Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

[guanophore]

Every denomination has a specific rule set and have their own interpretations and the problem is that there can only exist one truth, not thirty-six thousand different versions of that truth.

Your thoughts?

Obviously there can exist many other “truths”. About as many as there are belly buttons, it seems.

 

[AnneElliot]

This all sounds good, but there are countless Christians, who believe that Christ’s church is the sum of all who are in Him!

But that doesn’t make it true. Truth is not determined by a majority rule.

If Christ’s Church is merely the sum of all who in in Him, to whom should I go when I need to take something to the Church? I can’t bring an issue to EVERYONE, especially since I don’t know all who are in Him.
Matthew 18:17-18 “And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.”

To be exclusive(which many churches are) is to violate His prayer for unity!

How so? Anyone is free to join the Catholic Church. We welcome you with open arms. Anyone can find salvation, if they become Catholic. We must be united in Faith and in Truth.

To be ‘unexclusive’ would be to allow falsity, and this is opposed to Truth. The Church must be exclusive.
2 Thess 3:6 “And we charge you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly, and not according to the tradition which they have received of us.”
Galatians 1:9 “As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.”

To say, if you are not this or that, no matter how much you believe, serve, or what kind of faith you have, you’re not going to Heaven!

It does matter what kind of faith you have:
Matthew 10:22 “… but he that persevere unto the end, he shall be saved”
Matthew 24:13 “But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved”
… a weak faith will not persevere. A faith without works will not persevere (cf. James 2:24).

It does matter how much you believe:
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in Thy Name, and cast out devils in Thy Name, and done many miracles in Thy Name? And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.”
James 2:19 “Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe in tremble.”

As St. Paul says,
“One body and one Spirit; as you are called in one hope… one Lord, one faith, one baptism. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in all.” (Ephesians 4:5)

And guess what, when Jesus said, strengten thy brethren, His message was meant for us too; to strengthen each other, to edify, not divide the body! In other words, the catholic church is not the only way to Heaven!

We are called to strengthen in each other… in Faith and in Truth. Not lies. Unity is not achieved by tolerance, but by conviction.

 

[AnneElliot]

Show me in the Bible where the the Papacy is and don’t give me this Peter was the first Pope. Peter was never in Rome. The archeological evidence shows he is buried in Jerusalem. At the mount of Olives. Peter was the Apostle to the Jews not the gentiles. All the apostles were given the keys to the kingdom on the day of Pentecost not just Peter.

To begin with, it does not matter if Peter was never in Rome. The Papacy is not dependent upon location. We can quibble about whether Peter was in Rome or where he died and was buried, but that has no bearing, whatsoever, on the truth of the Papacy.

You demand proof from the Bible of the Papacy, but then conjure up your own ideas in claiming that “all the apostles were given the keys to the kingdom on the day of Pentecost”.

Peter was the only apostle to be given the keys to the kingdom. Our Lord specifically entrusted the office of steward (which is what the giving of the keys to the kingdom signifies) to Peter according to Matthew’s Gospel. No where else in Scripture is another apostle said to be given the keys to the kingdom.

Lastly, it is not inconsequential that Peter’s name always heads the list of the apostles and Judas Iscariot is dead last.

Read Paul’s letter to Rome. He never mentions Peter. Paul gives greetings to a lot of other people. Why not peter? By the time Paul wrote the letter Peter should have been there for several years. Paul is surprised at the church of Rome’s lack of knowledge. How could that be if the Pope himself was teaching them?

St. Paul’s letter to the Christians in Rome was written sometime between 57-58 AD. Catholics traditionally hold that St. Peter went to Rome later (mid 60s AD at the earliest).

The Pope is infallible yet, Paul scolded Peter and told him he was wrong for having believers adapt Jewish customs first before becoming a Christian.

Infallibility is not impeccability. Indeed, far more scandalous than being upbraided by Paul was Peter’s denial of Jesus, not once, but three times!

 

[Nicea325]

Quote:
Originally Posted by davec66
Show me in the Bible where the the Papacy is and don’t give me this Peter was the first Pope. Peter was never in Rome. The archeological evidence shows he is buried in Jerusalem. At the mount of Olives. Peter was the Apostle to the Jews not the gentiles. All the apostles were given the keys to the kingdom on the day of Pentecost not just Peter.

Show you in the Bible? Ahhhhhh…the pope is a BISHOP,clearly in the NT.

WRONG! There is not a single shred of written evidence from ANY city claiming Peter being buried anywhere,but Rome.

Peter was never in Rome? The Bible, however, does not deny that he was ever in Rome either. Examine early Church writings, and touch on a bit of archaeology.

Other early writings show that Peter was martyred in Rome by being crucified upside down in 67 A.D… Peter being in Rome was written about by many early Church writers, some of whom are listed here…

1. St Irenaeus in ‘AGAINST HERESIES’: CHAP. I.–THE APOSTLES DID NOT COMMENCE TO PREACH THE GOSPEL… 3. “…in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome, and laying the foundations of the Church.”
2. St Irenaeus, CHAP. III.–A REFUTATION OF THE HERETICS, FROM THE FACT THAT, IN THE VARIOUS CHURCHES, A PERPETUAL SUCCESSION OF BISHOPS WAS KEPT UP. 2. "…the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized** at Rome **by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops.
3. Tertullian, ‘THE DEMURRER AGAINST THE HERETICS’: CHAP.XXXII.–NONE OF THE HERETICS CLAIM SUCCESSION FROM THE APOSTLES. 8. "…as the church of Smyrna, which records that Polycarp was placed therein by John; as also the church of Rome, which makes Clement to have been ordained in like manner by Peter.

Who ordains priests? Bishops do. Clement was ordained by the Bishop of Rome, Peter.

Try again because your spiritual pride blinds you.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Peter was the only apostle to be given the keys to the kingdom. Our Lord specifically entrusted the office of steward (which is what the giving of the keys to the kingdom signifies) to Peter according to Matthew’s Gospel. No where else in Scripture is another apostle said to be given the keys to the kingdom.

Luke 11
52Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Lukr 11:52 says that you enter the kingdom with the key of knowledge. Jesus makes it clear that the keys He is giving to the apostles are the keys to the kingdom Matt16:19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:

This is not some administrative function. It is the means by which people enter the kingdom and as it says in Luke that is by knowledge. Of what? Well of Jesus, of coarse. The keys to the kingdom of heaven are the words of Jesus. Jn.17: 17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

 

[1beleevr]

This is what cracks me up about some non-Catholic Christians, who apparently don’t know much about Catholicism. What makes you think that I believe that Jesus can only be found in a Church? Go to a Catholic Mass, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church and read some of the early works of the Saints and Doctors of the Church before you come to some crazy conclusion about Catholics, where you think that you are the only one in Christian history who “figured it out”.

Let’s start with the Bible, which is a Catholic Book, approved by the Catholic Church and Catholic Popes. Do you dispute this fact? If not for the Catholic Church, you would not know about Jesus and we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

One cannot connect the Christian dots without first connecting the Catholic dots…

Your thoughts?

On anumber of occasions on this forum, it has ben stated, that “there is no salvation outside the catholic church!” Some have said that you can only meet Jesus in church! The Ethiopian eunuch was not in church when he met Christ. You guys believe that the Bible is your work, but I’m sure the Jews would beg to differ(at least on the OT) And I believe that I would know about Jesus without the catholic church! If one starts with the Cross, one can easily connect the Christian dots! Your pope John Paul II, said that ALL men could be saved, even if they were’nt catholic!

 

[AnneElliot]

Your pope John Paul II, said that ALL men could be saved, even if they were’nt catholic!

Where?

It is a universal truth that all men CAN be saved… by entering the Catholic Church. Conversion is open to all.

 

[1beleevr]

The contrary is true, when you start to ignore what “Roman Catholic” means, and ignore reason and the effects of Protestant seperation you will end up with Religious Relativism. The Roman Catholic Church contains the four marks of the church (One Holy Catholic and Apostolic) and it maintains it teaches all the Truths that are revealed thus far. All other denominations are in contentions of some or most of the truths taught by RCC, but they are not totally seperate; denominations that have a Trinitarian Baptism (hard to believe) are still part of the Church though they are not fully united in matters of faith.

If you don’t find yourself encountering Jesus in Church once a week then your not actaully following the Gospel - or the Ten Commandments either (hard to believe, huh?)

W-R-O-N-G! The rcc is just another religion, denomination, etc, You have a pope, we have pastors! And actually if you do not encounter Christ on a daily basis, I will pray that you learn how to!

 

[AnneElliot]

The Ethiopian eunuch was not in church when he met Christ.

Acts 8:27-39 "… And behold a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch, of great authority under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge over all her treasures, had come to Jerusalem to adore. And he was returning, sitting in his chariot, and reading Isaias the prophet. And the Spirit said to Philip: Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. And Philip running thither, heard him reading the prophet Isaias. And he said: Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest?

Who said: And how can I, unless some man shew me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. And the place of the scripture which he was reading was this: He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb without voice before his shearer, so openeth he not his mouth. In humility his judgment was taken away. His generation who shall declare, for his life shall be taken from the earth? And the eunuch answering Philip, said: I beseech thee, of whom doth the prophet speak this? of himself, or of some other man? Then Philip, opening his mouth, and beginning at this scripture, preached unto him Jesus.

And as they went on their way, they came to a certain water; and the eunuch said: See, here is water: what doth hinder me from being baptized? And Philip said: If thou believest with all thy heart, thou mayest. And he answering, said: I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still; and they went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch: and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord took away Philip; and the eunuch saw him no more. And he went on his way rejoicing."

 

[1beleevr]

Where?

It is a universal truth that all men CAN be saved… by entering the Catholic Church. Conversion is open to all.

Hogwash!!! Nowhere in the plan of salvation does it say one has to be catholic to be saved! It says,"and all who believe in Him, will not perish, but have everlasting life! Nice try though!

 

[AnneElliot]

Hogwash!!! Nowhere in the plan of salvation does it say one has to be catholic to be saved! It says,"and all who believe in Him, will not perish, but have everlasting life! Nice try though!

You still haven’t provided your quote from Pope John Paul II…

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Where?

It is a universal truth that all men CAN be saved… by entering the Catholic Church. Conversion is open to all.

When you going to learn Anne?

Jn.14
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This is the ONLY way anyone is saved.

 

[1beleevr]

Acts 8:27-39 "… And behold a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch, of great authority under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge over all her treasures, had come to Jerusalem to adore. And he was returning, sitting in his chariot, and reading Isaias the prophet. And the Spirit said to Philip: Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. And Philip running thither, heard him reading the prophet Isaias. And he said: Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest?

Who said: And how can I, unless some man shew me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. And the place of the scripture which he was reading was this: He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb without voice before his shearer, so openeth he not his mouth. In humility his judgment was taken away. His generation who shall declare, for his life shall be taken from the earth? And the eunuch answering Philip, said: I beseech thee, of whom doth the prophet speak this? of himself, or of some other man? Then Philip, opening his mouth, and beginning at this scripture, preached unto him Jesus.

And as they went on their way, they came to a certain water; and the eunuch said: See, here is water: what doth hinder me from being baptized? And Philip said: If thou believest with all thy heart, thou mayest. And he answering, said: I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still; and they went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch: and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord took away Philip; and the eunuch saw him no more. And he went on his way rejoicing."

I am familiar with this passage; but the eunuch was in the wilderness, and went DOWN into the water! Not in church!

 

[AnneElliot]

I am familiar with this passage; but the eunuch was in the wilderness, and went DOWN into the water! Not in church!

It is through Baptism that one enters the Church. This is precisely what the eunuch did after receiving the truth about Jesus from Philip… while outside the faith, the eunuch declared that he could not understand, unless someone showed him.

 

[AnneElliot]

When you going to learn Anne?

Jn.14
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This is the ONLY way anyone is saved.

I don’t disagree. Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation.

 

[1beleevr]

It is through Baptism that one enters the Church. This is precisely what the eunuch did after receiving the truth about Jesus from Philip… while outside the faith, the eunuch declared that he could not understand, unless someone showed him.

It is through baptism that our salvation is sealed; we do not have to be baptized to join a church! Do you think the eunuch was fully immersed? Phillip was used by God to lead the eunuch to salvation.

 

[1beleevr]

I don’t disagree. Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation.

And I agree, John 14:6!

 

[AnneElliot]

It is through baptism that our salvation is sealed; we do not have to be baptized to join a church! Do you think the eunuch was fully immersed? Phillip was used by God to lead the eunuch to salvation.

The Church is the body of Christ. It is through baptism that we are made living members of His body, the Church.

 

[1beleevr]

Where?

It is a universal truth that all men CAN be saved… by entering the Catholic Church. Conversion is open to all.

In a statement, dated December 7, 1990, pope John Paul II, said(not the complete text): The universality of salvation, means that it is granted to ALL, not only to those who explicitly believe in Christ, or have entered the church. Since salvation is offered to ALL, it must be concretely available to ALL!

 

[1beleevr]

The Church is the body of Christ. It is through baptism that we are made living members of His body, the Church.

You see, I do not entertain such an air of exclusivity. I believe that Christ’s church is the entirety of believers, worldwide! People are dying to know Christ, and countless others are dying without Christ, while we Christians debate doctrine!