Is it Right for the Catholic Church to fund groups that attack the American Way of Life?

[truthsavesu]

Dude, HEADS UP!

Everyone suffers. It’s the human condition.

Stalin is quoted as saying:

“The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of a million men is a statistic”

The problem with those foreign groups is that they ruined their own countries by overpopulation. Why should Americans be held accountable for that?

 

[catharina]

What is truly unjust is covered by a thin veil called “social justice,” and again, those who do not tout this philosophy are labeled racists and xenophobes.

Yoo-hoo? Social Justice is a VIRTUE, not a “thin veil.”

Speaking of catechesis, drop your needlepoint and read this:

"**SECTION ONE
MAN’S VOCATION LIFE IN THE SPIRIT **

CHAPTER TWO
THE HUMAN COMMUNION
**ARTICLE 3
SOCIAL JUSTICE **
**1928 **Society ensures social justice when it provides the conditions that allow associations or individuals to obtain what is their due, according to their nature and their vocation. Social justice is linked to the common good and the exercise of authority.
**I. RESPECT FOR THE HUMAN PERSON **
**1929 **Social justice can be obtained only in respecting the transcendent dignity of man. The person represents the ultimate end of society, which is ordered to him:
What is at stake is the dignity of the human person, whose defense and promotion have been entrusted to us by the Creator, and to whom the men and women at every moment of history are strictly and responsibly in debt.35
**1930 **Respect for the human person entails respect for the rights that flow from his dignity as a creature. These rights are prior to society and must be recognized by it. They are the basis of the moral legitimacy of every authority: by flouting them, or refusing to recognize them in its positive legislation, a society undermines its own moral legitimacy.36 If it does not respect them, authority can rely only on force or violence to obtain obedience from its subjects. It is the Church’s role to remind men of good will of these rights and to distinguish them from unwarranted or false claims.
**1931 **Respect for the human person proceeds by way of respect for the principle that "everyone should look upon his neighbor (without any exception) as ‘another self,’ above all bearing in mind his life and the means necessary for living it with dignity."37 No legislation could by itself do away with the fears, prejudices, and attitudes of pride and selfishness which obstruct the establishment of truly fraternal societies. Such behavior will cease only through the charity that finds in every man a “neighbor,” a brother.
**1932 **The duty of making oneself a neighbor to others and actively serving them becomes even more urgent when it involves the disadvantaged, in whatever area this may be. "As you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me."38
**1933 **This same duty extends to those who think or act differently from us. The teaching of Christ goes so far as to require the forgiveness of offenses. He extends the commandment of love, which is that of the New Law, to all enemies.39 Liberation in the spirit of the Gospel is incompatible with hatred of one’s enemy as a person, but not with hatred of the evil that he does as an enemy.
**II. EQUALITY AND DIFFERENCES AMONG MEN **
**1934 **Created in the image of the one God and equally endowed with rational souls, all men have the same nature and the same origin. Redeemed by the sacrifice of Christ, all are called to participate in the same divine beatitude: all therefore enjoy an equal dignity.
**1935 **The equality of men rests essentially on their dignity as persons and the rights that flow from it:
Every form of social or cultural discrimination in fundamental personal rights on the grounds of sex, race, color, social conditions, language, or religion must be curbed and eradicated as incompatible with God’s design.40 "

from:

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c2a3.htm

 

[Lujack]

Stalin is quoted as saying:

“The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of a million men is a statistic”

The problem with those foreign groups is that they ruined their own countries by overpopulation. Why should Americans be held accountable for that?

Why should an individual who had nothing to do with it be held accountable for it?

 

[Lujack]

I propose a solution to you.

For every christian that makes the claim of Catholic first, American second, should do this. Simply exchange your citizenship with a foreigner. That way you are feeding the poor of your choice and you are not hurting anyone but yourself. You are making the sacrifice that Jesus wanted. You are doing it and no one else must suffer.

Sound fair? Or are you just talk!

You do realize this isn’t even possible, right? I can’t just say to somebody “Hey, you wanna trade citizenships?” Not that I would, anyway. They’d still be poor and hungry, and you’d still probably refuse to feed them because they wave a foreign flag or something like that. Why can’t we feed them and fight for their rights while keeping our citizenship?

 

[truthsavesu]

Why should an individual who had nothing to do with it be held accountable for it?

Yes! Why are individual US citizens being held accountable for what foreigners did to themselves in their own countries?

Why should those individual US citizens be threatened with a bleak future because those foreigners have banded together and rushed the US border?

 

[Tigg]

Yoo-hoo? Social Justice is a VIRTUE, not a “thin veil.”

Speaking of catechesis, drop your needlepoint and read this:

"**SECTION ONE
MAN’S VOCATION LIFE IN THE SPIRIT **

CHAPTER TWO
THE HUMAN COMMUNION
**ARTICLE 3
SOCIAL JUSTICE **
**1928 **Society ensures social justice when it provides the conditions that allow associations or individuals to obtain what is their due, according to their nature and their vocation. Social justice is linked to the common good and the exercise of authority.
**I. RESPECT FOR THE HUMAN PERSON **
**1929 **Social justice can be obtained only in respecting the transcendent dignity of man. The person represents the ultimate end of society, which is ordered to him:
What is at stake is the dignity of the human person, whose defense and promotion have been entrusted to us by the Creator, and to whom the men and women at every moment of history are strictly and responsibly in debt.35
**1930 **Respect for the human person entails respect for the rights that flow from his dignity as a creature. These rights are prior to society and must be recognized by it. They are the basis of the moral legitimacy of every authority: by flouting them, or refusing to recognize them in its positive legislation, a society undermines its own moral legitimacy.36 If it does not respect them, authority can rely only on force or violence to obtain obedience from its subjects. It is the Church’s role to remind men of good will of these rights and to distinguish them from unwarranted or false claims.
**1931 **Respect for the human person proceeds by way of respect for the principle that "everyone should look upon his neighbor (without any exception) as ‘another self,’ above all bearing in mind his life and the means necessary for living it with dignity."37 No legislation could by itself do away with the fears, prejudices, and attitudes of pride and selfishness which obstruct the establishment of truly fraternal societies. Such behavior will cease only through the charity that finds in every man a “neighbor,” a brother.
**1932 **The duty of making oneself a neighbor to others and actively serving them becomes even more urgent when it involves the disadvantaged, in whatever area this may be. "As you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me."38
**1933 **This same duty extends to those who think or act differently from us. The teaching of Christ goes so far as to require the forgiveness of offenses. He extends the commandment of love, which is that of the New Law, to all enemies.39 Liberation in the spirit of the Gospel is incompatible with hatred of one’s enemy as a person, but not with hatred of the evil that he does as an enemy.
**II. EQUALITY AND DIFFERENCES AMONG MEN **
**1934 **Created in the image of the one God and equally endowed with rational souls, all men have the same nature and the same origin. Redeemed by the sacrifice of Christ, all are called to participate in the same divine beatitude: all therefore enjoy an equal dignity.
**1935 **The equality of men rests essentially on their dignity as persons and the rights that flow from it:
Every form of social or cultural discrimination in fundamental personal rights on the grounds of sex, race, color, social conditions, language, or religion must be curbed and eradicated as incompatible with God’s design.40 "

from:

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c2a3.htm

Please read my entire post with the intent behind it! I have studied the documents of the Church on social justice and live my life by them. I am speaking only of the injustice of liberation theology and Alinskyan style politics with its Marxist overtones. The Catholic Church has always condemned socialism.

Are you aware that some of the groups the Church is funding (see previous post linking to a complete list of grantees) advocate abortion rights for the poor? Did you know that some of them who have been given thousands of dollars are working to destroy parental rights within this country for the purpose of indoctrination of children to the homosexual agenda? Did you know some of them are opposed to home schooling? Did you know that some of them actively work for the abolition of personal property rights? I suggest you read Rerum Novarem to see what the Church truly teaches regarding this.

There is no argument that the sanctity of human life must be preseved.

 

[truthsavesu]

You do realize this isn’t even possible, right? I can’t just say to somebody “Hey, you wanna trade citizenships?” Not that I would, anyway. They’d still be poor and hungry, and you’d still probably refuse to feed them because they wave a foreign flag or something like that. Why can’t we feed them and fight for their rights while keeping our citizenship?

Because they are not entitled to those rights. If they want those rights, they should fight their own governments to get them.

That huge group of people should not have been born in the first place. It is the responsibility of the parent to feed the child. It is that way in nature. Parent takes care of child.

Huge families are no longer needed like in the days of large farms and ranches. There simply is no excuse for these large populations to exist.

 

[catharina]

Please read my entire post with the intent behind it! I have studied the documents of the Church on social justice and live my life by them. I am speaking only of the injustice of liberation theology and Alinskyan style politics with its Marxist overtones. The Catholic Church has always condemned socialism.

Are you aware that some of the groups the Church is funding (see previous post linking to a complete list of grantees) advocate abortion rights for the poor? Did you know that some of them who have been given thousands of dollars are working to destroy parental rights within this country for the purpose of indoctrination of children to the homosexual agenda? Did you know some of them are opposed to home schooling? Did you know that some of them actively work for the abolition of personal property rights? I suggest you read Rerum Novarem to see what the Church truly teaches regarding this.

There is no argument that the sanctity of human life must be preseved.

Yoo-hoo again. I first read Rerum Novarum in the sixth grade (1950s).

Throwing the term “liberation theology” into this thread is goofy.
This thread addresses CATHOLIC apologetics.
Perhaps you can rant elsewhere?
Catholics here KNOW the Church’s stance on liberation theology.
Why would you imagine otherwise???

PS - In the interest of any PC sensibilities you might harbor, I’ll re-state this:

Throwing the term “liberation theology” into this thread is goofy.

CHANGE TO:

It seems to me that your focus on l.t. in this thread is useless.

 

[Lujack]

Because they are not entitled to those rights. If they want those rights, they should fight their own governments to get them.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL MEN are created equal…”

The DoI specifically says that it is being human, not being American, that entitles one to the inalienable rights (life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

I’m aware that the Declaration is not the Constitution, but I am in agreement with Abraham Lincoln that the Constitution is subordinate to the principle embodied in the Declaration.

That huge group of people should not have been born in the first place. It is the responsibility of the parent to feed the child. It is that way in nature. Parent takes care of child.

And if the parent dies?

Huge families are no longer needed like in the days of large farms and ranches. There simply is no excuse for these large populations to exist.

So what is your solution? Kill them all? That seems rather heartless, doesn’t it?

 

[Lujack]

Yes! Why are individual US citizens being held accountable for what foreigners did to themselves in their own countries?

Why should those individual US citizens be threatened with a bleak future because those foreigners have banded together and rushed the US border?

You don’t get it. The individual Mexican born in the last forty years is not responsible for anything that happened before his birth.

 

[Michael_David]

**

Are you aware that some of the groups the Church is funding (see previous post linking to a complete list of grantees) advocate abortion rights for the poor? Did you know that some of them who have been given thousands of dollars are working to destroy parental rights within this country for the purpose of indoctrination of children to the homosexual agenda? Did you know some of them are opposed to home schooling? Did you know that some of them actively work for the abolition of personal property rights?

There is no argument that the sanctity of human life must be preseved.**

Are you saying the Church is ‘subversive’ to the American way of life? Even though the Pope admires our freedom and would like it elsewhere. All this through the Social Justice cause?

Hummmmm…

 

[Tigg]

Are you saying the Church is ‘subversive’ to the American way of life? Even though the Pope admires our freedom and would like it elsewhere. All this through the Social Justice cause?

Hummmmm…

I am saying that the Church has funded groups that are contrary to Catholic moral teaching. I suggest you take a look at the links to other threads (as posted on this one several pages ago) where this has been thoroughly discussed.

 

[truthsavesu]

And if the parent dies?

Children are having children, do you agree? In the 50s, the rate of unwed mothers was 5%. Today it is almost 40%. Does that show you something?

Population increase percentages for the years between 1950 and 2005.

United States 90%
Canada 135%
Puerto Rico 78%
Europe 33%

compared to

Brazil 246%
Mexico 276%
Columbia 258%
Venezuela 425%
Ecuador 286%
Guatemala 304%
Dominican
Republic 290%
Bolivia 238%
Honduras 360%
El Salvador 242%
Paraguay 301%
Nicaragua 322%
Costa Rica 348%
Panama 276%

Who forced these people to overpopulation? Poverty is largely a matter of unequal distribution of resources. The is only so much in the world to go around.

So what is your solution? Kill them all? That seems rather heartless, doesn’t it?

I didn’t create the problem and neither did the American poor. Why must they suffer for the sins of others?

 

[kage_ar]

Children are having children, do you agree? In the 50s, the rate of unwed mothers was 5%. Today it is almost 40%. Does that show you something?

Population increase percentages for the years between 1950 and 2005.

United States 90%
Canada 135%
Puerto Rico 78%
Europe 33%

compared to

Brazil 246%
Mexico 276%
Columbia 258%
Venezuela 425%
Ecuador 286%
Guatemala 304%
Dominican
Republic 290%
Bolivia 238%
Honduras 360%
El Salvador 242%
Paraguay 301%
Nicaragua 322%
Costa Rica 348%
Panama 276%

Who forced these people to overpopulation? Poverty is largely a matter of unequal distribution of resources. The is only so much in the world to go around.

I didn’t create the problem and neither did the American poor. Why must they suffer for the sins of others?

Seems to show that the people in the traditionally Catholic countries act like Catholics. They are not afraid of children, are not contracepting themselves out of existance.

 

[truthsavesu]

Seems to show that the people in the traditionally Catholic countries act like Catholics. They are not afraid of children, are not contracepting themselves out of existance.

But those children will be demanding a share of the United States. There’s a lot to be said for abstinence. But I guess they don’t follow all the teachings of the Catholic Church.

 

[Michael_David]

Who forced these people to overpopulation? Poverty is largely a matter of unequal distribution of resources. The is only so much in the world to go around.

I didn’t create the problem and neither did the American poor. Why must they suffer for the sins of others?

So resources are viewed on the World Scale (by the Universal Catholic Church), and therefore should be shared Worldwide. This will bring everyone (globally) to the same ‘equal distribution of resources’ no matter where one is in the world… if we follow this to it’s end. As it is now, America has more resources and less population making us ‘wealthy’ in others eye’s, so they flock here.

And if we take this farther, everyone having an equal piece of the rock, who would the Church then help? Or would their work be finished? Who would us Catholics help if there were no poor left to aid since we all have the same resources, no more or less then the other people?

This sounds like some other forms of government that have been tried through history…

 

[Karen1960]

Population increase percentages for the years between 1950 and 2005.

United States 90%
Canada 135%
Puerto Rico 78%
Europe 33%

compared to

Brazil 246%
Mexico 276%
Columbia 258%
Venezuela 425%
Ecuador 286%
Guatemala 304%
Dominican
Republic 290%
Bolivia 238%
Honduras 360%
El Salvador 242%
Paraguay 301%
Nicaragua 322%
Costa Rica 348%
Panama 276%

Who forced these people to overpopulation? Poverty is largely a matter of unequal distribution of resources. The is only so much in the world to go around.

I didn’t create the problem and neither did the American poor. Why must they suffer for the sins of others?

Are you promoting birth control now? or perhaps abortions for the poor
or maybe you believe that poor couples should be denied the marital act.

 

[grampben]

But those children will be demanding a share of the United States. There’s a lot to be said for abstinence. But I guess they don’t follow all the teachings of the Catholic Church.

And following your extremist selective views on scripture, it seems you don’t either.

 

[truthsavesu]

So resources are viewed on the World Scale (by the Universal Catholic Church), and therefore should be shared Worldwide. This will bring everyone (globally) to the same ‘equal distribution of resources’ no matter where one is in the world… if we follow this to it’s end. As it is now, America has more resources and less population making us ‘wealthy’ in others eye’s, so they flock here.

And if we take this farther, everyone having an equal piece of the rock, who would the Church then help? Or would their work be finished? Who would us Catholics help if there were no poor left to aid since we all have the same resources, no more or less then the other people?

This sounds like some other forms of government that have been tried through history…

So are you saying that you prefer the populations of Latin America forcing their way into the US as a better way to distribute the wealth of the US? Also would you say that the people of these Latin American countries producing more children that most of the world is a good excuse for forcing their way into the US?

It should be noted that for years people have had children just to get more welfare money from the state. That’s not exactly a christian act now is it.

It should also be noted that if we distributed the money fairly, countries in Latin America would not be first in line to receive money because they are no where near as poor as countries in Africa and elsewhere.

Check it out:

hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

I propose a solution to you.

For every christian that makes the claim of Catholic first, American second, should do this. Simply exchange your citizenship with a foreigner. That way you are feeding the poor of your choice and you are not hurting anyone but yourself. You are making the sacrifice that Jesus wanted. You are doing it and no one else must suffer.

Sound fair? Or are you just talk!

God, country, family. In that order.