Is it Right for the Catholic Church to fund groups that attack the American Way of Life?

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Tigg said:
Well, I had just received that article from a conservative internet newsletter moments before my post, and hyperbole aside, you have to remember - Americans simply are not used to decapitations, murders, kidnappings and gun wars of this magnitude in their own country.
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Now that may be true. I can see that being closer to the truth. That is a point I might concede if I had the time tonight to check just how many decapitations, murders, kidnaps, gun wars etc related to the influx of Mexican immigrants. If you have some statistics for me to look at, from as neutral as possible a source.
 
Michael_David said:
Thank you!
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You’re welcome and for those who have never heard of the works "of mercy …

The traditional enumeration of the corporal works of mercy is as follows:
  • To feed the hungry;
  • To give drink to the thirsty;
  • To clothe the naked;
  • To harbour the harbourless;
  • To visit the sick;
  • To ransom the captive;
  • To bury the dead.
    The spiritual works of mercy are:
  • To instruct the ignorant;
  • To counsel the doubtful;
  • To admonish sinners;
  • To bear wrongs patiently;
  • To forgive offences willingly;
  • To comfort the afflicted;
  • To pray for the living and the dead. "
    from newadvent site
 
Agreed, when it comes to policies towards immigrants, illegal or otherwise, the works of mercy, both corporal and spiritual should be our guide.
 
LDNCatholic said:
Now that may be true. I can see that being closer to the truth. That is a point I might concede if I had the time tonight to check just how many decapitations, murders, kidnaps, gun wars etc related to the influx of Mexican immigrants. If you have some statistics for me to look at, from as neutral as possible a source.
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I believe I have already posted many of these articles on different threads, but I might try to find you something. And the original post that led to all of this was regarding the question of justice as the Church sees it and how it relates to the adverse effects of illegal immigration.

BTW, declaring a state of emergency is not something you read about too often around here except in instances regarding natural disasters.
 
catharina said:
You’re welcome and for those who have never heard of the works "of mercy …

The traditional enumeration of the corporal works of mercy is as follows:
  • To feed the hungry;
  • To give drink to the thirsty;
  • To clothe the naked;
  • To harbour the harbourless;
  • To visit the sick;
  • To ransom the captive;
  • To bury the dead.
    The spiritual works of mercy are:
  • To instruct the ignorant;
  • To counsel the doubtful;
  • To admonish sinners;
  • To bear wrongs patiently;
  • To forgive offences willingly;
  • To comfort the afflicted;
  • To pray for the living and the dead. "
    from newadvent site
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👍 Thank you for posting this!
We must remember we are Catholic first. Our Church is Universal.
 
Tigg said:
And the original post that led to all of this was regarding the question of justice as the Church sees it and how it relates to the adverse effects of illegal immigration.
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Whatever the original post appeared to be all it became was a springboard for a guy who really dislikes Mexicans to begin a tirade, then re register to begin all over again, in this thread and another, now mercifully closed, one.

Oh and thanks a lot for offering to find me those statistics 🙂
 
LDNCatholic said:
Well closing the borders because one particular group ‘‘has taken enough’’ is not the answer either.

With regard to my vitriol towards bullfighter/truthsavesu. I call it like I see it, and I see racism. I’ve seen, dealt with, recieved and confronted enough to know it whatever disguise it wants to wear. If that is not the case I will withdraw my statement when satisfactory evidence to the contrary has been produced.
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Evil to those who evil think it.
 
truthsavesu said:
Evil to those who evil think it.
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Why are you so angry? What religion do you belong to? Perhaps speaking the leader of your church might help. Seriously you seem to hold a lot of anger. I have seen people upset over illegal immigration, but not to the extreme you seem to be heading. We are all children of God.
 
let me clarify myself. I don’t know of any Catholics that fund terrorist and that stuff. I am am opposed to that, but fighting against abortion and pro choice it is ok
 
There was a brief moment several years ago when the invaders were terrified.

They used to parade around with their foreign flags waving out of cars and their cheap music screaming from balconies and their cocky attitudes daring Americans to prove how tough they are. “Look, the people that won the wars can even take us on in their own backyards. They’re all cowards.”

Then suddenly 9-11, and there was silence. And the foreign flags were taken down. And the cheap music was silenced. And the cocky attitudes were humbled. And the Lord showed me this and I was able to recognize it for what it was. They were terrified. Terrified of Americans. Terrified that when Americans get mad, they get even.

They were the foreigners and America was attacked just like at Pearl Harbor. They felt that the demoralized Americans whom they had laughed at would suddenly become avenging soldiers like their fathers had become after the attack in 1941. They were terrified of Americans and God allowed me to see this to which I will be to Him eternally grateful.

But the days and the weeks went by and no avenging took place. They began to group together in larger numbers. They cleared their throats and returned to their foreign flag waving, cheap music blaring, and cocky attitudes.

But oh Lord thank you for that vision of a humbled enemy. I see the coward for who he is and I am not afraid.

No man stands so tall as he who stands alone.
 
If memory serves 9-11 scared a lot of Americans too.

So now you are a prophet, God speaks to you and shows you that America will crush all foreigners.

Hmmm, Jesus said something about false prophets.

You keep speaking of vengeance, as if you deserve it, as if it is yours to give, as if it is your right. It isn’t.

‘‘Vengeance is Mine’’ Saith the Lord.

I praise God you do not represent the average American.
 
LDNCatholic said:
If memory serves 9-11 scared a lot of Americans too.

So now you are a prophet, God speaks to you and shows you that America will crush all foreigners.

Hmmm, Jesus said something about false prophets.

You keep speaking of vengeance, as if you deserve it, as if it is yours to give, as if it is your right. It isn’t.

‘‘Vengeance is Mine’’ Saith the Lord.

I praise God you do not represent the average American.
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Can you explain to me why people who find the truth I speak offensive keep coming back to hear more of it?
 
truthsavesu said:
Maybe you can help? Is this a site where Catholics figure out what is wrong and try to fix it or is this just another “lets see what the bible says” website for people who run from life instead of facing life’s problems.
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If you’re asking me whether this site exists to allow Catholics to figure out “what is wrong” and try to fix it, then I have no answer for you. Ask a Moderator. If you’re wondering whether this FORUM (“Apologetics”) is the forum for such give-and-take, then I’ll say “No. It isn’t.”

Apologetics as defined on a secular site (dictionary.com):

noun (used with a singular verb**) **
the branch of theology concerned with the defense or proof of Christianity.

So the Apologetics Forum on Catholic Answers is here to enable presentation of actual Church Teaching. Thos who come to this forum and state “the Church doesn’t teach that” or the Church is wrong to teach this or that" will be corrected if they are stating error. For example, you claim we are to hate our enemy. Actual Church Teaching is that we are to love our enemy, to pray for those who persecute us. We are not free to invent Church Teaching like “hate your enemy.”
 
truthsavesu said:
Can you explain to me why people who find the truth I speak offensive keep coming back to hear more of it?
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We need to keep coming back because what you are saying is not what Catholics believe.
I am a Catholic first, an American second.

Sorry if you find that offensive, but nothing you say will change that fact.
 
truthsavesu said:
  • And the Lord showed me this and I was able to recognize it for what it was.* They were terrified. Terrified of Americans. Terrified that when Americans get mad, they get even.
They were the foreigners and America was attacked just like at Pearl Harbor. They felt that the demoralized Americans whom they had laughed at would suddenly become avenging soldiers like their fathers had become after the attack in 1941. They were terrified of Americans and God allowed me to see this to which I will be to Him eternally grateful.
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**Excuse me, fella’. **
This site forbids posting/supporting private revelation.
You might want to study the rules here.
**Like in the military? **
Check out what’s ALLOWED and what isn’t.
 
truthsavesu said:
There was a brief moment several years ago when the invaders were terrified.
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What?
They used to parade around with their foreign flags waving out of cars and their cheap music screaming from balconies and their cocky attitudes daring Americans to prove how tough they are. “Look, the people that won the wars can even take us on in their own backyards. They’re all cowards.”
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Go to New York on St. Patrick’s Day. Tell me how many foreign flags you see, and tell me if that means that the Irish are daring Americans to prove how tough they are. Heck, there was a brigade in the Army of the Potomac in the Civil War that fought under what was essentially a foreign flag, but they laid down their lives for their country.
Then suddenly 9-11, and there was silence. And the foreign flags were taken down. And the cheap music was silenced. And the cocky attitudes were humbled. And the Lord showed me this and I was able to recognize it for what it was. They were terrified. Terrified of Americans. Terrified that when Americans get mad, they get even.
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If I was a Mexican, and I thought that the US response to an attack by Arab terrorists from Afghanistan was going to be an assault on Catholics from Latin America, I’d be pretty disturbed, because that would mean that the most powerful country in the world is completely unhinged.

Also, are you claiming that God showed you a vision?
They were the foreigners and America was attacked just like at Pearl Harbor. They felt that the demoralized Americans whom they had laughed at would suddenly become avenging soldiers like their fathers had become after the attack in 1941. They were terrified of Americans and God allowed me to see this to which I will be to Him eternally grateful.
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Americans were demoralized in 2000? I don’t think so. We were pretty darn happy on 9/10/2001. Maybe concerned about a few nagging issues, but we weren’t demoralized by any means.
But the days and the weeks went by and no avenging took place. They began to group together in larger numbers. They cleared their throats and returned to their foreign flag waving, cheap music blaring, and cocky attitudes.
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Do you think these things at the St. Patrick’s Day Parade?
But oh Lord thank you for that vision of a humbled enemy. I see the coward for who he is and I am not afraid.

No man stands so tall as he who stands alone.
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Are you claiming a vision from God?
 
LDNCatholic said:
Sorry…my mother was too busy being spat at in the street and kicked out of shops because of her nationality and the fact that she was an immigrant to teach me the lesson of being a good little boy and keeping my mouth shut when racism is being thrown around like confetti.

I am not an American, I would not presume to provide answers to what is an American problem. But I am pro immigration, without it I would not exist. I can only tell you the Christian solution to the poor immigrants. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless.

Just as a talking point, I believe I read somewhere that cruelty to the foreigner is one of four sins that cry out to Heaven for vengeance. I’d say denying them shelter falls under that category.

Oh and the ‘‘give a man a fish’’ quote, I believe it is often attributed to Lao Tzu.
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My friend, I too, am multicultural and have faced some nastiness, my grandmother had it especially rough. That fact however, does not color my reason from wanting solutions for root causes. You are not a US citizen. May I ask the country of your citizenship? I’m curious as to the immigration rules.

To shut one’s eyes to actual solutions and stay mired feel good mode is defeating.I’m a firm believer in assisting individuals in countries to build and take control of their own destiny. Does that mean I hate the immigrant? On the contrary. I want the individual to have the same thing I do–choice. I don’t want to be beholden to someone else for what I have (other than God) and I don’t want anyone beholden to me or the government for charity. Does that mean I don’t supply the local food bank and donation centers? No. It means I look beyond the rhetoric and extremism.

Perhaps I’m oblique. How is this not Christian?
 
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