The assumption (and earnest desire) is that it is the Holy Spirit working in all these things – we are simply referring to the means by which the Holy Spirit is working when we say that such and such a program accomplished something.
ChurchcMillitantSean,
This is not right. The fact is that every tool that is used of the Holy Spirit is of God, and all one has to do is obey christ and examine the fruits. In our church there is much that is good and fruitful in that young people are growing well in the Lord. Since LifeTeen is being well used by the Holy Spirit in many parishes that are not “watering down” the faith means that perhasps the people in your parish did some of it wrong and is something that you should take up with them, not dump on this whole forum and badmouth the whole program.
Are you perhaps one of those radical traditionalist guys? I’m not though I grew up in the church before Vatican 2 and all the changes. To me, the church is still (as always) in the midst of a spiritual battle and some battles we win and some we lose, but the gates of hell will not prevail against her…not at all, at all.
I guess in the end I have to say that I feel that we should always be part of the answer and not the problem, and one of the most effective ways I’ve found to fix anything spiritual is by serious prayer and fasting and also by Eucharistic adoration. remeber guys…the definition od Charity is “Love in action”.
Pax vobiscum,
You are misinterperetting what my position is. I iam simply pointing out that it is not, the group itself which draws teens to Christ, it is the Holy Spirit working *through *a particular organization or person in this case Life Teen. You cannot simply go out in the name of the Church and scandelize or practice infedelity, and resort to saying that the Holy Spirit was working there. I do not believe the Holy Spirit would contradict himself, in working through someone or something and at the same time an infidel or unfaithful to it’s own teachings a guidence, through the Church
My fiend, WOW!Sean,
This is not right. The fact is that every tool that is used of the Holy Spirit is of God, and all one has to do is obey christ and examine the fruits. In our church there is much that is good and fruitful in that young people are growing well in the Lord. Since LifeTeen is being well used by the Holy Spirit in many parishes that are not “watering down” the faith means that perhasps the people in your parish did some of it wrong and is something that you should take up with them, not dump on this whole forum and badmouth the whole program.
Are you perhaps one of those radical traditionalist guys? I’m not though I grew up in the church before Vatican 2 and all the changes. To me, the church is still (as always) in the midst of a spiritual battle and some battles we win and some we lose, but the gates of hell will not prevail against her…not at all, at all.
I guess in the end I have to say that I feel that we should always be part of the answer and not the problem, and one of the most effective ways I’ve found to fix anything spiritual is by serious prayer and fasting and also by Eucharistic adoration. remeber guys…the definition od Charity is “Love in action”.
Pax vobiscum,
There’s that lack of perspective again.
I fully agree. Now that you have further explained your position, I realize that I certainly was misinterpreting your position.
I do not know that one question in such a long post qualifies as and ad hominum (unlike post 25, which is totally personal).
I only put my personal “problems” (my trimuphs) becasue you made a personal attack, directed soley to me.
Your post #2 showed a lack of understanding of the “big picture” of Lifeteen. You weren’t posting “TRUTH” - you were posting your limited opinion. It is important to know the difference, and that needed to be pointed out. If you took that as “a personal attack”, I’m sorry but that’s your misunderstanding.
Do you not see the illogic here? You castigate one person for her opinion based on her experience and yet hold your own experience out as evidence of its universal unorthodoxy.
You’re missing the point. In post #2, Meggie asserted that because his/her local LT experience was a good one, that therefore the question of orthodoxy of the LT organization shouldn’t even be asked. Logically, that makes no sense.
AMEN!!!
Compliance to instructions and obedience to authority is a good thing. If a LifeTeen group is operating in appropriate parameters, would that be acceptable, even if it is nor your “cup of tea?” If not, by what authority or justification do you criticize them? Surely we must not base any criticism on history or past faults. That would be rather contrary to charity.
My friend I still don’t know if Life Teen is a good organization or not, your post leads me to an idea. My idea is this, if we don’t base our criticism on history or past faults we have no basis to form our discernment. My contention is that we should only use what they have done to base an opinion, if we don’t use what they are doing to determine the quality of the organization what can we use. Making it up just does not seem like a good alternative. Just a crazy thought from an odd old man.
in 2003 Lifeteen where I lived celebrated its first “class” of graduates…they were 3 regulars and five semi-regulars…all attend regular services with the occasional visit. One goes to Daily Mass. One is becomming a youth minister and and also attend first fridays. All faught agains parents at times FOR religion
The history of a group should be taken into consideration, but much more important is the direction they are currently going or what they are presently accomplishing.
Excellent retort. Again I have not made my mind up about Life Teen. My experience with it is all less than desirable. From following this thread assuming it is a representative sampling the best I can say about Life Teen is it is a mixed bag.
What I would wish for the group would be that they get orthodox leadership and demand that associated organizations follow orthodox liturgical practices. Orthodox to me does not necessarily mean Gregorian chants what it means is following the letter and spirit of the GIRM and all Catholic traditions. If an electric guitar or a pan flute is used as long as it enhances the mass and not detracts from it I am fine with it. Shoot I would even allow bagpipes or an accordion if that would work naturally with the mass.