Is Masturbation the only "debatable" Sin?

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While it sounds like it hasn;t been proven 100% apparently alot of research points to the fact that it does. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3072021.stm And I have read before that apparently it decreases the urinary tract infections in women.
Well, there it is. And it’s a BBC source. Everyone knows the BBC is better than American news reporting. God I love the English. They’ve given me so much: Shakespeare, Tolkien, Lewis, Benny Hill, Monty Python, etc.

I have made great progress in my masturbatorial abstinence, and I like where I am so I don’t intend to backslide or anything, so don’t worry.

Weenerb! Stop helping on this post. You think the Pope is a Nazi, and your account is under review. Get thee behind me Satan!

Abortion is always murder, no matter what country you’re from.

Should I post this link on the other thread? Now everyone is over on another thread “Is masturbation a sin.” Everyone should stay with us. We’re more fun. I saw BRB over there. Traitor.
 
While it sounds like it hasn;t been proven 100% apparently alot of research points to the fact that it does. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3072021.stm And I have read before that apparently it decreases the urinary tract infections in women.
Lower’s blood pressure: Brody, Stuart. “Blood pressure reactivity to stress is better for people who recently had penile-vaginal intercourse than for people who had other or no sexual activity.” Biological Psychology, Volume 71, Issue 2, February 2006, pages 214-222

Lower’s prostate cancer risk: ^ Sexual factors and prostate cancer blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1046/j.1464-410X.2003.04319.x/abs/ (Men who averaged five or more ejaculations weekly in their 20s had an odds ratio (95% confidence interval) of 0.66 (0.49–0.87) compared with those who ejaculated less often.)

It also reduces the likelihood of contracting an STD (if used as an alternative method to intercourse).

And helps or can help with sleep.

(Citations taken from wikipedia article)
 
Lower’s blood pressure: Brody, Stuart. “Blood pressure reactivity to stress is better for people who recently had penile-vaginal intercourse than for people who had other or no sexual activity.” Biological Psychology, Volume 71, Issue 2, February 2006, pages 214-222

Lower’s prostate cancer risk: ^ Sexual factors and prostate cancer blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1046/j.1464-410X.2003.04319.x/abs/ (Men who averaged five or more ejaculations weekly in their 20s had an odds ratio (95% confidence interval) of 0.66 (0.49–0.87) compared with those who ejaculated less often.)

It also reduces the likelihood of contracting an STD (if used as an alternative method to intercourse).

And helps or can help with sleep.

(Citations taken from wikipedia article)
As far as I see from your post, you have shown benefits of masturbation. However all these physical benefits are they more of a concern than your spiritual being. Masturbation might help some people sleep, it also might help lower blood pressure, but all this comes at the price of your spiritual well being. Ciggarettes have a calming effect and help people relax, but we also know they kill, they are addictive and habit forming, just like masturbation only masturbation kills the soul and not the physical body. We cannot give ourselves excuses or promote an act that is immoral and destructive to our very souls. I know some people are simply saying well I just want to show it is not a mortal or grave a sin as it is sometimes made out to be. Well all I am saying is that it is a sin none the less and that by defending masturbation or saying that it is not a serious sin will make some people think it is alright then. It is not alright and if you believe it to be a sin minor or mortal you then should not make any allowances or comparisions to other sins, a sin is a sin.
 
Well, there it is. And it’s a BBC source. Everyone knows the BBC is better than American news reporting. God I love the English. They’ve given me so much: Shakespeare, Tolkien, Lewis, Benny Hill, Monty Python, etc.

I have made great progress in my masturbatorial abstinence, and I like where I am so I don’t intend to backslide or anything, so don’t worry.

Weenerb! Stop helping on this post. You think the Pope is a Nazi, and your account is under review. Get thee behind me Satan!

Abortion is always murder, no matter what country you’re from.

Should I post this link on the other thread? Now everyone is over on another thread “Is masturbation a sin.” Everyone should stay with us. We’re more fun. I saw BRB over there. Traitor.
Well I will find another source if you like I was just trying to find a source that people would reconize you know? And I was trying to avoid sources that sounded that they were geared towards young teenagers just learning about their body and blah blah blah, or sources that seen blantantly biased. But I am willing to bet that if there is an american news report it would basically say the same thing as this one did. But here is another source, vpul.upenn.edu/ohe/library/Sexhealth/mens/prostate.htm.
 
Interesting conversation.

I have a friend, that is fairly high up in the Catholic Heirachy, I’m not sure what his particular role entails, but he is involved in ensuring that offical catholic teaching is adherred to.

I asked him about this, and he indicated to me that masturbation is not a sin, and that he gets very sad, angry and upset that so many catholics do no understand their own doctrine.

I’m not talking about a walk in the park Catholic here, but one who determines the teaching according to the church and is an educator for catholics in their region(not a priest).

I’ll have to ask him for further information on this, to see if he can provide me with something more specific.
 
Interesting conversation.

I have a friend, that is fairly high up in the Catholic Heirachy, I’m not sure what his particular role entails, but he is involved in ensuring that offical catholic teaching is adherred to.

I asked him about this, and he indicated to me that masturbation is not a sin, and that he gets very sad, angry and upset that so many catholics do no understand their own doctrine.

I’m not talking about a walk in the park Catholic here, but one who determines the teaching according to the church and is an educator for catholics in their region(not a priest).

I’ll have to ask him for further information on this, to see if he can provide me with something more specific.
Your friend, however high up he is, even if he were the Pope, is wrong. This sin has been a consistent teaching of the Church. This is not a debatable issue. The Church cannot contradict herself in the teaching of Faith and morals; she by the Holy Spirit, through the office of Peter is protected from such error. The Pope from the chair could not issue such a contradiction. The Holy Spirit would not allow it by the promise of Christ.

Please, you should correct your friend asap.

from the CCC
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.
** 2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.**
infallibility of consistently held moral teachings:
889 In order to preserve the Church in the purity of the faith handed on by the apostles, Christ who is the Truth willed to confer on her a share in his own infallibility. By a “supernatural sense of faith” the People of God, under the guidance of the Church’s living Magisterium, "unfailingly adheres to this faith."417
Your friend is being a pawn for evil if he teaches sin is not sin.
 
originally posted by Valke2
Originally Posted by Calliso
While it sounds like it hasn;t been proven 100% apparently alot of research points to the fact that it does. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3072021.stm
** And I have read before that apparently it decreases the urinary tract infections in women.**
Lower’s blood pressure: Brody, Stuart. “Blood pressure reactivity to stress is better for people who recently had penile-vaginal intercourse than for people who had other or no sexual activity.” Biological Psychology, Volume 71, Issue 2, February 2006, pages 214-222

Lower’s prostate cancer risk: ^ Sexual factors and prostate cancer blackwell-synergy.com/lin…3.04319.x/abs/ (Men who averaged five or more ejaculations weekly in their 20s had an odds ratio (95% confidence interval) of 0.66 (0.49–0.87) compared with those who ejaculated less often.)

It also reduces the likelihood of contracting an STD (if used as an alternative method to intercourse).

And helps or can help with sleep.

(Citations taken from wikipedia article)

It is going to decrease urinary infections in woman? Is this similar to the pill which is suppose to decrease acne, and reduce ovarian cancer. RU486 will help depression and possibly the re-occurrence of ovarian cancer and abortion will reduce maternal deaths.

I really would question any study on masturbation and health.

nbcsandiego.com/health/2197503/detail.html

nbcsandiego.com/health/10477995/detail.html
 
As far as I see from your post, you have shown benefits of masturbation. However all these physical benefits are they more of a concern than your spiritual being. Masturbation might help some people sleep, it also might help lower blood pressure, but all this comes at the price of your spiritual well being. Ciggarettes have a calming effect and help people relax, but we also know they kill, they are addictive and habit forming, just like masturbation only masturbation kills the soul and not the physical body. We cannot give ourselves excuses or promote an act that is immoral and destructive to our very souls. I know some people are simply saying well I just want to show it is not a mortal or grave a sin as it is sometimes made out to be. Well all I am saying is that it is a sin none the less and that by defending masturbation or saying that it is not a serious sin will make some people think it is alright then. It is not alright and if you believe it to be a sin minor or mortal you then should not make any allowances or comparisions to other sins, a sin is a sin.
I was merely replying to a post that was discussing whether or not there was medical evidence that masturbation had physical benefits. Personally, I don’t believe it is a sin if it is not used to deprive my partner of sexual pleasure. Obviously, this is not the position of the church or my religion.
 
Well, there it is. And it’s a BBC source. Everyone knows the BBC is better than American news reporting. God I love the English. They’ve given me so much: Shakespeare, Tolkien, Lewis, Benny Hill, Monty Python, etc.

I have made great progress in my masturbatorial abstinence, and I like where I am so I don’t intend to backslide or anything, so don’t worry.

Weenerb! Stop helping on this post. You think the Pope is a Nazi, and your account is under review. Get thee behind me Satan!

Abortion is always murder, no matter what country you’re from.

Should I post this link on the other thread? Now everyone is over on another thread “Is masturbation a sin.” Everyone should stay with us. We’re more fun. I saw BRB over there. Traitor.
Can you give more information? Are there medical journals or any clinical researches on this subject?

What occurs to me when browsing the info is that these are things commonly associated with sexual activity. Of course you would find this with masturbation. Sexual intercourse has many of the same benefits.

You would also have to somehow create a control group, because sexual activity resulting in orgasm releases a cocktail of hormones and endorphins which do all sorts of things. One would have to prove that masturbation did this better than, say, laughing or taking a jog or reading a funny story.
 
Can you give more information? Are there medical journals or any clinical researches on this subject?

What occurs to me when browsing the info is that these are things commonly associated with sexual activity. Of course you would find this with masturbation. Sexual intercourse has many of the same benefits.

You would also have to somehow create a control group, because sexual activity resulting in orgasm releases a cocktail of hormones and endorphins which do all sorts of things. One would have to prove that masturbation did this better than, say, laughing or taking a jog or reading a funny story.
That was my initial question as well. I really am surprised that there is as much research on it, but I have heard so much, and I figured that a Father Doctor or Sister Doctor or Brother Doctor would be a better source. It seems either there are none reading this post, or maybe they’re too busy being Doctors and saying Mass that they don’t have time to reply.

The BBC article and others seem to agree that its the build up of carcinogens in the prostate that are particularly released through masturbation, and most effectively among those in their 20s. They suggest that even sexual intercourse doesn’t do the same for some reason. Again, I am only a philosopher poet.

And I should say that one may come to the erroneous conclusion that I’m trying to advocate for masturbation. Several posts ago I mentioned that when I was a diocesan seminarian a doctor told me to masturbate once a month at least to avoid prostate cancer. Is there such a thing as masturbating without lust? I’ve never done it. Or could Catholic doctors invent an outpatient procedure by which excess semen is extracted from men? I don’t know what they’d do for women. This is starting to sound like some weird post-apocolyptic movie plot.
 
masturbate once a month at least to avoid prostate cancer. Is there such a thing as masturbating without lust? QUOTE]

Chances are good you will die of something other than this cancer.

I’m sure you are familiar with the concept of Dualism ? Where one thinks of their body as a ‘machine’ … and separates their emotions/spirit from the body. Kind of like not letting the brain know what the right hand is doing.

Dualism is not a valid Christian philosophy. Furthermore, it doesn’t work in actuality for man … especially a Christian. God desires our Spiritual Hearts most especially. Christianity has always taught that the body & soul are joined as one … in the ONE.

Furthermore, since you are married … you have a third special partner, who you need to answer to on sexual/love matters.
 
Nom the Wise: Is there such a thing as masturbating without lust?
**BRB **Chances are good you will die of something other than this cancer.
I’m sure you are familiar with the concept of Dualism ? Christianity has always taught that the body & soul are joined as one … in the ONE.
Furthermore, since you are married … you have a third special partner, who you need to answer to on sexual/love matters.
Well I did bring up Manichean Dualism earlier. The question I asked above was merely rhetorical. I don’t think it’s possible, and to further clarify to everyone, I’m not advocating masturbation in any form. And actually, I ask the prostate question because I may be dealing with prostate issues. I’m also a diabetic. And the wife and I are in therapy, far more about money issues than anything else.

Look, I have a signature now. It’s more a reminder for me than for anyone else.
 
That was my initial question as well. I really am surprised that there is as much research on it, but I have heard so much, and I figured that a Father Doctor or Sister Doctor or Brother Doctor would be a better source. It seems either there are none reading this post, or maybe they’re too busy being Doctors and saying Mass that they don’t have time to reply.

The BBC article and others seem to agree that its the build up of carcinogens in the prostate that are particularly released through masturbation, and most effectively among those in their 20s. They suggest that even sexual intercourse doesn’t do the same for some reason. Again, I am only a philosopher poet.

And I should say that one may come to the erroneous conclusion that I’m trying to advocate for masturbation. Several posts ago I mentioned that when I was a diocesan seminarian a doctor told me to masturbate once a month at least to avoid prostate cancer. Is there such a thing as masturbating without lust? I’ve never done it. Or could Catholic doctors invent an outpatient procedure by which excess semen is extracted from men? I don’t know what they’d do for women. This is starting to sound like some weird post-apocolyptic movie plot.
Oh, well, plenty of things could be labelled “beneficial” and are still wrong, so I didn’t think you were advocating it. It’s just a very interesting topic is all.
 
Maybe it’s time our clergy really sat down and defined it. Yes it can be venial. Yes it can be mortal…grave matter. I’m sure there’s folks here who never came close to violating another commandment who were active in masturbation.
The Church has defined it. It has defined it not just in the Catechism but also in various documents. The reason why there are a lot of threads on this sin and not ‘stealing’ or ‘lying’ is because sexual sins are more destructive to the person. The matter is more grave and the consequences (both spiritually and psychologically) are greater. It can also become an addicting thing much more than stealing or lying.

To put it bluntly; if you accept what Christ teaches through his Church - stop doing “it” - and don’t try to find arguments that will excuse any more masturbatory actions.
 
Interesting conversation.

I have a friend, that is fairly high up in the Catholic Heirachy, I’m not sure what his particular role entails, but he is involved in ensuring that offical catholic teaching is adherred to.

I asked him about this, and he indicated to me that masturbation is not a sin, and that he gets very sad, angry and upset that so many catholics do no understand their own doctrine.

I’m not talking about a walk in the park Catholic here, but one who determines the teaching according to the church and is an educator for catholics in their region(not a priest).

I’ll have to ask him for further information on this, to see if he can provide me with something more specific.
How is one in the heirarchy not a priest? That is a contradiction. Also, you should ask how he explains away all the magisterial teaching documents and centuries of Sacred Tradition and Scripture.

Sounds like you are claiming there is more than one magisterium?
 
Interesting conversation.

I have a friend, that is fairly high up in the Catholic Heirachy, I’m not sure what his particular role entails, but he is involved in ensuring that offical catholic teaching is adherred to.

I asked him about this, and he indicated to me that masturbation is not a sin, and that he gets very sad, angry and upset that so many catholics do no understand their own doctrine.

I’m not talking about a walk in the park Catholic here, but one who determines the teaching according to the church and is an educator for catholics in their region(not a priest).

I’ll have to ask him for further information on this, to see if he can provide me with something more specific.
It is sad when someone who has been given a teaching role in the Church is unfaithful to the teaching of the Church. This person is lying to you; he apparently does not know what the teaching of the Church is. If you do not believe me - pick up your Catechism and do some reading. Please ask this friend of yours to provide you with something more specific - I am curious to where he gets his argument from.

I can tell you based on my own experience that I have found that those people who claim that masturbation is not a sin is because if they recognize it as a sin they will have to try and stop doing it themselves. I am not saying that this is his case but I know the Hierarchy that I have met that have made this claim seem to be the ones that also have some major issues going on in their lives. One of the ones that made this argument to me ended up leaving the priesthood later on (for reasons not made public). Your friend is lying to you and himself.

Secondly, it is pretty weak to say that you are just going off of your friend’s advise. It would be weak for any of us to place the reliance that we should be placing in the teaching office of the Church into the good word of our friends instead. By going to the Church first we will come to know the truth of God’s plan in all areas of our life 1) for our own benefit and 2) so that when our friends fall into error we can guide them towards the truth - just as you could have done to this friend of yours.
 
I hear you. I’m 40 and married with a 2 year old. I’ve been around. I’m not trying to advocate for masturbation. I’m trying to be fully human, as virtuous as humanly possible. I tried for many years to be an “angel” but God gave me this body to live in, and it has sexual organs. I am maintaining chastity as best I can.

You want to hear something funny? I lost my job several months ago due to politics at a college where I was teaching English and have been unable to find a job since. And in my sadness and depression, reverted to masturbating to on-line porn. My vigorous participation in this forum over the last few days is keeping me from masturbating right now. I’m claiming my computer back in the name of Jesus. That’s the truth. Pray for me.
I will. Pray for me, too!

Hopefully I did not come across as unduly harsh in my previous post. I can only imagine how much greater the temptation is in your circumstances. I know how difficult it can be when you’re in between jobs. I’ve been there before.

By the way, I love your screen name. 🙂
 
Actually it can be venial…

My “fallen” moments the past few years have been in the nature of trying to get to sleep before a big day and having fought it for a couple hours just quickly rubbing one out. These were “pishawed” as venial by father. Sins; yes, mortal; no.
The CCC calls it venial in the presence of “certain anxiety conditions”. If it is the only option other than getting rip-roaring drunk or committing fornication-- it is more easily excused.

Wish I had known that one a long time ago.
 
It’s very much a non-debatable. Masturbation is wrong because you are using a body function for a purpose that it wasn’t meant for. There is NOT one situation where it can be justified.
 
The CCC calls it venial in the presence of “certain anxiety conditions”. If it is the only option other than getting rip-roaring drunk or committing fornication-- it is more easily excused.

Wish I had known that one a long time ago.
Not precisely. What it actually says in this regard is fairly qualified:

*To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability. *

As in, a person who compulsively masturbates because he’s in thrall to terrible anxiety and masturbation is the only that gives him even temporary relief, well, that may not be mortal. If he’s 12 and doesn’t know better, that may not be mortal. If he’s been masturbating daily for 10 years and then figures out it’s a sin and has trouble kicking the habit, that may not be mortal. None of these things make it OK. They just make it understandable.
And I should say that one may come to the erroneous conclusion that I’m trying to advocate for masturbation. Several posts ago I mentioned that when I was a diocesan seminarian a doctor told me to masturbate once a month at least to avoid prostate cancer. Is there such a thing as masturbating without lust? I’ve never done it. Or could Catholic doctors invent an outpatient procedure by which excess semen is extracted from men? I don’t know what they’d do for women. This is starting to sound like some weird post-apocolyptic movie plot.
The research on the masturbation/prostate cancer link is extremely tenuous, and the balance of evidence right now suggests it’s net-harmful to men under 50. Turns out flushing your body with what are basically growth hormones is actually BAD for cancer.
Interesting conversation.

I have a friend, that is fairly high up in the Catholic Heirachy, I’m not sure what his particular role entails, but he is involved in ensuring that offical catholic teaching is adherred to.

I asked him about this, and he indicated to me that masturbation is not a sin, and that he gets very sad, angry and upset that so many catholics do no understand their own doctrine.

I’m not talking about a walk in the park Catholic here, but one who determines the teaching according to the church and is an educator for catholics in their region(not a priest).

I’ll have to ask him for further information on this, to see if he can provide me with something more specific.
I’m guessing your friend has lots of books on his shelf like “The Rahner Reader” and “Jesus: An Experiment in Christology”?

For all of you going on about the supposed health benefits of masturbation as evidence of its moral liceity, in the face of the fact that the Church has always and everywhere taught that it is an abominable sin and is protected from error where you aren’t, here’s a related post I wrote a while back, which addresses the “it has positive consequences so it must be good” argument pretty forcefully. The specific context had to do with homosexual couples raising children, but the general principles apply to masturbation as well:
sw85 said:
What science has to say about this is irrelevant, folks, unless you’re a consequentialist. And if you’re a Catholic, you had better not be a consequentialist.

If illicit sexual activity caused rainbows to spontaneously burst from everyone’s eyeballs and all our wound-up sexual tension to turn into money, illicit sexual activity would still be illicit. The argument was never “Sodomitical acts cause bad things to happen.” It was “Sodomitical behavior is a bad thing unto itself.”

And if normative sexual activity made everyone grumpy and constipated and poor, well, it’d still be normative and therefore morally laudable. Because the argument was never “marital, noncontraceptive, man-on-woman, intravaginal ejaculatory sex causes good things to happen” (though it does). It was “normative sex is a good thing unto itself.”

Now, bad things often cause other bad things to happen, this is true. But the badness of the bad thing isn’t determined by what comes after it. All of this is true of good things as well. And moreover the fallen (i.e., no longer supernaturally aided) character of human nature means we have a difficult time discerning the consequences of our action, especially how they affect the interior disposition of ourselves and others. So we often struggle and have great difficulties in doing what is right (e.g., dying to ourselves in order to help others, going to Mass in the morning), and often rejoice in doing what is evil (e.g., contraceptive premarital sex, killing people we dislike).

So when we see studies that say things like “Children reared by homosexual couples are better off than those raised by heterosexual couples,” the first thing we need to ask is not “Is this true?” but “According to what standard of ‘better’?” Since science is necessarily naturalist, it’s always going to evaluate “good” and “better” naturalistically, but that’s not meaningful. Natural goods are good but they are not the good. Even if homosexual couples showered their kids with affection and money, there is still one thing they cannot provide their children with, which is good moral example. They are in principle incapable of providing this. Heterosexual couples by contrast are only accidentally incapable of providing it, or any natural good.

Now, these sorts of studies can (CAN) provide us with useful context. They CAN limitedly ratify our intuitions in some respects. That’s about the extent of it. That CAN must be heavily qualified because most social science research is badly done, and I know, because my job is basically to identify bad social science research and I am very, very good at my job. Most people don’t realize that even if a study is conducted with exactly the right analysis and with simple random sampling (i.e., never), the false-positive error rate is about 5%. Since these conditions are never satisfied, it’s probably substantially greater than that.
 
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