Is Jeffrey Dahmer in Heaven?

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jmcrae said:
With regard to not going to Heaven, there is no difference between not repenting of lying to your mother, and not repenting of murdering hundreds of people and then eating their bodies.

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as far as repentance goes, that may be true…

as far as EXPIATION goes, it is NOT true…

the murderer will be in Purg much, much longer than the one who tried to live a good Christian life… and he will suffer far more excrutiatingly while there…

How do i know this? Well, from Catholic books i have read but it also just makes logical sense…

sin makes us impure… The worse the sin, the worse the impuirty and no impur thing will enter heaven…

Heaven is where everything is perfect… there is no sin and there is no desire for sin… imagine being purified of not only our sins… but the very desire for sin…

that makes it easier to believe in the terrible pains of Purgatory… and also its necessity…

the longer we live in this world the more messed up our souls become…

i have no trouble believing what Jesus said that not many people make it to heaven… (the narrow road to Heaven)… I’ve seen so much evil, it makes my head spin… experience… reading history…

:hypno:
 
distracted said:
as far as repentance goes, that may be true…

as far as EXPIATION goes, it is NOT true…

the murderer will be in Purg much, much longer than the one who tried to live a good Christian life… and he will suffer far more excrutiatingly while there…
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Right, but once you make it to Purgatory, you just have to wait it out - you are guaranteed that you will go to Heaven. 🙂
the longer we live in this world the more messed up our souls become…
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True fact, that. Although it seems to me that we sin more flamboyantly when we are young - sex, theft, risk-taking, etc. When we get older, even our sins are boring, though no less deadly.
i have no trouble believing what Jesus said that not many people make it to heaven… (the narrow road to Heaven)… I’ve seen so much evil, it makes my head spin… experience… reading history…
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It is only by God’s gracious mercy that even those few manage to make it.
 
This is perhaps the weirdest thread I’ve ever seen in CAF? Trying to guess if Jeffrey Dahmer is in heaven? Why don’t we speculate about Stalin, Edi Amin, the Night Stalker, and Calligula while we’re at it? What’s the point?:confused::confused::confused:
 
AJTheMan said:
Dahmer did wrong doing in his life, though. Why would he deserve a heaven state?
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Wrong question from a Christian perspective. Catholics do speak of “meriting eternal life” but *only *in the sense that the Holy Spirit works in a person and this work of the Holy Spirit is worthy of eternal life and makes the person the kind of being who can share in eternal life. (Catholics, correct me if I have summarized your Church’s teaching incorrectly here!) Protestants are unwilling to use even this language, for the most part. Eternal life is a gift of God’s grace, offered to us as sinners who do not deserve it.

Edwin
 
Cathdefender said:
I personally believe that Mother Teresa and Dahmer ARE NOT in the same place. I believe Dahmer is in hell with the other killers (Thou shalt not kill). But…I am not God.
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St. Paul was a killer before his conversion
never underestimate God’s love and forgiveness
as Jesus showed us with the repentant criminal on the cross, that if you trully regret your sins and are sincere in your repentance that you can be forgiven even at the last moment of your life
 
The site this is linked to in the original post is run by the church of Christ denomination. My husband was raised in this church and he insists that it is a cult. We know of many ex-members who heard from the pulpit on Sunday morning that Jeffrey Dahmer was in heaven and Mother Theresa was in hell. Jeffrey Dahmer was born and raised church of Christ and reaffirmed his faith before his death.
 
Syele said:
Forgive my punctuation. I was under the impression that the Orthodox Church was Catholic. I wasn’t trying to say the “Orthodox Rite” never heard of such a thing.

And if I want to distinguish between the Roman rite and the Eastern rite I will still say “Roman Catholic” Cause you are one! Just the same as Id Rather be called “Christian” than protestant. Heck Id rather be called “Bible-Thumper” than Protestant, but I don’t throw a fit on these forums cause I AM a protestant. Just like you ARE a Roman Catholic.
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Wrong, a Catholic.
 
LutheranDK said:
If you had bothered to read the rest of my post, you would have seen the answer.
But once more:

Christendom did not get the Bible from the Roman-Catholic church, because the Roman-Catholic church did not exist when the Bible was put together.
The RCC evolved gradually after Constantine’s legalization and favorism of Christianity - and after the influx of pagans.
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Wrong.
 
jmcrae said:
Right, but once you make it to Purgatory, you just have to wait it out - you are guaranteed that you will go to Heaven. 🙂

True fact, that. Although it seems to me that we sin more flamboyantly when we are young - sex, theft, risk-taking, etc. When we get older, even our sins are boring, though no less deadly.

It is only by God’s gracious mercy that even those few manage to make it.
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i agree with everything you say… except that my sins are n’t really all that “boring” … In fact, the “more Catholic i become…” as it were… as time goes by… the closer i try to get to Jesus… the more “interesting” things get… I don’t do those “flamboyant” sins you speak of… 😃 anymore… but when the devil can’t attack you in one area anymore, he attacks in another… so it gets pretty “interesting”… maddening as h-- :mad: but interesting…

there was something else i was going to comment on but i may have erased it!!
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
This is perhaps the weirdest thread I’ve ever seen in CAF? Trying to guess if Jeffrey Dahmer is in heaven? Why don’t we speculate about Stalin, Edi Amin, the Night Stalker, and Calligula while we’re at it? What’s the point?:confused::confused::confused:
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the point is (one point anyhow) we need to focus on Purgatory and spread the news that it exists…

because those protestants can get pretty discombobulated trying to figure out such things… as where some “monster” may end up at death…

i mean, its like:

***Jesus forgives but COME ON!! Jeffrey Dahmer!!!

well, there goes my faith out the window… *** (is what some may think).

Purgatory answers this quandary…

and i would believe in Purg even if not Catholic… It makes more sense than just about any dogma or doctrine you can think of…

because few people are holy enough for Heaven when they die and many are not so unrepentantly evil that they deserve eternal Hell…
 
MercyMia said:
The site this is linked to in the original post is run by the church of Christ denomination. My husband was raised in this church and he insists that it is a cult. We know of many ex-members who heard from the pulpit on Sunday morning that Jeffrey Dahmer was in heaven and Mother Theresa was in hell. Jeffrey Dahmer was born and raised church of Christ and reaffirmed his faith before his death.
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We know of many ex-members who heard from the pulpit on Sunday morning that Jeffrey Dahmer was in heaven and Mother Theresa was in hell

Lord, have mercy…:eek:

just goes to show how loopy religion can make a person… false religion, of course… :rolleyes:
 
distracted said:
the point is (one point anyhow) we need to focus on Purgatory and spread the news that it exists…

because those protestants can get pretty discombobulated trying to figure out such things… as where some “monster” may end up at death…

i mean, its like:

***Jesus forgives but COME ON!! Jeffrey Dahmer!!!

well, there goes my faith out the window… *** (is what some may think).

Purgatory answers this quandary…

and i would believe in Purg even if not Catholic… It makes more sense than just about any dogma or doctrine you can think of…

because few people are holy enough for Heaven when they die and many are not so unrepentantly evil that they deserve eternal Hell…
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I’m just not sure it’s too healthy pondering the whereabouts of killers in the afterlife. I try not to focus on condemnation of others in the hereafter, just try to hope they find salvation. If we get hung up on this we get a sense of superiority because we’re Catholics and we step into legalism and an elitist mentality. And I’m not sure purgatory is the word that I need to get out. Accepting Christ, living the life He wants us to live, forgiving one another, and faith is my core right now…not purgation.
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
This is perhaps the weirdest thread I’ve ever seen in CAF? Trying to guess if Jeffrey Dahmer is in heaven? Why don’t we speculate about Stalin, Edi Amin, the Night Stalker, and Calligula while we’re at it? What’s the point?:confused::confused::confused:
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Well, as far as I know, there aren’t any rumors going around that those guys had death-bed conversions. 😉
 
Jimmy_B said:
Is Jeffrey Dahmer in Heaven?

Here is an article that claims that Jeffrey Dahmer, the admitted homosexual, who abducted, raped, tortured, murdered and cannibalized many young innocent victims, became a “born-again” Christian while in prison…

Does this mean that “born again” and other Protestant Christians believe that Jeffrey Dahmer is in heaven?

Are his victims in heaven with him?

Is it possible that some of his victims are not in heaven and he is?

Do you agree with this Martin Luther quote? -

“No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day.”
“Let Your Sins Be Strong: A Letter from Luther to Melanchthon”.– c.1521)

I believe that we are judged by our “works”, good and bad. I also believe that a virtuous life does have merit. I do not believe that there exists an automatic “Get out of Hell” card.

I believe in God’s infinite mercy and I believe that anything is possible in God; however, I also believe that bad people go to Hell. Jeffrey Dahmer is a bad person so doesn’t that mean that he is in Hell?

Additionally, I have read that Jeffrey Dahmer was involved in the Occult, or satanic worship, wouldn’t this behavior, fall under, “blasphemy against the Holy Spirit”, the un-forgivable sin?

I do not believe that Jeffery Dahmer is in heaven, what do you think?
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A few points:​

  • not being privy to God’s working in the hearts of others
  • not being privy to Dahmer’s state before death
  • having no need to be privy to Dahmer’s state before death
  • having more than enough of one’s own sins to answer for
  • having only a very defective knowledge of one’s own heart, let alone of that of someone one didn’t even know
  • granted the complexity of these issues
  • it really is none of one’s business what his standing before God may be. And I respectfully suggest that it is no one else’s, either. AFAIK, curiosity about the state of the dead is sinful, because there is no way of knowing (the Saints are the exception to this). Curiosity about certain subjects is not good or innocent, but harmful. It’s the intellectual equivalent of promiscuity or gluttony - all are failures to use our God-given appetites in a restrained way 😦
Being murdered does not confer innocence - being a murderer does not guarantee final impenitence. Again, God knows - man does not. BTW, I definitely believe in the possibility of damnation. As to who is damned: isn’t it enough to know that the self one does have some access to is capable of great evil 😦 ?

Maybe a reading of “The Great Divide” by C. S. Lewis is the answer to your question: among the Solid People he sees in Heaven are a murderer & his former victim.

As to the quotation from Luther, if the Bible & the Saints can use hyperbole - so can Luther.
St. Ignatius Loyola, Rules for Thinking with the Church, no.13:
Thirteenth Rule. To be right in everything, we ought always to hold that the white which I see, is black, if the Hierarchical Church so decides it, believing that between Christ our Lord, the Bridegroom, and the Church, His Bride, there is the same Spirit which governs and directs us for the salvation of our souls. Because by the same Spirit and our Lord Who gave the ten Commandments, our holy Mother the Church is directed and governed.

Both quotations, from Luther and from St. Ignatius, can be read in a bad sense - or in a good sense. It would be very easy to make out that St. Ignatius was patronising the sin of falsehood - less easy to find a Catholic to admit the accusation; surely rightly.
Exactly the same defence can be made for Luther: if the one is not patronising wickedness, despite his words; then why accuse the other ? If OTOH it is fair to condemn Luther and not St. Ignatius - why is this ? (Whether the type of ethics which seems to underlie the Thirteenth Rule is sound metaphysically, is another matter.)

As for merit: I don’t believe in it; unless it is the Infinite Merit of Christ the Saviour; for no other exists, or can exist. (Unless there is another salvation going on somewhere…)
 
I know this thread is over a year old, but, let’s hope and pray he will be in Heaven enjoying the glory of God. Hell is horrible. IF he truly repented, then he deserves Heaven.

We don’t know how much of this is his responsibility and how much demons were afflicting him to have such disordered tendencies.
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
I’m just not sure it’s too healthy pondering the whereabouts of killers in the afterlife. I try not to focus on condemnation of others in the hereafter, just try to hope they find salvation. If we get hung up on this we get a sense of superiority because we’re Catholics and we step into legalism and an elitist mentality. And I’m not sure purgatory is the word that I need to get out. Accepting Christ, living the life

He wants us to live, forgiving one another, and faith is my core right now…not purgation.
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what do you mean? That IS purgation… doing what Jesus says… it is purgation in this life as well as the next… If we are not done working out our salvation w/ fear & trembling (Phil 2:12) in this life, when we die we go to Purg… and most of us go there b4 heaven and it is a painful place to be… and that is why i try to warn people of it…

it is much better to do you Purg atory HERE rather than later… far less painful…

i have heard the saints say this but it also just makes logical sense…

every sin we commit does awful things to our soul, things we do not always SEE… Others may see it far quicker than we do… :eek:

i don’t know why Purgatory wasn’t one of the options in the poll… :confused:
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:
  • it really is none of one’s business what his standing before God may …)
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it is our business because if people are taught that these kinds of people (murderers) can just skate into heaven with no purgation whatsoever… just a “sorry, God!”… people will commit terrible sins and then just say, “Sorry, God…” and go about their buisness… thinking they will get to heaven because they said Sorry… no penance… etc…

how would you like to be the victim of one of those who belives this way??

do you think God would let some maniac do terrible things to you… and then just let Him into Heaven… while you are on Earth suffering the consequences of this pervert’s actions?? That is NOT justice…

People forget that God is love AND justice… perfect justice… perfect holiness…

threads like this remind us of that…

That OSAS thing is doing a LOT of harm in the world…

that’s why we have abortion and other heinous things… people thinking thye can play God… and do whatever they want and still get to heaven… without any atonement…
 
Contarini said:
Jimmy,

I find your imperviousness to serious theological discussion rather frustrating…

Edwin
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http://chadholtz.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/hell_070706_ms.jpg

Catechism of the Catholic Church

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

Luke 12:5

**5 **I shall show you whom to fear. Be afraid of the one who after killing has the power to cast into Gehenna; yes, I tell you, be afraid of that one.

2 Peter 2:4,5,9

4 For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but condemned them to the chains of Tartarus and handed them over to be kept for judgment;
5 and if he did not spare the ancient world, even though he preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, together with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the godless world;
9then the Lord knows how to rescue the devout from trial and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,
**10 **and especially those who follow the flesh with its depraved desire and show contempt for lordship. Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to revile glorious beings,

Mark 9:42,43,45,47-48

42"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe (in me) to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were put around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.
43If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed than with two hands to go into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire.
**45 **And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life crippled than with two feet to be thrown into Gehenna.
**47 **And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. Better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into Gehenna,
48where ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’

Isaiah 66:24

24They shall go out and see the corpses of the men who rebelled against me; Their worm shall not die, nor their fire be extinguished; and they shall be abhorrent to all mankind.

Matthew 8:11-12

11I say to you, many will come from the east and the west, and will recline with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob at the banquet in the kingdom of heaven,
12but the children of the kingdom will be driven out into the outer darkness, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth."

Daniel 12:2

**2 **Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake; some shall live forever, others shall be an everlasting horror and disgrace.

Luke 16:24-26

24 And he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.’
25Abraham replied, ‘My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here, whereas you are tormented.
26Moreover, between us and you a great chasm is established to prevent anyone from crossing who might wish to go from our side to yours or from your side to ours.’
 
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