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exoflare
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Eden said:
The sad thing is, he probably knew that already and just hoped you wouldn’t notice.
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The sad thing is, he probably knew that already and just hoped you wouldn’t notice.
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Eden
Guest
fredomm is fond of showing examples of Christians who “converted” to Islam. Unfortunately, Muslims who move in the opposite direction are fearful of openly sharing their conversions:
**Converts from Islam. If you leave Allah, you’ll regret it. **
by Sandro Magister
*Muslims who become Catholics are taking great risks. But in Italy anyone who tries it, does it secretly. *
Mohammed Abd-el-Jalil is a Moroccan, from Fez, but he cannot go home any more. His own family have declared war. On him. Ever since the day they learned that he had been baptized.
Anyone who converts to Catholicism, among the millions of Muslim immigrants in Europe, has a hard life. Two Egyptians who had come to Italy a few years before and went over to the Catholic faith, first had to change cities, following threats, and then emigrate to Canada. Anyone who converts to Islam may well become a celebrity, like the ex-ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Mario Scialoja. But those who make the reverse journey had better think of hiding.
In Italy converts from Islam to Catholicism are a new phenomenon. But they encounter the same difficulties already experienced in countries with an older and more numerous immigrant community, like France and Great Britain. The Italian Bishops’ Conference published an instruction book at the beginning of 2001. This is typical: “In order to make him welcome, it is important to secure from the catechumen discretion about his course, which will be known only in the safe haven of the catechumnate.”
Catechumens are adults who are preparing for baptism. But not only the preparation, but also the baptism itself is celebrated in secret. In France and Great Britain, after decades of conversions, the wall of silence is beginning to break and the stories peep through with names and surnames. It is possible to read them in the fine book by Jean-Marie Gaudeul, Vengono dall’Islam (They Come from Islam), published by EMI (Editrice Missionaria Italiana). But not in Italy. It continues to be forbidden to tell anything except the location where the conversion took place.
Don Walther Ruspi, the official of the Italian Bishops’ Conference responsible for the catechumenate in Italy, avoids even giving precise statistics. He knows that about half of the converts from Islam to Catholicism are Albanians. And these are in the least danger, because in Albania, after decades of state-sponsored atheism, Islam is a matter of registration, with weak social control. But for anyone who is North African, or Syrian, or Pakistani, the risk is serious. “To leave Islam is to betray the community. The family is dishonored and must sever all contact with the reprobate. In many countries he risks the death penalty.”
The silence of the Church, then, can be explained by the fear of giving the impression of proselytizing. “We have decided not to encourage conversions in any way,” says a leader of the Bishops’ Office for Migrants (Fondazione Migrantes), “whatever Cardinal Giacomo Biffi thinks about it.” Of course, because Biffi seems to take the opposite position. “Preaching and baptism ought to be a requirement for the Church,” he says. “Jesus did not command us: preach the Gospel to every creature except Muslims, Jews, and the Dalai Lama.”
**Converts from Islam. If you leave Allah, you’ll regret it. **
by Sandro Magister
*Muslims who become Catholics are taking great risks. But in Italy anyone who tries it, does it secretly. *
Mohammed Abd-el-Jalil is a Moroccan, from Fez, but he cannot go home any more. His own family have declared war. On him. Ever since the day they learned that he had been baptized.
Anyone who converts to Catholicism, among the millions of Muslim immigrants in Europe, has a hard life. Two Egyptians who had come to Italy a few years before and went over to the Catholic faith, first had to change cities, following threats, and then emigrate to Canada. Anyone who converts to Islam may well become a celebrity, like the ex-ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Mario Scialoja. But those who make the reverse journey had better think of hiding.
In Italy converts from Islam to Catholicism are a new phenomenon. But they encounter the same difficulties already experienced in countries with an older and more numerous immigrant community, like France and Great Britain. The Italian Bishops’ Conference published an instruction book at the beginning of 2001. This is typical: “In order to make him welcome, it is important to secure from the catechumen discretion about his course, which will be known only in the safe haven of the catechumnate.”
Catechumens are adults who are preparing for baptism. But not only the preparation, but also the baptism itself is celebrated in secret. In France and Great Britain, after decades of conversions, the wall of silence is beginning to break and the stories peep through with names and surnames. It is possible to read them in the fine book by Jean-Marie Gaudeul, Vengono dall’Islam (They Come from Islam), published by EMI (Editrice Missionaria Italiana). But not in Italy. It continues to be forbidden to tell anything except the location where the conversion took place.
Don Walther Ruspi, the official of the Italian Bishops’ Conference responsible for the catechumenate in Italy, avoids even giving precise statistics. He knows that about half of the converts from Islam to Catholicism are Albanians. And these are in the least danger, because in Albania, after decades of state-sponsored atheism, Islam is a matter of registration, with weak social control. But for anyone who is North African, or Syrian, or Pakistani, the risk is serious. “To leave Islam is to betray the community. The family is dishonored and must sever all contact with the reprobate. In many countries he risks the death penalty.”
The silence of the Church, then, can be explained by the fear of giving the impression of proselytizing. “We have decided not to encourage conversions in any way,” says a leader of the Bishops’ Office for Migrants (Fondazione Migrantes), “whatever Cardinal Giacomo Biffi thinks about it.” Of course, because Biffi seems to take the opposite position. “Preaching and baptism ought to be a requirement for the Church,” he says. “Jesus did not command us: preach the Gospel to every creature except Muslims, Jews, and the Dalai Lama.”
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exoflare
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Yeah I forget which site I first read this on but it’s a good point. We have to make sure to be prepared to make the Church the FIRST home for Muslim converts (even above their “real” home) because their family and any close aquaintances they had before are most likely going to forsake them or even worse. I’ll say one thing, anyone who took this step deserves major kudos for courage! 
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Eden
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Definitely.Yeah I forget which site I first read this on but it’s a good point. We have to make sure to be prepared to make the Church the FIRST home for Muslim converts (even above their “real” home) because their family and any close aquaintances they had before are most likely going to forsake them or even worse. I’ll say one thing, anyone who took this step deserves major kudos for courage!
I usually give the link but perhaps the site would get retribution.
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exoflare
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perhaps = probably, here.Definitely.
I usually give the link but perhaps the site would get retribution.
That’s just how it is with these things.
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freedomm
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But you need to be more carefull when converting any Hindu to Christianity, nowadays. Remember what Hindu did with Australian Christian missionary in India not too long ago?
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exoflare
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Maybe, I dunno. What does that have to do with this?
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onesimplemind
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Chop of his head?
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freedomm
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Dear Eden:
A Muslim who knows what Islam is will never convert to other faith.
As far your saying “Muslims who move in the opposite direction are fearful of openly sharing their conversions”, you first need to ponder on this:
A Dublin woman has asked the Censorship Board to ban the Bible, claiming that it endorses the sexual abuse of young girls, glorifies violence and supports mutilation.
emigrant.ie/article.asp?iCategoryID=200&iArticleID=11935 ]
emigrant.ie/article.asp?iCategoryID=200&iArticleID=11935 ]
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Eden
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You left out this part:
She is clearly a loony bin and they are making fun of her. You had to find an obscure newspaper from Ireland from 1988 to attack the Bible? And as a response to the article about the fear converts from Islam feel? That’s stretching it a bit, don’t you think?
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freedomm
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------Qoute------
“Conversion to Christianity is a highly controversial issue in India. In January 1999, Australian missionary Graham Staines and his two sons were burned alive, allegedly by Hindu fundamentalists who accused Staines of converting tribal peoples.”
Details:
hrwf.net/html/india_2003.html
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Eden
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freedomm said:
Freedomm seems to vicariously enjoy sharing these kinds of stories of violence against Christians.
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Eden
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freedomm
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Dear Eden:
I simply qouted a part of the news. And yes, it is a little older news but from an another angle:
BEDSIDE BIBLE BAN STILL BEING CONSIDERED
The University Hospitals of Leicester NHS Trust is still considering banning bibles from the bedside, despite sending out emails claiming that “Leicester hospitals are not banning bibles” Christian Voice has learned
Details:
[christianvoice.org.uk/Alerts/alert002.html]](http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/Alerts/alert002.html])
I hope this link is not an “an obscure newspaper”.
The University Hospitals of Leicester NHS Trust is still considering banning bibles from the bedside, despite sending out emails claiming that “Leicester hospitals are not banning bibles” Christian Voice has learned
Details:
[christianvoice.org.uk/Alerts/alert002.html]](http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/Alerts/alert002.html])
I hope this link is not an “an obscure newspaper”.
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onesimplemind
Guest
freedomm said:
Thank you fredomm you proved a good point. Thank you for putting yourself on record in order to back up my observations.
I always marvel out how muslims try to pit other religions against each other. The Talmud insults Mary, Christians slaughtered Jews in the Inquisition, Hindus burn alive Christians, blah blah blah blah blah.
Is it an Islamic precept to refer to one religion to gain some kind of legitimacy then find a way to try and detract from that religion so as not to give the other religion any legitamcy in turn?
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Eden
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It didn’t work for me.
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Eden
Guest
I was able to do a google search and found it. It’s an article about bibles being stored in closets at a hospital so as not to offend non-Christians. It’s not even the same story that you gave from the Irish paper, so why did you underline the word “still”?
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freedomm
Guest
Proverbs
Chapter 31
The New American Bible
6 **Give strong drink to one who is perishing, and wine to the sorely depressed; **
7 When they drink, they will forget their misery, and think no more of their burdens
[usccb.org/nab/bible/proverbs/proverb31.htm]](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/proverbs/proverb31.htm])
Chapter 31
The New American Bible
6 **Give strong drink to one who is perishing, and wine to the sorely depressed; **
7 When they drink, they will forget their misery, and think no more of their burdens
[usccb.org/nab/bible/proverbs/proverb31.htm]](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/proverbs/proverb31.htm])
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freedomm
Guest
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freedomm
Guest
-------Qoute--------
“Pope Innocent III in 1199 banned private readings of the Bible as a reaction to the Cathar and Waldensian heresies. The synods of Toulouse and Tarragona (1234) outlawed possession of Bible translations.”
See under sub-heading ‘Middle Ages’ :
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_translation ]
“Pope Innocent III in 1199 banned private readings of the Bible as a reaction to the Cathar and Waldensian heresies. The synods of Toulouse and Tarragona (1234) outlawed possession of Bible translations.”
See under sub-heading ‘Middle Ages’ :
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_translation ]
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