Is it wrong to not oppose secular gay marriage?

[Rau]

I am not calling those claiming a same sex orientation liars.

But to claim that same sex orientation [is] innate (better word) is simply not true. Many homosexuals have admitted that their “orientation” was a choice and they have returned to a normal life.

Why do you focus so much on the cause, and in particular, fighting any suggestion that the cause could be something gone awry in the very early development of the person? Why are you so adamant?

The vast majority of homosexual people swear they made no choice in the matter of which sex to “prefer” for romantic and physical engagement. They grew up, felt attraction to the same sex, and not to the opposite sex. Numerous come from “ordinary” families.

I assume one single, honest person, perhaps a Catholic struggling day to day with same sex attraction, struggling to remain chaste, would undermine your argument? Or are you going to claim no such person exists?

Is it not better to simply admit - we don’t know the cause?

 

[shelby_sun]

Many people choose lifestyles that others condemn. Moreover, there are many homosexuals who freely admit that their lifestyle is a voluntary preference.

There is a very considerable body of testimony from tens of thousands of men and women who once lived as homosexuals. These ex-“gays” have renounced their former lifestyles and many have become heterosexual in self-identification and desire, while others have stopped at the point of comfort with their own gender and freedom from same-sex desires.

Of course there is but there is none on the homosexuals claiming to have their SSO as far back as they can remember. Yes they may renounce their behavior, just like a woman may renounce the fact that she once slept with every man see saw, but that does mean she isn’t still straight.

Shelby, I do not have to prove anything. Misguided homosexuals are the ones claiming that homosexuality is innate, or they were “born that way”. The burden of proof is theirs.

They really can’t prove that.

A gay male is physically nothing more than a heterosexual with a behavior problem.

That is your opinion. Did you chose to be straight? When was it that you made that choice? I for one did not chose, I have always been attracted to men, no choice needed.
If you want to spend your life condemning others, you are free to waste your life. I hope God is more forgiving with you than you are with homosexuals or you might just find that you will be going to hell as he brings them into heaven. It’s your risk not mine.

 

[Rau]

Many people choose lifestyles that others condemn. Moreover, there are many homosexuals who freely admit that their lifestyle is a voluntary preference…

Lifestyle is not the topic. We can all agree a life dedicated to fornication is an immoral lifestyle, regardless of sexual orientation. And be careful what you mean by “choice” - as a heterosexual I chose to date women. It is understandable that a homosexual “chooses” to date the same sex (leaving aside the question of morality).

That is entirely different from the question of their underlying attraction, which is not “chosen”.

Your argument is that if you are a man, then you ARE (by definition) attracted to women, but you are choosing to behave differently, or have been deluded into wanting to behave differently. This implies every single homosexual intrinsically chooses their orientation, or is a victim of external human influence. Surely you see that is not going to stand up to testing. Only one “ordinary” sufferer is required to demolish the argument. One honest, struggling individual.

Heterosexuals do not choose their orientation. Something in their biology does. It is possible that that something is not solely governed by their visible sex?

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Why do you focus so much on the cause, and in particular, fighting any suggestion that the cause could be something gone awry in the very early development of the person? Why are you so adamant?

Because a suggestion is simply that…a suggestion. Not FACT.

Do you expect me to accept that homosexuality is innate because gay sympathizers SUGGEST that is true???

Come on. Rau. I may be adamant, but why do you fall for it?

The vast majority of homosexual people swear they made no choice in the matter of which sex to “prefer” for romantic and physical engagement. They grew up, felt attraction to the same sex, and not to the opposite sex. Numerous come from “ordinary” families.

I would be careful about the “vast majority” …I don’t think so.

I assume one single, honest person, perhaps a Catholic struggling day to day with same sex attraction, struggling to remain chaste, would undermine your argument? Or are you going to claim no such person exists?

I am sure there are some Catholics struggling day to day with same sex attraction, struggling to remain chaste. I know of some who did and overcame it and are now living normal lives.

The problem facing your “honest Catholic homosexual” is that there is no truly objective means of determining whether a person is innately homosexual. We must depend entirely upon a person’s claim that his or her homosexuality is innate. The taint of political self-interest alone makes such evidence wholly untrustworthy.

Is it not better to simply admit - we don’t know the cause?

No.

Because if homosexuality is not innate, it must be acquired. And if it can be acquired, we dare not allow homosexuality to be legitimized to our children. If there remains any shadow of doubt as to the cause of homosexuality, we must err on the side of protecting
our children. We must actively discourage them from viewing homosexuality as safe and normal, when in fact it is demonstrably neither safe nor normal.

Normalcy is “functioning according to nature or design.” Normalcy is not based on popular opinion.

 

[Rau]

Because a suggestion is simply that…a suggestion. Not FACT.

Do you expect me to accept that homosexuality is innate because gay sympathizers SUGGEST that is true??? …

I am sure there are some Catholics struggling day to day with same sex attraction, struggling to remain chaste. I know of some who did and overcame it and are now living normal lives.

The problem facing your “honest Catholic homosexual” is that there is no truly objective means of determining whether a person is innately homosexual. We must depend entirely upon a person’s claim that his or her homosexuality is innate. The taint of political self-interest alone makes such evidence wholly untrustworthy.

Because if homosexuality is not innate, it must be acquired. And if it can be acquired, we dare not allow homosexuality to be legitimized to our children. If there remains any shadow of doubt as to the cause of homosexuality, we must err on the side of protecting
our children. We must actively discourage them from viewing homosexuality as safe and normal, when in fact it is demonstrably neither safe nor normal.

Normalcy is “functioning according to nature or design.” Normalcy is not based on popular opinion.

I don’t expect you to believe anything about its nature, other than the cause is not known. You are going out of your way, beyond established science, to insert that it “cannot” be of any biological influence. This is no less speculative than, in the absence of reliable data, to assert the reverse!

The “cause” question is simply not this important. But your focus on it as arising solely from human influence suggests your pre-disposition is to assume the worst about your fellow man. Though science knows not the cause of homosexual inclination, and the Church accepts that, you hold fast to the view that the **inclination itself **suggests something sinister. You prefer to believe that those homosexuals that struggle with it tend to “overcome” it (that is, lose all same sex attraction, and become attracted to the opposite sex) - after all, good people can clearly overcome some mere human influence issue! Yet this is not the reality. Good people can certainly work to live a chaste life.

What does it mean to legitimise homosexuality? Does it mean accept people might be telling the truth? Is every single person tainted with political self-interest? Homosexuality is neither legitimate nor illegitimate. It just is, and it has to be coped with, and those so afflicted, whatever the cause, need to lead the best life they can, a chaste life. Perhaps that could be taught to our children?

 

[glendab]

Hello Shelby.

After someone like you condemned them to hell. Those who returned to “normal” life were not truly gay to begin with. They were simply one of those individuals who experimented or tried to fit in somewhere, like that college girl that has a one time sexual experience with another women, usually when they are drunk out of their minds. I would bet there are much fewer of those you speak of than actual homosexuals.

Since you are insisting that those with opposing viewpoints are “condemning them [the homosexuals] to hell,” and that those who don’t walk away from that deviant lifestyle have some how abandoned it as a committed lifestyle choice, I’ll chime in hear and state that YOUR judgmentalism is too much for me and I think you’re being too insulting to those who simply are expressing their views that are contrary to the PC norms of conversations about SSA & SSM.

Bottom line is that homosexuals, bisexuals, transgendered persons and plain ole gays are in the minority and choose to live outside the norms of society. God doesn’t create people to live outside His creation in ways that are abhorrent to Him. They chose to give into a temptation and decide for themselves what they do. What they do is gravely disordered. There is help for them available. It isn’t okay to tell people they have to accept their deviant ways. You cannot force me to change my mind because the political climate has gone gay-friendly. Nor can you expect the Church to do so either. The Kingdom of God is not a democracy. God’s Law is that - God’s Law. It doesn’t change. He can, however have mercy on those who break His law and fall from grace. That is called Mercy. But no one can make Him give it. It depends on the person in need of that mercy to ask for it. God cannot give it without their asking for it. Being supposedly supportive of gays by enabling their deviant behaviors to continue or making excuse for them harms them in that they will have less incentive to ask for mercy. If you make it all nice for them, they have less reason to try to change. If you love a gay person, the best thing you can do for them is tell them the Truth and be authentic in your concern for them, instead of demanding that all of the society change to accommodate them. Telling them what the Church teaches about their behaviors and letting them know they can repent and change is Love in Action. That is what real love is all about. Jesus didn’t sugar coat anything. He didn’t dumb down His message. He did tell folks the things they needed to hear not what they wanted to hear. You should read more Scripture and fewer newspapers.

Oh well, I’ve said too much again. Forgive me.

Glenda

 

[shelby_sun]

Hello Shelby.

Since you are insisting that those with opposing viewpoints are “condemning them [the homosexuals] to hell,” and that those who don’t walk away from that deviant lifestyle have some how abandoned it as a committed lifestyle choice, I’ll chime in hear and state that YOUR judgmentalism is too much for me and I think you’re being too insulting to those who simply are expressing their views that are contrary to the PC norms of conversations about SSA & SSM.

Bottom line is that homosexuals, bisexuals, transgendered persons and plain ole gays are in the minority and choose to live outside the norms of society. God doesn’t create people to live outside His creation in ways that are abhorrent to Him. They chose to give into a temptation and decide for themselves what they do. What they do is gravely disordered. There is help for them available. It isn’t okay to tell people they have to accept their deviant ways. You cannot force me to change my mind because the political climate has gone gay-friendly. Nor can you expect the Church to do so either. The Kingdom of God is not a democracy. God’s Law is that - God’s Law. It doesn’t change. He can, however have mercy on those who break His law and fall from grace. That is called Mercy. But no one can make Him give it. It depends on the person in need of that mercy to ask for it. God cannot give it without their asking for it. Being supposedly supportive of gays by enabling their deviant behaviors to continue or making excuse for them harms them in that they will have less incentive to ask for mercy. If you make it all nice for them, they have less reason to try to change. If you love a gay person, the best thing you can do for them is tell them the Truth and be authentic in your concern for them, instead of demanding that all of the society change to accommodate them. Telling them what the Church teaches about their behaviors and letting them know they can repent and change is Love in Action. That is what real love is all about. Jesus didn’t sugar coat anything. He didn’t dumb down His message. He did tell folks the things they needed to hear not what they wanted to hear. You should read more Scripture and fewer newspapers.

Oh well, I’ve said too much again. Forgive me.

Glenda

I am not being any more insulting than anyone else here. Never have I said anyone needs or should change and I certainly didn’t say the Catholic church should, so you just chose to read into that and then reflect that onto me just because I don’t agree with you. You can believe what you want and treat others however you want. Nor have I demand anything. Maybe you should try rereading my post. BTW I don’t read the newspaper dear.

Who are you to say what God can and cannot not do?! God is capable of anything. At the Catholic school I work at we have at least 4 gay male that work there that have long time partners who have been together 10, 15, 20 years. Not one of the priests who have been there over the years as ever talked to them about there partners, or told them they should repent. They are welcome at out school and at all our events. I would bet everything I have that these men are better people and better Catholic then many of you who preach God’s word. How many times have you gone to third world countries to live in poverty and filth to help have done it every summer for year and they teach our high school boys to go out and do the same. One of our gay teachers handles organizing over 40,000 hours of community service by our students every each helping over 100 needy organizations all while your reading your Scriptures. Now I guess I have said to much also. If what I say is not much for you, no one is forcing you to read it.

 

[glendab]

Hello Shelby.

I am not being any more insulting than anyone else here. Never have I said anyone needs or should change and I certainly didn’t say the Catholic church should, so you just chose to read into that and then reflect that onto me just because I don’t agree with you. You can believe what you want and treat others however you want. Nor have I demand anything. Maybe you should try rereading my post. BTW I don’t read the newspaper dear.

Who are you to say what God can and cannot not do?! God is capable of anything. At the Catholic school I work at we have at least 4 gay male that work there that have long time partners who have been together 10, 15, 20 years. Not one of the priests who have been there over the years as ever talked to them about there partners, or told them they should repent. They are welcome at out school and at all our events. I would bet everything I have that these men are better people and better Catholic then many of you who preach God’s word. How many times have you gone to third world countries to live in poverty and filth to help have done it every summer for year and they teach our high school boys to go out and do the same. One of our gay teachers handles organizing over 40,000 hours of community service by our students every each helping over 100 needy organizations all while your reading your Scriptures. Now I guess I have said to much also. If what I say is not much for you, no one is forcing you to read it.

I wouldn’t brag about having a gay male around school children too loudly if I were you. Many hearts are still healing from the sexual abuse of minors in and around the Church and her properties, let alone having four. Perhaps your Pastor could benefit from this little bit of wisdom from the USCCB:

Child and Youth Protection

MANDATE AND GOALS FOR THE COMMITTEE

The committee assists the bishops, both collectively and individually, on all matters related to child and youth protection, and it oversees the development of the Conference’s plans and programs for child and youth protection. The committee provides the bishops with comprehensive planning and recommendations concerning child and youth protection by coordinating the efforts of the staff and the National Review Board.

This mandate includes the following areas of responsibility: Provide support and assistance to the National Review Board, safe environment programs, diocesan audits.

KEY MISSION RESPONSIBILITIES
1.Advising the bishops on all matters related to child and youth protection and the restoring of trust between the bishops and the Church including a sensitivity to the impact on culturally diverse communities
2.Communicating the message of the bishops of protecting young people and restoring trust to the entire Catholic community and to the public
3.Studying issues of significance related to the mandate of the committee
4.Being in relationship with and providing consultation to bishops and their dioceses
5.Being in relationship with outside organizations, the Holy See, and other episcopal conferences

KEY MISSION RELATIONSHIPS
1.With the National Review Board for the implementation of the Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People and research studies
2.With targeted committees and offices of the USCCB, especially the Committees on Canonical Affairs and Church Governance; Clergy, Consecrated Life, and Vocations; Evangelization and Catechesis; and Catholic Education
3.With the Holy See and other episcopal conferences
4.With the dioceses of the United States
5.With targeted national organizations and governmental bodies

Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People

usccb.org/about/child-and-youth-protection/index.cfm

Glenda

 

[shelby_sun]

Hello Shelby.

I wouldn’t brag about having a gay male around school children too loudly if I were you. Many hearts are still healing from the sexual abuse of minors in and around the Church and her properties, let alone having four. Perhaps your Pastor could benefit from this little bit of wisdom from the USCCB:

Child and Youth Protection

MANDATE AND GOALS FOR THE COMMITTEE

The committee assists the bishops, both collectively and individually, on all matters related to child and youth protection, and it oversees the development of the Conference’s plans and programs for child and youth protection. The committee provides the bishops with comprehensive planning and recommendations concerning child and youth protection by coordinating the efforts of the staff and the National Review Board.

This mandate includes the following areas of responsibility: Provide support and assistance to the National Review Board, safe environment programs, diocesan audits.

KEY MISSION RESPONSIBILITIES
1.Advising the bishops on all matters related to child and youth protection and the restoring of trust between the bishops and the Church including a sensitivity to the impact on culturally diverse communities
2.Communicating the message of the bishops of protecting young people and restoring trust to the entire Catholic community and to the public
3.Studying issues of significance related to the mandate of the committee
4.Being in relationship with and providing consultation to bishops and their dioceses
5.Being in relationship with outside organizations, the Holy See, and other episcopal conferences

KEY MISSION RELATIONSHIPS
1.With the National Review Board for the implementation of the Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People and research studies
2.With targeted committees and offices of the USCCB, especially the Committees on Canonical Affairs and Church Governance; Clergy, Consecrated Life, and Vocations; Evangelization and Catechesis; and Catholic Education
3.With the Holy See and other episcopal conferences
4.With the dioceses of the United States
5.With targeted national organizations and governmental bodies

Committee for the Protection of Children and Young People

usccb.org/about/child-and-youth-protection/index.cfm

Glenda

No, I wouldn’t brag knowing someone like you! There are just no words to describe you. I am fully proud to know these me and see how they teach, guide, help, support, each and everyone of our students on a daily basis with very little pay. 99% of our student love this school and we get twice as many applicants than we can take each year during admissions.

I don’t know what god you grew up with or how you learned about your faith, but I was born and raised Catholic and I have never been exposed to someone like you…Thank you God. I would bet that any of these men do ten time more to serve God in one day than you or I have in our entire live.

You said in another post that gays are in the vast minority so why don’t you go speak out on all the evil things that heterosexuals (the vast majority) are doing in the world. Wouldn’t that be a better way to serve God? Or do you just condemn gays?

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

I don’t expect you to believe anything about its nature, other than the cause is not known. You are going out of your way, beyond established science, to insert that it “cannot” be of any biological influence. This is no less speculative than, in the absence of reliable data, to assert the reverse!

The “cause” question is simply not this important. But your focus on it as arising solely from human influence suggests your pre-disposition is to assume the worst about your fellow man. Though science knows not the cause of homosexual inclination, and the Church accepts that, you hold fast to the view that the **inclination itself **suggests something sinister. You prefer to believe that those homosexuals that struggle with it tend to “overcome” it (that is, lose all same sex attraction, and become attracted to the opposite sex) - after all, good people can clearly overcome some mere human influence issue! Yet this is not the reality. Good people can certainly work to live a chaste life.

What does it mean to legitimise homosexuality? Does it mean accept people might be telling the truth? Is every single person tainted with political self-interest? Homosexuality is neither legitimate nor illegitimate. It just is, and it has to be coped with, and those so afflicted, whatever the cause, need to lead the best life they can, a chaste life. Perhaps that could be taught to our children?

It boils down to this:

Gay sympathizers claim that homosexuality is innate (natural, “born that way”)
Since it is their “claim” they have to prove it. They can’t.

You accept their claim. I don’t.

Since they can’t prove it and you can’t prove it, you must admit the possibility that homosexuality may be acquired.

In reality, the “gay” movement does not want a biological cause to be found. If science were to identify a biological cause of homosexuality ( a gay gene), that day would begin the “race for the cure.” And a great many purportedly happy homosexual men and women would secretly join that race. Not only that, but parents could test for homosexuality during pregnancy and with abortion being legal…well you get the point.

 

[Rau]

It boils down to this:

Gay sympathizers claim that homosexuality is innate (natural, “born that way”)
Since it is their “claim” they have to prove it. They can’t.

You accept their claim. I don’t.

Since they can’t prove it and you can’t prove it, you must admit the possibility that homosexuality may be acquired.

In reality, the “gay” movement does not want a biological cause to be found. If science were to identify a biological cause of homosexuality ( a gay gene), that day would begin the “race for the cure.” And a great many purportedly happy homosexual men and women would secretly join that race. Not only that, but parents could test for homosexuality during pregnancy and with abortion being legal…well you get the point.

I disagree on several counts.

First - I don’t know the cause. I admit as possibilities all the common, credibly expressed alternatives, including psychological influence during youth, but also biological influences (which is not as simple as, or the same as, a gay gene.). I have an open mind on the cause. But the key point is - I see no basis to rule out any particular class of cause (from those debated in credible circles) nor any imperative (moral or otherwise) to do so.

Do you rule out the possibility of a biological cause, and if so, why?

Second - I hold that “unwanted” (or un-embraced) SSA is a tough cross to bear. As Catholics, I think we should be “sympathisers”.

I don’t know what gay people want in respect of our understanding of the cause, or whether they all want the same. I suspect some would like a “cure”. Some would like it to be determined that the attraction is akin to blue eyes. I suspect some would be distressed to learn that they are the victims of a defect, or abnormal in-utero conditions, or something else. But, I believe moral truths are not governed by any of this.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Do you rule out the possibility of a biological cause, and if so, why?

Nope! but I am very skeptical.

Because the the gays I know who became “un-gay” were castigated by the gay community.

They were challenged to, in essence, prove they weren’t still innately “gay”. This is the height of absurdity since homosexual immutability was never proven in the first place.

If a biological cause is discovered I will have to admit that I am wrong. That discovery looks like an impossibility and would be covered up by the gay community itself ASAP.

I support homosexual’s liberty to practice their individual beliefs and behaviors right up to the point at which they propose to impose their redefinition of nature upon others.

The homosexual political agenda is something quite apart from the practice of our personal choices and behavior. I will continue to “out” this agenda for what it is, including the errant argument that all of society should support the homosexual pathos, which offends the laws of nature and our God.

 

[Rau]

Nope! but I am very skeptical.

Because the the gays I know who became “un-gay” were castigated by the gay community.

They were challenged to, in essence, prove they weren’t still innately “gay”. This is the height of absurdity since homosexual immutability was never proven in the first place.

If a biological cause is discovered I will have to admit that I am wrong. That discovery looks like an impossibility and would be covered up by the gay community itself ASAP.

I support homosexual’s liberty to practice their individual beliefs and behaviors right up to the point at which they propose to impose their redefinition of nature upon others.

The homosexual political agenda is something quite apart from the practice of our personal choices and behavior. I will continue to “out” this agenda for what it is, including the errant argument that all of society should support the homosexual pathos, which offends the laws of nature and our God.

I’d be skeptical that the sample size you’re dealing with is sufficient to draw any meaningful conclusions!

I am fairly sure you have no basis to declare as yet unmade discoveries “impossible”, though some hypotheses may see that way. If you lived a few hundred years ago, and this knew nothing about electromagnetism or quantum physics, and I described the ideas of “action at a distance”, you might be inclined to have expressed the view that it is impossible. And once the discoveries were made or the experiments performed, you’d be proven wrong.

While some are convinced that homosexuality is innate - that it is subject to biological influence, no-one is imposing new views on nature, just suggesting it may be frail in yet more ways than we currently know. Nature is not altered if it turns out there is a biological influence, we just make another discovery about what can go awry. Morality is not undermined if it turns out there is a biological influence. The meaning of marriage is not altered if it turns out there is a biological influence. Debate morality, debate the meaning of marriage, but debating the “cause” of homosexual inclination outside a scientific forum, and absent relevant scientific data, seems to be like attacking windmills absent a horse and lance!

 

[glendab]

Hello Shelby.

No, I wouldn’t brag knowing someone like you! There are just no words to describe you. I am fully proud to know these me and see how they teach, guide, help, support, each and everyone of our students on a daily basis with very little pay. 99% of our student love this school and we get twice as many applicants than we can take each year during admissions.

I don’t know what god you grew up with or how you learned about your faith, but I was born and raised Catholic and I have never been exposed to someone like you…Thank you God. I would bet that any of these men do ten time more to serve God in one day than you or I have in our entire live.

You said in another post that gays are in the vast minority so why don’t you go speak out on all the evil things that heterosexuals (the vast majority) are doing in the world. Wouldn’t that be a better way to serve God? Or do you just condemn gays?

Your insults are touching. I’ll choose to ignore them. The Church’s position on children and the very real threat to them that persons with homosexual tendencies is firm and should not be ignored nor dismissed. The Church is correct in it mission to make sure our children are protected. The fact that the place where you go for worship is totally ignoring the wise council of the USCCB is distressing and disturbing. The hiring and use of not just one gay male to teach children but FOUR is too obvious - the Pastor is dissenting from the Charter on the Protection of Children and is allowing children to be in danger. How would you feel if a few years from now, some young men come forward and reveal to the parish how and who destroyed their lives with sexual molestations and such? Would you still maintain your opinion of me and the Church’s position on the protection of children? Hindsight is 20/20, and in this case, there really is no excuse. Those children are at risk and since the Pastor feels it okay to harbor not just one gay man, but four, I can only think he is probably in dissent on other Church teachings. God bless you and all the poor people in that place who are being hurt.

Glenda

 

[teeboy]

If you oppose it from a civil standpoint, oppose it at the state level. It is legal at the Federal level; however, the Federal Government doesn’t issue marriage liscenses, so it is futile to fight it at the Federal level–this is what the Supreme Court’s lesson was to the Congress who wasted all our money and time trying to pass the Defense of Marriage Bill.

 

[shelby_sun]

Hello Shelby.

Your insults are touching. I’ll choose to ignore them. The Church’s position on children and the very real threat to them that persons with homosexual tendencies is firm and should not be ignored nor dismissed. The Church is correct in it mission to make sure our children are protected. The fact that the place where you go for worship is totally ignoring the wise council of the USCCB is distressing and disturbing. The hiring and use of not just one gay male to teach children but FOUR is too obvious - the Pastor is dissenting from the Charter on the Protection of Children and is allowing children to be in danger. How would you feel if a few years from now, some young men come forward and reveal to the parish how and who destroyed their lives with sexual molestations and such? Would you still maintain your opinion of me and the Church’s position on the protection of children? Hindsight is 20/20, and in this case, there really is no excuse. Those children are at risk and since the Pastor feels it okay to harbor not just one gay man, but four, I can only think he is probably in dissent on other Church teachings. God bless you and all the poor people in that place who are being hurt.

Glenda

I find it most uncharitable and unchristian, not no mention disgusting and discriminating that you assume all gay men abuse children. UNBELIEVABLE!!! One of these men has taught there for over 30 years and not one student has ever said a bad word about him and everyone on of the many coworkers he has had over the years would praise him for being a great teacher, a wonderful human being, and fantastic Catholic. The many priest he has worked with over the years would be the first to stand up and praise him. We work at a high school and the student can figure out own their own who is gay, no one mentions it.

My son goes to the school and will be a junior in the fall. I will have another son entering the falling fall. My two brother went there in the 70’s, my mother worked the in the 80’s, and I have worked there 20 years. NEVER has there been an student returning to tell of any inappropriate behavior of any of the teachers. Several priests have always lived right in the middle of the school, and no priest has ever been accused either. I find your word ignorant and offensive. Not every parish and Catholic school in the world had men who molested children. Maybe we should just shut all the Catholic church and schools down or just not let children attend them. Sounds about as dramatic has your thoughts. No God bless you , you really need it. You don’t seem to have God in your head or in your heart. I hope He finds a way to touch you very,very soon.

 

[LaLaLa49]

I find it most uncharitable and unchristian, not no mention disgusting and discriminating that you assume all gay men abuse children. UNBELIEVABLE!!! One of these men has taught there for over 30 years and not one student has ever said a bad word about him and everyone on of the many coworkers he has had over the years would praise him for being a great teacher, a wonderful human being, and fantastic Catholic. The many priest he has worked with over the years would be the first to stand up and praise him. We work at a high school and the student can figure out own their own who is gay, no one mentions it.

My son goes to the school and will be a junior in the fall. I will have another son entering the falling fall. My two brother went there in the 70’s, my mother worked the in the 80’s, and I have worked there 20 years. NEVER has there been an student returning to tell of any inappropriate behavior of any of the teachers. Several priests have always lived right in the middle of the school, and no priest has ever been accused either. I find your word ignorant and offensive. Not every parish and Catholic school in the world had men who molested children. Maybe we should just shut all the Catholic church and schools down or just not let children attend them. Sounds about as dramatic has your thoughts. No God bless you , you really need it. You don’t seem to have God in your head or in your heart. I hope He finds a way to touch you very,very soon.

Hello! Sorry for coming out of nowhere, but I agree with you . I have seen many people who think a person is evil (or so) just for being homosexual. It’s really sad :/. There are many, many people who seem to have this kind of view (atleast what I’ve seen around),all kind of people , and many who claim to be christian.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Hello! Sorry for coming out of nowhere, but I agree with you . I have seen many people who think a person is evil (or so) just for being homosexual. It’s really sad :/. There are many, many people who seem to have this kind of view (atleast what I’ve seen around),all kind of people , and many who claim to be christian.

The Roman Catholic Church does not consider homosexuals, in general, to be “evil”. The Church considers their actions to be DISORDERED.

I do not need an organized religion to tell me that homosexuality is disordered or unnatural.

Homosexual acts ARE EVIL. While there may be a few homosexuals who are able to fight their temptations or eventually return to a heterosexual lifestyle…the majority freely engage in deviant and dangerous sexual practices.

The Catholic Church has paid a price for covering up this EVIL.

 

[theCrow]

The Roman Catholic Church does not consider homosexuals, in general, to be “evil”. The Church considers their actions to be DISORDERED.

I do not need an organized religion to tell me that homosexuality is disordered or unnatural.

Homosexual acts ARE EVIL. While there may be a few homosexuals who are able to fight their temptations or eventually return to a heterosexual lifestyle…the majority freely engage in deviant and dangerous sexual practices.

The Catholic Church has paid a price for covering up this EVIL.

Actually, HOMOPHOBIA is EVIL. What if your son or daughter comes out as gay. Just because you believe their actions to be “evil and disordered”, you must respect and tolerate that many many MORE people DO NOT. Live and let live. Judge not lest you be judged yourself.

God is Love and 2 gay people who love each other in a committed married relationship are blessed by God just as any other 2 people who love are.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Actually, HOMOPHOBIA is EVIL. What if your son or daughter comes out as gay. Just because you believe their actions to be “evil and disordered”, you must respect and tolerate that many many MORE people DO NOT. Live and let live. Judge not lest you be judged yourself.

God is Love and 2 gay people who love each other in a committed married relationship are blessed by God just as any other 2 people who love are.

Do not insinuate that my children could have possibly “come out as gay”. That is impossible because they were taught right from wrong.

Do not be to sure of the “many many MORE people” who do not believe homosexual actions are evil. There are fewer admitted homosexuals in the U.S. than there are Methodists. The majority of ALL Christians are not as tolerant as you like to think.

When quoting scripture always use the complete quote:

Judge not, that you be not judged…

…For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, “Let me take the speck out of your eye,” when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. (Matt. 7:1-5)

There can be no doubt that those final words—“take the speck out of your brother’s eye”—are, indeed, permission to judge so long as it is done rightly.

**Go and tell him his fault**, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. (Matt. 18:15-17)

It is not possible to follow Jesus’ instructions without being “judgmental” of another’s behavior.

I just cannot relate “love” to a homosexual relationship. Tell me what’s loving about sex acts that cause bleeding, choking, disease, and pain? It seems to me that there is nothing loving about mutual self-destruction.