Is Mary the Queen of Heaven?

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jimmy said:
There is a problem with this kind of thread, and that is that everyone takes these titles too seriously, literally, and formally. Listening to many Catholics, you would think Mary was appointed to an official position in heaven called ‘queen of heaven’. She has official duties to perform.
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She was appointed to a position, and she does have duties…my guess would be powerful intercession on behalf of the rest of us who, like her, are fully human. But I do have a bit more for you on this point:

Mary as Gebirah and Queen Mother
Taken from The Crucified Rabbi: Judaism and the Origins of Catholic Christianity
By Taylor R. Marshall

The royal and messianic Kingdom of David held its capital in Jerusalem, beginning with King David ca. 1004 B.C. and was eclipsed in 586 B.C. with the capture of King Zedekiah and the forced exile of those Jews who were still alive. Prior to the tragic Babylonian exile, the true King of Judah and heir of David sat enthroned in Jerusalem. Moreover, there were two other important figures alongside the Davidic king in the messianic court of Jerusalem. Next to the king, the second most important person in the Kingdom of Judah was the Gebirah. This Hebrew title translates literally, “Mighty Woman” and refers to the mother of the Jewish king. Most translators render Gebirah as “Queen Mother.”

This Jewish Gebirah possessed a powerful influence over the kingdom. This power and authority flowed from her status as the mother of the Davidic king, not from her own personal importance. Rightly understood, the Queen Mother held a political office and signified the legitimate genealogy of the king. King Solomon the Wise instituted the formal place of the Queen Mother when he ascended to the throne of his father, King David. One of the first things King Solomon did after his enthronement was to place a throne at his right hand and enthrone his mother as the Gebirah:

12 So Solomon sat on the throne of his father David; and his kingdom was firmly established. 13 Then Adonijah son of Haggith came to Bathsheba, Solomon’s mother. She asked, “Do you come peaceably?” He said, “Peaceably.” 14 Then he said, “May I have a word with you?” She said, “Go on.” 15 He said, “You know that the kingdom was mine, and that all Israel expected me to reign; however, the kingdom has turned about and become my brother’s, for it was his from the LORD. 16 And now I have one request to make of you; do not refuse me.” She said to him, “Go on.” 17 He said, “Please ask King Solomon—he will not refuse you—to give me Abishag the Shunammite as my wife.” 18 Bathsheba said, “Very well; I will speak to the king on your behalf.” 19 So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. The king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat on his right (1 Kings 2:12-19).

King Solomon rose to greet his mother and bowed down before her—not because he worshipped her as a goddess, but rather because as King he understood the honor due to the Queen Mother. Her presence in the court signified that Solomon was the legitimate heir of King David because she literally served as the flesh and blood link between father and son. Given the importance of genealogical dynasties, the office and role of the Queen Mother existed in many other cultures, as well. A similar office of a Gebirah was also honored in the northern kingdom of Israel. “We are going down to visit the princes and the family of the queen mother” (2 Kings 10:13).

Jeremiah highlighted the place of preeminence held by the Queen Mother by the end of the Davidic Kingdom when he wrote: “Say to the king and to the queen mother: Come down from your throne” (Jer 13:18). The end of the Davidic reign from Jerusalem is signaled by the dethronement of the Davidic king and his mother. The Queen Mother was so important that the end of the kingdom meant that she must also be deposed.

We see here that it is quite natural for Catholic Christians to honor the Blessed Virgin Mary. Her son is the true Davidic King and she is rightly enthroned at his right hand as the Gebirah and Queen Mother of the Kingdom of God (The Crucified Rabbi, Marshall, Taylor R., p.53-54).
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Mary, Mother of our Lord is August 15 on the [ELCA] Lutheran calendar, so the terminology is common. If Jesus is God, as all Christians profess, than His blessed Mother would be the Mother of God. I think most Christians would accept that designation of St Mary. The title, “Queen of Heaven” suggests that the holy Virgin was assumed into heaven which is considered speculation by many Christians.
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If you were king of heaven, and it were in your power to do something about it, would you leave YOUR mother in the grave? :nope:
 
And the consequence is that you distort the faith by taking a simplistic approach to the tradition. You can’t help yourself; you see a new term like gebirah, and you see a new dogma in it that you can force on everyone else.
 
jimmy said:
And the consequence is that you distort the faith by taking a simplistic approach to the tradition. You can’t help yourself; you see a new term like gebirah, and you see a new dogma in it that you can force on everyone else.
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New term? *NEW *term?

The earliest members of the Church were Jewish…they knew well who the Queen of a kingdom was…the Mother of the King. Let’s see what the Early Church Fathers had to say…

EARLY CHURCH FATHERS ON MARY, QUEEN OF HEAVEN

From early times Christians have believed, and not without reason, that she of whom was born the Son of the Most High received privileges of grace above all other beings created by God. He “will reign in the house of Jacob forever,” “the Prince of Peace,” the “King of Kings and Lord of Lords.” And when Christians reflected upon the intimate connection that obtains between a mother and a son, they readily acknowledged the supreme royal dignity of the Mother of God.

Hence it is not surprising that the early writers of the Church called Mary “the Mother of the King” and “the Mother of the Lord,” basing their stand on the words of St. Gabriel the archangel, who foretold that the Son of Mary would reign forever, and on the words of Elizabeth who greeted her with reverence and called her “the Mother of my Lord.” Thereby they clearly signified that she derived a certain eminence and exalted station from the royal dignity of her Son. This royal dignity of the Blessed Virgin Mary is quite clearly indicated through direct assertion by those who call her “Lady,” “Ruler” and “Queen.”

Origen (185-232 AD)

“Thou, my Lady.” (Hom. in S. Lucam, hom. VII; ed. Rauer, Origenes’ Werke, T. IX, p. 48 (ex catena Marcarii Chrysocephali). Cf. PG XIII, 1902 D.)

St. Ephrem (306-373 AD)

“Let Heaven sustain me in its embrace, because I am honored above it. For heaven was not Thy mother, but Thou hast made it Thy throne. How much more honorable and venerable than the throne of a king is her mother.” (St. Ephrem, Hymni de B. Maria, ed. Th. J. Lamy, t. II, Mechliniae, 1886, hymn. XIX, p. 624.)

“. . . Majestic and Heavenly Maid, Lady, Queen, protect and keep me under your wing lest Satan the sower of destruction glory over me, lest my wicked foe be victorious against me.” (Oratio ad Ssmam Dei Matrem; Opera omnia, Ed. Assemani, t. III (graece), Romae, 1747, pag. 546.)

St. Gregory Nazianzen (329-389 AD)

“the Mother of the King of the universe,” and the “Virgin Mother who brought forth the King of the whole world,” (S. Gregorius Naz., Poemata dogmatica, XVIII, v. 58; PG XXXVII, 485.)

Prudentius (348-413 AD)

“that she has brought forth God as man, and even as Supreme King.” (Prudentius, Dittochaeum, XXVII: PL LX, 102 A.)

St. Jerome (320-420 AD)

“We should realize that Mary means Lady in the Syrian Language.” (S. Hieronymus, Liber de nominibus hebraeis: PL XXIII, 886.)

St. Peter Chrysologus (406-450 AD)

“The Hebrew word ‘Mary’ means ‘Domina.’ The Angel therefore addresses her as ‘Lady’ to preclude all servile fear in the Lord’s Mother, who was born and was called ‘Lady’ by the authority and command of her own Son.” (S. Petrus Chrysologus, Sermo 142, De Annuntiatione B.M.V.: PL LII, 579 C; cf. etiam 582 B; 584 A: “Regina totius exstitit castitatis.”)

Epiphanius, Bishop of Constantinople (d. 535 AD)

“[We should pray that the unity of the Church may be preserved] by the grace of the holy and consubstantial Trinity and by the prayers of Mary, Our Lady, the holy and glorious Virgin and Mother of God." (Relatio Epiphanii Ep. Constantin.: PL LXII, 498 D.)

St. Ildephonsus of Toledo (?-667 AD)

“O my Lady, my Sovereign, You who rule over me, Mother of my Lord . . . Lady among handmaids, Queen among sisters.” (Ildefonsus Toletanus, De virginitate perpetua B.M.V.: PL XCVI, 58 A D.)

St. Andrew of Crete (c. 660-740 AD)

“Today He transports from her earthly dwelling, as Queen of the human race, His ever-Virgin Mother, from whose womb He, the living God, took on human form.” (S. Andreas Cretensis, Homilia II in Dormitionem Ssmae Deiparae: PG XCVII, 1079 B.)

“the Queen of the entire human race faithful to the exact meaning of her name, who is exalted above all things save only God himself.” (Homilia III in Dormitionem Ssmae Deiparae: PG XCVII, 1099 A.)

St. Germanus (c. 640-740 AD)

“Be enthroned, Lady, for it is fitting that you should sit in an exalted place since you are a Queen and glorious above all kings.” (S. Germanus, In Praesentationem Ssmae Deiparae, I: PG XCVIII, 303 A.)

“Queen of all of those who dwell on earth.” (In Praesentationem Ssmae Deiparae, n PG XCVIII, 315 C.)

St. John Damascene (AD 676-c. 760)

“Queen, ruler, and lady,” (S. Ioannes Damascenus, Homilia I in Dormitionem B.M.V.: P.G. XCVI, 719 A.)

“the Queen of every creature.” (De fide orthodoxa, I, IV, c. 14: PG XLIV, 1158 B.)
 
That is great that the fathers honored Mary. It misses the point though. I am perfectly fine with the saints honoring Mary, and it is consistent with my view. You on the other hand would be offended if someone denied that Mary is queen of heaven, or refused to call her it. You have distorted it by turning it into a formal subject.

Show me one church father who called Mary the giberah. You probably couldn’t show anyone prior to 1990. It’s a modern fad to speak in these terms.
 
You can’t have a Coronation without one to coronate.

A good read: how-to-pray-the-rosary-everyday.com/coronation-of-mary.html

Partial:

"By her very relationship as the mother of Jesus, Mary is queen because Jesus is King. Who is a king’s mother?

A queen of course. And Mary is the greatest queen ever for she is the mother of the King of Kings and the Prince of Peace, Jesus.

The Angel Gabriel declared this to be true…

“He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. And of his kingdom there shall be no end.” -Luke 1:32-33 "
 
The phrase “the queen of heaven” appears in the Bible twice, both times in the book of Jeremiah. The first incident is in connection with the things the Israelites were doing that provoked the Lord to anger. Entire families were involved in idolatry. The children gathered wood, and the men used it to build altars to worship false gods. The women were engaged in kneading dough and baking cakes of bread for the “Queen of Heaven” (Jeremiah 7:18). This title referred to Ishtar, an Assyrian and Babylonian goddess also called Ashtoreth and Astarte by various other groups. She was thought to be the wife of the false god Baal, also known as Molech. The motivation of women to worship Ashtoreth stemmed from her reputation as a fertility goddess, and, as the bearing of children was greatly desired among women of that era, worship of this “queen of heaven” was rampant among pagan civilizations. Sadly, it became popular among the Israelites as well.

The second reference to the queen of heaven is found in Jeremiah 44:17-25, where Jeremiah is giving the people the word of the Lord which God has spoken to him. He reminds the people that their disobedience and idolatry has caused the Lord to be very angry with them and to punish them with calamity. Jeremiah warns them that greater punishments await them if they do not repent. They reply that they have no intentions of giving up their worship of idols, promising to continue pouring out drink offerings to the queen of heaven, Ashtoreth, and even going so far as to credit her with the peace and prosperity they once enjoyed because of God’s grace and mercy.

It is unclear where the idea that Ashtoreth was a “consort” of Jehovah originated, but it’s easy to see how the blending of paganism that exalts a goddess with the worship of the true King of heaven, Jehovah, can lead to the combining of God and Ashtoreth. And since Ashtoreth worship involved sexuality (fertility, procreation, temple prostitution), the resulting relationship, to the depraved mind, would naturally be one of a sexual nature. Clearly, the idea of the “queen of heaven” as the consort or paramour of the King of heaven is idolatrous and unbiblical.

There is no queen of heaven. There has never been a queen of heaven. There is most certainly a King of Heaven, the Lord of hosts, Jehovah. He alone rules in heaven. He does not share His rule or His throne or His authority with anyone. The idea that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is the queen of heaven has no scriptural basis whatsoever, stemming instead from proclamations of priests and popes of the Roman Catholic Church. While Mary was certainly a godly young woman greatly blessed in that she was chosen to bear the Savior of the world, she was not in any way divine, nor was she sinless, nor is she to be worshipped, revered, venerated, or prayed to. All followers of the Lord God refuse worship. Peter and the apostles refused to be worshipped (Acts 10:25-26; 14:13-14). The holy angels refuse to be worshipped (Revelation 19:10; 22:9). The response is always the same, “Worship God!” To offer worship, reverence, or veneration to anyone but God is nothing short of idolatry. Mary’s own words in her “Magnificat” (Luke 1:46-55) reveal that she never thought of herself as “immaculate” and deserving of veneration, but was instead relying on the grace of God for salvation: “And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.” Only sinners need a savior, and Mary recognized that need in herself.

Furthermore, Jesus Himself issued a mild rebuke to a woman who cried out to Him, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you” (Luke 11:27), replying to her, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” By doing so, He curtailed any tendency to elevate Mary as an object of worship. He could certainly have said, “Yes, blessed be the Queen of Heaven!” But He did not. He was affirming the same truth that the Bible affirms—there is no queen of heaven, and the only biblical references to the “queen of heaven” refer to the goddess of an idolatrous, false religion.
 
JonNC said:
Of the two, Queen Mother makes more sense, but Queen of Heaven is ok.

Jon
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No, Queen Mother is what we called our daughter as a teen-ager.
😃
Only those who have endured the teen years will understand
😃
 
Randy_Carson said:
She was appointed to a position, and she does have duties…my guess would be powerful intercession on behalf of the rest of us who, like her, are fully human. But I do have a bit more for you on this point:

Mary as Gebirah and Queen Mother
Taken from The Crucified Rabbi: Judaism and the Origins of Catholic Christianity
By Taylor R. Marshall

The royal and messianic Kingdom of David held its capital in Jerusalem, beginning with King David ca. 1004 B.C. and was eclipsed in 586 B.C. with the capture of King Zedekiah and the forced exile of those Jews who were still alive. Prior to the tragic Babylonian exile, the true King of Judah and heir of David sat enthroned in Jerusalem. Moreover, there were two other important figures alongside the Davidic king in the messianic court of Jerusalem. Next to the king, the second most important person in the Kingdom of Judah was the Gebirah. This Hebrew title translates literally, “Mighty Woman” and refers to the mother of the Jewish king. Most translators render Gebirah as “Queen Mother.”

This Jewish Gebirah possessed a powerful influence over the kingdom. This power and authority flowed from her status as the mother of the Davidic king, not from her own personal importance. Rightly understood, the Queen Mother held a political office and signified the legitimate genealogy of the king. King Solomon the Wise instituted the formal place of the Queen Mother when he ascended to the throne of his father, King David. One of the first things King Solomon did after his enthronement was to place a throne at his right hand and enthrone his mother as the Gebirah:

12 So Solomon sat on the throne of his father David; and his kingdom was firmly established. 13 Then Adonijah son of Haggith came to Bathsheba, Solomon’s mother. She asked, “Do you come peaceably?” He said, “Peaceably.” 14 Then he said, “May I have a word with you?” She said, “Go on.” 15 He said, “You know that the kingdom was mine, and that all Israel expected me to reign; however, the kingdom has turned about and become my brother’s, for it was his from the LORD. 16 And now I have one request to make of you; do not refuse me.” She said to him, “Go on.” 17 He said, “Please ask King Solomon—he will not refuse you—to give me Abishag the Shunammite as my wife.” 18 Bathsheba said, “Very well; I will speak to the king on your behalf.” 19 So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. The king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat on his right (1 Kings 2:12-19).

King Solomon rose to greet his mother and bowed down before her—not because he worshipped her as a goddess, but rather because as King he understood the honor due to the Queen Mother. Her presence in the court signified that Solomon was the legitimate heir of King David because she literally served as the flesh and blood link between father and son. Given the importance of genealogical dynasties, the office and role of the Queen Mother existed in many other cultures, as well. A similar office of a Gebirah was also honored in the northern kingdom of Israel. “We are going down to visit the princes and the family of the queen mother” (2 Kings 10:13).

Jeremiah highlighted the place of preeminence held by the Queen Mother by the end of the Davidic Kingdom when he wrote: “Say to the king and to the queen mother: Come down from your throne” (Jer 13:18). The end of the Davidic reign from Jerusalem is signaled by the dethronement of the Davidic king and his mother. The Queen Mother was so important that the end of the kingdom meant that she must also be deposed.

We see here that it is quite natural for Catholic Christians to honor the Blessed Virgin Mary. Her son is the true Davidic King and she is rightly enthroned at his right hand as the Gebirah and Queen Mother of the Kingdom of God (The Crucified Rabbi, Marshall, Taylor R., p.53-54).
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Mary is the Queen of Heaven.

But this analogy makes it really hard to equate Bathsheba with Mary…even in the political office sense mentioned above.

I think Mary has THE place in heaven, but she exercises no “political office” other than honorary. She is BLESSED and is always with the deepest desire to have all mankind united with our Savior, her son on earth. “Do as He says.” is a desire for obedience her son. As I have heard ‘Mary points to Jesus’ always.
 
What does “Queen of Heaven” really mean? We don’t worship her. We pray to her, but we pray to many saints. I guess my question boils to what sets Mary apart from any other saint, and what does she do as queen?
 
Pedro_1987 said:
What does “Queen of Heaven” really mean? We don’t worship her. We pray to her, but we pray to many saints. I guess my question boils to what sets Mary apart from any other saint, and what does she do as queen?
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She is Queen because she is the mother of the King. As Queen, she aims to bring people to her son, our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Son of God and with the Father and the Holy Spirit IS God. She is set apart because she is Christ’s mother and it was her ‘Yes’ to God’s call that brought Christ into the world. No other Saint can claim that.
 
The Feast of Christ the King is November 24 and is celebrated on the closest Sunday in Lutheran churches. So if Christ is King, His blessed mother is Queen of Heaven.
 
jimmy said:
That is great that the fathers honored Mary. It misses the point though. I am perfectly fine with the saints honoring Mary, and it is consistent with my view. You on the other hand would be offended if someone denied that Mary is queen of heaven, or refused to call her it. You have distorted it by turning it into a formal subject.

Show me one church father who called Mary the giberah. You probably couldn’t show anyone prior to 1990. It’s a modern fad to speak in these terms.
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I see.

And this bothers you because…?

I demonstrated that the Early Church Fathers saw Mary as Queen…whether any of them actually used the Hebrew word, Gebirah, which means essentially the same thing, seems like petty nit-picking.
 
The Virgin Mary ( or as we call her St. Mary) is the “Theotokos” the God Bearer and due great honor

Do the words King and Queen really have any bearing when referring to heaven? God forbid we would have Dukes/Earls and of course Barons and Viscounts among the heavenly host?:cool:
 
jimmy said:
TYou probably couldn’t show anyone prior to 1990. It’s a modern fad to speak in these terms.
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1990, eh?

Excerpts from Queen Mother: A Biblical Theology of Mary’s Queenship
by Edward Sri
(And yes, I own the book.)

We will now consider a final approach for demonstrating the biblical foundations of Mary’s queenship. Especially since Vatican II, many scholars addressing this topic have taken a salvation-historical approach, using the Old Testament queen-mother tradition as the primary backdrop for understanding Mary’s queenship.** In the late 1950’s and 1960’s, scholars such as H. Cazelles, A. Del Moral, D. Stanley, B. Ahern, C. Struhmueller and R. Laurentin specifically used this theme in order to explain Mary’s royal office.**

A number of them discussed how in several ancient near Eastern kindgoms the queen-mother figure was given a special place ruling in the royal court. They also examined how various biblical texts in 1 and 2 Kings and the Book of Jeremiah show that, in the kingdom of Judah, the queen mother held an official position as queen, participating in her son’s reign by serving as an advocate for the people and as a counselor to her son.

It is commonly noted how Bathsheba gained considerable power when she became queen mother after her son Solomon assumed the throne. Pointing to a scene in 1 Kings 2, many have shown how King Solomon honors his queen mother bowing before her, having her sit at his right hand, and saying he will grant her any request she makes.

Some scholars also demonstrate how the queen-mother figure plays an important role in two passages from Israel’s tradition, which eventually became associated to some extent with the Messiah: Isaiah 7:14 and Genesis 3:15 closely associate a royal mother with her royal son and his work.

These scholars conclude that, with this Old Testament background in mind, Mary should be understood as the queen mother in the new kingdom of her Son. For example, in the New Testament, Mary and Jesus are shown fulfilling Isaiah 7:14 (Mt. 1:22-3; Lk 1-26-31), thus connecting Mary with the queen-mother concept. Most of these scholars also point out how Mary is queen mother by returning to the Visitation scene, where Elizabeth calls Mary, “the mother of my Lord” - words probably used in reference to the queen mother in the Old Testament.

Do you honestly think these scholars were ignorant of the Hebrew word, “gebirah”?
 
cmodrmac said:
The Virgin Mary ( or as we call her St. Mary) is the “Theotokos” the God Bearer and due great honor

Do the words King and Queen really have any bearing when referring to heaven? God forbid we would have Dukes/Earls and of course Barons and Viscounts among the heavenly host?:cool:
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True.

But Jesus did appoint a Royal Steward. The current office holder resides in Rome. 👍
 
WaitingForJesus said:
YES!
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This seems to me to be an attempt to scribe to heaven and to Mary a romanticized concept that really only applies to life in this temporal finite world. It is dangerous to subscribe earthly concepts to life in union with the Most Holy Trinity.While it is a very appealing concept we cannot begin to understand what life will be like in Heaven and I therefore believe it is unwise and even misleading to ascribe earthy concepts to Heaven and the Beatific Vision. I was told when I was little to imagine Heaven as the best it could possibly be and was promised that it would be even better than that. Ascribing titles and positions to Mary seems a bit pointless since only God can know for sure what He has prepared for those that love Him. Earthly titles and concepts will not apply.
 
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