Is Morality possible without God

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Wait, are you kidding? THAT, sir, is a historical fact. That western values have their root in Christianity is not up for debate.
 
oldnskeptical said:
Yes, if the circumstances warrant it.
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What if the circumstances are, I feel like it because the kid has a different skin color than me? You can’t know for certain that’s wrong, so it’s not, apperently.
 
Do you ever have doubts about believing “I don’t know.”

(Someone once told me that if I have doubts about my belief then I may be wrong, and if I don’t have doubts about what I believe then I’m delusional.)
 
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First. I’m not trying to convince you the world would be less moral without Christianity. (Although I do believe that)

What I’m saying is current western values come out of Catholic and Christian history. That’s a simple matter of fact.
 
My take?

Morality is totally possible without God. But it becomes subjective morality rather than objective morality.

Subjective morality is fine when trying to govern the moral environment of your home. But when trying to govern the moral environment of a nation, the law must be based on something that at least appears objective in order to facilitate it’s own function.

God and the associated morality might not actually exist after all, but humans require them nonetheless else every society on the planet wouldn’t have evolved religion in all its facets.

The only conundrum in realizing this is that it saps the objective, transcending power of the religious/moral schema. A delimma, to be sure. But the fact still remains that it’s easier to accept “X is wrong” because our ancestors and their prophets said so in the name of All-Mighty God rather than “Me and the boys were having beers down on 5th street and decided ‘X’ was wrong…”
 
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I agree. Christianity is the pillar of western civilization.
 
Unsubstantiated??.. I don’t know what you consider history, but look at laws and values associated in our country today and many of them trace their roots straight back to catholic/Christian teaching and principles.
 
But sadly, like much of Israel did not recognize The Messiah Jesus Christ;
much of the West rejects Jesus Christ or tries to make Him in their image.
Instead of compassionate and forgiving → strengthener to let Him help grow in virtue
and avoid sin; much of the West, have formed a forgiving and permissive false Christ.
This is only one facet of the ‘powerful delusion,’ spoken of by Paul The Apostle.
Bishop Fulton J. Sheen warned it was taking hold before 1950; and most
will not recognize the Remnant Church surrounded by a larger Church that looks the
same to most.
Many things gave power to this fog of accepted evil - many times calling it good.
Partly the hypocrisy of hurtful Christians over history.
But The Holy Bible says God allowed this by our free will, and to see who will choose
the peace and harmony of God; or narcissistic self serving as ‘God.’ Which takes many
forms. Only Jesus Christ from an impartial view, knows hearts who are temporarily given
over; and those who will repent. But over all there is a massive apostasy.
One day The West will realize we were raise up for the very purpose of sharing The Gospel.
Only God knows the consequences of what has transpired.
 
First we need the definition of “morality” from the official atheist dictionary. Since there is no atheist culture which is not a sub-set of a larger predominantly religious culture, they cannot claim to be free of influence by religion.

Reversing the question: If immorality is natural even with God, it is likely, almost certain, without Him.
 
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The Ten Commandments are a good start. Then there’s the two commandments in the New Testament. Then there’s plenty of moral guidance in the Catechism.
 
Yes.
If there is any doubt you can always seek the guidance of a priest.

(Going offline now, apologies.)
 
Modern atheists enjoy the benefit of living in societies that have been underpinned by religious Philosophy since history began. So it would be difficult to identify anywhere on the planet that has a moral ethos based solely on secularism.

As mentioned earlier when the Transcendent moral base like God disappears then morality becomes a questionable thing as to whether or not It even exists. For example why is theft wrong? that becomes an honest question as we see the mightier take from the weaker in the animal kingdom on a regular basis.
 
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oldnskeptical said:
What if the circumstances are, I feel like it because the kid has a different skin color than me?
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??? Did you read what I wrote???

How can you know what circumstances make it moral or immoral? Sounds like you need to reference something absolute or everything is permissible under any circumstances.
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Ah so “give me the circumstances and I’ll tell you if it’s moral” isn’t something you actually mean. Alright. Bye.
 
Yes morality exists without a deity. You just need entities that have the ability to morally assess a situation. Whether or not they come to a correct response to the moral assessment is different than having the ability to assess it though.
If you are asking about absolutes for morality, depends on your subjective reference point of what good and bad are measured against. For example, take the goal of healthy life through the process of nutrition. Is it better to eat apples or oranges? Not really in reference to nutrition. But it is absolutely wrong to drink battery acid. And absolutely correct to eat fruits and vegetables. Same with the reference point of human well-being as the goal through moral assessment. Is it better to say thank you or shake someone’s hand in gratitude? Doesn’t really matter. But it is absolutely good go show gratitude. It is absolutely wrong to have patriarchy, racism, slavery, child abuse, fascism, anti-science, etc.
 
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Atheist and agnostic can be highly moral people. But I believe nothing would exist without God. The very nature of knowing right from wrong is from God weather or not the atheist or agnostic would know it or admit it.
 
So you maintain that there are objective value truths about situations and things for moral judgments to be based on?
 
Yes once you subjectively select a reference point of what good and bad are from that reference point. Just like a number line. We subjectively select zero as the reference point. But it still works if you use a different point on that number line. If you create a Venn Diagram about human moral reference points, the most overlapping reference point is human well-being it seems. But that’s still subjective to some people, but to others like me, its just the natural result. Like gravity. Humans are observable in reality and we can study and actually document what supports the this species to thrive. So based on the point of the human experience, what is moral? Moral is what we can understand to be moral since we have to understand the situation and make moral judgments. So we are the reference point of what is good or bad since we have to understand what is good or bad. It makes no sense to say X is good or bad if the person making the moral assessment of it can’t understand why. Its just a pronouncement to that person.
You can still be wrong about your moral assessment though since you don’t know everything or might not have the ability to.
 
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Damian said:
Same with the reference point of human well-being as the goal through moral assessment.
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This is the New Atheist answer to the question, but its really just pseudo-religion since it’s not measurable or even objectively identifiable.

As some have pointed out previously, “Human well-being” sounds suspiciously similar to utilitarianism. Who isn’t aware of individual horrors that have been committed in the name of the greater good?

“Human well-being” is trading one sky-fairy for another.
 
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