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Image_of_God
Guest
The Bible is the work of men. Is it merely a work of man that is an interference and should not be followed?
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skyryder
Guest
Could you explain yourself further? Not sure what you mean.
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Image_of_God
Guest
You said that tradition is the work of men and should not be followed as it is merely a distraction. Well, the Bible is also the work of men. That is one place we should not disagree. Is it merely a hindrance created by man? Or will you admit that God does and can speak through the things of men?
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estesbob
Guest
Unless it support skyryders theology(which can be described as the “jesus is my buddy” theology. In which case it is the inspired word of God
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skyryder
Guest
I think God does his work inspite of men rather than because of our own efforts. Yes, I believe God is my buddy. That doesn’t mean He agrees with me all the time. Nor does it mean that he won’t correct me. I think scripture is a book about who Men think God is. I would agree that general themes are the word of God but not necessarily the specifics. For example, the story of Adam and Eve is a myth (*actually there are 2 creation storiesin Genesis). A myth may be fiction but as Joe Campbell says: It is the truest of the true if one looks beyond the literal, interprets symbols and gets the BIG IDEA.The same applies to the New Testament. Did Jesus really turn water into wine or was this a way of saying he was better than Dionysis who did the same? Did he really walk on water, create storms etc, or is this a way of saying he’s more powerful than Poisedon who did similar things?
Tradition really is man made, and the majority of it nonsense.
I have seen priests get really excited about their vestments. Do they know ia chasuble was really a workmans apron that originally had pockets for tools? The alb was originally a pair of shorts called a chiton? Or than their berettas were originally stocking caps? If they did then they probably would have no problem saying mass in blue jeans and a tee shirt because that would be what blue collar guys wear today. The Italians took a simple idea and guzzied it up to absurd ends.
If you want to know what I think God is really like read
THE SHACK. God is Black and She loves us!
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Image_of_God
Guest
I am very startled by the nonsense you are typing. The miracles of Jesus a myth? If you believe that you are NOT a Christian. If you believed that the Creation Story was a myth, you might be right. Maybe it did happen and maybe it didn’t. But the theological truths within the story are definitely true. I think we agree on that. But I will NOT agree with you that Jesus’ miracles were a myth. Yes I do and try to believe that Jesus actually turned water into wine. Call me a fool or naive, but I do. The belief that Jesus’ miracles are true is so central to the Christian faith that you cannot be Christian without believing such.
You insult the Church with what you are typing about vestments, but I don’t feel you’re doing it on purpose or intentionally. Why not where blue jeans to a wedding? Of course, you might be the one to say we should, but if you do, you also say you have no conception of cultural traditions. You do already disregard the tradition of the Church so I would not be surprised if you disregarded them as well.
The progressive philosophy is to make many (I feel sometimes unnecessary) changes, to make a better a world by “moving forward”…even if that means moving forward, straight into the eternal darkness. God is not a she or a he. But he chose to be referred to as He through His word. It is on his own accord that we call Him He. He is Our Father. God is not a Jew, he is neither black nor white. He is clearness and transparency and love. Why do people continue to fight over whether God is a he or a she or white or black. Why don’t we listen to him for once. Changing things because you desire it will get you nowhere.
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skyryder
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skyryder
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I will try to address comments in the order raised.
Compare the Gospel of Mark vs Luke. Luke is twice as long.
As the Jesus story got re told it got more and more decorated.
I sincerely hope Jesus did all the miracles that were written about. I take the Gospels with a grain of salt because there are too many parallels with pagan literature at the time…one does not know what really is factual and what is symbolic. If you want a mind bending exercise try reading Freke and Gandi’s book *THE JESUS MYSTERIES *back to back with Pope Benedicts’ book WHO IS JESUS. Truth is probably between the two extremes. I am troubled however by Ratzingers’ failure to address issues raised by modern archeologists and scholars of classical literature which challenge traditional beliefs.
I think you need to read Crossan’s book on the Life of Palestinian Peasants in the First Century to understand how people really lived based on science not fantasy. The getup the priest wears today is what 5th century nobles wore when THE DONATION OF CONSTANTINE was forged at the Vatican. Constantian Christianity is contrary to the original Christianity of Christ. We Liberals are not trying to insult the church we are trying to restore reality.
People like Paul or the Apostles didn’t wear the theatirical costumes worn by clergy at the Tridentine Mass.The Middle East is HOT,and being near the sea it can be HUMID. Hot and humid means light clothing not heavy .Most of the apostles were farmers. They tilled land. It was hard dirty work and one sweats. Peter the mariner needed to swim, catch fish, clean them & sell fish. Paul tells us he sewed tents for a living and was also a tanner.You can’t farm, swim, or tan in long gowns. Aint possible ! .Men wore knee length chitons because streets were full of mud and animal waste. You didn’t want to soil your clothes because you only had one or two tunics. Only wealthy land owners and senators wore togas, and they had slaves to pick up the long trains. The was a status symbol. It said I don’t have to work for a living. Jesus, the apostles and everyone else - including soldiers - worked. The chasuble really was an apron for tools of your trade not a toga. Men wore a variety of hats. Cloth headbands or woven hats were the most comfortable. Often the headgear identified their profession in some way. . Just about every Renaissance Religious Painting is historically wrong. Toss them out. Jesus was a poor Jew not a wealthy Roman.
My quote GOD IS BLACK AND SHE LOVES US is from a new book called* THE SHACK*. It tries to envision God in a modern way. Before condeming the book, read it first. I think this is a much truer image of what God really is than what we have in the Sistine Chapel or Baltimore Catechism.
Compare the Gospel of Mark vs Luke. Luke is twice as long.
As the Jesus story got re told it got more and more decorated.
I sincerely hope Jesus did all the miracles that were written about. I take the Gospels with a grain of salt because there are too many parallels with pagan literature at the time…one does not know what really is factual and what is symbolic. If you want a mind bending exercise try reading Freke and Gandi’s book *THE JESUS MYSTERIES *back to back with Pope Benedicts’ book WHO IS JESUS. Truth is probably between the two extremes. I am troubled however by Ratzingers’ failure to address issues raised by modern archeologists and scholars of classical literature which challenge traditional beliefs.
I think you need to read Crossan’s book on the Life of Palestinian Peasants in the First Century to understand how people really lived based on science not fantasy. The getup the priest wears today is what 5th century nobles wore when THE DONATION OF CONSTANTINE was forged at the Vatican. Constantian Christianity is contrary to the original Christianity of Christ. We Liberals are not trying to insult the church we are trying to restore reality.
People like Paul or the Apostles didn’t wear the theatirical costumes worn by clergy at the Tridentine Mass.The Middle East is HOT,and being near the sea it can be HUMID. Hot and humid means light clothing not heavy .Most of the apostles were farmers. They tilled land. It was hard dirty work and one sweats. Peter the mariner needed to swim, catch fish, clean them & sell fish. Paul tells us he sewed tents for a living and was also a tanner.You can’t farm, swim, or tan in long gowns. Aint possible ! .Men wore knee length chitons because streets were full of mud and animal waste. You didn’t want to soil your clothes because you only had one or two tunics. Only wealthy land owners and senators wore togas, and they had slaves to pick up the long trains. The was a status symbol. It said I don’t have to work for a living. Jesus, the apostles and everyone else - including soldiers - worked. The chasuble really was an apron for tools of your trade not a toga. Men wore a variety of hats. Cloth headbands or woven hats were the most comfortable. Often the headgear identified their profession in some way. . Just about every Renaissance Religious Painting is historically wrong. Toss them out. Jesus was a poor Jew not a wealthy Roman.
My quote GOD IS BLACK AND SHE LOVES US is from a new book called* THE SHACK*. It tries to envision God in a modern way. Before condeming the book, read it first. I think this is a much truer image of what God really is than what we have in the Sistine Chapel or Baltimore Catechism.
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Roger_Wissinger
Guest
After reading some of these posts, I’m glad liberalism in the church is not dead. I am getting a good laugh
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catharina
Guest
Right. Now if only skyryder will reveal the name of his new religion then we could send in some video cams and sell a comedy series. Maybe it’s still “under construction” with delays and changes ever-present. Or maybe he’s building his own video library.
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estesbob
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I quit replying to him after he declared there was no biological difference between males and females.
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catharina
Guest
Oh yeah, that.
Well, maybe he’ll prove it soon with the learning gathered from his “studies of endocrinology.”
No? Ahhhhhhhh - probably no.
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Caveman
Guest
There’s a word for “Liberal Catholics”… they’re called Protestants.
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una_fides
Guest
so true, so true. many of them probably wouldn’t even make it as protestants. what i want to know is why they claim to be Catholic at all?!
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Image_of_God
Guest
Actually it would have *his *inspiration not that of God
In that case we should say "the word of “skyryder,” because, sincerely, that’s what it is. His religion is simply that which he considers inspired and right. On the other hand, we obey even those things that we disagree with, for we know they are right.There is no unkindness to skyryder intended.
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Image_of_God
Guest
Call me Mr. Serious, but it’s not funny. You laugh and call (or imply) our faith is medieval, but behind such an insult is a compliment. Because it shows that our religion is true…the fact that it is the same today as it was in the Middle Ages and like the truth, it is the same from age to age.
Or maybe you are laughing at my remarks about “eternal destruction.” Maybe it seems to you like a thing from a fairy tale or fiction book. The catechism teaches that teachings on hell are an admonition. Even I need to be remind of the dangers of hell. To you, hell may seem a medieval notion that doesn’t belong in the modern world. Suit yourself.
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Image_of_God
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There seems to be little to no truth in this “religion,” because it’s always changing and the truth does not.
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skyryder
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I think Liberals and Conservatives have a fundamentally different view of who God is. We have fundamentally different ideas on worship, evangelism, music, and the future of the Faith. For me a return (a la Ratzinger) to the Middle Ages is beyond comprehension. Jesus deplored such formalism in his day and called it for what it is DEAD. A living Faith is not a museum piece.
It has got to inspire people in a meaningful way. The Holy Spirit wants to set the Cathedral ablaze and destoy tradition to create modern religion.
I don’t know if Hell exists but the traditionalists view of Heaven is what I call Eternal Boredom and seems to be a close second.
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skyryder
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Shylah
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You know, the problem with this assertion is that if you reduce the Bible to a mere collection of symbols, then how do you know what any of it means? I see you have two choices: either you claim to have the right interpretation because you have special understanding, or you learn from your spiritual elders who have been preserved in an Apostolic line.
I think it’s important that young people learn from their elders as the ones with more experience and wisdom plan the liturgy.
Holy smokes, where in the world did you get that idea? This is a perfect example of how the Sola Scriptura folks are into the “let’s make it up as we go along” religion. From 2 Thess ch. 2:
13 But we ought to give thanks to God for you always, brothers loved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits 7 for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in truth.
14 To this end he has (also) called you through our gospel to possess the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.
16 May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting encouragement and good hope through his grace,
17 encourage your hearts and strengthen them in every good deed and word.
Man oh man, it’s times like these when I am really really glad to be in the Church built on Peter.
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