hungry and poor, I know that no Church will turn you away. As Jesus tells us ask and you shall recieve.
C
catharina
Guest
No surprise that in the end it’s all about you!
Get a job.
Get a second job.
Get a third job.
Spend less.
Move to Mexico.
Many others around the world have many needs greater than yours. If you weren’t so incredibly intolerant in your speech and thinking, maybe more people would be willing to take a chance and help YOU!
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truthsavesu
Guest
Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
I was watching a show on Muslims and terrorists and one Muslim was trying to explain the difference in the way he was brought up.
He said, “For the Christian, if someone slap your cheek, you offer the other to be slapped.”
“To a Muslim, if you slap his cheek, he slaps both of yours.”
This is the difference and Muslims have survived and thrived for many years because of it.
By preventing one war, you could be starting ten others.
Ask yourself this. What country would encourage their people to invade to US is Putin were in charge.
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