Is Jesus God?

[cides23]

Jesus said:
NRS Matthew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rockI will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

Jesus has the keys to Hades:
NJB Revelation 1:18 I was dead and look – I am alive for ever and ever, and I hold the keys of death and of Hades.

Jesus will resurrect his disciples who die and that is why Hades will not prevail. You are welcome to your claim that you have the truth, but merely claiming it is not proof of it.

it means his church will never become over come by error by the father of lies the devil. there will never be a total apostasy like JW"s mormons claims. The church guided by the HOly Spirit will teach all truth not teach false teachings and keep correcting it by saying the light is getting brighter. there is nothing for me to prove but the church His church stands and proves herself by remaining the same church founded by Jesus and has over come and continues to over come heresies and sin. you have not really studied history but study what the Watch Tower gives you… unless you go and study other documents but i was told by JW’s themselves that they will not look at other documents… in the book should you believe in the Trinity, early church fathers were suppose to have been quoted although there were no quotes of info of where the info was taken, but we have all their quotes and those that the JW’s try to quote all taught Jesus is truly True GOD and True Man. All tought what the Catholic Church still teaches and nothing contradicts the Bible. remember Protestants also quote scripture and can try to show all their teachings via bible but Jesus did not hand us a bible but gave us a church and has give Peter the Keys to bind and loose, Peter shares in that which is JEsus’s.
the tract record of the JW’s is well based on false teachings which can be easily disputed by scripture. yes you have tried to justify the JW’s teachings but you know what, all that is contradicting what and on how the first Christians viewed it. So your teachings are new and well if it’s new it aint true or else that means the HOly Spirit has not guided the church to all truth. plain and simple. So you can claim you have the truth but claiming it is not proving it either… Mormons SDA they all do the same as the JW’s and can go to scripture and say see we are teaching what the bible say, all heresey did that, and Peter warned us in his letter to becareful of such people who distort scripture.
Sorry, but when it comes to Jesus i don’t play and your JW"S teaching is down right heresy!!! it has recycled from heresy that was once dispelled.
and remember the trinity was not made up it was better explained during the times when the teachings were disputed and hersey had come. Actually prior to Arianism, the trinity was already taught in some writings. JW similiar to ARianism but not quite. so you can go door to door and think you all are the only ones doing so, Mormons do it too and evangelicals, but that does not mean you shareing the truth… and that is the sad part… we just have to pray for you all. read stories of ex JW’s and you can see the false and lies of the leaders of the watch tower…

 

[Dan_Parker]

cides23:
it means his church will never become over come by error by the father of lies the devil. there will never be a total apostasy like JW"s mormons claims.

Dan:
That is your interpretation, and you have not discussed the verses I used to show that the Son has the keys to Hades. Hades is not a synonym for error. I have no idea where you get this interpretation, but you don’t support if from scripture.

cides23:
The church guided by the HOly Spirit will teach all truth not teach false teachings and keep correcting it by saying the light is getting brighter. there is nothing for me to prove but the church His church stands and proves herself by remaining the same church founded by Jesus and has over come and continues to over come heresies and sin.

Dan:
You claim the modern Catholic Church has been the body of Christ since the 1st century. I don’t agree. You assume and presume that Jesus founded your Church. That is not proof.

cides23:
you have not really studied history but study what the Watch Tower gives you… unless you go and study other documents but i was told by JW’s themselves that they will not look at other documents… in the book should you believe in the Trinity, early church fathers were suppose to have been quoted although there were no quotes of info of where the info was taken, but we have all their quotes and those that the JW’s try to quote all taught Jesus is truly True GOD and True Man. All tought what the Catholic Church still teaches and nothing contradicts the Bible.

Dan:
I suggest you do a search of my posts and see the discussions on things that Justin Martyr and Theophilus taught. Justin Martyr taught that the Son was not the Creator and that the Father was so great that he could not have come down to the earth but the Son could.

Theophilus taught that John 1:1 should be interpreted as “At First God was alone and the Word in him.” Catholics today would never say God was alone.

I don’t claim these theologians taught what JWs teach either, but the closer one gets to the 1st century the closer one gets to JW theology and the farther away one gets to modern Catholicism.

 

[Dan_Parker]

So Peter has no keys? Hmmm…
I wasn’t aware that we read the bible like the Muslims read the Koran and let one Scripture over-rule another.

Peter is not said to have the keys to Hades.

 

[NotWorthy]

Peter is not said to have the keys to Hades.

Good point. Many Non-Catholic Christians argue that the Keys given to Peter in Matthew 16 are the same Keys that Jesus possesses in Revelation, meaning Jesus took them back. I was under the assumption that you were making the same error.

But, as cides (and the Church) has claimed, “The gates will never prevail against Her (the Church)” is interpreted as meaning the Church will not teach False Dogmas.

 

[Martin_R]

3 And God** said**: Be light made. And light was made.

The Word of God…before He came in the flesh, Jesus.

Ah! So Jesus didn’t always exist, unlike God who did.

 

[NotWorthy]

Ah! So Jesus didn’t always exist, unlike God who did.

Not quite brother. He just didn’t assume Flesh until the Incarnation.

 

[raqrodriguez]

ahhh and thus we see the fruits of sola scriptura. Here. John 20 (NIV)

**Jesus Appears to Thomas **

24Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it.” 26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
29Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Don’t worry. I used to be like the Arians at one point, but this passage below shook me out of my stubborness and I could no longer shut my eyes and ears and heart to the truth.

John 1 (NIV)

John 1

**The Word Became Flesh **

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understooda] it.

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ " 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,e]f]who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.

This is so interesting. I have a friend who is a Jehovah’s Witness and in his version of the bible it states “1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was** a god**.” He, or course, does not believe that Jesus is God. I asked him this, “Do you and your bible mean to tell me that there is more than one god in heaven?” He couldn’t answer that. I went on in saying “Since I cannot and will not accept another god other then the True God, the only God, as you yourself believe as well, then it is my understanding that Jesus is God and I think that at this point you cant argue with that, right?”

He said he would investigate this and get back to me. He He

 

[Martin_R]

John 3:34 NASB
34"For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God…

This verse doesn’t look right if He *is *God.

It’s a bit like saying Jesus had the feet of Jesus - God speaks the words of God.

 

[dj_dave]

QUOTE=raqrodriguez;5931779]This is so interesting. I have a friend who is a Jehovah’s Witness and in his version of the bible it states “1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was** a god**.” He, or course, does not believe that Jesus is God. I asked him this, “Do you and your bible mean to tell me that there is more than one god in heaven?” He couldn’t answer that. I went on in saying “Since I cannot and will not accept another god other then the True God, the only God, as you yourself believe as well, then it is my understanding that Jesus is God and I think that at this point you cant argue with that, right?”

He said he would investigate this and get back to me. He He

Question “he he”: Who was Jesus talking about 60 years after he returned to heaven at Rev 3:12? ALSO, how, 60 years after he returned to heaven, could he receive something he didn’t have if he was the Almighty God? Rev 1:1;

 

[myfavoritmartin]

You know what? I have been going all over the different posts and realized that all of these have already been addressed by me.
Therefore i will leave it up to you to find them if you really wnat to know what we teach. i simply do not have the time to re-write them again, sorry…
ALSO THERE IS THIS…

web.archive.org/web/20040204191946/mysite.freeserve.com/newworldtranslation/pageindex.htm

I apologize profusely for some of the remarks you may read in my past posts. I guess I was taken by surprise at some of the crude responses and my Irish temper flared. (Proverbs 14:29) Rather, (Romans 14:19)

Bye for a while…agape

AGAPE.

I really don’t have an interest in hearing what any cult of satan teaches, i only hoped you came into this with an open mind to here about how Jesus is the truth and the light of the world.

 

[NotWorthy]

Question “he he”: Who was Jesus talking about 60 years after he returned to heaven at Rev 3:12? ALSO, how, 60 years after he returned to heaven, could he receive something he didn’t have if he was the Almighty God? Rev 1:1;

Question “he he”: Who was Jesus talking about 60 years after he returned to heaven at Rev 3:12? ALSO, how, 60 years after he returned to heaven, could he receive something he didn’t have if he was the Almighty God? Rev 1:1;Let’s see…
'***"The victor I will make into a pillar in the temple of my God, *and he will never leave it again. On him I will inscribe the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, as well as my new name.
Why, that would be Yahweh (side note… “Jehovah” is a mis-nomer) of course. But why should that even be in question. Every Sunday, Catholics recite the Creed:
… God from God, Light from Light. Begotten not Made…

It sounds natural for Jesus to refer to Yahweh as “My God”. He called Him “Father” all throughout the Gospels.

 

[Martin_R]

God “will provide” the Sacrifice in the form of His own son. Just because God provides the Sacrifice, doesn’t mean that God can’t be the sacrifice.

But Rom 8:3 tells us God sent His own Son as an offering for sin.
That speaks of two people but James 2:19 tells us that God is one, not two in one.
I expect you are thinking God is three in one but Eph 6:17 tells us the spirit is the word of God, not a person:
…and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

 

[Martin_R]

If God sacrificed Himself for man’s sin, that sounds like He’s given up and sinful man has the victory over God.

 

[NotWorthy]

But Rom 8:3 tells us God sent His own Son as an offering for sin.
That speaks of two people but James 2:19 tells us that God is one, not two in one.
I expect you are thinking God is three in one but Eph 6:17 tells us the spirit is the word of God, not a person:
…and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

No, I just simply refer to the Prologue of the Gospel of John and the teaching of the Church.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth.

 

[NotWorthy]

If God sacrificed Himself for man’s sin, that sounds like He’s given up and sinful man has the victory over God.

It can *sound *like whatever you want it to sound like.

In giving himself up to death and then rising and ascending, God conquered death and lifted man up where we can become Children of God.

 

[Martin_R]

It can *sound *like whatever you want it to sound like.

Agreed. I think it’s best to let it speak for itself rather than picking a religion and going with what they tell you.

In giving himself up to death and then rising and ascending, God conquered death and lifted man up where we can become Children of God.

But the Bible says it was Jesus who gave Himself up, not God or one of the three God people: Gal 1:4, Gal 2:20, Eph 5:2, Eph 5:25, 1Ti 2:6, Tts 2:14.

It also says God raised Jesus, not God raised Himself: Acts 2:32, Acts 4:10, Acts 5:30, Acts 10:40, Acts 17:31.

 

[NotWorthy]

Agreed. I think it’s best to let it speak for itself rather than picking a religion and going with what they tell you.

Yeah. I didn’t pick Catholicism. Left to my own devices, I probably would have chosen wrong… growing up in Evangelical country would have made that mis-choice more likely.

But I thank God I was born Catholic!!!

But the Bible says it was Jesus who gave Himself up, not God or one of the three God people: Gal 1:4, Gal 2:20, Eph 5:2, Eph 5:25, 1Ti 2:6, Tts 2:14.

It also says God raised Jesus, not God raised Himself: Acts 2:32, Acts 4:10, Acts 5:30, Acts 10:40, Acts 17:31.

Right, it does say Jesus. I’ve got no problem with that. Are you insinuating that Jesus isn’t God?

 

[Martin_R]

Yeah. I didn’t pick Catholicism. Left to my own devices, I probably would have chosen wrong… growing up in Evangelical country would have made that mis-choice more likely.
But I thank God I was born Catholic!!!

Oh dear.

Right, it does say Jesus. I’ve got no problem with that. Are you insinuating that Jesus isn’t God?

Yes. That’s what the Bible appears to say and why I started this thread.

 

[Martin_R]

Romans 8:3 Says God sent His Son as an offering for sin, not God was an offering for sin.

Then we have Mark 15:39 that says the centurion, who was standing right in front of Jesus, when he died said, “Truly this man was the Son of God!”
Not, “This man was God and now we’ve killed Him.”
We’ve just established that God raised Jesus so if God was dead, another God must have raised Him but we’re told there is only one God (Eph 4:6 and 1Cr 8:4).
Or maybe He wasn’t really dead, which makes the Bible wrong. Or maybe God is three in one but James 2:19 tells us God is one.

In Mark 10:18 Jesus Himself said "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

 

[cides23]

Romans 8:3 Says God sent His Son as an offering for sin, not God was an offering for sin.

Then we have Mark 15:39 that says the centurion, who was standing right in front of Jesus, when he died said, “Truly this man was the Son of God!”
Not, “This man was God and now we’ve killed Him.”
We’ve just established that God raised Jesus so if God was dead, another God must have raised Him but we’re told there is only one God (Eph 4:6 and 1Cr 8:4).
Or maybe He wasn’t really dead, which makes the Bible wrong. Or maybe God is three in one but James 2:19 tells us God is one.

In Mark 10:18 Jesus Himself said "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

By Jesus being referred to as the Son of GOD it is saying he is of the same nature same essance. That was the dispute in the Gospel John when Jesus said My father is working and i work… and they all the more wanted to kill Jesus… Jesus ask why kill me, they replied because you being a man make thyself GOD. (John 10) and other passage where is say, You call GOD your Father making yourself equal to GOD. … WHy, are we all call Sons of GOD, aren’t angel call sons of GOD but there is a difference when Jesus Calls himself or refers to himself as the Son of GOD and as the Only Begotten Son of GOD… he is of the same nature and essance as the Father, and what nature what essence? YHWH, GOD - - before Abraham was I AM… Exodus 3:14 I am who am… YWHW… GOD…

Jesus also said, destroy this temple and I will raise it up again… also, I have the power to lay down my life and raise it up again… So Jesus also raise himself… But remember Jesus is not the Father so if the Father raise Christ from the dead there is no contradiction with the true Christian teaching on the Trinity… of One GOD 3 Divine person.
James 2:19 say thou believes there is one GOD… not GOD is one… and well Amen we believe there is ONE GOD not 3 GODS…

Mark 10:18 is a good one that proves Jesus is GOD… WHy call me good, no one is good except GOD… Jesus is not saying he is not GOOD because infact he and scripture testifies that He is THE GOOD SHEPHARD… Jesus was trying to get the man to go deeper to explaining of why yes it is correct to say GOOD Master to Jesus for he is GOD.

If we follow your interpretation you are then saying Jesus is not GOOD… LOL WOW total Contradiction of Scripture. =)