Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

[Brian_Millar]

Weird. I recall it began here locally, wa. state around the late 70’s.

 

[sodak]

Thank you for your understanding and KIND response.

There seem to be massive extremists on this forum that have zero interests in explaining anything or evangelizing the Catholic faith to others. Quite honestly, the past few responses make me sick.

Not everyone is posting questions in this forum as an anti-Catholic with a hidden malicious agenda behind their questioning. If the best people have is simply to state “you don’t know” or “believe it because the church says so or stay out of our church” then that is sad. Not to mention belittle you, and question your sincerity about conversion, it’s no wonder the attendance levels are where they are at today.

I won’t let them bother me. I will continue my inquiry and discernment and forget their ugliness. The Masses I have attended so far have been excellent and the people have been extremely nice, warm, and welcoming.

Thank you for your response again.

Glad you’re warm and fuzzy now. I still have questions from posts 1235 and 1238 that I would like answered. I’m especially interested in your backhanded compliment of our Pope, if that’s what that was.

 

[nicholmarine]

If you know Jesus, then you will become a Catholic before you are saved - either here in this life, or else in Purgatory.

Dont you mean Christian?

 

[peary]

“Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?”

No.

Yes. The Church is what he established historically on earth to preach the good news and to offer salvation to all the people of the world. The Catholic Church contains the fullness of Faith.

John 10:16
“And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.”

There were no protestants at this time.

The RCC isn’t nesssary to salvation; Jesus is, however.

He established His Church for that purpose. He works through it, and He works through us, His body on earth.

In response to the question (is there salvation outside the Church) Catholics have, in ages past, responded unequivocally in the negative. The Second Vatican Council and more recent ecumenical endeavors have, of course, asserted that non-Catholics may too end up in Heaven.

If, not knowing the God of whom they seek and, in good conscience, suffer from invincible ignorance of Christ and His Church, then God, in His infinite mercy, may offer them salvation.

 

[CBS]

Glad you’re warm and fuzzy now. I still have questions from posts 1235 and 1238 that I would like answered. I’m especially interested in your backhanded compliment of our Pope, if that’s what that was.

Well I definitely don’t take commands from people with attitudes. I also never made a “backhanded compliment” about Pope Benedict XVI. I said he has a message of love and unity amongst all believers. It is apparent that some people in this thread never got that message.

 

[peary]

Originally Posted by jmcrae:

If you know Jesus, then you will become a Catholic before you are saved - either here in this life, or else in Purgatory.
Originally posted by nicholmarine:

Dont you mean Christian?

Whether or not one is a Catholic or nonCatholic (or even nonChristian, for that matter), one’s soul may have to go through a purification after death (purgatory).

 

[jmcrae]

If you know Jesus, then you will become a Catholic before you are saved - either here in this life, or else in Purgatory.

Dont you mean Christian?

The term “Christian” can be misunderstood to refer to people who are not in full communion with Christ, so that’s why I used the term “Catholic.”

There will be no non-Catholic Christians in Heaven, nor any other religions - they will have become Catholic - that is, they will have entered into full communion with Jesus Christ - at some time between now and when they actually arrive in Heaven.

 

[SimonArizona]

Salvation outside the Church

Ignatius of Antioch

“Be not deceived, my brethren: If anyone follows a maker of schism *, he does not inherit the kingdom of God; if anyone walks in strange doctrine *, he has no part in the passion [of Christ]. Take care, then, to use one Eucharist, so that whatever you do, you do according to God: For there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup in the union of his blood; one altar, as there is one bishop, with the presbytery and my fellow servants, the deacons” (Letter to the Philadelphians 3:3–4:1 [A.D. 110]).

Irenaeus

“In the Church God has placed apostles, prophets, teachers, and every other working of the Spirit, of whom none of those are sharers who do not conform to the Church, but who defraud themselves of life by an evil mind and even worse way of acting. Where the Church is, there is the Spirit of God; where the Spirit of God is, there is the Church and all grace” (Against Heresies 3:24:1 [A.D. 189]).

“[The spiritual man] shall also judge those who give rise to schisms, who are destitute of the love of God, and who look to their own special advantage rather than to the unity of the Church; and who for trifling reasons, or any kind of reason which occurs to them, cut in pieces and divide the great and glorious body of Christ, and so far as in them lies, destroy it—men who prate of peace while they give rise to war, and do in truth strain out a gnat, but swallow a camel. For they can bring about no ‘reformation’ of enough importance to compensate for the evil arising from their schism. . . . True knowledge is that which consists in the doctrine of the apostles, and the ancient constitution of the Church throughout all the world, and the distinctive manifestation of the body of Christ according to the successions of the bishops, by which they have handed down that Church which exists in every place *” (ibid., 4:33:7–8).

Lactantius

“It is, therefore, the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth; this, the domicile of faith; this, the temple of God. Whoever does not enter there or whoever does not go out from there, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. . . . Because, however, all the various groups of heretics are confident that they are the Christians and think that theirs is the Catholic Church, let it be known that this is the true Church, in which there is confession and penance and which takes a health-promoting care of the sins and wounds to which the weak flesh is subject” (Divine Institutes 4:30:11–13 [A.D. 307]).

Jerome

“Heretics bring sentence upon themselves since they by their own choice withdraw from the Church, a withdrawal which, since they are aware of it, constitutes damnation. Between heresy and schism there is this difference: that heresy involves perverse doctrine, while schism separates one from the Church on account of disagreement with the bishop. Nevertheless, there is no schism which does not trump up a heresy to justify its departure from the Church” (Commentary on Titus 3:10–11 [A.D. 386]).

Augustine

“We believe also in the holy Church, that is, the Catholic Church. For heretics violate the faith itself by a false opinion about God; schismatics, however, withdraw from fraternal love by hostile separations, although they believe the same things we do. Consequently, neither heretics nor schismatics belong to the Catholic Church; not heretics, because the Church loves God; and not schismatics, because the Church loves neighbor” (Faith and the Creed 10:21 [A.D. 393]).

“[J]ust as baptism is of no profit to the man who renounces the world in words and not in deeds, so it is of no profit to him who is baptized in heresy or schism; but each of them, when he amends his ways, begins to receive profit from that which before was not profitable, but was yet already in him” (On Baptism, Against the Donatists 4:4[6] [A.D. 400]).

“I do not hesitate to put the Catholic catechumen, burning with divine love, before a baptized heretic. Even within the Catholic Church herself we put the good catechumen ahead of the wicked baptized person . . . For Cornelius, even before his baptism, was filled up with the Holy Spirit [Acts 10:44–48], while Simon [Magus], even after his baptism, was puffed up with an unclean spirit [Acts 8:13–19]” (ibid., 4:21[28]).

“The apostle Paul said, ‘As for a man that is a heretic, after admonishing him once or twice, have nothing more to do with him’ [Titus 3:10]. But those who maintain their own opinion, however false and perverted, without obstinate ill will, especially those who have not originated the error of bold presumption, but have received it from parents who had been led astray and had lapsed . . . those who seek the truth with careful industry and are ready to be corrected when they have found it, are not to be rated among heretics” (Letters 43:1 [A.D. 412]).

“Whoever is separated from this Catholic Church, by this single sin of being separated from the unity of Christ, no matter how estimable a life he may imagine he is living, shall not have life, but the wrath of God rests upon him” (ibid., 141:5).***

 

[nicholmarine]

The term “Christian” can be misunderstood to refer to people who are not in full communion with Christ, so that’s why I used the term “Catholic.”

There will be no non-Catholic Christians in Heaven, nor any other religions - they will have become Catholic - that is, they will have entered into full communion with Jesus Christ - at some time between now and when they actually arrive in Heaven.

Help me find where that si said? I am a catholic. I converted from the holiness denomination (Families church). I have seen the Lord in his glory in my families church. I can not see that any of my fanily not making it into Heaven because they are not catholic. Even the Catholic church reconizes other denominations. They even have other denominations during Vatican II process.

 

[submittedjoy]

I know of nowhere in scripture where salvation is conditional by being routed through a church. Salvation is entirely dependent on Jesus.

 

[peary]

Help me find where that si said? I am a catholic. I converted from the holiness denomination (Families church). I have seen the Lord in his glory in my families church. I can not see that any of my fanily not making it into Heaven because they are not catholic. Even the Catholic church reconizes other denominations. They even have other denominations during Vatican II process.

I would say that the Catholic Church recognizes Christian denominations (the Catholic Church is NOT a denomination) insofar as their members receive a valid Baptism. Remember, too, that nonCatholic ecclesial communities also have our Scriptures (the Bible) and are offered a life of grace because of their Baptism.
However, the Church does not make these other ecclesial communities ‘equal’ because they are separated from the Church and from the fullness of the knowledge of Faith. Also, one can be offered salvation if suffering from what the Church terms “invincible ignorance,” which means that one is not aware that the Catholic Church is the Church which Christ established on earth to preach the Gospel and offer all a life of grace and salvation.

 

[sodak]

Even Pope Benedict XVI teaches love and unity amongst believers referencing the CCC 830, not rudeness and snide remarks.

Well I definitely don’t take commands from people with attitudes. I also never made a “backhanded compliment” about Pope Benedict XVI.

See your above quote. Even Pope Benedict? Like he’s the last person you would expect to teach love?

I said he has a message of love and unity amongst all believers. It is apparent that some people in this thread never got that message.

You come in here using terms that are quite offensive to Catholics, insult our Pope, then you wonder why people question your motives. People explain this to you, and you don’t apologize. And then act “hurt” because people aren’t being kind. Passive aggressive behavior doesn’t work well on these forums. You want a debate or some answers, then show some respect for our Church. And start answering our questions also.

 

[BiblicalDavid]

Only if they have a valid Baptism (Triune) can they be considered authentically ‘christian’.

Authenticity is an interesting word. Many, through the sacrament of baptism have become members of the Christian body. Yet at what point do I consider myself truely authentic? Is it something that I will find any kind of credit for? No. Even in baptism many people go through a variety of stages which might even lead to a lack of salvation. I am hopeful that I am authentic enough to pass the final judgement.

What of the pagan or person who is not aware of “God within” that looks at the Christians and sees the good that they do to eachother, then decides to practice some of this himself without getting baptised…? I have heard many a sermon about this by kindly and spirit filled priests and they assure me that their salvation is possible.

I am uncomfortable to speculate on what Christ himself would think about one situation or another. I doubt anyone would know for sure because he was clearly a rule breaker. I personally do not think that anyone makes it to heaven without being baptised in either the direct mystical blood of Christ (which the theif on the cross was) and the sacramental baptism found in the traditions of the Church. It is through the Devine mercy of Christ that these things are dispositioned… and I personally dare not speculate on what Christ chooses or does not choose to do. I do concede to the articles of the Catholic faith but so far nothing I have said disagrees or conflicts with these teachings.

As I believe in the miraculous transformation of the Body and Blood, all things of this nature are possible. Given the greater benefit of the importance of such sacraments, I would not leave it to pure wondering or a possibility if given the the opportunity to be baptised. There is no question that this is a good idea.

Great Joy and Welcome to all who are considering becoming Catholic. I hope you find the love of Jesus Christ in your life.

 

[BiblicalDavid]

What if they kept the teachings, yet changed the ceremony, in the end, that ultimately is what would happen. I don’t know about you, but I’m tired of the same tired ceremony, I want to break it up a bit so people actually are more involved, more interested, and are not just doing it all through route. This makes it so that there will be less benchwarmers and more people actively involved and interested during mass.

This is my observation from what I’m seeing happen dynamic wise with protestant denominations. They all tend to lean towards one direction over the other. One church will have extensive bible study right after service in a more informal setting, they even meet at each others homes for this as well, this is not a bad thing for them to bring to the table, others are leaning more along group fellowship, where you are actively involved with the congregation. I can recall when it was included within mass for us to shake hands and say to one another, peace be with you, this was mandated because people were not talking to each other, it was a forceful way of doing it and entirely ineffective, yet clearly shows there is something lacking in this department, and again, this is something some denominations can bring to the table. Others, we’ll take the southern baptists for example, go ballistic in song and worship, they have a real fire going on during service, we simply don’t put out enough energy as Catholics while we sing to the Lord, and yet again, another element that we would benifet from.

The list goes on and on, reintegration would not only make the Catholic church much, much stronger as an all inclusive unifying force, it would ultimately enhance our faith to much larger degrees, regardless of what denomination you began from.

I like the things you are talking about here. I think most Catholics long for some reintegration of sorts. Sometimes I have a certain amount of spiritual envy when it comes to the music of other faiths. In particular, I really love southern spirituals and soulful african american “baptist” music. As a person who has participated in Catholic sacred music, some of these things seem attractive to me. On the other hand I have a lot of conflict with the horizontal nature of this musical performance as opposed to the vertical. As well, the reverence and the solimnity of the Catholic mass, as a reinactment of Christ sacrafice for us, seems to exclude naturally a lot of jumping up and down and shouting music. Moreover,I also find little comfort in some of the accomodations the church has made for contemporary mass music, teen mass with electric guitar, polka mass, and a variety of other alterations. To some extent I find that some of this gets away from music that wholeheartedly praises God. Do we need to have a “Dave and the Chipmunks” mass for the Children. The ultimate result would be a highly irreverent production of “Oo-ee-Oo-Ah-Ah-Bing-Bang-Walla Walla-Bing Bang”. I also find a certain amount of people that look down at more traditional approaches to worship simply because they are not jumping around in their pew’s like a jumping bean and waving their arms around and staring up and some vertical horizon point(god is every where always by the way) I think some of these efforts to accomodate those who are bored are misguided and greater study of the mass and its function are more important.

I wonder how many people say to themselve after each mass “Great Joy, Great Joy, I have recieved the Body of Christ” or have been to caught up in how good the music was to simply thank god for this great gift and ritual.

I am admittely a bit of a music critic and sometimes these teen masses and polka accomodations give great material for personal penance for me. In some cases agonizing penance because the vocalist hasn’t sung a right note for over ten years.

My personal penance issues aside, If it is a tired cerimony for you perhaps you should study its majesty.

 

[Brian_Reeves]

The sure way to hell…What you’ve just done, denying the Godhead of Jesus Christ…“No one comes to the Father except throungh Me”

 

[Brian_Reeves]

I feel that the two should have been separated out since I believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to Salvation but the Roman Catholic church, as it stands at the moment, is not necessarily the only way. Our Lady at Medjugorje said that “God sees no divisions” that is in the Christ centred faiths. But how many faiths are truly Christ centred !!!

 

[Brian_Reeves]

I feel that the two should have been separated out since I believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to Salvation but the Roman Catholic church, as it stands at the moment, is not necessarily the only way. Our Lady at Medjugorje said that “God sees no divisions” that is in the Christ centred faiths. But how many faiths are truly Christ centred !!!

 

[Brian_Reeves]

I feel that the two should have been separated out since I believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to Salvation but the Roman Catholic church, as it stands at the moment, is not necessarily the only way. Our Lady at Medjugorje said that “God sees no divisions” that is in the Christ centred faiths. But how many faiths are truly Christ centred !!!

 

[peary]

Authenticity is an interesting word. Many, through the sacrament of baptism have become members of the Christian body. Yet at what point do I consider myself truely authentic? Is it something that I will find any kind of credit for? No. Even in baptism many people go through a variety of stages which might even lead to a lack of salvation. I am hopeful that I am authentic enough to pass the final judgement.

"I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." - That is what is meant by an ‘authentic’ Baptism: the Trinity.

What of the pagan or person who is not aware of “God within” that looks at the Christians and sees the good that they do to each other, then decides to practice some of this himself without getting baptised…? I have heard many a sermon about this by kindly and spirit filled priests and they assure me that their salvation is possible.

True.

I am uncomfortable to speculate on what Christ himself would think about one situation or another. I doubt anyone would know for sure because he was clearly a rule breaker. I personally do not think that anyone makes it to heaven without being baptised in either the direct mystical blood of Christ (which the theif on the cross was) and the sacramental baptism found in the traditions of the Church. It is through the Devine mercy of Christ that these things are dispositioned… and I personally dare not speculate on what Christ chooses or does not choose to do. I do concede to the articles of the Catholic faith but so far nothing I have said disagrees or conflicts with these teachings.

God’s mercy and understanding outweighs any other consideration.

.

 

[CBS]

See your above quote. Even Pope Benedict? Like he’s the last person you would expect to teach love?

That was not my intention, that was your assumption of my wording. I love Pope Benedict XVI and have utmost respect for the man. The term “Even” is acknowledging that he is the figurehead of the Catholic Church and teaches these positions. So if he teaches these positions maybe you should as well.

You come in here using terms that are quite offensive to Catholics, insult our Pope, then you wonder why people question your motives.

That is entirely incorrect and your false interpretation.

People explain this to you, and you don’t apologize. And then act “hurt” because people aren’t being kind. Passive aggressive behavior doesn’t work well on these forums. You want a debate or some answers, then show some respect for our Church. And start answering our questions also.

I have never disrespected the Church or Pope in any way.

The great majority of people on these forums are extremely helpful and kind, only a handful seem to be extremely paranoid that everyone is out to get them and immediately go into defense mode and ASSUME people are insulting them.

I’m not apologizing for your false assumptions and jumping to conclusions.

I would be more inclined to answer your questions if you didn’t answer my questions with questions, insults, and a snotty attitude.