Is Mozart, the Freemason "Offlimits" for Traditional Catholics?
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Malcolm_McLean
Guest
Some occult organisations have or claim to have a Freemason-like lodge structure. The problem is that unless you make a career out of investigating these people you never know what is real and what is fantasy.
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DL82
Guest
My great uncle was a Grand Master freemason, and my great aunt did not hand back his masonic manuals when he died, as was supposed to happen. When she died, they came to my dad. I have to admit, curiosity got the better of me.
Though there is a lot blanked out of the manuals, so that they are not easy to understand, I can say without much doubt that their beliefs are duplicitous and deceitful.
At initiation, a freemason is told that they must believe in a supreme power, they can carry on worshipping that power “the Architect” in whatever way they have been used to, e.g. by going to church, mosque, temple, etc.
Gradually, at the next stage, Platonist teachings are introduced which say that ‘the Architect’ is in fact the ‘Demiurge’, an imperfect deity who imprisons our light in matter.
As a master mason, however, they are taught that there is no resurrection, so there is no reason to worship the deity, but only to live their lives as they choose.
This much I know for myself for certain.
What else I can say is that many have said that at the Grand Master stage a freemason is taught to worship the ‘light-bringer’, Lucifer, who can liberate us from the imperfect creation of the Architect/Demiurge. That seems entirely consistent with the earlier stages of their false teaching.
At the very least, we can say that they are:
a) decietful to their own initiates
b) deniers of Christ and of the resurrection
and possibly:
c) luciferians/satanists at their core
Having said this, the vast majority of freemasons are just in it as a back-scratching businessmens’ club, they don’t care about any of the spiritual side, nor will they ever progress beyond the first level. This is sad for them, as they will never know that they are being deceived.
I don’t know what rank Mozart reached, but I doubt that any of his music is going to turn us into heretics, any more than would listening to the speeches of the Protestant Martin Luther King or looking at the artwork of the Jewish Lucian Freud. The glory of the nations will be brought into the Kingdom of God, so if there is anything good or beautiful among non-Catholics we can still appreciate the beauty without being compromised. Otherwise it would be a very boring and bland faith indeed if we could only expose ourselves to authors/musicians/entertainers/artists/ideas from orthodox Catholics.
Sorry, off topic.
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ABostonCatholic
Guest
Our first Pope did a bang up job the night of Christ’s death. How many apostles were at the foot of the cross?
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jbuck919
Guest
I’ve been away from the forums, so once again I apologize for posting on a long thread without checking every post, but I have two degrees in classical music, and Mozart never considered himself, nor should he be considered by others, as anything but a faithful Catholic. He became a Mason along with many other extremely Catholic Austrian countrymen before it was clearly prohibited from Rome. I do not understand the reasons, which seem foolish to modern observers, but he cannot be blamed in a moral sense for his decision, nor is he in any sense off limits to Catholic listeners, who would simply be out of their minds to ignore so great and Catholic an artist for so slight a reason.
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Lance
Guest
What does that have to do with the topic at hand? We are all not only capable of doing evil but do it every day. I see nothing wrong with listening to Mozart.
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Caesar
Guest
It’s not like I’m saying that I love protestantism and want to be a freemason.
I dont like Mozart because he was a Mason, but because he composed trully beautiful music. Likewise my fondess for the works of Bach is not because he was a Lutheran. Yes, it is unfortunate that Bach was a Lutheran, and it is sad that -Mozart was a Freemason, but I fail to see how these facts detracted from their works. Protestant or not, Bach was a musical genius; and Mozart’s great musical talents had little to do with him being a Mason.
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Caesar
Guest
It’s not like I’m saying that I love protestantism and want to be a freemason.
I dont like Mozart because he was a Mason, but because he composed trully beautiful music. Likewise my fondess for the works of Bach is not because he was a Lutheran. Yes, it is unfortunate that Bach was a Lutheran, and it is sad that -Mozart was a Freemason, but I fail to see how these facts detracted from their works. Protestant or not, Bach was a musical genius; and Mozart’s great musical talents had little to do with him being a Mason.
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St_Isidore
Guest
QUAESITUM EST
Declaration on Masonic Associations
Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
…Therefore, the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and, therefore, membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful, who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.
…In an audience granted to the undersigned cardinal prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this sacred congregation.
Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Nov. 26, 1983
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger Prefect
Father Jerome Hamer, O. P. Titular Archbishop of Lorium
Secretary
( ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFMASN2.HTM)
I hope this helps with the confusion about freemasonary.
Declaration on Masonic Associations
Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
…Therefore, the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and, therefore, membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful, who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.
…In an audience granted to the undersigned cardinal prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this sacred congregation.
Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Nov. 26, 1983
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger Prefect
Father Jerome Hamer, O. P. Titular Archbishop of Lorium
Secretary
( ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFMASN2.HTM)
I hope this helps with the confusion about freemasonary.
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St_Isidore
Guest
Cardinal Ratzinger’s Declaration
With these official statements of the Universal Church now on record,(A summary of this documentation was made available in this country by the American Bishops’ Committee for Pastoral Research and Practice, in a report entitled “Masonry and Naturalistic Religion,” published in <Origins,> 15 (June 27,1985), pp. 83-84.) it should be clear that** the lamentable confusion of so many Catholics regarding Freemasonry must be seen as only a temporary aberration—to be written off as one most costly consequence of a mindless “spirit of Vatican II.”** But we may hope that, as in other issues that have plagued the Church in the last score of years, there is a providence in this, a veritable blessing in disguise. For now, more clearly than ever before, we should see just why the Catholic Church has been—and will always be—so opposed to Masonry.
…Catholicism and Freemasonry are therefore essentially opposed…
Since the Church’s claim to be the One True Church is ultimately founded and validated on the reality of the One True God, the opposing Masonic claim must ultimately derive from a perception of God that diametrically opposes the Church’s faith. And so it does. Although Pope Leo does not explicitly speak of this essential opposition between Catholicism and Masonry in terms of the First Commandment of God—“I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have strange gods before me”—surely the most radical and simplest way of situating this opposition is to say just this. The Masonic “God” is an <idol.> What the Masons really worship is —or the Spirit who has deceived man from the beginning: the masked Spirit of Evil. This is the one primal reason why the Catholic Church has condemned, and will always condemn, Freemasonry. It is clearly sufficient to stand by itself as the reason—and in a most fundamental sense, as Leo XIII seems to imply, that is the only reason in fact.
( ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/BACAFM.HTM)
Case closed.
With these official statements of the Universal Church now on record,(A summary of this documentation was made available in this country by the American Bishops’ Committee for Pastoral Research and Practice, in a report entitled “Masonry and Naturalistic Religion,” published in <Origins,> 15 (June 27,1985), pp. 83-84.) it should be clear that** the lamentable confusion of so many Catholics regarding Freemasonry must be seen as only a temporary aberration—to be written off as one most costly consequence of a mindless “spirit of Vatican II.”** But we may hope that, as in other issues that have plagued the Church in the last score of years, there is a providence in this, a veritable blessing in disguise. For now, more clearly than ever before, we should see just why the Catholic Church has been—and will always be—so opposed to Masonry.
…Catholicism and Freemasonry are therefore essentially opposed…
Since the Church’s claim to be the One True Church is ultimately founded and validated on the reality of the One True God, the opposing Masonic claim must ultimately derive from a perception of God that diametrically opposes the Church’s faith. And so it does. Although Pope Leo does not explicitly speak of this essential opposition between Catholicism and Masonry in terms of the First Commandment of God—“I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have strange gods before me”—surely the most radical and simplest way of situating this opposition is to say just this. The Masonic “God” is an <idol.> What the Masons really worship is —or the Spirit who has deceived man from the beginning: the masked Spirit of Evil. This is the one primal reason why the Catholic Church has condemned, and will always condemn, Freemasonry. It is clearly sufficient to stand by itself as the reason—and in a most fundamental sense, as Leo XIII seems to imply, that is the only reason in fact.
( ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/BACAFM.HTM)
Case closed.
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bkovacs
Guest
No!!. I love Mozart, Bach, and a variety of classical music. Pope Benedict XVI is even a Mozart fan from what I have read. If you got good taste in music then classical music is where it’s at. Popularity in classical music is growing, even among the younger people. Classical music like Mozart’s Requiem, Bach Mass in B Minor, Tallis, Gregorian Chant, and the beloved Hildegard von Bigen play a very important role in Traditional Catholic spirituality and is a great companion to the Tridentine Mass. Check this parish website bulletin from a FSSP parish in Canada. Look under Music at todays Mass.
divinemercy.ca/bulletins/apr08-07.pdf
Classical
divinemercy.ca/bulletins/apr08-07.pdf
Classical
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AJV
Guest
See, for example, Tra le Sollecitudini Mozart’s Masses do not have that kind of ‘prayeful’ feeling. It’s more operatic. The spirit is entirely independent of its musical genius (of which, not being very musically inclined I’m hardly in a position to comment on). Moreover some aspects of his music don’t go with the rubrics of the Traditional missal. For example, the celebrant only is supposed to intone the opening of the Gloria-which would definitely not go with some of his compositions…
I see the previous poster included Tallis and Gregorian chant along with Mozart. Personally, I find there is something different between a Mass of Tallis or Byrd and one of Mozart’s. Though a few of his works (like his Ave Verum Corpus) are different and excellent.
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Biblioassistant
Guest
Pope Benedict loves Mozart and so do I. I think Bach was a genius. I think Ave Verum Corpus is one of the most beautiful things I have ever listened to.
So Mozart was a Mason. If I remember rightly, back in his day that was the equivalent of joining an anti-establishment protest group.
So Mozart was a Mason. If I remember rightly, back in his day that was the equivalent of joining an anti-establishment protest group.
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AJV
Guest
See, for example, Tra le Sollecitudini Mozart’s Masses do not have that kind of ‘prayeful’ feeling. It’s more operatic. The spirit is entirely independent of its musical genius (of which, not being very musically inclined I’m hardly in a position to comment on). Moreover some aspects of his music don’t go with the rubrics of the Traditional missal. For example, the celebrant only is supposed to intone the opening of the Gloria-which would definitely not go with some of his compositions.
I see a previous poster included Tallis and Gregorian chant along with Mozart. Personally, I find there is something different between a Mass of Tallis or Byrd and one of Mozart’s. Though his Ave Verum Corpus is excellent.
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St_Isidore
Guest
…who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.…No!!. I love Mozart, Bach, and a variety of classical music. Pope Benedict XVI is even a Mozart fan from what I have read. If you got good taste in music then classical music is where it’s at. Popularity in classical music is growing, even among the younger people. Classical music like Mozart’s Requiem, Bach Mass in B Minor, Tallis, Gregorian Chant, and the beloved Hildegard von Bigen play a very important role in Traditional Catholic spirituality and is a great companion to the Tridentine Mass. Check this parish website bulletin from a FSSP parish in Canada. Look under Music at todays Mass.
divinemercy.ca/bulletins/apr08-07.pdf
Classical
…Catholicism and Freemasonry are therefore essentially opposed…
…opposing Masonic claim must ultimately derive from a perception of God that diametrically opposes the Church’s faith…
…The Masonic “God” is an <idol.>…
(see post #29-#30)
What shall we do with these statements then? Should their be a disclaimer that freemasonry is in opposition to Christ (therefore not of Christ), but their music is okay?
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Bennie_P
Guest
I oppose the Mason’s but,
By this logic we in America should disregard the Declaration of Independance? written by a Mason.
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Caesar
Guest
Their music? Mozart’s works werent propaganda for the Freemasons, and listening to his pieces doesnt make one a Freemason either.
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Caesar
Guest
I reminded that Michelangelo was a homosexual. Perhaps we should plaster over the Sistine Chapel ceiling and smash the Pieta to rid the Church of such homosexual artwork. It is their artwork after all.
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St_Isidore
Guest
It was not my intention, but if you are saying that promotes homosexuality, then I think you may have a point. Thou hast said it, not I.
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Jean_Anthony
Guest
This thread is veering off topic. Please return to the original topic, folks. Thank you for your cooperation.
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