Is It "Wrong" To Claim Someone Is In Heaven?

[Gorgias]

It is an infallible declaration that the canonized person is in Heaven. You are not obliged to pray to that saint for intercession but you are obliged to believe that person is in Heaven.

See this interesting discussion on canonization from Zenit, on the EWTN site, penned by “Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum university”.

He makes a few interesting points (all emphases mine):

• the object of canonization is that the person declared as a saint is now in heaven and can be invoked as an intercessor by all the faithful. The infallibility of this action is accepted by the majority of Catholic theologians but has not itself been the subject of a definition.
• the infallibility of canonization [is] within the area of faith insofar as the venerability of saints is a dogma grounded in Revelation, and the determination as to which persons can be thus venerated is a necessary exercise of infallible authority.
• With a canonization, the Pope mandates (rather than permits, as is the case of beatification) that a saint be venerated in the Church’s liturgy and especially with the Eucharistic celebration in his honor. Considering that the Mass is the highest and most perfect form of worship, it is logical that the Holy Spirit would guard the Pope and the Church from any error regarding a canonized person’s definitive state.
• it must be recognized that this is an argument based on congruence and is not apodictic. The institution of a liturgical celebration does not in itself imply an exercise of infallibility.

In other words, while “the majority of Catholic theologians” would say that a papal canonization is infallible, it is nonetheless not something that has been officially defined by the Church. While “it is logical” and therefore congruent, it is not apodictic (i.e., beyond dispute).

 

[ThunderFox]

actually we can know when we sit fit if someone is going to hell. For instance if someone dies in a state of fornication, then we know indeed that person is in hell. But if they repented at the last minute then we dont know. I am talking about case in say someone is murdered and well they die with a sin of fornication then they will be in hell.

There are other cases in which we can see someone who is in hell like those who have fallen away and have not returned to christ.

 

[ccmcmg]

actually we can know when we sit fit if someone is going to hell. For instance if someone dies in a state of fornication, then we know indeed that person is in hell. But if they repented at the last minute then we dont know. I am talking about case in say someone is murdered and well they die with a sin of fornication then they will be in hell.

There are other cases in which we can see someone who is in hell like those who have fallen away and have not returned to christ.

Neither you nor I know the state of anyone’s soul when they die. That’s the point. Even if you saw kill another person and the perpetrator died shortly thereafter, we still don’t know the state of the killer’s soul, the circumstances of his choices. However, once death has arrived, the decision is already made.

 

[Markie_Boy]

This is one of the “issues” I have with the church canonizing Saints - they are judging that we “know” they are in heaven.

No matter what, God alone knows and decides a person’s eternal destiny. God alone knows their heart.

Please correct or educate me if I am way off, but I just can’t see how on earth someone could guarantee someone else is in heaven.

 

[ccmcmg]

This is one of the “issues” I have with the church canonizing Saints - they are judging that we “know” they are in heaven.

No matter what, God alone knows and decides a person’s eternal destiny. God alone knows their heart.

Please correct or educate me if I am way off, but I just can’t see how on earth someone could guarantee someone else is in heaven.

There is certain criteria that must be met before someone becomes a saint, and I think the Catholic Church believes that if two miracles are attributed to that person’s intercession, it has to be because God has shown us through those miracles. Becoming a saint isn’t a popularity contest, or even because someone led an extraordinary life on earth.

dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-become-a-saint-in-the-catholic-church.html

 

[Missian_Alyssa]

I am not God and it is Jesus place to make the final judgement.

We know from converted muslims that Jesus can make himself known through dreams and visions. It is possible, one at death could recieve a vision or dream. All we can do in this life if pray and support each other in our walk with God.

Lord, I am a failable carbon life form. Please, give me grace and strength to make my mistakes with others right. Please forgive me for anyway I have displeased you. Fill us with your Holy Spirit, so that his fruits may control us. Please, Please draw those I know and love closer to you. Amen

Daniel

 

[marymmma]

My 28-year-old son died three weeks ago with complications due to morbid obesity. He was a wonderful person, a wonderful son who had many health problems both physical and mental.He was baptized Catholic and we went to church for years but our whole family eventually became fallen away Catholics. He was in constant pain. Couldn’t sit for long, lay for long, stand for more than a minute towards the end. He suffered depression, social anxiety disorder, fears and phobias dealing with death, doctors, hospitals and wasn’t able to seek medical care because of these fears. His mind was so messed up. He use to pray nightly for God to please help relieve him of his pain. He would cry himself to sleep every night scared he would no wake up in the morning. Eventually I guess he became angry with God because his health and fears just got worse and worse. Four months ago he told me that he didn’t believe in God anymore. That with all he prayed, and I prayed for him day and night for years, that God would have helped him. I truly don’t believe he meant it. He was talking from his pain.

When he went into the Catholic hospital he let the priest and/or nuns who came to visit him pray over him. The day we found out he was going to die, I asked him to turn to Jesus and he felt that he wouldn’t be allowed to because he said he didn’t believe in Jesus. I told him that of course he could. He was upset, about that and just finding out he was going to die so I let it drop. I was going to get a priest to come talk to him but myself was in shock upon finding out he was dying. That night as he was once again having hallucinations from lack of oxygen to the brain and too much buildup of carbon dioxide in his brain, I hollered out for the devil to leave him alone. That he was a child of God’s and I claimed him for such. I even made the sign of the cross on him.

That night he was so much worse. We tried to get a priest but one wasn’t available. He passed during the early morning hours after fighting his hallucinations all night long. He suffered terribly. They even put restraints on him but he kept breaking out of them. Calling out to me to take him home. I don’t know if I can ever get this night or the previous ones out of my mind. A nun came in a couple hours later and said prayers over him. I’d like to know if they were his last rights but I don’t know. Wish I did.

I’ve always believed that someone who suffered so much on earth in body and mind would go to heaven. He was truly a good person and I believe if I had more time I could of talked him into admitting that he believed in God. And having a priest talk to him but we ran out of time. People tell me that perhaps in his dying hours he cried out to God, even silently. I believe God is just and merciful and forgiving to us that are sick as he was. How can God not be? I can’t believe hell was made for someone like my son. Even in all the pain he was always in he was loving and kind and good. I have to believe that when he was in judgement before God that God could see into his heart and soul and forgive him his sins.

Can anyone help me? I am grieving so much and have to know he is in heaven. That precious soul who suffered so much here on earth can’t be in hell. Please???

 

[Sheeniac]

I stand with you in a fog of unknowing with you, but it seems that your son may have been ‘mentally incapacitated’ by the pain and anguish. I don’t mean it in the clinical sense of incapacitation, but rather that he was suffering so much that it clouded his thinking on and relationship with God.

• I asked him to turn to Jesus and he felt that he wouldn’t be allowed to because he said he didn’t believe in Jesus

You were right - of course he could, and I believe that the Holy Spirit understands as well. I would suggest Romans 8:27 (the whole section, not just the verse). The USCCB site uses the NAB translation, and I’ve certainly read better wording, so perhaps look in a different bible at home.

Here’s something from a Prot blog that says it better:

*"And how does He pray for us? Romans 8:26 says “But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words” (NLT). These groans I think are the deep, inexpressible sighs and feelings of love He has for us. He loves us with an everlasting love; and He longs for that day of our full redemption (Rom. 8:23).

Now His prayers for us are not at all separate from ours. In fact, His groanings are the same groanings we have. When we groan in prayer He groans in prayer; and when He groans in prayer we groan in prayer. For He dwells in us. And when He prays for us He prays in us and through us. Therefore, His prayers become our prayers. Thus whenever we pray we are praying “in the Spirit.”"*

It’s small comfort, but I will lift you, your son and your whole family up in prayer at Mass tomorrow. If you give me his first name, I would like to have a Mass said for him.

 

[marymmma]

I would appreciate that very much. His name is Gary Aube. Anyone who would care to do the same i would very much appreciate it. You have comforted me very much. I can’t wsit till i see him again in heaven.

 

[marymmma]

I would appreciate that very much. His name is Gary Aube. Anyone who would care to do the same i would very much appreciate it. You have comforted me very much. I can’t wsit till i see him again in heaven.

 

[Markie_Boy]

The one thing that I know for sure, is that God’s Love is perfect, pure, and so much greater than ours will ever be.

Start your journey to peace at that point, and never loose sight of it.

I have prayed for you and your son upon reading this.

With Love and Peace,

Marc