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skyryder
Guest
Having worked with teens I disagree with the statement that kids are becoming more traditional. Indeed it is the opposite. Suggest looking at the book UnChristian which is a survey done by a national research firm. Yes there are Young Republicans who attend traditional Catholic Latin Mass. But this is a minority. God will give victory to the Liberals once the current pope dies.
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fix
Guest
Such things have been said for centuries. Those folks have all gone, and the Church is still here teaching as She always taught.
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ToddM
Guest
Jeremiah 7
Has this house which bears my name become in your eyes a den of thieves? I too see what is being done, says the LORD.
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3 You may go to Shiloh, which I made the dwelling place of my name in the beginning. See what I did to it because of the wickedness of my people Israel.
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And now, because you have committed all these misdeeds, says the LORD, because you did not listen, though I spoke to you untiringly; because you did not answer, though I called you,
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I will do to this house named after me, in which you trust, and to this place which I gave to you and your fathers, just as I did to Shiloh.
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I will cast you away from me, as I cast away all your brethren, all the offspring of Ephraim.
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You, now, do not intercede for this people; raise not in their behalf a pleading prayer! Do not urge me, for I will not listen to you.
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Do you not see what they are doing in the cities of Judah, in the streets of Jerusalem?
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4 The children gather wood, their fathers light the fire, and the women knead dough to make cakes for the queen of heaven, while libations are poured out to strange gods in order to hurt me.
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Is it I whom they hurt, says the LORD; is it not rather themselves, to their own confusion?
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See now, says the Lord GOD, my anger and my wrath will pour out upon this place, upon man and beast, upon the trees of the field and the fruits of the earth; it will burn without being quenched.
2nd Kings
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This came about because the Israelites sinned against the LORD, their God, who had brought them up from the land of Egypt, from under the domination of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and because they venerated other gods.
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They followed the rites of the nations whom the LORD had cleared out of the way of the Israelites (and the kings of Israel whom they set up).
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They adopted unlawful practices toward the LORD, their God. They built high places in all their settlements, the watchtowers as well as the walled cities.
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They set up pillars and sacred poles for themselves on every high hill and under every leafy tree.
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There, on all the high places, they burned incense like the nations whom the LORD had sent into exile at their coming. They did evil things that provoked the LORD,
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and served idols, although the LORD had told them, “You must not do this.”
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And though the LORD warned Israel and Judah by every prophet and seer, “Give up your evil ways and keep my commandments and statutes, in accordance with the entire law which I enjoined on your fathers and which I sent you by my servants the prophets,”
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they did not listen, but were as stiff-necked as their fathers, who had not believed in the LORD, their God.
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They rejected his statutes, the covenant which he had made with their fathers, and the warnings which he had given them. The vanity they pursued, they themselves became: they followed the surrounding nations whom the LORD had commanded them not to imitate.
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They disregarded all the commandments of the LORD, their God, and made for themselves two molten calves; they also made a sacred pole and worshiped all the host of heaven, and served Baal.
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They immolated their sons and daughters by fire, practiced fortune-telling and divination, and sold themselves into evil doing in the LORD’S sight, provoking him
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till, in his great anger against Israel, the LORD put them away out of his sight. Only the tribe of Judah was left.
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Even the people of Judah, however, did not keep the commandments of the LORD, their God, but followed the rites practiced by Israel.
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Joe_5859
Guest
I would agree that as a whole the younger generation is not necessarily becoming more traditional. However, those younger people who tend toward liberalism are more likely to either leave the Church, or not bother getting involved (not to mention how unlikely it is they would pursue a religious vocation). The vast majority of the seminarians, new priests, new sisters, and lay catechetical leaders under the age of 40 are more “traditional” (i.e. they actually believe and teach what the Church actually teaches).
Don’t take my word for it, though. Read the work of sociologist James D. Davidson of Purdue University. He is himself a “progressive” Catholic, but his research has shown that the new generation of Church leaders is far more traditional. Read his article Mind the Gap in the November 23, 2007 issue of Commonweal (You have to have to have a subscription to view the article, but maybe you do
).Or if you want to do your own informal study, go to an NCCL conference and take a poll of those there that are in leadership positions that are in their 20’s, 30’s and 40’s versus those that are in their 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. You’ll plainly see the gap that Davidson writes about.
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Roger_Wissinger
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After seeing the Potato Head Mass video and the other video from Joan of Arc parish, I can’t help but feel sorry for those people that see nothing wrong with this mass. They have blinders on their eyes and their hearts are hardened by this trash. I see new age and some ill educated Catholics trying to entertain people. I couldn’t finish watching the video due to making me feel ill. About the talk of being conservative or liberal, first and foremost I’m a Catholic. Then I’m an American who has serviced this country in the military. Then I’m a Republican… My faith in Jesus Christ comes first before all. My family, friends, country, the Republican Party, and even I come second. My faith shapes the way I think about some issues and how see things. My issues on immigration, death penalty, and others have changed due to my studying my faith daily and praying. I see some of our brothers and sisters in the faith turning their backs on Rome. Trying to start the American Catholic Church. This is what I see has being liberal. Also some wrote in this forum that God will give victory to the Liberals once the current pope dies. Wow, I find this statement repugnant repulsive, and absurd. Please fall down on your knees and pray for his church and the pope. I love both of them dearly.
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Roger_Wissinger
Guest
I’m in agreement with someone else that posted that skyryder is not Catholic. After reading the post it sounds that he’s for gay marriage, pro-pornography, pro-abortion, anti-pope and anti-Catholic Church. He needs to stop watching so much CNN and back to the real world.I think conservatives need to focus less on rules and more on who God really is. If God is a reasoning, loving, and freeing person…then some of the crazy ideas advanced by the Catholic Right need to be reconsidered.
Would a God who designed a balanced eco system promote unlimited population growth? No…so Humane Vitae’s ban on birth control is wrong.
Would a rational and loving God predispose some people to be gay deep in the core of their being, and then damn them for expressing love, or seeking a life long partner? Doesn’t seem reasonable.
Would a God say priests can marry in Paul’s Letters to Timothy and then ban it years later. If God can’t lie, perhaps self appointed leaders do, for selfish ends.
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Would a reasoning God give liberty and deny it’s use in free speech or exploration of new ideas without censorhip?
Would a loving God allow Crusades, and Inquistion to punish enemies or people a Church doen’t like? I thought Scripture said
Love your enemies and do good to persecutors.
Would a God create all men as equals and then deny that equality in the form of a dictatorial church government? No again.
If only God is infallible (because he is infinite) there is no way a finite man can be infallible by definition.
Like many Catholics I feel the church’s position on abortion, in vitro fertilization and stem cell research needs to be updated to square with scientific fact. Is a single living cell a person? No way.
This is all or nothing thinking and is a classical sign of neurosis.
Please remember that quickening was looked at as the time of ensoulment by the Ancient Church, prior to that no soul.
Would a creative God give men artistic, musical or literary gifts and then ban them from worship because the Pope doesn’t like them. Seems contrary to his nature.
The conservatives need to rething their credo from the ground up.
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Ender
Guest
At its heart, heterodoxy is irrational. If one does not believe what the Church teaches then it makes no sense to belong. Once you have jettisoned the belief that the Church teaches the word of God and believe instead that she teaches merely the word of a few guys in pointy hats, why believe any of it? It is inevitable that those who reject the divine basis for Church teachings will eventually reject the Church as irrelevant … leaving her to those who “actually believe” what she teaches.
Ender
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Joe_5859
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Exactly!
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edwest2
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The poisoning of the Body of Christ began in the late 1960s. Catholic Universities began to cut their ties with local Catholic dioceses in the 1970s as well. That’s when problems in seminaries began. The younger generation is seeing the manifest evil fruit of the older generation and the Holy Spirit of God is pouring out his love to them. Pope John Paul II and now, Pope Benedict, are instituting the necessary corrective measures.
Belonging to a political group or ideology is not necessary for entering God’s kingdom.
God bless,
ED
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NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
It goes in cycles, if you read about the younger days of the priests that were around in the 60’s when Vatican II came about, many started off as very conservative, but as they grew older became more open to variances and saw that the Church was not rigid and calcified and the real hart of the Church are the people. It is still the differences in paradigms, does the Church serve the people (considered “liberal” by many) or do the people serve the Church (considered “conservative” by many)?
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skyryder
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skyryder
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I will pray for your conversion!
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AmyS
Guest
I agree 100%. I feel that my generation, which is the children the 1960 1970 generation, have learned a lot from the prior generation and are teaching our children different. In my generation you find people who lean towards being more orthodox, or they have left the Church all together. I never knew much about my faith until I was in my early 20s. I had to teach myself. I make sure my daughter knows everything I know.
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AmyS
Guest
This is one of the worst things I have ever read on this forum.
LONG LIVE POPE BENEDICT!
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skyryder
Guest
To quote Buddha: “When you take your shoes off to enter the temple, don’t leave common sense behind as well.” Popes are
often wrong. It is up for each person to examine scripture or teachings, take what makes sense, and leave the rest.Remember
that according to the Council of Constance (*check it out on the web) a democratically elected body of laity is the highest governing body of the church as it is the living presence of the Holy Spirit.The Council of Constance as you recall, fired three popes, excommunicated cardinals and bishops, overturned dogma etc. and elected a new pope on their own. John Neuman in the last century proclaimed the Infallibility of the Laity. And it was on this basis that the Immaculate Conception was established. Vatican I painted the church into a corner. We need a second Council of Constance to clean up the mess created by conservatives in the Vatican. An adult faith is a questioning and reasoning faith. Blind submission to authority is magic and superstition. Turn off Mother Angelica reruns and get real.
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skyryder
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ToddM
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One doesn’t ‘convert’ to an initial state. You are speaking of perversion, you know it.I will pray for your conversion!
(RSV)
Mat 18:13-20
[13] And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray.
[14] So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
[15] “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.
[16] But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses.
[17] If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
[18] Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
[19] Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.
[20] For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”
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skyryder
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The “Poisoning of the Church” started under Pius XII not John XXIII
Pius was a disgrace. He signed the Concordat with the Nazi, supported war by the Germans against the Russians and caused many deaths. Pius made many millions spying for both the Axis and Allies. The Angel Pope played both sides to his advantage and jumped on the winning team when the time was right. In the words of Watergate: Follow the money! At the turn of the 20th century the Vatican was broke, 45 years later it was one of the biggest holders of gold reserves in the world and a major player in international currency exchange. Much of the Nazi’s gold can be traced to concentration camps… Vatican II was a mass rebellion against the rigidity, secrecy, and autocracy of Pius XII. The Americans, Russians, Germans, English have all opened there secret WWII archieves to scholars. The only body which hasn’t is the Vatican. It has a lot to hide! Saint Dietrich:Bonhoeffer pray for us!:
Pius was a disgrace. He signed the Concordat with the Nazi, supported war by the Germans against the Russians and caused many deaths. Pius made many millions spying for both the Axis and Allies. The Angel Pope played both sides to his advantage and jumped on the winning team when the time was right. In the words of Watergate: Follow the money! At the turn of the 20th century the Vatican was broke, 45 years later it was one of the biggest holders of gold reserves in the world and a major player in international currency exchange. Much of the Nazi’s gold can be traced to concentration camps… Vatican II was a mass rebellion against the rigidity, secrecy, and autocracy of Pius XII. The Americans, Russians, Germans, English have all opened there secret WWII archieves to scholars. The only body which hasn’t is the Vatican. It has a lot to hide! Saint Dietrich:Bonhoeffer pray for us!:
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edwest2
Guest
Go ahead, play the nazi card. In the end, God will not be mocked. No, all the archives have not been opened. As a historian, I know.
God bless,
Ed
God bless,
Ed
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