Is it Right to Pledge Allegiance to the USA?

[Karin]

In my entire life, I have never seen anyone pledge allegiance to the flag in that manner. Always, it is with your right hand over your heart. When and where was the photograph taken?

if you click on the link for the picture you can see when and where it was taken…please also note that this salute was BEFORE it was changed to the current hand over the heart

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute
The Bellamy salute is the hand gesture described by Francis Bellamy to accompany his Pledge of Allegiance to the flag of the United States. During the period when it was used with the Pledge of Allegiance, it was sometimes known as the “flag salute.” It was first demonstrated on October 12, 1892 according to Bellamy’s published instructions for the “National School Celebration of Columbus Day”:
At a signal from the Principal the pupils, in ordered ranks, hands to the side, face the Flag. Another signal is given; every pupil gives the flag the military salute – right hand lifted, palm downward, to a line with the forehead and close to it. Standing thus, all repeat together, slowly, “I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands; one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.” At the words, “to my Flag,” the right hand is extended gracefully, palm upward, toward the Flag, and remains in this gesture till the end of the affirmation; whereupon all hands immediately drop to the side.

—quoted from The Youth’s Companion, 65 (1892): 446–447.​

The initial military salute was soon replaced with a hand-on-heart gesture, followed by the extension of the arm as described by Bellamy. Because of the similarity of this part of the salute to the Hitler salute, the Bellamy salute was replaced in 1942 with the modern gesture of placing the hand over the heart without raising the arm.
From 1939 until the attack on Pearl Harbor, this salute worked against the reputations of Americans who argued against intervention in World War II, such as aviation pioneer Charles Lindbergh. Opponents of Lindbergh’s views would include pictures of Lindbergh using the Bellamy salute in pamphlets attempting to tie him to alleged Nazi intrigue[1]. In his Pulitzer prize winning biography Lindbergh, author A. Scott Berg explains that interventionist propagandists would photograph Lindbergh and other isolationists using this salute from an angle that left out the American flag, so it would be indistinguishable from the Hitler salute to ignorant observers.

 

[mary_bobo]

In my entire life, I have never seen anyone pledge allegiance to the flag in that manner. Always, it is with your right hand over your heart. When and where was the photograph taken?

Neither have I and I am older than you are.

 

[rr1213]

I think that the obvious problem we have with this form of salutation is its resemblence to the salute used by the fascists, particular Nazi Germany and Mussolini’s Italy. From the text, however, it is clear that the salute was used many years prior to the institution of either of those facist governments.

 

[Atreyu]

Yes. I made no claim otherwise.

But I brough out Austrailia’s POW camps in response to Atreyu’s erroneous claim about Australia.

There isn’t a major nation on the planet that has not held enemy combatants, and most do it without ever filing criminal charges. In fact, for POW’s filing charges is mostly prohibited.

Point conceded, Brendan. When I wrote that, I was thinking about David Hicks - an Australian locked up for years at Guantanamo without charge. Who is to say that he was an enemy combatant? That was what I was trying to get at.

By the way I’ve thought of a so-called “freedom” that Australians can enjoy that Americans can’t. Any Australian that is legally old enough to die for his country is legally old enough to have an alcoholic drink.

 

[JJ_Grier]

Lately I have been questioning whether it is right for me to be saying the pledge of allegiance in school. Please don’t take it that I don’t appreciate some of the ideals America is based on. However, today I was really reconsidering whether or not it is right for me to pledge allegiance to a country that has legalized abortion, and is pushing for embryonic stem-cell research. I would greatly appreciate anyone’s thoughts on this-whatever they may be .

Yes this country has its faults, however, it is due to the people who are running the country, not the country it self.

Remember, there are four important words in the Pledge, “One Nation Under God”. You are pledging aligence not only to this country but to God. This great nation was founded for Freedom of Religion. I hope and pray that you and other young people realize how very blessed you are to be living in this wonderful country. JJ

 

[bankerdavid]

This is an excellent question, and Kevin deserves credit for having the courage to ask it. Since Kevin is only in high school, I think of the words of Our Lord in *Mt *21:16:

***“Out of the mouths of infants and nurslings you have brought forth praise.” ***

In addition to the legalized murder of the unborn by abortion, both surgical and chemical, Kevin could have noted the fact that the United States violated the Catholic norms for a just war by invading and occupying Iraq. He could also have mentioned the mass murders that the U.S. military committed by dropping nuclear weapons on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and by dropping conventional bombs on other Japanese, and also German, cities during World War II. Moreover, he could have remarked that the open persecution of Catholics in our country has already begun, with Catholic pharmacists being forced, with government approval, to dispense abortifacients or lose their jobs.

I believe that the answer to Kevin’s question is that no Catholic can ever take an oath of allegiance to the government of the United States, or to ***any ***government, without a tacit condition: "I pledge allegiance to the authorities of my country only to the extent to which they do not violate the law of God."
I urge Kevin and other Catholics on this thread to check out the following section of the Catechism of the Catholic Church for the rationale for this tacit reservation: 2242. And we should all start pondering the meaning and implications of section 2243.

On a positive note, we should all rejoice over the fact that the American bishops have just renewed the consecration of the United States to the Mother of God under the title of her Immaculate Conception.

Keep and spread the Faith.

without a tacit condition: “I pledge allegiance to the authorities of my country only to the extent to which they do not violate the law of God.”

This is what it means to rendeer unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s. There’s no such thing as a perfect government, and it means to leave the things of the world with the world, which became imperfect once Satan persuaded Eve to eat the wrong fruit. The rest of Steve’s post is pure opinion, yes, including the one about pharmacists and abortifacients, which I agree with him on principle (abortifacients are wrong!), but to lump it in with other purely practical decisions which helped change the world in a positive way… :nope:

 

[Dtmccameron]

’

…thread. Let’s help him understand why every American Catholic must say the Pledge of Allegiance with this tacit reservation: “I pledge allegiance to the government of the United States only to the extent to which it does not violate the law of God.”

Again, please allow me to take the liberty of referring everyone to CCC 2242-2243. And please ponder this Scripture verse:

***“We must obey God rather than men” (*Acts 5:29).

Keep and spread the Faith.

We should have reservations about every wordly institution, and further, be what Henry VIII hated most, Catholics first, countrymen second.

Further, liberty is, and please forgive me if I misquote, as said by John Paul II, “the freedom to do what’s right”. We are quickly loosing our freedom in America. In a certain sense, anyway.

Anyone was free, for instance, to hide Jews in Nazi Germany. He would face the consequences of doing so, but there was no real, physical barrier preventing him from doing so. Until he was captured, imprisoned, and executed, that is.

Nicaragua, eh? Interesting…Still, we should be more interested, as Children of Christ, in making this land the Promised Land than going off into the world looking for it.

 

[First_of_9]

Yes Kevin, it is all right to say the Pledge of Allegiance to the USA. When you say the pledge you are not agreeing to the things that may be wrong in America. You are saying that you hold allegiance to the principals that founded these United States. Among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. You are saying that you uphold the form of government that our forefathers established and agree to the Constitution of the United States.

If you disagree with some of the laws that are against God or country, then you have an obligation as a citizen to effect change that will correct or abolish those laws. The Constitution gives us this right and we should all exercise it. One way to do this is by voting which so many in this country have failed to do.

Excellent answer!

 

[bankerdavid]

I have the freedom to say “what’s up, my n******?” to a black person without being slapped for it.

Wow! Now THAT’s freedom. Actually that’s license. There’s a huge difference.

 

[cerad]

Well at least the freedom to resurrect old threads seems to be universal.