Is it Right to Pledge Allegiance to the USA?

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Atreyu said:
Aha! The greatest game on Earth! You should see the Poms watching it for the first time. They’ll watch a whole game trying to figure out the off-side rule (there is no off-side rule…) 😛

As for soccer, how did you Yanks go at the last World Cup eh? It took the eventual winners to knock the Aussies out. And only with a last-minute penalty! :crying:
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You lost me, what are Poms?

As for the WC, yes it was a disappointment. The US played in a tough group, losing the first game pretty badly to the Czechs and a close game to Ghana. Somebody, however, did draw the eventual WC winners. Now, who could that have been? 😉
 
rr1213 said:
You lost me, what are Poms?

As for the WC, yes it was a disappointment. The US played in a tough group, losing the first game pretty badly to the Czechs and a close game to Ghana. Somebody, however, did draw the eventual WC winners. Now, who could that have been? 😉
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The Poms are the English. Actually, the Poms are the Australians, apparently. I’ve heard that it’s derived from an acronym, “prisoner of (her/his) majesty”. And so calling the English “Poms” is supposed to be ironic or something. Like they sent all their prisoners to Australia, but the ones that stayed home are the real prisoners because they have to live over there.

Don’t forget that Australia also had a tough group, with Brazil and Croatia, and the Asian champions Japan! Ahh, good times.

Forgive me for asking something that’s actually on-topic, but do you have to say the Pledge of Allegiance? I mean, are there rules or laws or something that mean you’re supposed to say it?
 
Atreyu said:
Forgive me for asking something that’s actually on-topic, but do you have to say the Pledge of Allegiance? I mean, are there rules or laws or something that mean you’re supposed to say it?
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The pledge is generally said by students in schools or, sometimes, by the public prior to the beginning of a public event such as a city council meeting. It is absolutely voluntary. The Supreme Court ruled many years ago (can’t remember exactly, but it might have been as far back as the '40s) that students could not be forced to say the pledge. They have to be respectful, of course, they can’t disrupt the proceedings, but they cannot be forced against their concience to make the pledge. Same goes for anyone else.
 
rr1213 said:
The pledge is generally said by students in schools or, sometimes, by the public prior to the beginning of a public event such as a city council meeting. It is absolutely voluntary. The Supreme Court ruled many years ago (can’t remember exactly, but it might have been as far back as the '40s) that students could not be forced to say the pledge. They have to be respectful, of course, they can’t disrupt the proceedings, but they cannot be forced against their concience to make the pledge. Same goes for anyone else.
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Cool. We don’t have anything that even resembles this in Australia!
 
Atreyu said:
Aha! The greatest game on Earth! You should see the Poms watching it for the first time. They’ll watch a whole game trying to figure out the off-side rule (there is no off-side rule…) 😛
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I never could get past the referees wearng white raincoats. The vice squad would pick up an American dressed that way in about 30 seconds…
 
Do you live here?
Are you a U.S. citizen?
Do you enjoy the blood-cost freedoms paid by your predecessors…(some as simple as typing an opinion here)?

Answer yes to the above and your question is answered.

Answer no, catch the next flight outta here and don’t let the door hit you in the a…
 
thistle said:
I’m still intrigued by this “guarantee” of freedom of speech which Americans claim is necessary for freedom.
Therefore will the Americans in the thread please tell me this.

Can you speak/write publicly without fear of investigation or prosecution and
  • make racist remarks - unfortunately yes just read the papers it is morally wrong but still legal
  • incite people to violence - yes if you are not responsible for the violence itself - just read some of the blogs - and what is said by some extrema religions about killing others in the name of their god
  • tell lies about people which could destroy their lives - yes again - just read and see the blogs and tabloids
  • say you hate the president and intend to kill him - we even allow movies to show how to do it. Canadian made yes but still a “how to” movie
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The thing that most propel that scream freedom of speech tend to forget is that “their” freedom of speech is also the freedom of “others” to speak their minds.
 
Jay2 said:
Do you live here?
Are you a U.S. citizen?
Do you enjoy the blood-cost freedoms paid by your predecessors…(some as simple as typing an opinion here)?

Answer yes to the above and your question is answered.

Answer no, catch the next flight outta here and don’t let the door hit you in the a…
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I can’t understand this attitude.
 
The pledge of allegiance was written in order to indoctrinate young children into swearing loyalty to a central government, after the war of southern independence had ended a decade or two before (The pledge was written i believe around the 1870’s though i am unsure of it’s exact date) So with all the controversy surrounding the pledge on it’s mention of God, I think the God part is the only good part of the whole pledge. The rest of it is nothing more than a way of making people slaves to the state. The pledge may not use the term government in it, but by reading it’s intentions it clearly states that people should swear loyalty not to their fellow people but to the government instead.
 
Atreyu said:
OR those people who arrogantly claim that the USA is the most “free” country on Earth (whatever they mean by "free) is a claim made from ignorance.
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I’m not one of those who have fallen for the myth that America’s the free-est of the free. I just think there’s a different mentality here because we have been so very fortunate. England and the European continent were nearly flattened into dust by two world wars. Wars that began, frankly, through free speech (hate speech really) and free elections. (Hitler)
For that reason, it seems very clear why there would be limits on hate speech, racism, holocaust denial and the whole thing.

Over here we say we have free speech but it’s a very controlled and choreographed free speech. For instance, if there were to be protestors at the last republican convention, they had to be many, many blocks from where the could be heard by their “target audience.” Many were rounded up by the busloads and brought to temoprary holding pens. (who set them up so fast? new terror laws?) They’ve also done away with any fairness doctrine on radio or TV, so if a phone in opinion is not liked, the host hangs up, or if a speaker in person disagrees, they cut the microphone.

What a culture shock for me to arrive in Heathrow in Oct 2001, to see a largescreen TV with somebody (David Frost?) just grilling a politician, and the squirming politician had to answer him. No slick talk, and no commercials to let him escape. I loved it. Then to take a look at the headlines in the papers: they dared to criticize Israel (won’t happen over here) and they had a photo of a huge US gunship plane (puff the magic dragon) and the caption “US Rains Death Down upon Afgahnistan.” (actually, since it was oct 2001, I’ll bet most of us would have liked that headline, but we never would have seen that photo!)

I also think the US has acquired a very conformist type of attitude. You have to be similar to fit in. Ireland, UK and a couple others I’ve visted have a much more “live and let live” attitude. That’s a sort of freedom that’s not written down anywhere, but people just live it.
 
jack_mason said:
The pledge of allegiance was written in order to indoctrinate young children into swearing loyalty to a central government, after the war of southern independence had ended a decade or two before (The pledge was written i believe around the 1870’s though i am unsure of it’s exact date) So with all the controversy surrounding the pledge on it’s mention of God, I think the God part is the only good part of the whole pledge. The rest of it is nothing more than a way of making people slaves to the state. The pledge may not use the term government in it, but by reading it’s intentions it clearly states that people should swear loyalty not to their fellow people but to the government instead.
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With all due respect to a newbie, that is the most twisted explanation I have ever heard. You may feel like you are a slave of the state (whatever that means) but I certainly don’t. And. please, tell me where I can find these written intentions to which you refer.
 
Atreyu said:
I. We don’t lock up foreign nationals for years without charge.
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Really? Austrailian had 14 camps during WW-II were Japanese national were confined without charge.

Of course, those were enemy combatants captured in uniform, which, per the Geneva Convention, entitled them to P.O.W. status

But still, the Crown filed no criminal charges against these people, but still locked them up for years none the less.

Or is it your claim that captured enemy combatants should also be charged with crimes as well.
 
Brendan said:
Really? Austrailian had 14 camps during WW-II were Japanese national were confined without charge.
.
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did not the AMericans do the same thing to the Japanese Americans that lived here in the States…sent them to “camps”…and all becuase they where Japanese?
 
Karin said:
did not the AMericans do the same thing to the Japanese Americans that lived here in the States…sent them to “camps”…and all becuase they where Japanese?
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Yes. I made no claim otherwise.

But I brough out Austrailia’s POW camps in response to Atreyu’s erroneous claim about Australia.

There isn’t a major nation on the planet that has not held enemy combatants, and most do it without ever filing criminal charges. In fact, for POW’s filing charges is mostly prohibited.
 
Brendan said:
Yes. I made no claim otherwise.

But I brough out Austrailia’s POW camps in response to Atreyu’s erroneous claim about Australia.

There isn’t a major nation on the planet that has not held enemy combatants, and most do it without ever filing criminal charges. In fact, for POW’s filing charges is mostly prohibited.
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him so the guys and gals held in numerous jails becuase of 9/11 are now POW’s?
 
mary_bobo said:
With all due respect to a newbie, that is the most twisted explanation I have ever heard. You may feel like you are a slave of the state (whatever that means) but I certainly don’t. And. please, tell me where I can find these written intentions to which you refer.
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The pledge was written by a well known centralist and socialist, Francis Bellamy. Any doubt as to the pledge’s original intentions can be seen in this photo of the original salute before it’s change (I have included the photo below also for those whom the link does not work)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/1892_Pledge_of_Allegiance2.jpg

More info on the pledge’s history can be seen here 1, 2, 3, 4
 
In my entire life, I have never seen anyone pledge allegiance to the flag in that manner. Always, it is with your right hand over your heart. When and where was the photograph taken?
 
jack_mason said:
The pledge was written by a well known centralist and socialist, Francis Bellamy. Any doubt as to the pledge’s original intentions can be seen in this photo of the original salute before it’s change (I have included the photo below also for those whom the link does not work)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/1892_Pledge_of_Allegiance2.jpg

More info on the pledge’s history can be seen here 1, 2, 3, 4
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Lots of good points in here. When I was a teacher, I was amazed (and took action on) the number of kids who would not participate in the morning prayer (Catholic school) but they practically snapped to attention for “the Pledge”.

I once asked a couple of them, “So, you’re not going start the day by praising the all-powerful creator of the universe, but you will start your day pledging to a flag?” They had never thought about it, before. . It’s pure indoctrination.
 
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