Is it Right to Pledge Allegiance to the USA?

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OR those people who arrogantly claim that the USA is the most “free” country on Earth (whatever they mean by "free) is a claim made from ignorance.
It is an OPINION. I don’t think we gain much by insulting other countries. I have made it a point not to do so. Having moved around a lot, I have found that there are nice people and good things about a lot of places. And then there are places I was overjoyed to leave. When you start throwing arrows, you are going to get people’s hackles up.
 
It is an OPINION. I don’t think we gain much by insulting other countries. I have made it a point not to do so. Having moved around a lot, I have found that there are nice people and good things about a lot of places. And then there are places I was overjoyed to leave. When you start throwing arrows, you are going to get people’s hackles up.
When did I insult a country? I have done nothing of the sort. In point of fact, I love the USA. I’ve spent 14 months of my life there, and loved every bit of it.

What I object to is when some Americans claim that America is better than everywhere else. There is a difference in what rr1213 said here:
As to minority rights, frankly few countries protect the rights of minorities better than the US. Our entire Constitutional system…
which is something I can happily agree with, and what estesbob said here:
There is no doubt we have the freest country on the face of the earth-perhaps the frrest country in the History of the world. Not only are we the freest country on the face of the earth we have been the greatest force of good the world has ever known… If you dont beleive this dont move here.
“Our country’s the best country on Earth, and if you don’t agree with me, then you can get stuffed”.
 
“Our country’s the best country on Earth, and if you don’t agree with me, then you can get stuffed”.
Sorry you feel that way.

If the US was as bad as so many make it out ot be why do we have so many people trying to sneak in?
 
What freedoms do you have in Australia that we do not enjoy in the United States?
I have the freedom to say “what’s up, my n******?” to a black person without being slapped for it. We don’t lock up foreign nationals for years without charge. We don’t have government sanctioned torture.
 
I have the freedom to say “what’s up, my n******?” to a black person without being slapped for it. We don’t lock up foreign nationals for years without charge. We don’t have government sanctioned torture.
Neither do we. I take it then, that the answer to my question “none”.

How easy is it to own a gun in Australia? Can the Australian Govt stop a newspaper from printing a story they claim is a threat to nationla security? Do you have to have the Govts permission to turn your TV on?
 
Sorry you feel that way.

If the US was as bad as so many make it out ot be why do we have so many people trying to sneak in?
When did I ever say the US was bad? Do you really think that only America has an asylum-seeker problem? Do you have any idea how many people try to sneak into Australia?
 
Neither do we. I take it then, that the answer to my question “none”.

How easy is it to own a gun in Australia?
It’s as hard as it should be. I live about 50 kilometres from Port Arthur, the site of one of the worst massacres in our nation’s history. I love our gun laws! If this is oppression, then I am all for it!
Can the Australian Govt stop a newspaper from printing a story they claim is a threat to nationla security?
I don’t know. I reckon the Australian Government could ask a paper to stop printing such a story, and the paper would probably listen. Not out of fear of reprisal, but because they would see the sense of it.
Do you have to have the Govts permission to turn your TV on?
No! What ever gave you that idea?
 
I think the Pledge amounts to indoctrination. As a child I felt very uncomfortable saying it since it had the words “under God” (I was raised an atheist). The the irony of being pressured to express something I had the freedom to disagree with was not lost on me when I was younger.

This is a great country. It has the potential to be even greater. However, blind patriotism and nationalism can lead us down very ugly paths. It can lead to feelings of superiority and creates barriers between people within the world. It has been and will continue to be the cause of wars and death.

I am a Catholic first and an American second. If America stands behind the principles I hold as a Catholic that is great. If not, the system allows me to work for change-that is the greatest thing about this country. Blind, unquestioning acceptance and brainwashing seem to me to be very un-American.
 
as long as they don’t take the word God out of it I will still say it. If the small minority pushing for its removal ever gets their way then that will be going too far.
 
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bankerdavid:
In the UK, can the common man become the leader of the nation?
Yes, since the Prime Minister has the real power and leadership.

And now that you mention it, it is MUCH easier in Europe to become a leader even if you are a common man. Look at the poverty in the US. A great numbers of people have a little chance to succeed in their lives with the gap between poor and rich getting wider and wider. It’s also funny that if you want to get into a good university in the US you either have to be very rich, have famous family or be extremely smart. And you still have to have a considerable amount of money to educate yourself.

Now, what you see in the US is exactly what I don’t consider to be freedom. If what you call freedom is that the rich can get richer and enjoy more freedom while the poorer are getting poorer with almost no freedom at all then I’ll say - no, thank you.
In the UK, is it lawful to own a gun?
So the ability to hold guns is what defines freedom? Can you be sunbathing topless in the US on normal beaches?
In England, when did it become OK to be a Catholic?
I don’t know, I’m not English, but I can say that it is OK to be Catholic now.
Guilty until proven innocent?
Oh, how ironic. And I though the US was one of the few “western” countries to actually constantly be breaking this. And it’s not only Guantánamo Bay.
Taxation without representation? Excess taxation?
Excess of taxes? What’s that?
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estesbob:
Not only are we the freest country on the face of the earth we have been the greatest force of good the world has ever known… If you dont beleive this dont move here.
This is the funniest thing I’ve heard today. Do you really believe that?

What makes the US so ‘SAINT’?
Torture? Invading of other countries without a just cause? Holing prisoners without any trial? Use of nuclear weapons? Lies? These are just few from the top of my head.

No my friend. You are just being feeded by senseless propaganda. If you study the US you’ll find that it is full of contradiction and shifts in discourse.

US rhetoric about human freedom, liberalism etc. are nothing more then political tools to justify its actions. Of course this is all part of the “seek power” policy that is part of almost any “capitalist empire”. The US did a good job in spreading its ‘ideals’. It created institutions that would be supported by other nations and that would do all the automatically. Of course, as the US functioned on basically two logics, it created contradictions and these were always pretty much apparent.

For some time now the US was shifting away from the old ideas as the world has changed as well. There is no Cold War for example. The neo-conservatives and Christian fundamentalism came to power and they play a key role in this (or it is rather the relation between n-c and the military industrial complex). I can understand why there are so many conspiracy theories regarding 9/11 - they actually make a lot of sense from a political perspective (think of Pearl Harbor).

The last thing I will say is that the US can be viewed as the greatest “roger” state.
 
It seems Americans (well some of them in this thread) determine that a people are only free if they are allowed to have guns and are allowed to make racist remarks, slander and liable other people with impunity.
 
Look at the poverty in the US. A great numbers of people have a little chance to succeed in their lives with the gap between poor and rich getting wider and wider.

***Yes there is a gap between the rich and the poor in America, as in other places as well. (Remember somebody saying that “the poor will always be with you”?). Still, the poor in America would be considered well off in many countries in the world, including first world countries. ***

It’s also funny that if you want to get into a good university in the US you either have to be very rich, have famous family or be extremely smart. And you still have to have a considerable amount of money to educate yourself.

Absolutely not true. The US has a higher percentage of students go to college than most other countries. Where are you from? Let’s compare the number of college age young people that go to college in your country to the percentage in the US…

Now, what you see in the US is exactly what I don’t consider to be freedom. If what you call freedom is that the rich can get richer and enjoy more freedom while the poorer are getting poorer with almost no freedom at all then I’ll say - no, thank you.

***That’s why we are currently being inundated with all those “rich” Latinos coming across our borders. They know that by leaving their native lands they can become more poor in the US. :rolleyes: ***

The US did a good job in spreading its ‘ideals’.

Yeah, we did. That’s why there is more free countries in the world today than in previous years. Look at the link to Freedom House in one of my posts above. You can learn alot about comparative freedom from that site.

For some time now the US was shifting away from the old ideas as the world has changed as well. There is no Cold War for example.

Without the United States, the Cold War would have been lost and you’d be speaking Russian right now. No other country had the will, and ability, to stand up to the Soviet Union after WW2 other than the US. Yes, a number of other countries fought the good fight along with us, especially the UK and other NATO allies, but their fight would have been in vain without AMERICAN power…political, economic and military.

I can understand why there are so many conspiracy theories regarding 9/11 - they actually make a lot of sense from a political perspective (think of Pearl Harbor).

***Please don’t tell me that you are one of those people who believe that Roosevelt conspired with Churchill to allow the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor in order to bring the US into WWII…? :rolleyes: ***

The last thing I will say is that the US can be viewed as the greatest “roger” state.

Afraid you lost me there. English translation please?
 
It seems Americans (well some of them in this thread) determine that a people are only free if they are allowed to have guns and are allowed to make racist remarks, slander and liable other people with impunity.
And who decides what is slander, racist and libel? Do you reallywant the Govt to decide ???

Without a doubt the America is the greatest country on the face of the earth-nobody else is even close. I am doubly blessed-Catholic and American -it just does not get better than that.
 
And who decides what is slander, racist and libel? Do you reallywant the Govt to decide ???
Actually, the government does decide these issues even in the US…through legislation and through the case law decisions of the courts.
 
Without a doubt the America is the greatest country on the face of the earth-nobody else is even close. I am doubly blessed-Catholic and American -it just does not get better than that.
I am as patriotic as any American…still, let’s not forget that Scripture tells us that the elect of God shall come from all nations. Americans do not have a monopoly on Godliness or even on political freedom.
 
And who decides what is slander, racist and libel? Do you reallywant the Govt to decide ???

Without a doubt the America is the greatest country on the face of the earth-nobody else is even close. I am doubly blessed-Catholic and American -it just does not get better than that.
As if. Australia has much better sport than in the USA, therefore Australia is the greatest country on Earth! :cool:

I mean, you guys don’t even have cricket!
 
As if. Australia has much better sport than in the USA, therefore Australia is the greatest country on Earth! :cool:

I mean, you guys don’t even have cricket!
Cricket/Smicket. What’s important is that the Yanks can beat the Socceroos any day of the week. 😃
 
As if. Australia has much better sport than in the USA, therefore Australia is the greatest country on Earth! :cool:

I mean, you guys don’t even have cricket!
And, moreover, what’s the deal with Australian Rules Football? I mean, it looks *really, really *cool, but I have absolutely no idea what the dickens they are doing out there. It’s basically incomprehensible…
 
And, moreover, what’s the deal with Australian Rules Football? I mean, it looks *really, really *cool, but I have absolutely no idea what the dickens they are doing out there. It’s basically incomprehensible…
Aha! The greatest game on Earth! You should see the Poms watching it for the first time. They’ll watch a whole game trying to figure out the off-side rule (there is no off-side rule…) 😛

As for soccer, how did you Yanks go at the last World Cup eh? It took the eventual winners to knock the Aussies out. And only with a last-minute penalty! :crying:
 
And who decides what is slander, racist and libel? Do you reallywant the Govt to decide ???

Without a doubt the America is the greatest country on the face of the earth-nobody else is even close. I am doubly blessed-Catholic and American -it just does not get better than that.
First of all every nationality will claim their own country is the greatest in the world and it is not something anyone can prove. You can only prove that some countries are bad (at least the governments of those countries).

Second, it depends how you define “greatest”. Without a doubt America has the strongest economy and the most powerful military but when it comes to morality I think America is going down the drain.
 
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