Is it Right to Pledge Allegiance to the USA?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Kevin42
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Kevin42

Guest
Lately I have been questioning whether it is right for me to be saying the pledge of allegiance in school. Please don’t take it that I don’t appreciate some of the ideals America is based on. However, today I was really reconsidering whether or not it is right for me to pledge allegiance to a country that has legalized abortion, and is pushing for embryonic stem-cell research. I would greatly appreciate anyone’s thoughts on this-whatever they may be:) .
 
There is no other country on this earth I would pledge allegiance to other than the USA. We may not like some of the things that are going on in our country, but nowhere else is there the freedom we enjoy. Legalized abortion and stem cell research may be 2 things you don’t agree with, but you love this country and pledge allegiance to it until someone comes up with a Pledge Of Allegiance A La Mode.
Kathy
 
DaveBj said:
Yes. Read Romans 13.

DaveBj
Click to expand...
Interesting passage.

I am confused about it at the same time though. In the Roman empire, was it not illegal to practice Christianity. Yet many saints disobeyed the law and continued to practice.

In my opinion, abortion is a democide, that the judges have ruled is ok. I just struggle with the idea that it is ok to pledge allegiance while the country says this is legal:( . Trust me, I want to say the pledge, but I am not sure if my conscience is properly formed or not.
 
“Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”
 
mystified said:
“Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”
Click to expand...
I am not sure if I fully understand what Jesus meant when he said this. God created everything, so ultimately wouldn’t everything belong to God? :confused:
 
Kevin42 said:
Lately I have been questioning whether it is right for me to be saying the pledge of allegiance in school. Please don’t take it that I don’t appreciate some of the ideals America is based on. However, today I was really reconsidering whether or not it is right for me to pledge allegiance to a country that has legalized abortion, and is pushing for embryonic stem-cell research. I would greatly appreciate anyone’s thoughts on this-whatever they may be:) .
Click to expand...
This is an excellent question, and Kevin deserves credit for having the courage to ask it.👍 Since Kevin is only in high school, I think of the words of Our Lord in *Mt *21:16:

***“Out of the mouths of infants and nurslings you have brought forth praise.” ***

In addition to the legalized murder of the unborn by abortion, both surgical and chemical, Kevin could have noted the fact that the United States violated the Catholic norms for a just war by invading and occupying Iraq. He could also have mentioned the mass murders that the U.S. military committed by dropping nuclear weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and by dropping conventional bombs on other Japanese, and also German, cities during World War II. Moreover, he could have remarked that the open persecution of Catholics in our country has already begun, with Catholic pharmacists being forced, with government approval, to dispense abortifacients or lose their jobs.

I believe that the answer to Kevin’s question is that *no *Catholic can ever take an oath of allegiance to the government of the United States, or to ***any ***government, without a tacit condition: “I pledge allegiance to the authorities of my country only to the extent to which they do not violate the law of God.”

I urge Kevin and other Catholics on this thread to check out the following section of the Catechism of the Catholic Church for the rationale for this tacit reservation: 2242. And we should all start pondering the meaning and implications of section 2243.

On a positive note, we should all rejoice over the fact that the American bishops have just renewed the consecration of the United States to the Mother of God under the title of her Immaculate Conception.

Keep and spread the Faith.
 
Katie1723 said:
How is it I made you mad?
Click to expand...
The part of your post that I quoted. Here it is again:
We may not like some of the things that are going on in our country, but nowhere else is there the freedom we enjoy.
Click to expand...
I don’t want to hijack the thread, suffice to say that many, many places in the world enjoy an equal amount of freedom as the Americans.
 
Katie1723 said:
There is no other country on this earth I would pledge allegiance to other than the USA. We may not like some of the things that are going on in our country, but nowhere else is there the freedom we enjoy. Legalized abortion and stem cell research may be 2 things you don’t agree with, but you love this country and pledge allegiance to it until someone comes up with a Pledge Of Allegiance A La Mode.

Kathy
Click to expand...
Abortion is not something that we, as Catholics, “may not like.”

Less-than-optimal weather is something one may not like. But abortion is in an utterly different category. It is murder. Murder. This is what the Vicar of Christ has taught us (Pope John Paul II in section 58 of the 1995 encyclical Evangelium vitae).

Do we believe in this teaching or not? :confused:

Keep and spread the Faith.
 
Yes Kevin, it is all right to say the Pledge of Allegiance to the USA. When you say the pledge you are not agreeing to the things that may be wrong in America. You are saying that you hold allegiance to the principals that founded these United States. Among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. You are saying that you uphold the form of government that our forefathers established and agree to the Constitution of the United States.

If you disagree with some of the laws that are against God or country, then you have an obligation as a citizen to effect change that will correct or abolish those laws. The Constitution gives us this right and we should all exercise it. One way to do this is by voting which so many in this country have failed to do.
 
Steve_O_Brien said:
Abortion is not something that we, as Catholics, “may not like.”
…Keep and spread the Faith.
Click to expand...
I don’t believe in abortion. But when I wake up in the morning, I am happy to know that with all it’s faults and foibles, it’;s the good old USA that I am waking up in.
Kathy
 
Katie1723 said:
There is no other country on this earth I would pledge allegiance to other than the USA. We may not like some of the things that are going on in our country, but nowhere else is there the freedom we enjoy. Legalized abortion and stem cell research may be 2 things you don’t agree with, but you love this country and pledge allegiance to it until someone comes up with a Pledge Of Allegiance A La Mode.
Code: 
                 Kathy
Click to expand...
Well I’m British and I think there is no other country on earth like the UK and there is just as much, if not, more freedom there.
 
Atreyu said:
The part of your post that I quoted. Here it is again:
I don’t want to hijack the thread, suffice to say that many, many places in the world enjoy an equal amount of freedom as the Americans.
Click to expand...
With respect, tell us where these countries are.
 
Katie1723 said:
I don’t believe in abortion. But when I wake up in the morning, I am happy to know that with all its faults and foibles, it’s the good old USA that I am waking up in.
Kathy
Click to expand...
’

Should a Catholic say, “I don’t believe in abortion”? Would a Catholic say, “I don’t believe in child molestation”? :confused:

The legalized murder of unborn children is not a “fault.” Still less is it a “foible.” Since the Catholic Church teaches that abortion is “an abominable crime” (*CCC *2271), to permit abortion to become part of the social fabric under the color of law is also an abominable crime.

I love my country, but, right now, I’d rather wake up in Nicaragua, where Catholics have just managed to pass legislation protecting the lives of all unborn children by making all abortions crimes. Let’s emulate the outstanding example of Nicaraguan Catholics:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6161396.stm

Please note that this news report shows that the way to fight abortion is to spread the one true Faith.

I say the following with great respect for everyone on this thread: let’s not scandalize or confuse the high school student who had the courage to pose the excellent question that started this thread. Let’s help him understand why every American Catholic must say the Pledge of Allegiance with this tacit reservation: “I pledge allegiance to the government of the United States only to the extent to which it does not violate the law of God.”

Again, please allow me to take the liberty of referring everyone to CCC 2242-2243. And please ponder this Scripture verse:

"We must obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29).

Keep and spread the Faith.
 
It is ok ro pledge allegiance to your nation provided that you put God above it. Any oath of allegiance should include a statement placing God above the nation, such as “One nation under God”.
 
Kevin42 said:
Lately I have been questioning whether it is right for me to be saying the pledge of allegiance in school. Please don’t take it that I don’t appreciate some of the ideals America is based on. However, today I was really reconsidering whether or not it is right for me to pledge allegiance to a country that has legalized abortion, and is pushing for embryonic stem-cell research. I would greatly appreciate anyone’s thoughts on this-whatever they may be:) .
Click to expand...
If you are an American and believe in God, then it is right. If you feel the country is letting you down that much, then maybe you should consider moving to another country. I don’t mean to sound harsh, but thats the way I see it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top