Is Liberal Catholicism Dead?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Filius99993
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Roy5 said:
LIBERAL CATHOLICISM WILL WIN OUT

I would rather avoid the word liberal because it can be a loaded term that attracts or repels without free discussion.

Catholicism is at the crossroads. It can hold fast to old traditions and gradually die off because it increasingly alienates those who are well-educated and think for themselves. Or, it can make adjustments to the world as it is. This isn’t compromise. It is the sort of flexibility that will keep the Church alive. Otherwise it will eventually become a relic of medievalism.

There are some wonderful progressive forces within Catholicism. I saw Colman McCarthy the other day on C-Span. Superb and saintly man. I read Commonweal and other periodicals that speak for those within the Church who value the free mind and pay less attention to petty issues of theology - how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

What needs to be done? Basically, Catholicism need to adopt a ‘big-tent’ approach. Who really knows and understands all the mysteries of the world? None of us. Forgive me, but not even any Pope. The Church needs to permit different viewpoints. For example, I can’t believe in the traditional view of communion - transubstantiation, bread and wine becoming flesh and blood of Christ. The medieval mind had no problem with it. It also was quick to accept ghosts, witches and such. Some of the miracles attributed to Jesus and Mary are - sorry - doubtful at best. Why does the Church insist that every good Catholic accepts all these debatable doctrines?

And the same is true re some practices. The required celibacy of priests is against the first commandment: be fruitful and multiply. Why rob healthy, normal men of healthy, normal relationships? And eventually we need to have women priests, regardless of what Benedict XVI recently stated.

The spirit of democracy is consistent with the modern mind. The Church had better recognize this and respond with major changes or it will die. Oh, I know. Most of you are convinced that God won’t let that happen. Don’t be so sure. If the Church can’t bring itself to make necessary adjustments God can choose other ways to do his will.
Click to expand...
So basically Catholicism needs to become protestant. I think not.
 
catharina said:
For any who might care, when will you be announcing the name of your “other” religion - and adding the name to your public profile? So far, all I’m getting is the idea that you have founded “skyryder’s community.” Who is the “we” that you say must do as you say in the sentences above? What “we” is that?
Click to expand...
Again, I am NOT A CONSERVATIVE. Catholics do not need to be conservatives. I am a progressive.
 
skyryder said:
Again, I am NOT A CONSERVATIVE. Catholics do not need to be conservatives. I am a progressive.
Click to expand...
Hello?

I’m not asking for your political or financial views.
I’m asking what is your RELIGION?

So far, in your profile, you have stated “other” - so I ask that you be more specific. OK?
 
una_fides said:
“Secular” classes also have an agenda. It’s called anti-religion and anti-Catholic.

Again, you demonstrate that you are not Catholic, and your hostility towards the Catholic faith seems to progress and grow with each of your posts.
So you think the Papacy was an invention? Perhaps you would think that this falls under the category of “Medieval inventions” as you also label the dogma of the Real Presence. For someone who claims to embrace truths, you have not done a lot of homework on this regard. The position of Peter and his successors is clear from the early Church fathers. I would post many quotes for you, but again you have not demonstrated any openness to anything anyone has posted on here and instead seem to be promulgating a liberal agenda to attack and destroy all that is sacred to the Catholic faith. If liberals really wanted to embrace truth, they would be Catholic. In reality, liberals reject truth in favor of their own personal anti-religious views. They reject teachings on sin and death and change Christ’s gospel message. Anything that does not fit within their agenda within Scripture they discredit and throw out.

The early Church did not “destroy” the records of all the teachings they opposed and in fact we have many records of the heresies in the early Church. None of these dissenting groups, however, could be considered the equivalent of liberal Catholicism, although they would all share in common a rejection of Tradition. The reason the Catholic Church is the Catholic Church is due to the fact that it has Tradition. If you reject Tradition, then you are not Catholic. You may be some form of protestant or other dissenting group but you cannot claim to be part of the Catholic Church when you manifestly reject her teachings.
Click to expand...
I guess we agree to disagree.

Yes the Early Church destroyed records wholesale…you might want to check out the time of Emporer Theodosius II. Christians sacked pagan temples, and burned some of the great centers of education in the world including The Library of Alexandria. They exterminated Gnostics Sophians, Valentinians, Cathar and Manichaean and Ebonites. Review critical analysis of Ebusius Writings. The history of Early Christianity was deliberately tampered with.

You need to broaden the books you read. Instead of reading OUR GLORIOUS POPES from the 1920s. Read THE DARK SIDE OF THE PAPACY by DeRosa from the mid 1980s. Reality is probably somewhere between the 2 extremes. The papacy has committed just about every sin against the 10 commandments which could be invented. It is a very human institution with a heroic status it doesn’t deserve… We have had 20 plus homosexual popes. We have had numberous popes who had sexual orgies,concubines, illegitimate children that were cardinals, whores that were painted as saints, drug addicts, alcoholics etc. We have had many murderers, many war criminals, pedophiles and the Hit Parade just keeps on coming. I seriously doubt that the Holy Spirit would have much to do with people like that, yet Traditionalists and Conservatives insist the Papacy be put on a pedestal. I would also think that any moral teachings from such individuals would be highly suspect. I find it intersting for example that the conservatives shout about obeying Humane Vitae yet forget that abortion was legalized by Popes during the Renaissance.

Facts are facts. Truth is truth. We are not destroying the Faith by pointing out things that don’t make sense or challenging false beliefs. The church would have greater credibility in the Modern World by openly admitting errors and embracing traditions which are real. Several examples: The Church of St Peters in the Vatican claims to have bones of Peter. Across town at St John Lateran, a second tomb of Peter with bones exists. They guy had two bodies, Right? Same for relics of the True Cross. You could built a forest from these artifacts. The Holy Prepuce, or Relic of Jesus Foreskin seems like a bad joke from Satuday Night Live.
 
catharina said:
Hello?

I’m not asking for your political or financial views.
I’m asking what is your RELIGION?

So far, in your profile, you have stated “other” - so I ask that you be more specific. OK?
Click to expand...
It depends on the denomination of whatever the latest site he is cu n pasitng from
 
So, has anyone determined if sky is a progressive first, or a Christian
first? We already know Catholic is last.

This is becoming a septic tank of attention mongering.
 
Liberals are not Catholics. They are schismatic. Some of the people who have posted here are heretics, namely those who deny transubstantiation.
 
Mystic_of_God said:
Liberals are not Catholics. They are schismatic. Some of the people who have posted here are heretics, namely those who deny transubstantiation.
Click to expand...
Roger, cool animations. Your point and many others like it have made ad nauseum but, hey, welcome to ‘SkyWriter’ weblog.

pax.
 
JudieK said:
Why can’t those pushing for liberal Catholicism just join the Episcopal Church? It already has everything they are dreaming for, plus more! Leave the Catholic Church alone!

how can someone leave their own family??
Click to expand...
 
supersweetie said:
JudieK;3720601:
Why can’t those pushing for liberal Catholicism just join the Episcopal Church? It already has everything they are dreaming for, plus more! Leave the Catholic Church alone!

how can someone leave their own family??
Click to expand...
Same way they can carve it up then sit down for turkey and football.
Click to expand...
 
Mystic_of_God said:
Liberals are not Catholics. They are schismatic. Some of the people who have posted here are heretics, namely those who deny transubstantiation.
Click to expand...
Yes Skyrider is Catholic…a member of the Universal Christian Church. This Universal Body of Christ includes all believers irregardless of denomination, rank, race, age or sex.

I think the critical difference between Orthodox or Traditional and Progressive or Reformed Catholics, is that Liberals seek to get to the essence of faith and take the weed wacker to tradition.,ie clearing away historic rubbish, error, & twisted reasoning to access the Kingdom of God. Conservatives on the other hand get so fascinated with tradition they get lost in the maze and never find the Kingdom or go off in an entirely wrong direction.

I find it interesting that the original Gospels and Epistles are so short (Mark for example is 20 pages) and to the point. The Catechism of the Catholic Church outdoes the Pharisees Obsessive Compulsive Interpretations of the Torah…I think in its present form it is nearly 1000 page in microscopic print. Talk about information pollution!

It is my belief that Christ never setup a church organization, ordination of clergy, a type of worship service or prayer book, sacraments as they are currently practised, fashions in art, music vestments, styles of church architecture, etc. These are all man made inventions and as such can be changed to fit the needs of the times and the society. Again Christianity is a WAY OF LIFE not a rule book. Problems of the present cannot be solved by a return to the past or retreat into fantasies of utopia.

I would urge my conservative brethern to personally examine both their beliefs and tradition. Take what makes sense and forget the rest. Let the Holy Spirit not men lead you in this analysis. An adult faith is a questioning and reasoning faith. Let’s not blindly obey the Pope, Cardinals or Council of Bishops. Where the Church is in error, Laity must reform it. (eg Gailao, Papal Approval of Slavery, Sale of Indulgences, Pograms against Jews etc.).If traditition has so many corrupt popes,fake relics, and falsified histories, all Medival and Renaissance Dogma, Doctrine, and Beliefs must be investigated with sketicism, Things that make sense to ones mind and heart should be embraced. Ignore the rest.

God is not impressed with ornate rituals, encyclicals with fancy words, censorship, holy inquistion, clergy in theatrical costumes, magic shows, gold plated altars, incense, candles, songs no one understands words they sing, expensive buildings etc. God is not into monarchy, theories of command and control, or using guilt trips to intimidate & win. God desires a one on one relationship with his Sons and Daughters. Salvation is Gods free gift to undeserving men. We cannot earn it.

God is impressed with Christians who love God and love their Neighbor. He is not an accountant who records faults. The purpose of faith is to build bridges between God and Man. It is not to separate God and Man.

From blogs to date I find it impossible to discuss or resolve differences between Liberals and Conseratives. which split the Church.Rest assured, progress will never die. I am ending my comments and place the Future in God’s hands and care.

SR2008
 
skyryder said:
Yes Skyrider is Catholic…a member of the Universal
Click to expand...
Christian Church. This Universal Body of Christ includes all believers irregardless of denomination, rank, race, age or sex.

In other words you are not a Catholic

I
think the critical difference between Orthodox or Traditional and Progressive or Reformed Catholics, is that Liberals seek to get to the essence of faith and take the weed wacker to tradition.,ie clearing away historic rubbish, error, & twisted reasoning to access the Kingdom of God. Conservatives on the other hand get so fascinated with tradition they get lost in the maze and never find the Kingdom or go off in an entirely wrong direction.
Click to expand...
Actually the Liberals get the essence of their faith very easily-they make it up as they go along. Everyone is a theologian and everyone gets to create their own personal god in their own image and likeness. To them the only sin is believing there is sin.

Conservatives , on the other hands don’t dismiss 2,000 years of traditions and teachings because it’s not “cool” anymore.
I find it interesting that the original Gospels and Epistles are so short (Mark for example is 20 pages) and to the point. The Catechism of the Catholic Church outdoes the Pharisees Obsessive Compulsive Interpretations of the Torah…I think in its present form it is nearly 1000 page in microscopic print. Talk about information pollution!
Click to expand...
Of course you don’t even need the epistles and Gospels as your god has already revealed to you everything you need to know-which appears to be that anyone who belongs to the Church is a complete and utter idiot.
It is my belief that Christ never setup a church organization, ordination of clergy, a type of worship service or prayer book, sacraments as they are currently practised, fashions in art, music vestments, styles of church architecture, etc. These are all man made inventions and as such can be changed to fit the needs of the times and the society. Again Christianity is a WAY OF LIFE not a rule book. Problems of the present cannot be solved by a return to the past or retreat into fantasies of utopia.
Click to expand...
Man made inventions as opposed to skyryder ex cathedra proclamations.

I
would urge my conservative brethern to personally examine both their beliefs and tradition. Take what makes sense and forget the rest. Let the Holy Spirit not men lead you in this analysis. An adult faith is a questioning and reasoning faith. Let’s not blindly obey the Pope, Cardinals or Council of Bishops. Where the Church is in error, Laity must reform it. (eg Gailao, Papal Approval of Slavery, …t.
Click to expand...
So we are now back to anyone who belongs to the Church is a complete and utter idiot.
**God is not impressed with ornate rituals, encyclicals with fancy words, censorship, holy inquistion, clergy in theatrical costumes, magic shows, gold plated altars, incense, candles, songs no one understands words they sing, expensive buildings etc. **
Click to expand...
God is not into monarchy, theories of command and control, or using guilt trips to intimidate & win. God desires a one on one relationship with his Sons and Daughters. Salvation ]is Gods free gift to undeserving men. We cannot earn it.

Which he told you at dinner last night, right?

Seriously your posts show such a profound lack of understanding of the Church and of Scripture it nearly takes ones breath away.
God is impressed with Christians who love God and love their Neighbor. He is not an accountant who records faults. The purpose of faith is to build bridges between God and Man. It is not to separate God and Man.
Click to expand...
Which of course he has personally revealed to you. You know you seem to know about what God believes than God does
From blogs to date I find it impossible to discuss or resolve differences between Liberals and Conseratives. which split the Church.Rest assured, progress will never die. I am ending my comments and place the Future in God’s hands and care.
Click to expand...
SR2008
Click to expand...
In all of your posts not once did you try to back up your opinions with anything other than your firm belief you are right. it took a long time but finally you realize that people don’t take you seriously unless you give reasons for your beliefs.
 
skyryder said:
  1. Yes Skyrider is Catholic…a member of the Universal Christian Church. This Universal Body of Christ includes all believers irregardless of denomination, rank, race, age or sex.
  1. God is impressed with Christians who love God and love their Neighbor. He is not an accountant who records faults. The purpose of faith is to build bridges between God and Man. It is not to separate God and Man.
  1. I am ending my comments and place the Future in God’s hands and care.
SR2008
Click to expand...
  1. Inventing your own religion is a non-solution.
    There is no “Universal Christian Church.”
    What does exist is the Mystical Body of Christ.
  2. Be very clear:
    GOD IS IMPRESSED WITH NO ONE. GOD IS GOD.
  3. The future of all is in God’s hands.
    If you finally recognize that, then that’s a start.
 
skyryder said:
From blogs to date I find it impossible to discuss or resolve differences between Liberals and Conseratives. which split the Church.Rest assured, progress will never die. I am ending my comments and place the Future in God’s hands and care.

SR2008
Click to expand...
Next time you drop by I suggest you do a little research about what the Catholioc Church teaches rather than just regurgitate the usual accusations that are found on hundreds of web sites and have been heard here thousands of times. It would also be helpful if you would tell us the basis for what you believe in rather than just state it and assume it needs no explanation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top