Is it wrong for a Catholic woman to work and have a family?

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PRmerger said:
This thread is hysterical!

Reminds me of my new great big waste o’ time: reading Amazon Customer Reviews.

Best one regarding the Bic Cristal for Her: (wickedly funny!)

I love BIC Cristal for Her! The delicate shape and pretty pastel colors make it perfect for writing recipe cards, checks to my psychologist (I’m seeing him for a case of the hysterics), and tracking my monthly cycle. Obviously, I don’t use it for vulgar endeavors like math or filling out a voter application, but BIC Cristal for Her is a lovely little writing utensil all the same. Ask your husband for some extra pocket money so you can buy one today!
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And my 2nd fave:

Someone has answered my gentle prayers and FINALLY designed a pen that I can use all month long! I use it when I’m swimming, riding a horse, walking on the beach and doing yoga. It’s comfortable, leak-proof, non-slip and it makes me feel so feminine and pretty! Since I’ve begun using these pens, men have found me more attractive and approchable. It has given me soft skin and manageable hair and it has really given me the self-esteem I needed to start a book club and flirt with the bag-boy at my local market. My drawings of kittens and ponies have improved, and now that I’m writing my last name hyphenated with the Robert Pattinson’s last name, I really believe he may some day marry me! I’m positively giddy. Those smart men in marketing have come up with a pen that my lady parts can really identify with.

Where has this pen been all my life???
 
PRmerger said:
And my 2nd fave:

Someone has answered my gentle prayers and FINALLY designed a pen that I can use all month long! I use it when I’m swimming, riding a horse, walking on the beach and doing yoga. It’s comfortable, leak-proof, non-slip and it makes me feel so feminine and pretty! Since I’ve begun using these pens, men have found me more attractive and approchable. It has given me soft skin and manageable hair and it has really given me the self-esteem I needed to start a book club and flirt with the bag-boy at my local market. My drawings of kittens and ponies have improved, and now that I’m writing my last name hyphenated with the Robert Pattinson’s last name, I really believe he may some day marry me! I’m positively giddy. Those smart men in marketing have come up with a pen that my lady parts can really identify with.

Where has this pen been all my life???
Click to expand...
Have you seen this one?
amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0047E0EII/ref=mp_s_a_1?qid=1362109521&sr=8-1&pi=SL75
 
Debora123 said:
I don’t remember who it was that said this, and perhaps it wasn’t portrait… but someone did say once on here that unless a woman either gets married and has babies, or becomes a nun, she is selfish and not fulfilling her duties here on earth.
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So all of those unmarried, chaste, God-fearing women…who surprise aren’t nuns…are, clearly, not following God’s will for women. I’d love to see my MIL read this thread. She’d get a kick out of it. She is divorced and unmarried and her two children are grown adults with families of their own.
She lives in a small apartment that doesn’t need much caring for. And, of course, no husband to dote upon.
What is she to do?
Oh, that’s right. She goes to work full time.

I’m sorry…but we are getting dangerously close to the barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen scenario.

God-forbid I step outside for some fresh air.

“ARGHHH…bright light, bright light, bright light!” :rolleyes:
 
Portrait said:
Dear gmarie21,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

The portrait, dear friend, of the virtuous woman in that elegant passage describes a woman who works diligently from within the home, which is the centre of all her operations. Her husband confides to her the management of the household and is confident that all will be well whilst he is absent (v. 11), which seems to imply that she is engaged as a full-time worker at home. Whilst it is true that she does provide from all quarters maintenance for her household, it should be observed that she carefully watches over the conduct of her family and domestics (v. 27), which she could not do with such efficiency were she to be away from the home for too long a period. This pious woman is a worker at home and an ideal wife and homemaker and therefore this lovely chapter actually compliments the Pauline passage in Titus 2: 4,5. At any rate we cannot appeal to the Proverbs passage to support married women working outside of the home in the modern sense in which we understand women working outside the home.

Moreover, dear friend, in the passage in Titus, St. Paul does not say that married women could be workers at home a**nd workers outside of the home, he only enjoined them to be workers at home. Undoubtedly he understood only too well that being a wife and mother was a jolly demanding job per se and that such work could only be properly undertaken by her being at home full-time. With the aggressive disparagment of women homemakers nowadays, for example by the likes of Cherie Blair, Catholics need to loudly declare that home building and motherhood is an indispensable work of supreme importance - ‘the hand that rocks the cradle still rules the world’.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
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Well, she also considers a field and buys it, so she must be spending some time outside. Pretty sure she also looks after vineyards. 😉

Portrait, it is fine if you want to disparage modern television and other such aspects of modern life. But please, do not claim that the Bible says women cannot work outside the home. It says no such thing. Women who work- whether married, single, or widowed, ARE NOT SINNING. Many do so out of necessity. Many simply like working and being self-sufficient. That is not sinful.

I can’t believe this is even being discussed. :mad:

I mean, I probably shouldn’t even care about what people say on the internet, but… really? Are there really people out there who still think woman’s only purpose is to be a mother and wife? 😦
 
JackieMom said:
So I’ll ask again - should married, but childless, women stay home or do they have God’s permission to seek employment?

Additionally - what are God’s thoughts on part-time work? Can a mom work 10 hours a week while the children are at Grandma’s, at school or with Daddy? Can she work 5 hours per week? What is the number of hours a mother can work outside of the home without incurring God’s wrath? I am curious because, while I do not work outside my home, I do go to the gym about ten hours per week.
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The gym is non-payable. I think that qualifies as okay? Bonus points for keeping yourself looking good for hubby.
 
Kamaduck said:
I mean, I probably shouldn’t even care about what people say on the internet, but… really? Are there really people out there who still think woman’s only purpose is to be a mother and wife? 😦
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He doesn’t seem to want to go anywhere near the situation of a married woman who discovers she cannot conceive.

It kinda throws that argument off. Unless her job is “housewife” which I’d absolutely lose my mind from boredom.
 
Kelfa28 said:
He doesn’t seem to want to go anywhere near the situation of a married woman who discovers she cannot conceive.

It kinda throws that argument off. Unless her job is “housewife” which I’d absolutely lose my mind from boredom.
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No… The idea that a woman should devote her entire life to washing the clothes and cleaning the house of a grown man is really too terrifying for me to imagine. I think I would go insane. :eek:

Anyway, at least his opinion is very clearly in the minority. I won’t lose hope for humanity just yet. 😛
 
Kelfa28 said:
The gym is non-payable. I think that qualifies as okay? Bonus points for keeping yourself looking good for hubby.
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I need to keep him interested so that I can concieve the MAXIMUM number of babies possible.
 
Kelfa28 said:
Needs…hmmm. Lets go over some of these needs that families should have.

How about we use the People’s Republic of Massachusetts as a background setting.

I have a one year old.

We need a car. We have a used one we don’t make payments on. It still presents a litany of other problems.
The car MUST have insurance. It’s against the law not to. Insurance is expensive…even with pristine driving records like my husband and I.

The car MUST be inspected yearly. That gets expensive with all the emission, tire, engine and emission standards. I’ve spent more money trying to get a passing sticker for my car then I would like to post here.

The car MUST be re-registered every other year. That costs money.

Gas is RIDICULOUSLY expensive. I live in the suburbs. No bus route for us. Especially to go on base where we work.

I need a car seat that grows with the child. They are not cheap and you cannot buy them used. It’s against the law to not have one.
For each subsequent child I need a car seat.
Children are now required to be in at least a booster until a certain weight is met. That could take years.
We pay excise tax every year for the house and the cars.

In my state…health insurance is MANDATORY. It’s against the law if you don’t have it. It’s certainly very expensive…especially if you don’t qualify for Medicaid.
If you don’t have it you are nailed when tax time rolls around.

We have a house.
Taxes are expensive where I live.
We must have house insurance.
We must pay our gas, electric and water bills.

We must by food. That is expensive. I cook every single night. We almost never go out to eat. I also don’t buy baby food for her. I buy produce and meats and make all of her baby food.

We don’t watch the television. But we NEED the internet. Can you believe it’s actually more expensive to have just an internet package then a basic cable and internet package?
Thanks to our state…only one or two companies actually do business. They have a monopoly and we don’t have much of a choice to shop around.

We do cloth diaper. That has saved us money. But we need to buy formula since BFing did not work. That is expensive.

snip/
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Dear kelfa28,

Hello again and cordial greetings. Thankyou for your response.

First, may I just say that I truly sympathise with your plight and current hardships and I know from personal experience how difficult things can be owing to a shortage of cash.

However, dear sister, that many wives are compelled to work for economic reasons is a hackneyed argument continually trotted out in discussions of this kind. Whilst I freely admit that the working poor are struggling to pay essential utility bills, keep a roof over their head, pay for medical insurance (in the US) and generally keep body and soul together, the fact is that in the West we have come to expect a certain quality of life and consider ourselves impoverished if we cannot have this life. Moreover, as a consequence of the prosperity that we have enjoyed in previous years before the economic downturn, we have sadly become a people who are gready of gain. We have not been contented with such things as we have and have had an insatiable desire for material prosperity, often showing little concern for the prosperity of our souls and the earnest pursuit of holiness. Therefore, whilst I appreciate that many ordinary people, myself included, are living in straightened circumstances with wholly insufficient means to meet even the most basic of needs, yet we are not homeless and still have computers and can pay for interweb access etc. We probably also have television sets and a few other little luxuries, so we are not actually living on the margins of society and for this we must give thanks unto God. In the UK, because of the Government’s ‘tough love’ approach to welfare reform, many sick and unemployed are at risk of being made homeless because of harsh caps on housing benefit payments (I was discussing this at great length here on CAF earlier this month). St. Paul’s words spring to mind: “I have learned in whatsoever state I am therewith to be content”; “Having food and raiment let us therewith be content” and “godliness with contment is great gain”.

The more, dear sister, that godless secular feminism persuades women of the superior status and rewards of work outside of the home, the more that married women will seek it and this must have a jolly huge impact on men’s job opportunities. How sad today that in many households you have both spouses going out to work, whilst in others the poor husband cannot even find a job to support his family. Moreover, who can honestly deny that both spouses going out to work has not contributed to inflation and a want of affordable housing. After all house prices inevitably reflect joint incomes these days, which makes it exceedingly difficult and well-nigh impossible for poor one wage families to purchase a home, which means that they must pay exorbitant rents. Thus many have suffered considerably as a result of the departure from the biblical and Catholic family paradigm of married women staying at home and the husband being the breadwinner. The modern Western world is paying a heavy price, in more ways than one, because of the subversive and godless ideology of radical aberrant feminism and people today need to think about the damage this has caused to family life.

God bless, dear sister, and I will pray that your circumstances improve and that your husband will find suitable work in the not too distant future.

Warmest good wishes and prayers,

Portrait

Pax
 
Kelfa28 said:
So all of those unmarried, chaste, God-fearing women…who surprise aren’t nuns…are, clearly, not following God’s will for women. I’d love to see my MIL read this thread. She’d get a kick out of it. She is divorced and unmarried and her two children are grown adults with families of their own.
She lives in a small apartment that doesn’t need much caring for. And, of course, no husband to dote upon.
What is she to do?
Oh, that’s right. She goes to work full time.

I’m sorry…but we are getting dangerously close to the barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen scenario.

God-forbid I step outside for some fresh air.

“ARGHHH…bright light, bright light, bright light!” :rolleyes:
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Yup – I’d say – that is where it leads.
 
Portrait said:
The modern Western world is paying a heavy price, in more ways than one, because of the subversive and godless ideology of radical aberrant feminism and people today need to think about the damage this has caused to family life.
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Allowing women to work outside the home is not “because of the subversive and godless ideology of radical aberrant feminism”. It is a very old system. It is by no means a product of feminism. Poor women have had to work for centuries to feed their children. Many poor single women had to work in factories during the industrial revolution. Today, though, I get to look forward to a career that is actually interesting.

Maybe I’m odd, but when people asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, I never, not once, answered simply “a mommy!” I wanted to be an astronaut. All the boys I knew were going to be astronauts, and I wasn’t going to get left behind on earth.

We’re mostly going into engineering and sciences now, but the same principle still applies. Families are very important, they’re one of the most worthwhile things a person can put effort into, and they definitely benefit society. They are also DEFINITELY not the only thing that interests people, women included. 😉 I’ll never say women can’t be mothers and wives, or even that they can’t devote themselves to it. It’s a worthwhile goal, it’s just not everyone’s goal.
 
Kamaduck said:
Well, she also considers a field and buys it, so she must be spending some time outside. Pretty sure she also looks after vineyards. 😉

Portrait, it is fine if you want to disparage modern television and other such aspects of modern life. But please, do not claim that the Bible says women cannot work outside the home. It says no such thing. Women who work- whether married, single, or widowed, ARE NOT SINNING. Many do so out of necessity. Many simply like working and being self-sufficient. That is not sinful.

I can’t believe this is even being discussed. :mad:

I mean, I probably shouldn’t even care about what people say on the internet, but… really? Are there really people out there who still think woman’s only purpose is to be a mother and wife? 😦
Click to expand...
👍
 
Portrait said:
Dear kelfa28,
The more, dear sister, that godless secular feminism persuades women of the superior status and rewards of work outside of the home, the more that married women will seek it and this must have a jolly huge impact on men’s job opportunities. How sad today that in many households you have both spouses going out to work, whilst in others the poor husband cannot even find a job to support his family. Moreover, who can honestly deny that both spouses going out to work has not contributed to inflation and a want of affordable housing. After all house prices inevitably reflect joint incomes these days, which makes it exceedingly difficult and well-nigh impossible for poor one wage families to purchase a home, which means that they must pay exorbitant rents. Thus many have suffered considerably as a result of the departure from the biblical and Catholic family paradigm of married women staying at home and the husband being the breadwinner. The modern Western world is paying a heavy price, in more ways than one, because of the subversive and godless ideology of radical aberrant feminism and people today need to think about the damage this has caused to family life.

God bless, dear sister, and I will pray that your circumstances improve and that your husband will find suitable work in the not too distant future.

Warmest good wishes and prayers,

Portrait

Pax
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Already acknowledge this in a previous post.

I consider myself a prayer warrior…especially given the circumstances of our situation. But your solution is not attainable at present.

I could totally storm the gates of heaven with prayers. But I’m not naive enough to think that this entire system is going to change overnight…or even in my lifetime. That all mothers will, miraculously feel an inherent calling to quit their jobs overnight and open up a slot for my husband. I’m not even naive enough to think that those 80 factories that closed across the river from my house will ever open again.

We aren’t Africa, we aren’t the UK. This argument holds no water. Sure we can keep a roof over our heads…and we are financially savvy and knew how to save and prepare for the worst…but just because we live in a westernized society does not mean that I won’t be out on the streets if this persists for years to come.

This doesn’t answer the present question. Am I allowed, according to God, to even the playing field and improve the odds by putting my own applications into a job search? Is my earning a living to keep that roof, my husband and I worked so hard for, firmly over our head for the next 30 some-odd years? Or does God disapprove and am I sinning?

The answer is so very clear and easy. Absolutely not!

Thank-you for the prayers…we do need them at present.
 
Kamaduck said:
Allowing women to work outside the home is not “because of the subversive and godless ideology of radical aberrant feminism”. It is a very old system. It is by no means a product of feminism. Poor women have had to work for centuries to feed their children. Many poor single women had to work in factories during the industrial revolution. Today, though, I get to look forward to a career that is actually interesting.

Maybe I’m odd, but when people asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, I never, not once, answered simply “a mommy!” I wanted to be an astronaut. All the boys I knew were going to be astronauts, and I wasn’t going to get left behind on earth.

We’re mostly going into engineering and sciences now, but the same principle still applies. Families are very important, they’re one of the most worthwhile things a person can put effort into, and they definitely benefit society. They are also DEFINITELY not the only thing that interests people, women included. 😉 I’ll never say women can’t be mothers and wives, or even that they can’t devote themselves to it. It’s a worthwhile goal, it’s just not everyone’s goal.
Click to expand...
👍
 
Kamaduck said:
Allowing women to work outside the home is not “because of the subversive and godless ideology of radical aberrant feminism”. It is a very old system. It is by no means a product of feminism. Poor women have had to work for centuries to feed their children. Many poor single women had to work in factories during the industrial revolution. Today, though, I get to look forward to a career that is actually interesting.

Maybe I’m odd, but when people asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, I never, not once, answered simply “a mommy!” I wanted to be an astronaut. All the boys I knew were going to be astronauts, and I wasn’t going to get left behind on earth.

We’re mostly going into engineering and sciences now, but the same principle still applies. Families are very important, they’re one of the most worthwhile things a person can put effort into, and they definitely benefit society. They are also DEFINITELY not the only thing that interests people, women included. 😉 I’ll never say women can’t be mothers and wives, or even that they can’t devote themselves to it. It’s a worthwhile goal, it’s just not everyone’s goal.
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Ditto–👍
 
Kelfa28 said:
Already acknowledge this in a previous post.

I consider myself a prayer warrior…especially given the circumstances of our situation. But your solution is not attainable at present.

I could totally storm the gates of heaven with prayers. But I’m not naive enough to think that this entire system is going to change overnight…or even in my lifetime. That all mothers will, miraculously feel an inherent calling to quit their jobs overnight and open up a slot for my husband. I’m not even naive enough to think that those 80 factories that closed across the river from my house will ever open again.

We aren’t Africa, we aren’t the UK. This argument holds no water. Sure we can keep a roof over our heads…and we are financially savvy and knew how to save and prepare for the worst…but just because we live in a westernized society does not mean that I won’t be out on the streets if this persists for years to come.

This doesn’t answer the present question. Am I allowed, according to God, to even the playing field and improve the odds by putting my own applications into a job search? Is my earning a living to keep that roof, my husband and I worked so hard for, firmly over our head for the next 30 some-odd years? Or does God disapprove and am I sinning?

The answer is so very clear and easy. Absolutely not!

Thank-you for the prayers…we do need them at present.
Click to expand...
👍
 
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