Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

[1beleevr]

Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

Your thoughts?

Jesus said,“I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father, but through me.” So, yes, Jesus is the way to salvation. Not necessarily the rcc!

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

But didn’t Jesus establish a visible, tangiable, real Church that had apostolic leadership, bishops, priests, deacons, councils, continuity, coherence and wasn’t it Catholicism that canonized the Bible that you’re using in your non-denom church? Didn’t The Church define the Trinity, the nature of all the Christology you use today, and hasn’t the Church been the conduit for everything Christ taught and is?

Jesus said,“I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father, but through me.” So, yes, Jesus is the way to salvation. Not necessarily the rcc!

 

[Cranmer2010]

But didn’t Jesus establish a visible, tangiable, real Church that had apostolic leadership, bishops, priests, deacons, councils, continuity, coherence and wasn’t it Catholicism that canonized the Bible that you’re using in your non-denom church? Didn’t The Church define the Trinity, the nature of all the Christology you use today, and hasn’t the Church been the conduit for everything Christ taught and is?

I believe what you are saying is very true devoid the centuries between the Early Christian Church that Christ established with the Apostles and the middle ages of abuse, heresey and the blurring of the Church’s primary focus which led to the Reformation. IMHO there is alot Right and alot Wrong post Reformation and much depends on which church you look at.

 

[1beleevr]

But didn’t Jesus establish a visible, tangiable, real Church that had apostolic leadership, bishops, priests, deacons, councils, continuity, coherence and wasn’t it Catholicism that canonized the Bible that you’re using in your non-denom church? Didn’t The Church define the Trinity, the nature of all the Christology you use today, and hasn’t the Church been the conduit for everything Christ taught and is?

I guess what I’m trying to say, is that one can get saved without the catholic church; it has been happening for centuries!:thumbsup:The Ethiopian eunuch was not in church when he met Christ, and countless others who came to believe before the church was established! Do you think Nicodemus was a convert from Judaism?

 

[Moro_Rock]

Jesus said,“I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man comes to the Father, but through me.” So, yes, Jesus is the way to salvation. Not necessarily the rcc!

What many Christians call " getting saved" is frequently a campsite experience round the fire on the final evening of a revival mission when some teenagers or older folk have an emotional experience of their sinfulness and the mercy of God.
But its more than such an one-off event . Its meant to be the beginning of the rest of your life !
2000 years ago Jesus left nothing to chance . His three years of public life were a careful preparation to set up His Church [Kingdom] which was given the responsibility for the Pastoral Care and Salvation of His followers when He was no longer physically on the earth.
Knowing that Peter would deny Him soon Jesus clearly said " Thou art Peter Rock] and upon this Rock I will build my Church. The gates of Hell will not prevail…binding and loosing etc… The Lord had no illusions about the fall of Peter the Rock Another time He said to him " I have prayed that thy faith may not fail and do thou , when thou has turned again strengthen thy brethern."
As Jesus was aware of the fall of Peter and the betrayal of Judas He also could foresee even the recent clerical scandals . With all that in mind He considered it essential to establish ONE CHURCH.
In John Ch. 17 He prayed to His Father ‘that they may all be ONE .
He did not guarantee His Church immunity from weakness or sin or scandal but, according to His prayer for Peter ’ I have prayed that thy faith may not fail’ . Its a safe bet to say that the Catholic Church is guaranteed to teach and to safeguard the true 'Deposit of Faith ’
:twocents::bible1:

 

[Todd520]

I thought the Church was established to teach and evangelize Christ’s message.

Instead people often see it as handing out “I’ve been saved” union cards, where getting the wrong denomination/color card means you miss the boat.

 

[1beleevr]

What many Christians call " getting saved" is frequently a campsite experience round the fire on the final evening of a revival mission when some teenagers or older folk have an emotional experience of their sinfulness and the mercy of God.
But its more than such an one-off event . Its meant to be the beginning of the rest of your life !
2000 years ago Jesus left nothing to chance . His three years of public life were a careful preparation to set up His Church [Kingdom] which was given the responsibility for the Pastoral Care and Salvation of His followers when He was no longer physically on the earth.
Knowing that Peter would deny Him soon Jesus clearly said " Thou art Peter Rock] and upon this Rock I will build my Church. The gates of Hell will not prevail…binding and loosing etc… The Lord had no illusions about the fall of Peter the Rock Another time He said to him " I have prayed that thy faith may not fail and do thou , when thou has turned again strengthen thy brethern."
As Jesus was aware of the fall of Peter and the betrayal of Judas He also could foresee even the recent clerical scandals . With all that in mind He considered it essential to establish ONE CHURCH.
In John Ch. 17 He prayed to His Father ‘that they may all be ONE .
He did not guarantee His Church immunity from weakness or sin or scandal but, according to His prayer for Peter ’ I have prayed that thy faith may not fail’ . Its a safe bet to say that the Catholic Church is guaranteed to teach and to safeguard the true 'Deposit of Faith ’
:twocents::bible1:

This all sounds good, but there are countless Christians, who believe that Christ’s church is the sum of all who are in Him! To be exclusive(which many churches are) is to violate His prayer for unity! To say, if you are not this or that, no matter how much you believe, serve, or what kind of faith you have, you’re not going to Heaven! And guess what, when Jesus said, strengten thy brethren, His message was meant for us too; to strengthen each other, to edify, not divide the body! In other words, the catholic church is not the only way to Heaven!

 

[Jimmy_B]

This all sounds good, but there are countless Christians, who believe that Christ’s church is the sum of all who are in Him! To be exclusive(which many churches are) is to violate His prayer for unity! To say, if you are not this or that, no matter how much you believe, serve, or what kind of faith you have, you’re not going to Heaven! And guess what, when Jesus said, strengten thy brethren, His message was meant for us too; to strengthen each other, to edify, not divide the body! In other words, the catholic church is not the only way to Heaven!

What is your definition of unity?

 

[1beleevr]

What is your definition of unity?

It does not mean that all believers are members of the same religion or denomination! What unity is, is ALL believers, joined together in ONE faith, working for the Kingdom, instead of squabbling about differences in doctrinal issues! It’s putting aside petty human idiosynchrisies, and focusing on the Gospel, and rescuing the lost! One does not have to be catholic, Baptist, Methodist, etc., to be in tune with the Holy Spirit! Just read the posts throughout this forum, and you will see many examples of division among the Body(of which all of us who are in Christ are part of), sad, very sad!

 

[Jimmy_B]

It does not mean that all believers are members of the same religion or denomination! What unity is, is ALL believers, joined together in ONE faith, working for the Kingdom, instead of squabbling about differences in doctrinal issues! It’s putting aside petty human idiosynchrisies, and focusing on the Gospel, and rescuing the lost! One does not have to be catholic, Baptist, Methodist, etc., to be in tune with the Holy Spirit! Just read the posts throughout this forum, and you will see many examples of division among the Body(of which all of us who are in Christ are part of), sad, very sad!

Hello 1beleevr,

Thank you for your post. You seem to have more of an esoteric view of religion, rather than a realistic view… Am I wrong? Remember, there are over one billion Catholics worldwide who belong to a religion that is over two thousand years old who may disagree with you.

If there are differences and I mean significant differences in the areas of faith and morals, then there does not exist true unity… right?

You make a good point regarding “focusing on the Gospel” and I’m guessing that your referring to the entire Bible here and not just the Gospels, however, the problem that exists is how the Bible is interpreted and whether or not it’s understood in context.

So, it isn’t simply “squabbling” or a case where groups have different “idiosyncrasies”, it’s all about substance and context. For example… What constitutes a sin? What is the definition of “sin”? Sin is biblically based, is it not? Therefore, if one denomination teaches that XY and Z are not sins and it turns out that they are, then we have a problem, do we not?

Every denomination has a specific rule set and have their own interpretations and the problem is that there can only exist one truth, not thirty-six thousand different versions of that truth.

Your thoughts?

 

[davec66]

Jesus spoke volumes on the way to salvation. Nowhere does The Lord say only a particular church is the way to Him. “I am The Way, The Truth and The Light. No one can come to The Father except thru Me” All believers who put their trust, their lives into The Lords Hands have salvation. This also means to live a holy lifestyle, to serve as He served to bear good fruit, to love as He loved, to repent and confess when sin occurs.If ones lifestyle denies the reality of Christs teachings, then unless repentance occurs, one cannot in all conscience call themselves a christian. This belief that the only way is through the Catholic Church doesnt make sense nor does it sound like what Jesus would have said. He died on The Cross and shed His blood so all could be saved,. The amount of fear that people have because of this particular teaching of the Catholic Church is huge and unnecessary. Fear is not a good way to bring people to believe in a particular Churches viewpoint. It is better we fear The Living God. Salvation is thru Jesus, Gods Son, not a set of beliefs, nomatter how valid they might be, nor a particular dogma. of a particular church. I do not disrespect others viewpoints but I feel that this needs to be said loud and often, so all who are on this site forwhatever reason can be reassured what and how salvation is given. . To seek.

Well said.

 

[Holly3278]

Yes, yes, and yes! It is clearly taught that there is no salvation outside the Church and our Savior, Jesus.

“Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And when I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. And you know the way where I am going.” Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going; how can we know the way?” Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; henceforth you know him and have seen him.” Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied.” Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me; or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves. "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father.
(John 14:1-12 RSV)

**“Outside the Church there is no salvation” **

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

335 Cf. Cyprian, Ep. 73.21L 3,1169; De unit.L 4,509-536.
336 LG 14; cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5.
337 LG 16; cf. DS 3866-3872.
338 AG 7; cf. Heb 11:6; 1 Cor 9:16.

catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp

 

[davec66]

I believe there is absolutely no salvation outside the apostolic Roman Catholic Church, period. No long-winded, convoluted dissertations on how “Outside the Church there is no salvation” really means “Outside the church there is salvation”; no twisting of the dogma into a meaningless formula with inadequate explanations like “EENS just means all salvation is through Christ & the Church but one does not have to be a ‘card-carrying’ Catholic to be saved”. I believe the dogma the way the popes defined it, and that leads me to believe in order to be saved one must be a full-fledged, baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church and firmly adhere to all of her beliefs to be saved.

I’m sorry but, I have to disagree. I feel very few Catholics will make it to heaven. It is not that they are not good people who want to follow God. It is because the leaders of the Church have mislead the people on purpose for power and money. I promised myself I would be kind to the people here so, I do this out of love so you too are not lost.

Show me in the Bible where the the Papacy is and don’t give me this Peter was the first Pope. Peter was never in Rome. The archeological evidence shows he is buried in Jerusalem. At the mount of Olives. Peter was the Apostle to the Jews not the gentiles. All the apostles were given the keys to the kingdom on the day of Pentecost not just Peter.

Read Paul’s letter to Rome. He never mentions Peter. Paul gives greetings to a lot of other people. Why not peter? By the time Paul wrote the letter Peter should have been there for several years. Paul is surprised at the church of Rome’s lack of knowledge. How could that be if the Pope himself was teaching them?

The Pope is infallible yet, Paul scolded Peter and told him he was wrong for having believers adapt Jewish customs first before becoming a Christian.

The Catholic Church we see today was started in the 4th Century When Constantine became emperor.

Read To Seek’s response. He has it right.

 

[1beleevr]

Yes, yes, and yes! It is clearly taught that there is no salvation outside the Church and our Savior, Jesus.

“Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And when I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. And you know the way where I am going.” Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going; how can we know the way?” Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; henceforth you know him and have seen him.” Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied.” Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me; or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves. "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father.
(John 14:1-12 RSV)

catholic.com/library/Salvation_Outside_the_Church.asp

Actually, this is an incorrect view, besides being biased and exclusive! Salvation is happening all over the world, not just in the caholic church! In China, hundreds of thousands are coming to know Christ through fervent evangelism!

 

[1beleevr]

Hello 1beleevr,

Thank you for your post. You seem to have more of an esoteric view of religion, rather than a realistic view… Am I wrong? Remember, there are over one billion Catholics worldwide who belong to a religion that is over two thousand years old who may disagree with you.

If there are differences and I mean significant differences in the areas of faith and morals, then there does not exist true unity… right?

You make a good point regarding “focusing on the Gospel” and I’m guessing that your referring to the entire Bible here and not just the Gospels, however, the problem that exists is how the Bible is interpreted and whether or not it’s understood in context.

So, it isn’t simply “squabbling” or a case where groups have different “idiosyncrasies”, it’s all about substance and context. For example… What constitutes a sin? What is the definition of “sin”? Sin is biblically based, is it not? Therefore, if one denomination teaches that XY and Z are not sins and it turns out that they are, then we have a problem, do we not?

Every denomination has a specific rule set and have their own interpretations and the problem is that there can only exist one truth, not thirty-six thousand different versions of that truth.

Your thoughts?

Yes, Jimmy B, you are wrong! One of themajor problems I see in religion today, is people hung up on being catholic, or Baptist or Mormon, Methodist, you name it! We should be as passionate about spreading the Gospel of jesus Christ, who will meet you wherever you are; not just in church(hard to believe, huh?) How about the Ethiopian eunuch? He met Christ in the wilderness, and God used Phillip to lead him to salvation:thumbsup: Legalism is threatening to choke the life out of most religions, with some preaching that one is judged by works as well as faith("you’ll never be good enough!) And perhaps rules are part of the problem; catholics have their own unique rules I am sure! True unity will happen when Christ comes to claim His Bride(all of us Christians, who are in Him)

 

[Jimmy_B]

…Peter was never in Rome… …

“Peter was never in Rome.”

And you would know this how?

“It is an indisputably established historical fact that St. Peter laboured in Rome during the last portion of his life, and there ended his earthly course by martyrdom.”

Here.

In the Sermon by Pope Leo the Great (440–461), it states “*On the dispersing of the Twelve, St. Peter was sent to Rome” and “St. Peter’s love conquered his fears in coming to Rome.” *

A Catholic Church, the largest Catholic Church… The largest Church in the world… was built over the body of St. Peter, in Rome, Saint Peter’s Basilica. His bones are still there.

St. Peter’s Basilica - A Brief History

Where St. Peter’s now stands was once a chariot racing stadium, built in the time of the Emperor Caligula, Claudius and Nero (40-65). That was the first century of our era. Nero was the Emperor who began the first great persecution of Christians in Rome. Under his rule of terror, many Christians were imprisoned and put to death here in the newly completed stadium (“Circus” in Latin).

Among those first Christians to be rounded up by Nero’s soldiers was the leader of the Christian community in Rome, St. Peter the Apostle. He had probably come to Rome about the year 40 and was therefore about 25 years in the city preaching the Good News and obviously making many converts to Christianity - to many for Nero’s liking.
Many of these Christians were thrown to the wild animals as part of the entertainment in the stadium. Many, however, were crucified. A low wall divided the arena of the stadium so that the chariot races took place around them. Some, we are told by Tacitus, the chronicler of the Roman Empire, had oil and tar poured over their bodies and they were set alight to illuminate the stadium in the late Summer evenings.
The stadium, about six hundred yards long, stretched from about the end of the Western wing of the Colonnade to well beyond the apse of the present basilica. St. Peter’s place of crucifixion is traditionally marked as corresponding to the left hand wing of the basilica, more or less where the altar of St. Joseph is today.
Peter’s Tomb

Afterwards, some of his friends took Pete’s body and buried it in the nearest cemetery. That was just outside and to the right of the stadium. The tomb of Peter is still there, underneath the front of the Papal Altar and about 20 ft. below the floor level of the basilica…

Here

There is also a Church built over the spot where St. Peter had a vision of Christ and then returned to Rome.

The Chiesa di Santa Maria in Palmis, better known as Chiesa del Domine Quo Vadis (literally, the church of “Lord, Where Are You Going?”) is a small church on the Appian Way in Rome.

The Chiesa del Domine Quo Vadis is located on the spot where tradition says Saint Peter had a vision of the risen Christ while fleeing persecution in Rome. According to the tradition, Peter asked Jesus:

Domine, quo vadis? - Lord, where are you going?

And Jesus answered:
Eo Romam iterum crucifigi - I go to Rome to be crucified anew.

…The presence of the Apostle Peter in this area, where he is supposed to have lived, should however find a confirmation in an epigraph in the catacombs of Saint Sebastian, that recites “Domus Petri” (house of Peter) and in an epigram by Pope Damasus I (366-384), in honor of Peter and Paul, in which we can read: “You that are looking for the names of Peter and Paul, You must know that the saints have lived here”.

This is what happens whenever someone rejects Christian history…They come to baseless conclusions.

 

[Jimmy_B]

Yes, Jimmy B, you are wrong! One of themajor problems I see in religion today, is people hung up on being catholic, or Baptist or Mormon, Methodist, you name it! We should be as passionate about spreading the Gospel of jesus Christ, who will meet you wherever you are; not just in church(hard to believe, huh?) How about the Ethiopian eunuch? He met Christ in the wilderness, and God used Phillip to lead him to salvation:thumbsup: Legalism is threatening to choke the life out of most religions, with some preaching that one is judged by works as well as faith("you’ll never be good enough!) And perhaps rules are part of the problem; catholics have their own unique rules I am sure! True unity will happen when Christ comes to claim His Bride(all of us Christians, who are in Him)

This is what cracks me up about some non-Catholic Christians, who apparently don’t know much about Catholicism. What makes you think that I believe that Jesus can only be found in a Church? Go to a Catholic Mass, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church and read some of the early works of the Saints and Doctors of the Church before you come to some crazy conclusion about Catholics, where you think that you are the only one in Christian history who “figured it out”.

Let’s start with the Bible, which is a Catholic Book, approved by the Catholic Church and Catholic Popes. Do you dispute this fact? If not for the Catholic Church, you would not know about Jesus and we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

One cannot connect the Christian dots without first connecting the Catholic dots…

Your thoughts?

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

Yes, Jimmy B, you are wrong! **One of themajor problems I see in religion today, is people hung up on being catholic, or Baptist or Mormon, Methodist, you name it! **

The contrary is true, when you start to ignore what “Roman Catholic” means, and ignore reason and the effects of Protestant seperation you will end up with Religious Relativism. The Roman Catholic Church contains the four marks of the church (One Holy Catholic and Apostolic) and it maintains it teaches all the Truths that are revealed thus far. All other denominations are in contentions of some or most of the truths taught by RCC, but they are not totally seperate; denominations that have a Trinitarian Baptism (hard to believe) are still part of the Church though they are not fully united in matters of faith.

We should be as passionate about spreading the Gospel of jesus Christ, who will meet you wherever you are; not just in church (hard to believe, huh?)

If you don’t find yourself encountering Jesus in Church once a week then your not actaully following the Gospel - or the Ten Commandments either (hard to believe, huh?)

 

[Jimmy_B]

The contrary is true, when you start to ignore what “Roman Catholic” means, and ignore reason and the effects of Protestant seperation you will end up with Religious Relativism. The Roman Catholic Church contains the four marks of the church (One Holy Catholic and Apostolic) and it maintains it teaches all the Truths that are revealed thus far. All other denominations are in contentions of some or most of the truths taught by RCC, but they are not totally seperate; denominations that have a Trinitarian Baptism (hard to believe) are still part of the Church though they are not fully united in matters of faith.

If you don’t find yourself encountering Jesus in Church once a week then your not actaully following the Gospel - or the Ten Commandments either (hard to believe, huh?)

Excellent post!

 

[davec66]

“Peter was never in Rome.”

And you would know this how?

Historical evidence not, Catholic tradition.

Read the Article

Peter’s Tomb
Recently Discovered In Jerusalem
by F. PAUL PETERSON

In the article even the priests admit to the author that Peter is buried in Jerusalem. Not in Rome

“when I had gathered all the facts in the case, the priests could not deny the discovery of the tomb, but even confirmed it, though reluctantly. In fact, I have the statement from a Spanish priest on the Mount of Olives on a tape recorder, to that effect.”

Read it here. It is too long to copy and Paste. Here is the link.

hol.com/~mikesch/peters-jerusalem-tomb.htm

In the Sermon by Pope Leo the Great (440–461), it states “*On the dispersing of the Twelve, St. Peter was sent to Rome” and “St. Peter’s love conquered his fears in coming to Rome.” *

When are we going to stop believing the politicians

A Catholic Church, the largest Catholic Church… The largest Church in the world… was built over the body of St. Peter, in Rome, Saint Peter’s Basilica. His bones are still there.

Fact is it is built over a pagan cemetery and his bones aren’t there

There is also a Church built over the spot where St. Peter had a vision of Christ and then returned to Rome.

So, there are a lot of holy places based on tradition, not historical fact. Look at the Mosque on the temple mount. Did Mohamed ascend to heaven there? Is that a fact too?

[/INDENT]This is what happens whenever someone rejects Christian history…They come to baseless conclusions.

No, This is what happens when you get your history from the ones who need history written a certain way to justify their existence and not from independent research for the truth. You can ignore the facts if you want.

Again, go here for the whole story hol.com/~mikesch/peters-jerusalem-tomb.htm