Is it wrong to charge a fellow Christian with sexual assault?

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Jesusismyfriend said:
… I’ve also been told that you should forgive the person, and charging them would be a form of holding a grudge. Or not being responsable for your own actions. …
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Wow… this part struck me as being such a bizarre way of thinking.

First of all, the idea that if a person acts imprudently it gives someone else some sort of right to do something bad is completely wrong, horrifically wrong. It is what led so many victims of sexual assault to keep it to themselves. Yes, we should act prudently, but just because something bad happens does not mean that the victim acted imprudently, and there are too many very innocent victims out there to even slightly begin to assume that.

Secondly, holding a grudge means that one refuses to forgive and keeps the option to get revenge or teach the malefactor a lesson for oneself. But bringing charges against a rapist (see ETA below) is what a member of society is supposed to do. We have to cooperate with the police in the protection of others. How can the police catch bad guys if no one ever reports any crimes? In fact, turning a malefactor over to the proper authorities (the police or similar, God) is part of forgiveness, since letting go of one’s own desire to beat the guy to a pulp or whatever oneself is part of forgiveness. Just turning the problem over to others who are the ones who are supposed to do this sort of thing is the right and best thing to do.

(I understood that you didn’t say that this is what happened, but something serious did happen and when it comes to criminality, all too many people started off with less serious crimes and moved on to more serious crimes, esp if they are not stopped.)
 
Garyjohn2 said:
Woah woah woah…no one said rape. What do you people think sexual assault is? You are slandering a stranger, my friend. We should all practice some temperance here.
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This is from the National Center for Victims of Crime:

definition of sexual assault -

Sexual assault takes many forms including attacks such as rape or attempted rape, as well as any unwanted sexual contact or threats. Usually a sexual assault occurs when someone touches any part of another person’s body in a sexual way, even through clothes, without that person’s consent. Some types of sexual acts which fall under the category of sexual assault include forced sexual intercourse (rape), sodomy (oral or anal sexual acts), child molestation, incest, fondling and attempted rape. Sexual assault in any form is often a devastating crime. Assailants can be strangers, acquaintances, friends, or family members. Assailants commit sexual assault by way of violence, threats, coercion, manipulation, pressure or tricks. Whatever the circumstances, no one asks or deserves to be sexually assaulted.
 
**What do you people think sexual assault is? You are slandering a stranger, my friend. We should all practice some temperance here. **

Well, the KEY word word be ASSAULT, with “sexual” being the description of the assault.

Why do you say I am slandering a stranger??? I most certainly am not.
First of all, no names were named, so I am not slandering ANYBODY even if
it turns out there WAS NO assault. We are talking about a nameless, faceless individual who has apparently assaulted other, at least one other woman, before.
So no, that is not slander. Unless the charge for assault was over something really, really petty. In THAT case, I would agree that the charge of assault can sometimes be used TOO broadly. No means no, I agree, but that doesn’t mean that everyone who fails to stop trying to make out at the first “no” should be arrested. Smacked right square in the face? Yeah, I could agree with that, but arrested? No.
But this lady said this was sexual ASSAULT. I am assuming she means FAR more than heavy petting that he would stop immediately upon her first utterance of “no.”
And he has been reported to the police for it before, by at least one other woman that she is aware of. This is not some overly-romantic Casanova that she is describing, but somebody much more aggressive.
Yes, such a person is dangerous, and anything involving SEXUAL contact WITHOUT consent IS RAPE, especially he forced himself on her, and it DOES NOT have to include VAGINAL penetration.
Look at Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. They had oral sex.
Clinton, being very technical, declared “Ah did NAWT have SEX with thayat WOE-MAN.”
Come on, get real guy, yes you did. But it was oral, vaginal, but it still counts as a sex act.
So let me ask you, IF our Former Prez had FORCED Monica to perform the oral on him, would you claim that THAT was not rape, because there was no vaginal penetration?
It would certainly have still been rape, if Monica had clearly and emphatically had refused to willingly perform the act. Sexual Assault is Rape, and Rape is sexual Assault.
I agree that heavy petting that does not immediately stop should not be considered sexual assault, at least up to a point. But I seriously doubt that this good and kindly Catholic woman, the Original Poster, who is so concerned about not reporting a brother CHRISTIAN to the police, is accusing a CHRISTIAN of sexual ASSAULT for mere heavy petting that went too far. Come on, nobody seriously presses charges for that. The trauma that sexual assault victims are put through in the Court Room by the Defense attoneys, is much too severe to warrant for most of them pressing frivolous charges of sexual assult !! The Defense Attorneys trot out EVERY SIN the accuser has ever committed and many she has never committed and try to make her look like a filthy slutty whore on the witness stand. It is horrifically degrading, and most women would NEVER put themselves through even the RISK of such public degradation to press charges against a man for the fact that his “hands merely got too busy.” Again, Defense Attorneys put Rape victims through HELL ON EARTH in the courtroom.
Do you really believe this OP is talking about something minor???
 
Sascha said:
This is from the National Center for Victims of Crime:

definition of sexual assault -

Sexual assault takes many forms including attacks such as rape or attempted rape, as well as any unwanted sexual contact or threats. Usually a sexual assault occurs when someone touches any part of another person’s body in a sexual way, even through clothes, without that person’s consent. Some types of sexual acts which fall under the category of sexual assault include forced sexual intercourse (rape), sodomy (oral or anal sexual acts), child molestation, incest, fondling and attempted rape. Sexual assault in any form is often a devastating crime. Assailants can be strangers, acquaintances, friends, or family members. Assailants commit sexual assault by way of violence, threats, coercion, manipulation, pressure or tricks. Whatever the circumstances, no one asks or deserves to be sexually assaulted.
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That is good. Under this definition (which is not the legal definition, where rape has its own designation under the law), sexual assault can range from someone casually saying “hey baby, you’re hot” to full on rape. I’m just saying that based on what we have heard, assuming the man in question is a “dangerous rapist” is uncharitable to say the least. That’s all.
 
… I’ve also been told that you should forgive the person, and charging them would be a form of holding a grudge. Or not being responsable for your own actions

I’ve been told analogous things, right on these prayer forums, when I asked for prayer for help against a habitually thieving, bullying woman at work who is stealing her co-worker’s sales, trying to get us fired, committing fraudulent act after fraudulent act, etc.
I was castigated for not looking for another job, for not accepting “God’s Will” in this matter, for not FORGIVING the woman (of course I forgive her, I just want her to stop it, for pete’s sake), and for reporting her horrid, incorrigible behavior to management like I am supposed to according to my company’s OWN policy manual !!!
So don’t be surprised that some well-meaning Catholics advise you to “just forgive and forget and move on” and allow him to continue doing what he is doing, even about this.
I was given the same advice. It’s well meant, but it amounts to blaming the victim.

Jaypeeto4
 
quote=Jesusismyfriend;8844593]I’ve had incidents of this coming up several times. On one hand, a Christian person who abuses needs to learn that it’s wrong, so maybe reporting it would be a good thing. I’ve also been told that you should forgive the person, and charging them would be a form of holding a grudge
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these are not mutually exclusive. REporting a crime is not the same as refusing to forgive. Forgive does NOT mean condoning, enabling, excusing or abetting a crime.

.
Or not being responsable for your own actions. There was a recent incident of sexual assault, and I am wondering if charging the man would be right. He had another woman press charges against him, and my friends claim it was her fault, that she led him on. I don’t want people to think that of me, because I didn’t want what happened to happen. I said no several times. I even broke up with the guy when I realized he would continue to treat me that way. What should I do?
the
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I don’t understand the situation. If a man committed a crime and you witnessed you must absolutely report it. If a man assaulted you absolutely you must report it. It is highly unchristian to allow a predator to go free and endanger other women.
 
Forgiveness and Justice are two different things.

If you just finished washing your kitchen floor, and you told your child to remove his boots at the door, and then later your child walked through your freshly washed kitchen wearing boots covered in mud and dog poo, you wouldn’t (I hope) just say, “Oh, that’s OK.” No! You’d likely make him rewash the floor on his hands and knees, clean his boots, pick up the dog poo from the yard, and maybe even add some other consequences. You would FORGIVE your child, but JUSTICE would be done, and hopefully your child would learn from the experience and respect you and your instructions a bit more.
 
Catholic90 said:
Forgiveness and Justice are two different things.

If you just finished washing your kitchen floor, and you told your child to remove his boots at the door, and then later your child walked through your freshly washed kitchen wearing boots covered in mud and dog poo, you wouldn’t (I hope) just say, “Oh, that’s OK.” No! You’d likely make him rewash the floor on his hands and knees, clean his boots, pick up the dog poo from the yard, and maybe even add some other consequences. You would FORGIVE your child, but JUSTICE would be done, and hopefully your child would learn from the experience and respect you and your instructions a bit more.
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Good points!
 
I feel that there is a fair amount of uncharitable posting on this thread. Not to the perpetrator, but towards victims of sexual abuse.

A person who has committed an assault that is within the competency of the legal authorities to prosecute should, indeed, be reported for that action because, as has been said, that person represents a clear and present danger to other people while he (or she - it happens) feels that they are getting away with it.

All that being said, I would never dream of suggesting to ANY victim of a sexual assault that not following it up was in any way sinful as some here have implied. The trauma of making such a report, filling in legal statements, picking someone out of a line-up, going to trial, giving evidence, etc may simply be too much for some victims to contend with when considered with the trauma of the crime they have experienced. Their inability or incapability of facing that sort of stress is not THEIR sin, it’s compounding the sin of the abuser.

Only the victim can ever make the report, but they should NEVER be or feel forced to do so.
 
Luna_Lovecraft said:
OP, if I’m reading this right, you’re basically saying the you’ve been sexually assaulted by someone you were dating, someone who had assault charges pressed against him by another woman, and now if you’re wondering if you should contact the police.

I’m going to say this a dozen times so you understand clearly: YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES!

You have a duty to yourself and this creep’s past and (potential) future victims to do everything in your power to make sure he never hurts another woman.

It matters not one whit what this man’s religion is. Not one.

And after you’ve contacted law enforcement, please contact a rape crisis clinic and get help for yourself. Even if you think you’re Okay. Even if all of this happened weeks or months ago. If you live in the US, The National Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network, www.rainn.org, can put you in touch with an organization in your area.

And those friends of your who told you that it was her fault because she led him on? Well, you should re-evaluate your friendship with those folks. No one - no man, woman, or child - gets what’s coming to them when they’re sexually assaulted.

Luna
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Absolutely and yes no one ‘asks for it’ or ‘has it coming’.
 
Sascha said:
Based on her title and what she said in her OP, it’s pretty much clear - sexual assault. I’m not getting depends on the nature of . . . . Once any person says “no,” everyone stops. I would hope we agree on that.
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Agreed.
 
Garyjohn2 said:
That is good. Under this definition (which is not the legal definition, where rape has its own designation under the law), sexual assault can range from someone casually saying “hey baby, you’re hot” to full on rape. I’m just saying that based on what we have heard, assuming the man in question is a “dangerous rapist” is uncharitable to say the least. That’s all.
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Please re-read that definition. Sexual assault is a serious matter and it causes trauma. In Canada the crime of rape in termed 'sexual assault.
 
Garyjohn2 said:
That is good. Under this definition (which is not the legal definition, where rape has its own designation under the law), sexual assault can range from someone casually saying “hey baby, you’re hot” to full on rape. I’m just saying that based on what we have heard, assuming the man in question is a “dangerous rapist” is uncharitable to say the least. That’s all.
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Is someone said, “hey baby, you’re hot” to me, they had better be referring to the temperature! While saying that is not sexual assault, depending on the circumstances, it could certainly be sexual harassment, especially if this occurs in a workplace or school and is sexual in intent. ANY unwanted touching, even your “butt pinch” should not happen. If she says NO, it means NO! If you are not married, why are you touching her butt anyway? Hands off! Pinching hurts.
 
Thanks for answering this, guys. I knew the answers before, but I guess I just needed a shove in the right direction. Some of my friends advised me not to, because they thought it was consensual. They didn’t witness it, and may have been minimizing what happened to me because they have been through a million times worse. As for getting counselling… I have a mental illness (dissociative disorder) so I am already getting treatment. Thankfully, that happened because I never would have pressed charges if my therapist hadn’t told me it WAS sexual assault when I let it all spill out. Apparently it is kind of sketchy as to whether what he did to the other woman was. People say she came onto him, so it shouldn’t be classified as such. I tend to think that if a woman comes on to a man and something happens, that would be consensual. However, in this case, he took advantage of her after he broke up with me. Just because she consented once, that doesn’t mean she would or should consent every time. Not everyone agrees though.
 
Catholic90 said:
Is someone said, “hey baby, you’re hot” to me, they had better be referring to the temperature! While saying that is not sexual assault, depending on the circumstances, it could certainly be sexual harassment, especially if this occurs in a workplace or school and is sexual in intent. ANY unwanted touching, even your “butt pinch” should not happen. If she says NO, it means NO! If you are not married, why are you touching her butt anyway? Hands off! Pinching hurts.
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Am I wrong about this, or doesn’t only penetration or attempted penetration fall under the sexual assault headline? Isn’t anything that falls short of that sexual abuse or sexual harrassment? Maybe the definition is different in Canada.
 
Jaypeeto4 said:
**
This dear lady, the O.P. is concerned about getting “a Catholic” or “a Christian” in legal trouble. Like so many of you have rightly pointed out, a true, repentant, converted Catholic Christian DOES NOT GO AROUND sexually assaulting people. So she should not WORRY about putting a “Christian” under arrest. He is NOT, at least not right now,
a CHRISTIAN, much less a good Catholic in any sense of the word.
I understand her concern about that, though. St. Paul castigated the early Christians for pressing charges against other Christians before the Pagan authorities, even advising, right in Scripture itself, that this is scandalous and that you should rather permit yourself to be defrauded (and fraud has always been a Crime) rather than go to Court against another Christian, especially before unbelievers. So she is right to be concerned about getting a “Christian” in trouble. It’s admirable. But she has nothing to worry about here. You have to balance things out. Like you said in your reply, “especially in this case.” Absolutely. You cannot rightly allow yourself AND YOUR NEIGHBORS to be in grave danger out of a sense of Mercy that, in this case, has no basis for it’s application.
.**

Thank you for getting my point. I was thinking about that verse when I asked the question.
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Jesusismyfriend said:
Am I wrong about this, or doesn’t only penetration or attempted penetration fall under the sexual assault headline? Isn’t anything that falls short of that sexual abuse or sexual harrassment? Maybe the definition is different in Canada.
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Okay. I looked it up, and I was wrong. Any act falling short of rape is sexual assault. Rape is classified as rape. So I guess I was wrong to classify it as sexual assault.
There are arguments about consent from what I read. Some people believe if someone is guilted by a person in authority, it is sexual assault. But a similar thing happened a year or so ago, and the police told me if you consent, you consent to everything that happens after consent is given, whether you say no afterwards or not. They also didn’t see anything wrong with a partner pushing his or her partner into having sex. Seems to me that police officer was just going by his personal beliefs and not the Canadian law.
 
Jesusismyfriend said:
Okay. I looked it up, and I was wrong. Any act falling short of rape is sexual assault. Rape is classified as rape. So I guess I was wrong to classify it as sexual assault.
There are arguments about consent from what I read. Some people believe if someone is guilted by a person in authority, it is sexual assault. But a similar thing happened a year or so ago, and the police told me if you consent, you consent to everything that happens after consent is given, whether you say no afterwards or not. They also didn’t see anything wrong with a partner pushing his or her partner into having sex. Seems to me that police officer was just going by his personal beliefs and not the Canadian law.
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No in no, no, no. It does not matter if you consented to one thing , it does not matter id you consented on an earlier day. You can say yes and change your mind.

I thought that in Canada, rape is termed ‘sexual assault’. In other places there are terms for the different kinds of sexual assault. Whatever, if he touched you in a sexual way when you said no, make a report. You would be able to find organisations who would help you with the trauma, advise you more properly on the law etc. God bless.
 
Jesusismyfriend said:
I’ve had incidents of this coming up several times. On one hand, a Christian person who abuses needs to learn that it’s wrong, so maybe reporting it would be a good thing. I’ve also been told that you should forgive the person, and charging them would be a form of holding a grudge. Or not being responsable for your own actions. There was a recent incident of sexual assault, and I am wondering if charging the man would be right. He had another woman press charges against him, and my friends claim it was her fault, that she led him on. I don’t want people to think that of me, because I didn’t want what happened to happen. I said no several times. I even broke up with the guy when I realized he would continue to treat me that way. What should I do?
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We should not discriminate according to religion. If this person were not a Christian, what would you do?

Do that.

I agree with everyone who says that if he did something illegal to you, then you need to report him to the police, have him charged, and stand as a witness against him, in support of his previous victims, and in defense of his potential future victims. After he’s in jail and has paid the penalty of his crime, there will be lots of time to forgive him.
 
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