Is Jesus God?

[MorningSong51]

Granted!

Though I am a cradle Catholic I do not know everything that the Church has written or how the Church defines everything in Scriptures… that said, I can only tell you that I suspect that the Church is not invested in teaching that we are equal to God (of God’s essence) due to the inherited errors that may arise when people go on proclaiming themselves god or equal to God.

However, anyone reading through the whole of the Sacred Scriptures can only conclude that though we are not yet as He is (God) we are of His essence since we were brought to life only through the influx of His Spirit, and that it is His Holy Spirit that continues to construct us into that new man (in the image of His Son) in order to perfect us into God’s Being. The battle that surges in us brings the flesh (temporal corporeal self) into direct conflict with the spirit (God’s Spirit who dwells in us); it is this same spirit that the Holy Spirit aides, as St. Paul reveals, in order to make our worship (prayer) acceptable to God. We find this revelation from the very beginning of the first indication of worship where Abel is instructed to offer to God the best of his herd… it is this same Holy Spirit, that awakens in Abraham the need to offer to Melchizedek the very first tithing… it is this very same Holy Spirit that reveals to Jacob that he has been in the Presence of God and he builds God the altar at Bethel… we are not just beigns of flesh and blood!

Jesus reminds the people of Israel that they have been called gods by God and that He is not merely of God’s essence, as all humans are, but that He is God (God of God)!

…but the contradiction only lies with our limited understanding of God and our need to bring everything to our level in order to accept it. Have you not noticed hollowood’s version of spirituality? It is a mish of eveything out there, which includes Catholic, Eastern religions, and even Satanism–have you noticed how eagerly some not only soup it up but actually are proud to identify themselves with such “spirituality?”

…we love to feel part of something… but we hate surrendering our will to God’s Authority; seeking to know Him as He has chosen to Reveal Himself is a great Stumbling Stone!

…God said we are gods–we are! …God said obey me–we must! …God said be perfect–we must strive to be perfect… problem is we cannot unless we accept God’s Terms!

Remember St. Peter on the water? …was he able to walk on the water because he determine that he could? …what happened when Peter relied on his temporal abilities rather than on Christ?

Since we are of God’s essence there is no contradiction with Scriptures because God is Eternal and Immutable: we are of God so we are gods. This state of beign does not place us in competition with God–well… that is… until we choose to place ourselves above Him. When that occurs we are engaging a practice well known to history where man no longer seeks to know God but proclaims himself to be a god!

It is this proclamation, even if it is just a thought within our own mind, that creates the rift between God the Creator and His creatures, made in His Image and Likeness (remember God is Spirit).

Maran atha!

Angel

…God said we are gods–we are! …God said obey me–we must! …God said be perfect–we must strive to be perfect… problem is we cannot unless we accept God’s Terms!

Shema means to hear, listen, and obey … ""The most important one, answered Jesus, “is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” (This is the first and greatest commandment–All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments)

All other laws branch out from this one commandment (like a vine or a branch), as well as do the prophets branch out from the main source which is God. (And you shall love…", contain the commands to love God) the Apostle Paul tells us “6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.” 1 Corinthians 8

Moses … then took the Book of the Covenant and read it in the ears of the people. They said, ‘All that God has spoken, we will do and we will hear.’ (Exodus 24:3-7) In the story of the Rich man who wanted to know how one can obtain eternal life '“Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” and Jesus gives him a list of laws and asked the man if he has (basically) “accomplished” these concepts (or the understandings of these laws - or obeyed them) and the man told Jesus - Yes. Then Jesus ask the man to sell everything he has and follow him - this rich man grieved and walk away. The important (most important) verse was “Who then can be saved?”- and Jesus tells Apostles “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

The idea is focus on the fact we need the help of God - to accomplish being perfect or to have eternal life, John 17:2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent", it’s in the follow me.

Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

 

[humble_maid]

Hi!

I’ve always thought that YHWH stood for Yahweh or “I Am” or “I Am Who Am;” but I do recall coming across the phrase above (“behold the hand, behold the man”)… I just don’t know where I read/heard it (could be from Father Mitch Pacwa–he always offers great explanations on the Hebrew/Aramaic roots).

Are you familiar with the link? …if so, do you know if the poster is fluent in Aramaic/Hebrew?

Maran atha!

Angel

It becomes possible to determine with a fair degree of certainty the historical pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, the results agreeing with the statement of Ex. iii. 14, in which Yhwh terms Himself “I will be,” a phrase which is immediately preceded by the fuller term “I will be that I will be,” or, as in the English versions, “I am” and “I am that I am.” The name is accordingly derived from the root HWH (=HYH ), and is regarded as an imperfect. This passage is decisive for the pronunciation “Yahweh”; for the etymology was undoubtedly based on the known word. The oldest exegetes, such as Onḳelos, and the Targumim of Jerusalem and pseudo-Jonathan regard “Ehyeh” and “Ehyeh asher Ehyeh” as the name of the Divinity, and accept the etymology of “hayah” = “to be” (comp. Samuel b. Meïr, commentary on Ex. iii. 14).

Read more: jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=165&letter=T#ixzz1VhzgiNgq

Though we have come to an understanding of the name revealed to Moses on Mt.Sinai, we are not exact on the actual pronounciation. Even so, I wished to emphasize on the letters themselves YHWH. Each letter has a symbol, meaning and value. If you do the math it states “BEHOLD THE HAND , BEHOLD THE NAIL”. We know that Jesus’ hands and feet were pierced with a nail.

Furthermore, Saint Thomas the Apostle doubted Jesus’ resurrection but when he saw Jesus resurrected he proclaimed “My Lord and my God” on seeing Jesus in John 20:28.

Of course there are many more scriptures which support that Yeshuah (Jesus) is God. This name alone means God is salvation. Emmanuelle is God is with us. These are the two names attributed to Our Lord.

God Bless

 

[jcrichton]

Why, if Jesus is one in being with the father as he says, does he not know of the time of his own second coming? That question only makes sense if you separate his person from the father’s person…“which our Catholic faith forbids…”

Consider too that, as the Lamb of God, the Word Incarnate chose not hold on to His Right to God’s Divinity; rather, He emptied Himself in order to Become that Perfect Sacrificial Lamb that would take on the sins of the world… as such, the Son of Man did not know the day and time, something that would be Revealed by the Father at the End of Times!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

It becomes possible to determine with a fair degree of certainty the historical pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, the results agreeing with the statement of Ex. iii. 14, in which Yhwh terms Himself “I will be,” a phrase which is immediately preceded by the fuller term “I will be that I will be,” or, as in the English versions, “I am” and “I am that I am.” The name is accordingly derived from the root HWH (=HYH ), and is regarded as an imperfect. This passage is decisive for the pronunciation “Yahweh”; for the etymology was undoubtedly based on the known word. The oldest exegetes, such as Onḳelos, and the Targumim of Jerusalem and pseudo-Jonathan regard “Ehyeh” and “Ehyeh asher Ehyeh” as the name of the Divinity, and accept the etymology of “hayah” = “to be” (comp. Samuel b. Meïr, commentary on Ex. iii. 14).

Read more: jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=165&letter=T#ixzz1VhzgiNgq

Though we have come to an understanding of the name revealed to Moses on Mt.Sinai, we are not exact on the actual pronounciation. Even so, I wished to emphasize on the letters themselves YHWH. Each letter has a symbol, meaning and value. If you do the math it states “BEHOLD THE HAND , BEHOLD THE NAIL”. We know that Jesus’ hands and feet were pierced with a nail.

Furthermore, Saint Thomas the Apostle doubted Jesus’ resurrection but when he saw Jesus resurrected he proclaimed “My Lord and my God” on seeing Jesus in John 20:28.

Of course there are many more scriptures which support that Yeshuah (Jesus) is God. This name alone means God is salvation. Emmanuelle is God is with us. These are the two names attributed to Our Lord.

God Bless

Thanks for the additional info; I love that rendering, makes me wish I was fluent in Arameic, Greek and Hebrew and that I could get access to whatever copies we have of the Holy Scrolls… in light of the hidden message (…behold the nail) I wonder about the various translations that seem to point to additional hidden facts (“the God of the Amen” or “the pierced one/the one that was pierced” or “full of Grace”)… is the link you’ve cited set up to allow users to search Biblical text such as the phrases in the parenthesis above?

Thanks again for your assistance!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Michael19682]

Consider too that, as the Lamb of God, the Word Incarnate chose not hold on to His Right to God’s Divinity; rather, He emptied Himself in order to Become that Perfect Sacrificial Lamb that would take on the sins of the world… as such, the Son of Man did not know the day and time, something that would be Revealed by the Father at the End of Times!

Maran atha!

Angel

Beautiful articulation! So true also, only signs of the end times were given; calamities etc.

Again, thank you, Angel!

 

[T_More]

Actually, regarding your claim that Jehovah’s Witnesses have “made prophetic predictions about the end of…‘this system of things,’” to put this into proper perspective, I would suggest your consideration of the following:

jehovah.to/exe/general/prophetic.htm

Agape, Alan.

I guess you don’t want to tackle the hard question I asked about where the JW’s/faithful discreet slave were before Russell. I understand, as there weren’t any.

In regards to your comparative article, the difference is that these men weren’t attaching dates and the WTBS has. Nice try, though.

 

[MorningSong51]

It becomes possible to determine with a fair degree of certainty the historical pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, the results agreeing with the statement of Ex. iii. 14, in which Yhwh terms Himself “I will be,” a phrase which is immediately preceded by the fuller term “I will be that I will be,” or, as in the English versions, “I am” and “I am that I am.” The name is accordingly derived from the root HWH (=HYH ), and is regarded as an imperfect. This passage is decisive for the pronunciation “Yahweh”; for the etymology was undoubtedly based on the known word. The oldest exegetes, such as Onḳelos, and the Targumim of Jerusalem and pseudo-Jonathan regard “Ehyeh” and “Ehyeh asher Ehyeh” as the name of the Divinity, and accept the etymology of “hayah” = “to be” (comp. Samuel b. Meïr, commentary on Ex. iii. 14).

Read more: jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=165&letter=T#ixzz1VhzgiNgq

Though we have come to an understanding of the name revealed to Moses on Mt.Sinai, we are not exact on the actual pronounciation. Even so, I wished to emphasize on the letters themselves YHWH. Each letter has a symbol, meaning and value. If you do the math it states “BEHOLD THE HAND , BEHOLD THE NAIL”. We know that Jesus’ hands and feet were pierced with a nail.

Furthermore, Saint Thomas the Apostle doubted Jesus’ resurrection but when he saw Jesus resurrected he proclaimed “My Lord and my God” on seeing Jesus in John 20:28.

Of course there are many more scriptures which support that Yeshuah (Jesus) is God. This name alone means God is salvation. Emmanuelle is God is with us. These are the two names attributed to Our Lord.

God Bless

Right, as this also proves another point, I am the Aleph and the Omega - the beginning and the end. Revelation 1:8 “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." and also read in verse 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last. (the beginning and the end, KJV)

When we recite the The Nicene Creed – Apostle’s Creed at mass, the first line states “Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem, Creatorem caeli et terrae, - We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, Maker of all that is, seen and unseen. ” we are professing a truth that God is the maker of all things that seen and unseen and we acknowledge it verbally outloud but (again) we must internal believe this. The word “We believe” – and when we say “amen” , John 6:35 – that is a confirmation or an acknowledgment of that truth. “Bereisheet bara Elohim”, “In [the] Beginning, Elohim created the Heavens and the Earth”, we also find truth.

The pope wrote an article, and within this article, he states “True enough: faith’s vision embraces heaven and earth; past, present and future; eternity – and so it can never be fully exhausted. And yet, deep down, it is quite simple. The Lord Himself tells us so when He says to the Father: “you have revealed these things to the simple – to those able to see with their hearts” (cf. Mt 11:25). The questionings to what is truth? or what can we know? And how can we understand these truths within us, to bring light/and also nourishment to the soul? (“we know that in the Greek/Western conception, truth (aletheia) is a property generally ascribed to linguistic states: a proposition p is true if and only if p obtains in the (empirical/observable) world.“) So in other words, and that thought, …we see and so it must be the truth – or it is and so we believe?

Reference:

How To Become God’s Partner In Creation
jewishpress.com/pageroute.do/36744/

GOD, NAMES OF: jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0007_0_07449.html

Hebrew Word of the Week hebrew4christians.com/Glossary/Word_of_the_Week/Archived/Emet/emet.html

Pope Benedict XVI –
The Apostles’ Creed adoremus.org/1106ApostlesCreed.html
What do we believe? We believe in God, who is the Beginning and End of human life.

Part One:The Apostles’ Creed 12.“Life Everlasting”
“God is the Alpha and the Omega – the first and the last letters of the Greek alphabet – because He is from everlasting unto everlasting (Revelation 1:8). He alone is without beginning because He always existed, and without end, because He will always exist.” therealpresence.org/essentials/creed/acc13.htm

Pope Benedict: philvaz.com/apologetics/p81.htm
“In the Beginning…” : A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall (Eerdmans, 1986, 1995) A commentary on Genesis 1-3 by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (English translation by Boniface Ramsey)
God the Creator;“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth…”

 

[MorningSong51]

It becomes possible to determine with a fair degree of certainty the historical pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, the results agreeing with the statement of Ex. iii. 14, in which Yhwh terms Himself “I will be,” a phrase which is immediately preceded by the fuller term “I will be that I will be,” or, as in the English versions, “I am” and “I am that I am.” The name is accordingly derived from the root HWH (=HYH ), and is regarded as an imperfect. This passage is decisive for the pronunciation “Yahweh”; for the etymology was undoubtedly based on the known word. The oldest exegetes, such as Onḳelos, and the Targumim of Jerusalem and pseudo-Jonathan regard “Ehyeh” and “Ehyeh asher Ehyeh” as the name of the Divinity, and accept the etymology of “hayah” = “to be” (comp. Samuel b. Meïr, commentary on Ex. iii. 14).

Read more: jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=165&letter=T#ixzz1VhzgiNgq

Though we have come to an understanding of the name revealed to Moses on Mt.Sinai, we are not exact on the actual pronounciation. Even so, I wished to emphasize on the letters themselves YHWH. Each letter has a symbol, meaning and value. If you do the math it states “BEHOLD THE HAND , BEHOLD THE NAIL”. We know that Jesus’ hands and feet were pierced with a nail.

Furthermore, Saint Thomas the Apostle doubted Jesus’ resurrection but when he saw Jesus resurrected he proclaimed “My Lord and my God” on seeing Jesus in John 20:28.

Of course there are many more scriptures which support that Yeshuah (Jesus) is God. This name alone means God is salvation. Emmanuelle is God is with us. These are the two names attributed to Our Lord.

God Bless

finishing the last point:

The word VaYar is usually translated as “He saw,” in the causative (hifil), which can, therefore, be translated as “He made seen” or “He brought into existence.” Thus, when God said (i.e., He willed), “Let there be light,” and “VaYar Elokim,” He brought this light into being. He made it visible. So, upon willing the existence of the land and the waters, the luminaries and the grass and the animals, He made them visible, He called them into existence. As scripture states in Genesis, God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light and God saw that the light was good

The “the seal of God is truth,”(the “seal” of God is truth. (Sanhedrin 64) ) Jesus came bearing God’s seal – so Christ (the Messiah) came in truth (John 6, John 14:6). The final letters of the three words that conclude the account of creation – bara Elohim la’asot (“God created to do” [Genesis 2:3] - the Shabbat)-- and spell emet (truth) so God created the universe in – justice, truth and peace (and God saw that the light was good (Ki Tov) pure or perfect…the first day.)

The adjective “eternal” applied to life (God’s word - John 5:39, John 6:32), therefore, means not only its endless duration after bodily death. It also signifies a share in God’s own life, which is eternal because it is His life, uniquely His own.

Time and again the Scriptures not only speak of God as eternal. but identify Him as God because He alone in the absolute sense is eternal. Thus Abraham is said to have “invoked Yahweh, the Everlasting God” (Genesis 21:33). “He created the heavens and the earth. Although they wear out, He remains what He is and His years are never finished” (Psalm 102:26 – 28). The adjective “eternal” (Greek = Aionios) is applied to God to signify the kind of existence that transcends time (Romans 16:26).

 

[MorningSong51]

Right, as this also proves another point, I am the Aleph and the Omega - the beginning and the end. Revelation 1:8 “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." and also read in verse 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last. (the beginning and the end, KJV)

When we recite the The Nicene Creed – Apostle’s Creed at mass, the first line states “Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem, Creatorem caeli et terrae, - We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, Maker of all that is, seen and unseen. ” we are professing a truth that God is the maker of all things that seen and unseen and we acknowledge it verbally outloud but (again) we must internal believe this. The word “We believe” – and when we say “amen” , John 6:35 – that is a confirmation or an acknowledgment of that truth. “Bereisheet bara Elohim”, “In [the] Beginning, Elohim created the Heavens and the Earth”, we also find truth.

The pope wrote an article, and within this article, he states “True enough: faith’s vision embraces heaven and earth; past, present and future; eternity – and so it can never be fully exhausted. And yet, deep down, it is quite simple. The Lord Himself tells us so when He says to the Father: “you have revealed these things to the simple – to those able to see with their hearts” (cf. Mt 11:25). The questionings to what is truth? or what can we know? And how can we understand these truths within us, to bring light/and also nourishment to the soul? (“we know that in the Greek/Western conception, truth (aletheia) is a property generally ascribed to linguistic states: a proposition p is true if and only if p obtains in the (empirical/observable) world.“) So in other words, and that thought, …we see and so it must be the truth – or it is and so we believe?

Reference:

How To Become God’s Partner In Creation
jewishpress.com/pageroute.do/36744/

GOD, NAMES OF: jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0007_0_07449.html

Hebrew Word of the Week hebrew4christians.com/Glossary/Word_of_the_Week/Archived/Emet/emet.html

Pope Benedict XVI –
The Apostles’ Creed adoremus.org/1106ApostlesCreed.html
What do we believe? We believe in God, who is the Beginning and End of human life.

Part One:The Apostles’ Creed 12.“Life Everlasting”
“God is the Alpha and the Omega – the first and the last letters of the Greek alphabet – because He is from everlasting unto everlasting (Revelation 1:8). He alone is without beginning because He always existed, and without end, because He will always exist.” therealpresence.org/essentials/creed/acc13.htm

Pope Benedict: philvaz.com/apologetics/p81.htm
“In the Beginning…” : A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall (Eerdmans, 1986, 1995) A commentary on Genesis 1-3 by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (English translation by Boniface Ramsey)
God the Creator;“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth…”

Per quote, The Apostles’ Creed adoremus.org/1106ApostlesCreed.html
What do we believe? We believe in God, who is the Beginning and End of human life

“We believe in God – in God, who is the Beginning and End of human life. We believe in a God who enters into a relationship with us human beings, who is our origin and our future. Consequently, faith is, always and inseparably, hope: the certainty that we have a future and will not end up as nothing. And faith is love, since God’s love is “contagious”. This is the first thing: we simply believe in God, and this brings with it hope and love.”

 

[happyhippo]

Hello to all,

Re: the banning of Arius!

My brother (log in name Arius) has asked me to pass on a message, to readers in a couple of posts, in that he has been banned from the forum! He says that he was banned for supposedly showing disrespect for Catholics and Catholicism, which he vehemently denies!

He said that he wanted the readers to know, that in his replies to JW opposers, he has consistently provided empirical evidence to refute their criticisms and now, (he said) he is unable to defend himself or other JW’s and feels the Moderators were too harsh, and biased, as they and other Catholics could not take anymore empirical evidence against them, so now people lile Big Dummy et al, have free reign to say as they wish without any one to “check their lies and half truths” “so be it” he said, “as this is all too typical of Trinitarians when empirical truth is brought to bear, even when their own scholars expose them for their blind ignorance and blatant bias”!

He said he only came over to this forum, because I asked him to, which is true, as I wanted some of my Catholic brothers and sisters to asist me, as I am unable to match him, he said, “it was like talking to petulant immature children, who thought they knew a thing or two and that the only thing they knew, was they that they didn’t know, they didn’t didn’t know”!

Do you think he has made a point?

He has asked ‘Letusreason’ to join in his place, what do you think?

Happyhippo

 

[T_More]

Hello to all,

Re: the banning of Arius!

My brother (log in name Arius) has asked me to pass on a message, to readers in a couple of posts, in that he has been banned from the forum! He says that he was banned for supposedly showing disrespect for Catholics and Catholicism, which he vehemently denies!

He said that he wanted the readers to know, that in his replies to JW opposers, he has consistently provided empirical evidence to refute their criticisms and now, (he said) he is unable to defend himself or other JW’s and feels the Moderators were too harsh, and biased, as they and other Catholics could not take anymore empirical evidence against them, so now people lile Big Dummy et al, have free reign to say as they wish without any one to “check their lies and half truths” “so be it” he said, “as this is all too typical of Trinitarians when empirical truth is brought to bear, even when their own scholars expose them for their blind ignorance and blatant bias”!

He said he only came over to this forum, because I asked him to, which is true, as I wanted some of my Catholic brothers and sisters to asist me, as I am unable to match him, he said, “it was like talking to petulant immature children, who thought they knew a thing or two and that the only thing they knew, was they that they didn’t know, they didn’t didn’t know”!

Do you think he has made a point?

He has asked ‘Letusreason’ to join in his place, what do you think?

Happyhippo

Religion can bring out all kinds of emotions when someone is convinced that they have truth.

Your brother made some very snarky remarks to people which anyone here can go back and read. Did others do the same? I don’t know, I was only concerned with my conversations with him, but I suppose they too can be read should anyone want to read them. As for me, I will say “mea culpa”.

Your brother would not answer, after repeatedly being asked by me on multiple threads, where the faithful & discreet slave was before Charles Taze Russell came along. I know he can’t, but the magisterium or “governing body” of his religion, claims that the faithful & discreet slave (the governing body of JW’s) has been around for 19 centuries, but can’t/won’t idenitify it. Why? It’s very simple. It all comes down to legitimate authority ordained by Christ Himself. Even the JW’s recognize this, which is why they claim the slave has been around for 19 centuries. If you can’t prove ordination that was described in the book of Acts, for instance, than you have no rightful claim, no matter how good you think you know the bible.

Anyone can say they have truth, and in the 19th century, many often claimed this. William Miller, Joseph Smith, Ellen Gould White and on and on, and of course, Charles Taze Russell. Yet none of them can show their legitimate connection to early Christianity. In the JW’s case, it’s quite the opposite. None of the early Christian writings show any kind of theological similiarities to the JW’s during any time of their short existence. Why do I say short existence? Because Russell did not hold the same beliefs as Rutherford, his successor, and this true even today. The beliefs today differ from even 50 years ago. so it’s a moving target. And yet none of them, NONE of them show any similiarity to the writings of the disciples who were taught and ordained by the Apostles themselves. And yet we do have an entity today that does reflect these teachings that has endured for almost 2000 years, fulfilling Christ’s promise of never being overcome by Satan. I’ll give you one guess who that is.

Jesus Christ promised that His Chruch/congregation would endure and never be overcome, it would be led into all truth and He would be with it until the end of time. The bible speaks about those that would fall away from amongst the Church, but never speaks about the whole Church being corrupted. Anyone who is honest and unbiased can plainly see that this was the Catholic Church.

I wish your brother could’ve stayed, so we could have shared with him the beauty of the CC and it’s deep meanings. I wish him the best and I have prayed for him the last few days. Hang in there happy hippo! History and Christ’s Church are on your side!

 

[JesuisSean]

Is Jesus God?

Why don’t you just ask him.
First watch the Video such that I.D. is comfirmed.

outersecrets.com/real/the_full_intro.htm

Don’t forget to search for the answers concerning these infinitely important codes as well.

 

[StevenFrancis]

I have always been under the impression that according to Catholic doctrine as described by the various creeds, including the Athanasian, that Jesus Christ IS God.

I am in a discussion with a lapsed Catholic who is adamant that while Jesus is the SON of God, he is not, in fact, God, and neither is the Holy Spirit for that matter. They do regard them as part of the trinity (which is bizarre given their other stance), but not as God.

Yes He is. (I’ll save you all the individual scripture quotes - I’m sure others will post several of them). I’ll just say, that Jesus said He was, and if Jesus isn’t a liar, then He is. If Jesus is a liar, then we’re all spinning our wheels anyway.

And you’re right, if a person has any kind of a grasp on the trinity at all, (even though I know it’s a concept that no man can master), then the holdings of your friends are indeed bizarre, but certainly not rare.

Who do people say the Son of Man is?

Who do YOU say the Son of Man is?

Here’s who He says He is:

Before Abraham was, I AM.

Blessings,

Steven

 

[Fink]

Hello to all,

Re: the banning of Arius!

My brother (log in name Arius) has asked me to pass on a message, to readers in a couple of posts, in that he has been banned from the forum! He says that he was banned for supposedly showing disrespect for Catholics and Catholicism, which he vehemently denies!

Just smug superiority!

He said that he wanted the readers to know, that in his replies to JW opposers, he has consistently provided empirical evidence to refute their criticisms and now, (he said) …

…their blind ignorance and blatant bias"!

He said he only came over to this forum, because I asked him to, which is true, as I wanted some of my Catholic brothers and sisters to asist me, as I am unable to match him, he said, “it was like talking to petulant immature children, who thought they knew a thing or two and that the only thing they knew, was they that they didn’t know, they didn’t didn’t know”!

Breathtaking lies!

Do you think he has made a point?

He`s made a point, all right; but not in the way he intended!

He has asked ’Letusreason’ to join in his place, what do you think?

Good name:
“Let us use purely HUMAN reason, using the NWT.”?

Your brother came across as very superior/condescending. Thats typical of the door-knockers, as well. Theyre used to encountering folks who know nothing; and don`t like it when challenged.

Is he an ex-Catholic?

There are heaps of times when i wish that offensive anti-Catholics were not banned; but instead were allowed to expose themselves in all of their smug self-assurance, and then be er… dismembered?.. by able Catholics. That way, they wouldn`t be able to claim that they were banned because they were too good for us.
Observers - Catholic and non-Catholic - would be able to see the goings-on.

Did you take note of that book: “Theology and Sanity”?

Also, a work i was told about only a few days ago:
thesumma.info/reality/index.php

Just scroll down a bit.

This stuff`s vital!

The issue can`t be thrashed out using Scripture alone!

 

[jcrichton]

Hello to all,

Re: the banning of Arius!

My brother (log in name Arius) has asked me to pass on a message, to readers in a couple of posts, in that he has been banned from the forum! He says that he was banned for supposedly showing disrespect for Catholics and Catholicism, which he vehemently denies!

He said that he wanted the readers to know, that in his replies to JW opposers, he has consistently provided empirical evidence to refute their criticisms and now, (he said) he is unable to defend himself or other JW’s and feels the Moderators were too harsh, and biased, as they and other Catholics could not take anymore empirical evidence against them, so now people lile Big Dummy et al, have free reign to say as they wish without any one to “check their lies and half truths” “so be it” he said, “as this is all too typical of Trinitarians when empirical truth is brought to bear, even when their own scholars expose them for their blind ignorance and blatant bias”!

He said he only came over to this forum, because I asked him to, which is true, as I wanted some of my Catholic brothers and sisters to asist me, as I am unable to match him, he said, “it was like talking to petulant immature children, who thought they knew a thing or two and that the only thing they knew, was they that they didn’t know, they didn’t didn’t know”!

Do you think he has made a point?

He has asked ‘Letusreason’ to join in his place, what do you think?

Happyhippo

…yeah, he has made a point… a point of insulting what he does not understand… a point of insulting those who belief differently… a point of demonstrating that he thinks (ergo his denominational affiliation) he is wise (we all know what Yahweh God thinks about the wise of this world!)… a point of pretending to be seeking the Truth while claiming to be a true… a point of being antagonistic while claiming to be seeking peace… a point of using others to further his hatred of what he does not understand… a point of beating up on those who he think are weak or unable to counter his attacks… a point of relying on ego instead of seeking humble assistance from the Holy Spirit…

I would offer engage him at his own site if I thought that he (or any of the misguided members of his sect) would honor studying the Sacred Scriptures in order to truly find God in His Fullness; however, it has been my experience that people as your brother are not seeking to serve Christ but rather are being used by Satan to confuse and obscure the weak and ignorant (lacking Faith and knowledge of the Holy Scriptures)… they are the new Pharisees who are bent on not entering the Kingdom of God as well as keeping others from the Truth: Christ is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the Eternal One: the One that Was, Is, and Will Be!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Jkimbo]

I accept the Trinity doctrine and understand it is for the most part a Mystery.

I have no problem separating God the Father and God the Son,

I have the greatest difficulty in separating God the Father and God the Holy Spirit,

I mean what’s the difference? God is spirit and the Holy Spirit is spirit

Is God the Father NOT spirit? And if not, What is God The Father?

 

[Fink]

I have the greatest difficulty in separating God the Father and God the Holy Spirit,

I mean what’s the difference? God is spirit and the Holy Spirit is spirit

Is God the Father NOT spirit? And if not, What is God The Father?

God the Father is Spirit; and His Selfknowledge is God the Son: “Of one Being [essence/nature] with the Father.”: Nicene Creed.
Remember that by its very nature or essence, spirit doesn`t occupy Space.

God the Father is Existence Itself; and possesses the totality of the Godhead.
God the Father knows HImself totally. Everything that He is is contained in His Selfknowledge: ie
God the Son possesses the totality of the Godhead.
The Father and the Son give Themselves totally to each other in one eternal act of Self-giving Love.
That Love is the Holy Spirit.

Because Father and Son give Themselves TOTALLY to each other,
the Holy Spirit also possesses the totality of the Godhead.
Remembering that God is “only” (non-material) Spirit, there`s no puzzle of how three distinct Persons can occupy the same space.

The Father GENERATES the Son in eternity.
The Father and the Son BREATHE or SPIRATE the Holy Spirit in eternity: ie
We can say that the Holy Spirit is the BREATH of God;
and, in that sense, the word “Spirit” has a different meaning when referring to Him. Romantically, we can sort of think of the Holy Spirit as a lover`s sigh!
1 John 4:8 says: “God is Love.”

[The word “Person”, when referring to the Blessed Trinity, has a meaning thats different from when its applied to ourselves. The only reason for bringing that up is: i once heard a priest refer to the three Persons as “People”! And it wasn`t just a slip of the tongue!]

 

[Jkimbo]

Still not clear to me, please correct me if wrong. As I said, I do understand God the Father and God the Son and have no trouble separating them. My difficulty lies in separating God the Father and God the Holy Spirit as Their essence seems to be the SAME, Spirit.

Follow me on my perspective?

I understand the Trinity to be three distinct persons from One God, I can easily separate these Persons of the Father and Son. But the Holy Spirit just seems like another description of God the Father to me.

The closes I can come to separating them is as follow and correct me if I’m wrong. Please forgive any gnostic sounding terms.

God the Father can be considered as the First Principal, or that which no one can ever know or understand, accept the Holy Spirit. It is through the Holy Spirit that God makes Himself Known. Holy Spirit being the Action of God, or manifestation needed to make Himself Known.

So in a sense, the Holy Spirit is the Second Principal of God, or manifestation. God the Son Being the third Principal or manifestation of God.

So God the Father is actually Beyond the concept of spirit, which The Holy Spirit is. Since we could never know the Mind of God we could never comprehend what God the Father is, only through the Holy Spirit and the Son can we Know God.

I can sort of understand that except then there is the problem of the holy spirit in lower case, the apostles where filled with holy spirit, the gift of holy spirit. If that is not the Holy Spirit, the Second part of the Trinity, why is it not in caps in some readings?

For me the greatest difficulty has always been regarding the Holy Spirit and the Father, this has not stopped me from accepting and believing in the Trinity as I honestly feel we being mere mortals can probably not even come close to fully understanding this Great Mystery.

So how far off am I and can you provide more helpful insight for me regarding this issue. Thank you!

 

[jcrichton]

I accept the Trinity doctrine and understand it is for the most part a Mystery.

I have no problem separating God the Father and God the Son,

I have the greatest difficulty in separating God the Father and God the Holy Spirit,

I mean what’s the difference? God is spirit and the Holy Spirit is spirit

Is God the Father NOT spirit? And if not, What is God The Father?

…it is a Mystery… the only way to understand it is through Faith:

Jesus revealed that there would be Three who would abide/live in the Believers: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (St. John 14, 16); He states that those who Believe in Him would obey His Commandment (St. John 15:1-10)–and it is in response to that relationship that the Holy Spirit, the other Paraclete, will Come and abide/live in the Believer (not in those of the world since the world did not Believe/Accept Jesus).

Further, we have the most excellent example of the existence of the Holy Trinity as it is revealed in St. Luke:

21 Now it came to pass, when all the people were baptized, that Jesus also being baptized and praying, heaven was opened. 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape, as a dove, upon him. And a voice came from heaven: Thou art my beloved Son. In thee I am well pleased. (St. Luke 3:31-22–DRV)

This convergeance of the Holy Trinity allows us to see that there are two very specific Witnesses to Christ’s Divinity as the Father Accliams Him and the Holy Spirit Annoints Him!

Since Yahweh God is Spirit, and Eternal, and Immutable there was never a time when the Three Divine Persons did not exist… this is further attested to by Jesus as He Commands:

19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. (St. Matthew 28:19–DRV)

…interstingly enough, there are two passages in Scriptures where Jesus tells the Father that He has Revealed/Manifested His Name to His Disciples and that He will continue to Reveal it (St. John 17:6, 26)… in my understanding that (Mt. 28:19) is the Name! There’s no separating the Three from their existence as the Divine–yet, the the One God has chosen to Reveal Himself as three equal and distinct Divine Persons.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Still not clear to me, please correct me if wrong. As I said, I do understand God the Father and God the Son and have no trouble separating them. My difficulty lies in separating God the Father and God the Holy Spirit as Their essence seems to be the SAME, Spirit.

Follow me on my perspective?

I understand the Trinity to be three distinct persons from One God, I can easily separate these Persons of the Father and Son. But the Holy Spirit just seems like another description of God the Father to me.

The closes I can come to separating them is as follow and correct me if I’m wrong. Please forgive any gnostic sounding terms.

God the Father can be considered as the First Principal, or that which no one can ever know or understand, accept the Holy Spirit. It is through the Holy Spirit that God makes Himself Known. Holy Spirit being the Action of God, or manifestation needed to make Himself Known.

So in a sense, the Holy Spirit is the Second Principal of God, or manifestation. God the Son Being the third Principal or manifestation of God.

So God the Father is actually Beyond the concept of spirit, which The Holy Spirit is. Since we could never know the Mind of God we could never comprehend what God the Father is, only through the Holy Spirit and the Son can we Know God.

I can sort of understand that except then there is the problem of the holy spirit in lower case, the apostles where filled with holy spirit, the gift of holy spirit. If that is not the Holy Spirit, the Second part of the Trinity, why is it not in caps in some readings?

For me the greatest difficulty has always been regarding the Holy Spirit and the Father, this has not stopped me from accepting and believing in the Trinity as I honestly feel we being mere mortals can probably not even come close to fully understanding this Great Mystery.

So how far off am I and can you provide more helpful insight for me regarding this issue. Thank you!

…I think that that’s part of the problem that the Jehovah Witnesses have: they need to see the Father as this Majestic above all; Jesus as a subservient go-getter; the Holy Spirit as a power used by the Majestic to make things happen…

The problem is that God is Spirit (non-corporeal; extra everything Being), ditto Christ, the Son, and ditto the Holy Spirit (the Thrid Manifestation of God); they are all equally Eternal and Immutable and Omnipotent (and all the other Omni-existence).

Instead of thinking of the various revelations of God as distinct in function of a hierarchy (a problem that would go against Scriptures as it is revealed that Yahweh God is the Creator but that Jesus is the Creator; yet, the Holy Spirit is the Creator–and remember about the various Titles and Names specific only to the Father (OT) but transferred to the Son (NT) and the Holy Spirit (NT as retrospect of OT)… and the conundrum of the Son Risen by the Father, by the Holy Spirit, by Himself…), again, instead of thinking of a hiwrarchy, when it comes to God, think of it rather as with the US office of the Presidency: though one man he wears the hat which is appropriate at the given time…

…a thought provoking query: how is it that when the Virgin Mary and Joseph were told that the Child, Jesus, was to be Conceived by the Power of the Holy Spirit there was no hesitation nor a slew of question about this “Holy Spirit?”

Maran atha!

Angel