Is Mexico 'haven for pedophile priests'? -Lawsuit filed against Mahony yesterday

[pnewton]

If there is anything holding open the door out of Catholicism for me, it is this scandal.

Let me try to shed some light on this statement, while not faulting you one bit for your frustration.

I live in America. Our government has done some awful things in the past. We continue to be rocked by stories of corruption and evil of every sort and at all levels of government. Still, the thought of leaving this country is not one that all the scandal in the world could bring about. Why? Because I believe that the princliples of liberty and democracy transcend the actions of a few evil men and women.

Similarly, I have now been in my career for twenty years. I have a job that some love to hate. When a corrupt and criminal few pull stunts that hit the papers and bring my profession a bad reputation, I re-double my efforts to counteract this publicity by being the best professional I can. I believe in the principles of justice and public service that brought me here and all the bad apples will not drive me away. On the contrary, since I have the opportunity to shape the minds of new officers, I am more resolved to stay.

Now as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, it may be that some leave as a result of scandal. I submit that those that do will not have a true conviction for the truth of the Faith. Only in the absence of internal conviciton will external incidents cause Faith to shatter.

That being said, I can sympathize with the frustration of seeing this garbage go on. Rest assured, I would love to hold the knife that made a soprano of this pervert before he was locked away for life. But I will not abandon the faith for him.

 

[Caesar]

Let me try to shed some light on this statement, while not faulting you one bit for your frustration.

I live in America. Our government has done some awful things in the past. We continue to be rocked by stories of corruption and evil of every sort and at all levels of government. Still, the thought of leaving this country is not one that all the scandal in the world could bring about. Why? Because I believe that the princliples of liberty and democracy transcend the actions of a few evil men and women.

Similarly, I have now been in my career for twenty years. I have a job that some love to hate. When a corrupt and criminal few pull stunts that hit the papers and bring my profession a bad reputation, I re-double my efforts to counteract this publicity by being the best professional I can. I believe in the principles of justice and public service that brought me here and all the bad apples will not drive me away. On the contrary, since I have the opportunity to shape the minds of new officers, I am more resolved to stay.

There is a big differance here though. The American government does not claim to be infallible, nor does it claim to have been founded by the Son of God. Similarly, no company or industry will claim that either. A religion is very differant from a nation and from a company.

The Catholic Church says (and I believe) that it’s teachings are infallible and that it was founded by Christ. But when many, many clergymen, the man who celebrates the Holy Sacrafice of the Mass and administers the Sacraments, does these things (and then a Bishop covers them up) it is hard, very hard, to look at the Catholic Church and see the Church of Christ.

 

[michaelmac]

I was in a Madgalen Laundry here in Manchester
England in 1959 and if i go by the birth certificate that Ireland gave me i
was 12 years old. And this is after being put into care by the courts. I
have 2 court records. Ireland 1948, England 1956 and all done by the NSPCC.
. I went looking for a lady that
had been put into a mental hospital in 1953, taken from the Industrial
School in Ennis, was only released in November 2003 after i had gone on the
demonstration outside the Irish Embassy in London , Kathleen , Have you ever thought it might not be about money , It might be about accountability And as most Catholics are unwilling comfront those who played a major part in the abuse scandal, Money seems the only way for Catholics to sit up and listen , Would you like me to take you on a tour of grave yards where victims of sexual abuse are buried because they killed them selves ,Including three of my own siblings yours Michael

 

[pnewton]

The Catholic Church says (and I believe) that it’s teachings are infallible and that it was founded by Christ. But when many, many clergymen, the man who celebrates the Holy Sacrafice of the Mass and administers the Sacraments, does these things (and then a Bishop covers them up) it is hard, very hard, to look at the Catholic Church and see the Church of Christ.

You are confusing impeccable with infallible, if not in fact, at least in practice. I have no problem seeing the Church because I look to the majority and not a few. I have met so many beautiful and godly clegy, how could I let the actions I read in the papers of these evil ones affect me? In addition to all the scandals, there are also the amazing saints, both canonized and not, that the Church has produced.

 

[Caesar]

I was in a Madgalen Laundry here in Manchester
England in 1959 and if i go by the birth certificate that Ireland gave me i
was 12 years old. And this is after being put into care by the courts. I
have 2 court records. Ireland 1948, England 1956 and all done by the NSPCC.
. I went looking for a lady that
had been put into a mental hospital in 1953, taken from the Industrial
School in Ennis, was only released in November 2003 after i had gone on the
demonstration outside the Irish Embassy in London , Kathleen , Have you ever thought it might not be about money , It might be about accountability And as most Catholics are unwilling comfront those who played a major part in the abuse scandal, Money seems the only way for Catholics to sit up and listen , Would you like me to take you on a tour of grave yards where victims of sexual abuse are buried because they killed them selves ,Including three of my own siblings yours Michael

Thank you for sharing this. It is both enlightening and depressing.

You are confusing impeccable with infallible, if not in fact, at least in practice. I have no problem seeing the Church because I look to the majority and not a few. I have met so many beautiful and godly clegy, how could I let the actions I read in the papers of these evil ones affect me? In addition to all the scandals, there are also the amazing saints, both canonized and not, that the Church has produced.

No, dont get me wrong, I know the infallible/impeccable thing. I am just trying to convey that sometimes it is hard to see the Catholic Church as the Church of Christ when it is surrouned by this clerical sex scandal. I also cannot help but wonder who is the majority and who is the minority in this scandal.

 

[pnewton]

I also cannot help but wonder who is the majority and who is the minority in this scandal.

All the figures I have ever heard quoted were between 1 and 3 percent, depending on how sexual misconduct is defined. I know I have yet to have a priest in my area commit any such act, but that is merely anecdotal. Even though we all make our own decision, I have to think that those who do contribute to this scandal will be held accountable to God for the loss of souls.

 

[michaelmac]

You are confusing impeccable with infallible, if not in fact, at least in practice. I have no problem seeing the Church because I look to the majority and not a few. I have met so many beautiful and godly clegy, how could I let the actions I read in the papers of these evil ones affect me? In addition to all the scandals, there are also the amazing saints, both canonized and not, that the Church has produced.

When i see a Catholic priest , I see in my minds eye a painting of a cardinal in the Cathedral in London who covered up abuse before he became a cardinal , yours michael

 

[Caesar]

Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not trying to be whiney or anything, but the point I am trying to get across is that I find it very hard to reconcile my Catholic faith and my image of the Church as the Body of Christ with this scandal.

I’m 17 and I am seriously considering a vocation to the priesthood. But very recently I have been hard pressed to look to a priest and say “I want to be that person”. Now I know all the replies to that, all the assertions by many Catholics that many priests are fine, holy men. Ok, I’ll accept that- but I still can’t ignore the scandal. If I am to proceed in my desire to be a priest (and it is very hard not to- I can’t seem to get the idea, the aspiration out of my mind), and probably to proceed in my faith, I must first resolve in my mind this issue and answer the basic questions of why is it happening, what is being done, and will this continue.

And that is only for myself.

 

[pnewton]

Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not trying to be whiney or anything, but the point I am trying to get across is that I find it very hard to reconcile my Catholic faith and my image of the Church as the Body of Christ with this scandal.

I’m 17 and I am seriously considering a vocation to the priesthood.

Wow! You have not seemed whiney at all, but remarkably level-headed. When I posted to you earlier to night, I did so because I truly did feel for your frustration, having been there many times. We have been talking about priestly scandals, but do you know how often cops screw up and scandalize us all? Believe me, the myth of a “blue wall of silence” is not true. I have seen several co-workers over the years end up behind bars and been glad to see justice done. If you are discerning a vocation, it must make you want to pull your hair out when you hear this horrible stuff.

 

[Caesar]

The entire issue has made me very depressed recently.

It is very hard to go day after day trying to hide what should be a cause for celebration. My mother knows, but thinks it’s just a stage. My stepfather continually wants to know why I don’t have a girlfriend. My friends and family want to know why I’m so religious. What do I tell them? I can’t tell them. If I told them I wanted to be a priest, my stepfather would probably kick me out, my friends would think I’m weird and stop talking to me, and I would altogether cause more trouble for myself than I need at the moment.

And it’s all because of this scandal. If it was not for the many priests in my own Diocese and God know how many others around the world, I would have gladly told everyone I knew that I desired to enter the priesthood.

I cannot state how hard it is to say “I want to be him someday” and then find out he, and thousands like him, raped pre-pubescent boys.

I realize that the priesthood is not a mere occupation. If it was, I could handle the abuse scandal among my own co-workers. But the priesthood is more than that- a priest is supposed to be a living icon of Christ who brings the Church, through the Sacraments, to God. And as a priest, I would not be only a co-worker to every other priest in the world; I would be a brother, I would share in that Sacrament of Holy Orders.

So many Catholics can easily shrug off the scandal- they are faithful parishioners who know their own priest is a good, holy man (and he may very well be). End of story. But I can’t do that if I am to become a priest- I have to face this scandal, at least for myself.

Hence my dilemma.

 

[Caesar]

Here is what has been going on with me for months now. I go to Mass, I pray, go to confession, read about theology, Church history, I read the Bible and spiritual books, I spend time in contemplation, I reflect on the lives of the saints, I get information from vocations directors. I become happy and peaceful with my desire to be a priest. Then I turn on the TV, go on the internet, open a newspaper or magazine, and there is yet another case of a priest, or maybe two or maybe ten, being charged with molesting children.

What do I do?
What do I say?
What do I feel? Anger? Confusion? I feel those!

So I become depressed and angry and confused that God would place this idea in my head. I want to be a priest and at the same time I wish that desire had never entered my mind. I often feel, especially after seeing yet another case of clerical sexual abuse, that it is wrong of me to want to be a priest- that such a thought is unnatural and even immoral. But I cannot rid myself of that thought.

Anyway, I’m done. Enough for tonight.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I was in a Magdalen Laundry here in Manchester
England in 1959 and if i go by the birth certificate that Ireland gave me i
was 12 years old. And this is after being put into care by the courts. I
have 2 court records. Ireland 1948, England 1956 and all done by the NSPCC.
. I went looking for a lady that
had been put into a mental hospital in 1953, taken from the Industrial
School in Ennis, was only released in November 2003 after i had gone on the
demonstration outside the Irish Embassy in London , Kathleen , Have you ever thought it might not be about money , It might be about accountability And as most Catholics are unwilling confront those who played a major part in the abuse scandal, Money seems the only way for Catholics to sit up and listen , Would you like me to take you on a tour of grave yards where victims of sexual abuse are buried because they killed them selves ,Including three of my own siblings yours Michael

Thank you for sharing. If I could make your past life better I would do it. But, I can’t. Just as no one can make my past better for me.

Two years ago I had the chance to get alot of money form one of those responsible for my past abuse. But, IMO that would have kept those responsible for the abuse in my life. Every time I spent some of the money it would have reminded me of where it came from. I forgave them and walked away from the situation. It might seem strange to others, but, I am at peace and content for the fist time in my life. God has provided this peace.

God will judge them (the others as I think of them ) just as God will judge me. No, I am not rich and that money would have allowed my husband and I to retire with no worries. But, the ties to those that abused me would only have tightened. I pray for them daily and even hope they will be in heaven. But in this case the money was how the abusers were trying for forgiveness for themselves.

May God give you peace that is beyond understanding. May God allow you to forgive those that harmed you and others.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Here is what has been going on with me for months now. I go to Mass, I pray, go to confession, read about theology, Church history, I read the Bible and spiritual books, I spend time in contemplation, I reflect on the lives of the saints, I get information from vocations directors. I become happy and peaceful with my desire to be a priest. Then I turn on the TV, go on the internet, open a newspaper or magazine, and there is yet another case of a priest, or maybe two or maybe ten, being charged with molesting children.

What do I do?
What do I say?
What do I feel? Anger? Confusion? I feel those!

So I become depressed and angry and confused that God would place this idea in my head. I want to be a priest and at the same time I wish that desire had never entered my mind. I often feel, especially after seeing yet another case of clerical sexual abuse, that it is wrong of me to want to be a priest- that such a thought is unnatural and even immoral. But I cannot rid myself of that thought.

Anyway, I’m done. Enough for tonight.

I guess my advice for you is to remember that the priests are human and not perfect. Evil is evil no matter where it comes from.
It amazes us that we as a country do not hold parents responsible for their adult children for the crimes they commit against children. We do not hold the school districts for the crimes the employees commit against children. We go by the law and allow the victims sue the one person that was convicted of the crime. Yet, when it is a priest the courts go for the throat of the church.

When I hear of more accusations after 20, 30 sometimes more years I wonder what the motive of the accuser is. Punishing the “man” that harmed them or punishing the Church because of anger. As I stated before: punishing the guilty is doing the right thing. Punishing the parishes is taking from the Innocent.

 

[michaelmac]

Thank you for sharing. If I could make your past life better I would do it. But, I can’t. Just as no one can make my past better for me.

Two years ago I had the chance to get alot of money form one of those responsible for my past abuse. But, IMO that would have kept those responsible for the abuse in my life. Every time I spent some of the money it would have reminded me of where it came from. I forgave them and walked away from the situation. It might seem strange to others, but, I am at peace and content for the fist time in my life. God has provided this peace.

God will judge them (the others as I think of them ) just as God will judge me. No, I am not rich and that money would have allowed my husband and I to retire with no worries. But, the ties to those that abused me would only have tightened. I pray for them daily and even hope they will be in heaven. But in this case the money was how the abusers were trying for forgiveness for themselves.

May God give you peace that is beyond understanding. May God allow you to forgive those that harmed you and others.

Kathleen thank you for sharing , and for your caring words, I do not live in the past ,but i am reminded every day because of things i am not allowed to do ,yours michael

 

[OriginalJS]

BTW-I could go to wikepeida right now and edit it to say the Madgalena laundrys were havens of peace and joy-such is the nature of Wikepedia-one of the most unreliable sources on the web

I agree completely with this observation, which is why I never rely on Wikipedia alone. I have found it to be a good starting place for a large number of inquiries of a general nature. The articles are frequently supplemented with links that lead to more trustworthy sources.

 

[Caesar]

I agree completely with this observation, which is why I never rely on Wikipedia alone. I have found it to be a good starting place for a large number of inquiries of a general nature. The articles are frequently supplemented with links that lead to more trustworthy sources.

Most schools and Colleges no longer allow students to use Wikipedia as a source.

 

[childofmary1143]

Many “ifs”. Still, the consequence of willingness to sue the diocese and bishops means that the bishop and diocese has the obligation to consult legal consul to safegard the funds on behalf of all the parishoners from whose pockets it comes. As a Catholic that donates money to my diocese and parish, those who sue, are suing me, and thus are my advisary.

I disagree. Once you give your money away you give away any say you have in it. If you disagree with how its spent, don’t give it away. Yes it is sad that all that money you gave to your good Priest, Church will go to people affected by this scandal but who’s fault is that? Certainly not the victims of the abuse. It is true that money won’t really help them but with some bishops like any big corporations will only change, when faced with a multi million lawsuit.

In Canada the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops gave Catholic couples the permission to use artificial birth control just after Pope Paul VI wrote Humanae Vitae. Why? Because people would leave the church and collections would be down in the plate.

 

[OriginalJS]

In Canada the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops gave Catholic couples the permission to use artificial birth control just after Pope Paul VI wrote Humanae Vitae. Why? Because people would leave the church and collections would be down in the plate.

As you sure? This seems shocking. Can you refer me to some authority for this statement? I checked the website for the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops and noted that one of their releases states they are celebrating 30 years of Humanae Vitae.

 

[michaelmac]

As you sure? This seems shocking. Can you refer me to some authority for this statement?

Why are you shocked , After what has gone on world wide with the Catholic church and cover up of the abuse of children and the sexual abuse of children , Religious orders dumped childern in adult Mental hospitals for the criminaly insane yours michael

 

[Caesar]

Why are you shocked , After what has gone on world wide with the Catholic church and cover up of the abuse of children and the sexual abuse of children , Religious orders dumped childern in adult Mental hospitals for the criminaly insane yours michael

Once again, thank you for sharing. I get to see the other side of the picture here.

And, btw, yes the Canadian Bishops did allow such a thing. Liberals