Is it Right for the Catholic Church to fund groups that attack the American Way of Life?

[maggiemay2u]

Well closing the borders because one particular group ‘‘has taken enough’’ is not the answer either.

With regard to my vitriol towards bullfighter/truthsavesu. I call it like I see it, and I see racism. I’ve seen, dealt with, recieved and confronted enough to know it whatever disguise it wants to wear. If that is not the case I will withdraw my statement when satisfactory evidence to the contrary has been produced.

Sister Serena never let us bring forth a problem without at least three solutions…you say you don’t like closing the borders (btw, I mean North, South, East and West, and from the air, if we (and I do, consider overstayed visas as part of the illegal immigration issue)) What are your solutions to the numbers of poor, and not so poor, globally, who want to come to the US?

As for the vitriol, didn’t mom ever tell you that just because Johnny jumped off the bridge, didn’t mean that you should do it, too?

 

[LDNCatholic]

Sister Serena never let us bring forth a problem without at least three solutions…you say you don’t like closing the borders (btw, I mean North, South, East and West, and from the air, if we (and I do, consider overstayed visas as part of the illegal immigration issue)) What are your solutions to the numbers of poor, and not so poor, who want to come to the US?

As for the vitriol, didn’t mom ever tell you that just because Johnny jumped off the bridge, didn’t mean that you should do it, too?

Sorry…my mother was too busy being spat at in the street and kicked out of shops because of her nationality and the fact that she was an immigrant to teach me the lesson of being a good little boy and keeping my mouth shut when racism is being thrown around like confetti.

I am not an American, I would not presume to provide answers to what is an American problem. But I am pro immigration, without it I would not exist. I can only tell you the Christian solution to the poor immigrants. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless.

Just as a talking point, I believe I read somewhere that cruelty to the foreigner is one of four sins that cry out to Heaven for vengeance. I’d say denying them shelter falls under that category.

Oh and the ‘‘give a man a fish’’ quote, I believe it is often attributed to Lao Tzu.

 

[Ghoti]

Sorry…my mother was too busy being spat at in the street and kicked out of shops because of her nationality and the fact that she was an immigrant to teach me the lesson of being a good little boy and keeping my mouth shut when racism is being thrown around like confetti.

I am not an American, I would not presume to provide answers to what is an American problem. But I am pro immigration, without it I would not exist. I can only tell you the Christian solution to the poor immigrants. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless.

Just as a talking point, I believe I read somewhere that cruelty to the foreigner is one of four sins that cry out to Heaven for vengeance. I’d say denying them shelter falls under that category.

Oh and the ‘‘give a man a fish’’ quote, I believe it is often attributed to Lao Tzu.

“Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish, and he’ll never be home on weekends.”
– Mrs Lao-Tzu

 

[LDNCatholic]

“Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish, and he’ll never be home on weekends.”
– Mrs Lao-Tzu

 

[Tigg]

And, does the Church consider this Mexican ‘invasion’ just? One that we are to condone?

This seems to me to be the very crux of the matter we are exploring. Because I live in a sanctuary town, and state (of sorts,) all we hear from the pulpit is that the Church is working for immigration reform. What exactly does this mean. Does it mean amnesty? I highly suspect it does. And yet, where is the social justice for those adversely affected by the invasion. The ones who have had stolen identities, stolen work records, stolen jobs? Where is the social justice for thousands of blacks (citizens) in the south who used to work in industries no longer hiring them because of illegals? What about the effects of taxpayers paying upwards of $339 billion annually with a now seriously failing economy along with an over-burdened educational system, and hospitals running huge deficits nearing bankruptcy? What about the rising crime rate?

Indeed, is this a just situation? And I believe that as far as the Church in America, the call to help the poor at any expense, is mired, once again, in the humanist, Marxist doctrine of liberation theology.

 

[Tigg]

I am not an American, I would not presume to provide answers to what is an American problem. But I am pro immigration, without it I would not exist. I can only tell you the Christian solution to the poor immigrants. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless.

**Okay - time for some practicality…we could be talking upwards of 32 million people in this country here, illegally! It’s fine by me to be pro-immigration and legal, but let’s not cloud the issue. Do we house, feed, clothe, and educate them all until they decide to cross over the border and return home to their own country? Pragmatically, just how does a country take on a burden like that for years and years? **

Just as a talking point, I believe I read somewhere that cruelty to the foreigner is one of four sins that cry out to Heaven for vengeance. I’d say denying them shelter falls under that category.

**I’m certain you know this, but America is a nation of foreigners. Germans, Polish, Irish, Italians…all have made their way here and successfully assimilated into our country. They all had hard times, but they never expected, nor did they receive any help from government. ** The only help my grandparents received was from small church-sponsored groups.

 

[grampben]

Okay - time for some practicality…we could be talking upwards of 32 million people in this country here, illegally! It’s fine by me to be pro-immigration and legal, but let’s not cloud the issue. Do we house, feed, clothe, and educate them all until they decide to cross over the border and return home to their own country? Pragmatically, just how does a country take on a burden like that for years and years?

Noone is pro ‘illegal immigration’ as such. But many people want the laws to be weaker. Regardless of legal status however, they are human beings, and we have a moral obligation to help them.

 

[LDNCatholic]

I couldn’t care less about pragmatism. Pragmatism only comes into play when I am thinking of the most effective method of carrying out the will of God. God said feed the hungry, we should feed them. God said clothe the naked we should clothe them. God said give shelter to the homeless we should provide shelter to them.

Yes, I am aware that America is made up of many many nations, colours, creeds, nearly all of them foreign. That does not negate the fact that cruelty to the foreigner is defined as one of the four sins that cry out to Heaven for vengeance.

 

[grampben]

I couldn’t care less about pragmatism. Pragmatism only comes into play when I am thinking of the most effective method of carrying out the will of God. God said feed the hungry, we should feed them. God said clothe the naked we should clothe them. God said give shelter to the homeless we should provide shelter to them.

Yes, I am aware that America is made up of many many nations, colours, creeds, nearly all of them foreign. That does not negate the fact that cruelty to the foreigner is defined as one of the four sins that cry out to Heaven for vengeance.

It could be argued that cruelty to foreigners was one of the sins of Sodom

 

[pnewton]

It could be argued that cruelty to foreigners was one of the sins of Sodom

That one is a little of a stretch since cruelty in that situation meant want to literally rape them. Anyway, the story of the strangers is irrelevant. Sodom was already condemned for destruction before they arrived.

 

[Tigg]

I couldn’t care less about pragmatism. Pragmatism only comes into play when I am thinking of the most effective method of carrying out the will of God. God said feed the hungry, we should feed them. God said clothe the naked we should clothe them. God said give shelter to the homeless we should provide shelter to them.

Yes, I am aware that America is made up of many many nations, colours, creeds, nearly all of them foreign. That does not negate the fact that cruelty to the foreigner is defined as one of the four sins that cry out to Heaven for vengeance.

Okay, then, how about a little reality instead? You don’t live in this country but you are automatically assuming the anti-illegal group is being mean and heartless in not providing continual care for millions and millions of people. We will soon need another miracle like the feeding of the 5,000 because the truth of the matter is, many Americans are now having trouble even feeding their own families. The food bank in my town is nearly always empty!

And here ya, go! Another dose of reality…this is the truth regarding the border states of the good ole U.S. of A.

One of the most dangerous places on earth is our own 2,000 mile border with Mexico. Our southern border is a drug war zone, and we are losing the fight. Know it.

So dangerous is our border that Arizona Governor Napolitano has declared a state of emergency along the Arizona/Mexico border due to drug trafficking, shootouts and an increasing illegal immigration invasion.

Our Justice Department stated in April that Mexican drug cartels are the “largest threat to both citizens and law enforcement agencies in this country and now have gang members in nearly 200 U.S. cities.” This in the big, bad, brave United States of America! How can this be? DOJ admits it, so now what?

                     Read this rest:

humanevents.com/article.php?id=30247

 

[grampben]

That one is a little of a stretch since cruelty in that situation meant want to literally rape them. Anyway, the story of the strangers is irrelevant. Sodom was already condemned for destruction before they arrived.

Very true, but they were inhospitable to strangers.

 

[pnewton]

Maybe you can help? Is this a site where Catholics figure out what is wrong and try to fix it or is this just another “lets see what the bible says” website for people who run from life instead of facing life’s problems.

The Bible is presumed to be the divine word of God in this particular forum. If you do not see the Bible as a solid source of instruction, you will find little agreement here. The fact that you draw a dichotomy between facing problems and following the Bible shows that you do not understand what the Bible is. It is not running away to get the best advice possible, that from our Creator.

 

[grampben]

Okay, then, how about a little reality instead? You don’t live in this country but you are automatically assuming the anti-illegal group is being mean and heartless in not providing continual care for millions and millions of people. We will soon need another miracle like the feeding of the 5,000 because the truth of the matter is, many Americans are now having trouble even feeding their own families. The food bank in my town is nearly always empty!

And here ya, go! Another dose of reality…this is the truth regarding the border states of the good ole U.S. of A.

                     Read this rest:

humanevents.com/article.php?id=30247

He’s British as far as I know, and the UK has a large ‘problem’ with ‘aliens’ too.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Okay, then, how about a little reality instead? You don’t live in this country but you are automatically assuming the anti-illegal group is being mean and heartless in not providing continual care for millions and millions of people. We will soon need another miracle like the feeding of the 5,000 because the truth of the matter is, many Americans are now having trouble even feeding their own families. The food bank in my town is nearly always empty!

Read my earlier posts. I was not condeming ‘‘anti illegal’’ groups. I was stating that there was racism. I stand by that.

Grampben is right that the U.K has a problem with people entering by unnofficial channels.

But he got one part wrong. I’m not British…not fully anyway and not in terms of citizenship.

 

[LDNCatholic]

As for the US-Mexican border being one of the most dangerous places on Earth, bull. Pure bull.

Tell that to the people of Gaza, Mogadishu, Baghdad, Kabul, Johannesburg, Columbia, the Congo, Zimbabwe, Kashmir, the list goes on.

 

[catharina]

The site deals with legal terminology. Please cite the site where the term “illegal alien” is restricted for use by any US court.

BTW, ICE hasn’t heard of the restriction…here’s their mission statement…ice.gov/about/index.htm

Even their press releases from 2009, yep, that would be now, haven’t gotten with the change in lingo…ice.gov/pi/news/newsreleases/

As far as I know ICE is still under the USDOJ

USDOJ press releases use the same old “illegal alien” term too (cause it’s legal terminology, not hate speech) searchjustice.usdoj.gov/search?q=illegal+aliens&btnG.x=36&btnG.y=13&btnG=Search&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=iso-8859-1&oe=UTF-8&client=default_frontend&proxystylesheet=default_frontend&site=default_collection

In my dealings with the feds and other states, the terminology has not veered from that which the courts understand, sorry, just my experience, yours is obviously different. Please cite.

Sure. My experience in working for DOJ in the shelter program for children lasted a period of two years betwn '97 and '99. It’s entirely likely (I guess) that terms that were more respectful terms (like Undocumented Children) were dropped in favor of the more typical terms of disrespect (like Illegal Children). Lots of attitudes and terminolgy changed in this country after 09-11. Any more details regarding programming for trafficked and sold and traded children are still on the QT. (Sorry.)

 

[grampben]

But he got one part wrong. I’m not British…not fully anyway and not in terms of citizenship.

Apologies

 

[Tigg]

As for the US-Mexican border being one of the most dangerous places on Earth, bull. Pure bull.

Tell that to the people of Gaza, Mogadishu, Baghdad, Kabul, Johannesburg, Columbia, the Congo, Zimbabwe, Kashmir, the list goes on.

Well, I had just received that article from a conservative internet newsletter moments before my post, and hyperbole aside, you have to remember - Americans simply are not used to decapitations, murders, kidnappings and gun wars of this magnitude in their own country.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Apologies

Not to worry mate, you weren’t to know . I was raised here but my mum’s Irish and my dads English/Roma, so I guess I’m part British but my passport and citizenship say otherwise.