Is NFP more of a cross than a blessing to you?

[truetofaith]

But that creates an unnatural division for what sex IS.

(Not to mention it’s far from guaranteed that contraceptives will prevent pregnancy. I had four different women, completely unsolicited, inform me of their “pill babies” when I was pregnant with my second. One of them was a nurse.)

Abstinence is the only “guarantee.” We have the moral option to abstain completely or abstain periodically (NFP). Abstinence is hard. It’s a cross.

I can’t speak toward other couples’ reasons for abstaining, but I know for my husband and me it would take us a LOT to be willing to really practice abstinence - it would probably have to be a matter of life or death. I could not tolerate having to sleep in separate rooms, for example, which several couples have stated here that they do. I’d rather endure the hardships of pregnancy, delivery, and having another mouth to feed. I know we won’t starve. We have built up a good support system to help us. I’ve learned how to live incredibly frugally. I tend to handle the stress of pregnancy and the newborn phase pretty well, even though I tend toward PPD.

That said, I am glad I know how to chart, because you never know what will happen.

The Rhythm Method is more of a cross than abstinence. At least you know you won’t have a child. With calendars & charts, you may still be adding to your family.

 

[truetofaith]

Yes, and that does not make it correct or less sinful.
I am nor sure your point other than that the Church could do a better job in formations of priests…

Do you wish to start a thread on why ABC is an evil or why the pill cannot be used for contraception in Catholicism? Or you could read the thousands of threads detailing the theology of this concept.

Hopefully God is more understanding than the Church.

 

[sailor28]

Hopefully God is more understanding than the Church.

Well, that is the truth right there. God is more understanding than the legalism of the church.
For me personally, I don’t look to the Magisterium to be God.

 

[pensmama87]

The Rhythm Method is more of a cross than abstinence. At least you know you won’t have a child. With calendars & charts, you may still be adding to your family.

I think you are confused.

NFP /= rhythm method (if I recall, you made this error on another thread, and you were corrected.)

NFP involves abstaining - periodically, based on fertility signals. If said signals are hard to interpret, and a couple discerns that they should avoid pregnancy, it makes sense to abstain more, or use more checks to confirm fertility.

The rhythm method is a gamble, completely, because it assumes information that cannot be assumed (a standard cycle length, for one.)

 

[pensmama87]

There are couples who give up contraception for completely secular reasons in favor of fertility awareness methods/natural family planning. I did, and that actually went a long way toward helping me to understanding and embracing Church teaching on sexuality.

I was on hormonal birth control for several years and it was so awful I had to give it up. I am thankful I didn’t experience the lasting damage that happens to some women (total loss of libido, for instance.)

I’d rather not mess with my body chemistry, thanks. And in a recent thread I mentioned that barrier methods aren’t peachy, either.

 

[gardenswithkids]

I pray that you also receive the gift of wisdom from the Holy Spirit. That you may come to see that someone can disagree with the church and still love God deeply.

I don’t call myself a cafeteria Catholic. I’m sure everyone here at CAF has things they emphasis or ignore in Catholic teaching which goes way beyond contraception.

I speak out because I have seen marriages be harmed by NFP.

Couples need to decide if their cross is from God or from Pharisees who ask them to carry heavy burdens that they are not suppose to carry.

Again, Sailor, I tell you your comments mock many here. Following Church teachings is harder yet when one member of a couple decides people like you are right while the spouse’s conscience says it’s not okay. I speak out to you because you encourage people to doubt that the Church teaches truth, but some of those people may have a spouse who wants to follow Church teachings. Those doubts you encourage add to the weight of the cross carried by person’s faithful Catholic spouse. Fighting about whether to use NFP vs. artificial contraceptives harms marriages far more than NFP.

And yes, I know that someone can love God deeply while disagreeing with the Church , as I know many Protestants who love God deeply. I’ll tell you what I tell my Protestant relatives: my trust is in Jesus and the Holy Spirit to protect the Church from error.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Hopefully God is more understanding than the Church.

And hopefully when we wound the Church through our rejection of Her, that does not wound God…

(Except that it does.)

 

[Kelfa28]

There are couples who give up contraception for completely secular reasons in favor of fertility awareness methods/natural family planning. I did, and that actually went a long way toward helping me to understanding and embracing Church teaching on sexuality.

I was on hormonal birth control for several years and it was so awful I had to give it up. I am thankful I didn’t experience the lasting damage that happens to some women (total loss of libido, for instance.)

I’d rather not mess with my body chemistry, thanks. And in a recent thread I mentioned that barrier methods aren’t peachy, either.

I agree. I took the pill before I became Catholic and I hated it. I stopped taking it and started looking for alternatives and happened to come across Taking Charge of Your Fertility and was thinking about using that instead.

The pill destroyed my libido while I was on it. I was also getting pains in both of my legs and I knew the pill was notorious for blood clots…I stopped taking it, not because of Church teaching but because I couldn’t stand what the pill was doing to my body.

Here is the thing.
I argue that NFP is a cross and nothing more. I don’t advocate the use of contraceptive use for a lot of different reasons.
I’m not entirely sold on the idea of Tubal Ligation/Vasectomies either because it’s such a permanent solution and I don’t want to think “what if…”
Plus, I love The Church and I Love God.

I just get frustrated when people try to argue that NFP is a good thing and it benefits a marriage. I don’t believe that.
No more then I believe that ABC is a good thing and benefits a marriage.
Both have their issues but only one is intrinsically evil.

It’s true I hate being pregnant. I wish my pregnancies weren’t so hard on me. I hate being perpetually pregnant or nursing. That is not all I’m capable of as a woman.

It’s really hard to not feel that way and when your pregnancies are tough and you can’t seem to space kids father then 20 months apart…it gets aggravating and you wish you can find alternatives to a so-called “problem”.

I’ve come to peace with the fact that I have to use NFP and pray that we can make it work.

 

[truetofaith]

And hopefully when we wound the Church through our rejection of Her, that does not wound God…

(Except that it does.)

Nobody’s rejecting the Church…just questioning the tough stance on not granting dispensation in certain cases of people with financial burdens or health issues in their marriage.
Of course, they can abstain until the wife finishes menopause.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

Nobody’s rejecting the Church…just questioning the tough stance on not granting dispensation in certain cases of people with financial burdens or health issues in their marriage.
Of course, they can abstain until the wife finishes menopause.

I’m not Catholic, but from what I have read, that wouldn’t work. It is my understanding that not being open to life is a sin. So, i would think that abstaining for a long period of time would be a sin as well. If i am wrong in my thinking, someone please correct me.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Nobody’s rejecting the Church…just questioning the tough stance on not granting dispensation in certain cases of people with financial burdens or health issues in their marriage.
Of course, they can abstain until the wife finishes menopause.

You are misusing some terminology that you should try to be more accurate on. NFP vs Rhythm method. And what a dispensation is.

The Church has no power to give a dispensation to a grave matter. You cannot receive a dispensation to sin. The Church cannot grant this to a married couple just as it cannot grant a dispensation to kill someone for their food because you are hungry.

It is a wonder to me that these “tough stances” almost always have to do with sexual organs and the control thereof.

In the time of Jesus the “Hard teaching” was about eating flesh. And many walked away. There was no dispensation. There was no change, no survey, no making it easier. What there was, ended up being an invitation to carry a cross, watch a death, and die yourself.

The vehicle for God’s mercy is the Church. This is how it has been set up from the beginning. This is how Original sin is given mercy, this is how we receive grace and Knowledge of our Lord. This is how we receive His forgiveness and hear His voice and commands. Mercy is synonymous with the Church. As is Justice. You cannot pit God’s Mercy against the very vehicle of salvation which is the ultimate Mercy. the Divine Mercy.

 

[truetofaith]

You are misusing some terminology that you should try to be more accurate on. NFP vs Rhythm method. And what a dispensation is.

The Church has no power to give a dispensation to a grave matter. You cannot receive a dispensation to sin. The Church cannot grant this to a married couple just as it cannot grant a dispensation to kill someone for their food because you are hungry.

It is a wonder to me that these “tough stances” almost always have to do with sexual organs and the control thereof.

In the time of Jesus the “Hard teaching” was about eating flesh. And many walked away. There was no dispensation. There was no change, no survey, no making it easier. What there was, ended up being an invitation to carry a cross, watch a death, and die yourself.

The vehicle for God’s mercy is the Church. This is how it has been set up from the beginning. This is how Original sin is given mercy, this is how we receive grace and Knowledge of our Lord. This is how we receive His forgiveness and hear His voice and commands. Mercy is synonymous with the Church. As is Justice. You cannot pit God’s Mercy against the very vehicle of salvation which is the ultimate Mercy. the Divine Mercy.

My confusion on NFP & rhythm is not the problem. To me they are just about the same.

The problem I see in this whole Topic is the pain many posters are experiencing because they are trying to follow the Church’s teaching…not because they hate kids or want to go on expensive vacations…but after having kids and maybe health issues, they have to sleep in separate bedrooms, abstain from sex with their spouses, chart and still be afraid of getting another child.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

My confusion on NFP & rhythm is not the problem. To me they are just about the same.That is too bad and it either shows that you either have an ignorance of the issue or are attempting to discredit it because you do not agree

The problem I see in this whole Topic is the pain many posters are experiencing because they are trying to follow the Church’s teaching…not because they hate kids or want to go on expensive vacations…but after having kids and maybe health issues, they have to sleep in separate bedrooms,I absolutely agree that this is a problem and is not how things should be. The answer of course is not to turn away from the Church and defile their own union with sin! abstain from sex with their spouses,Something everyone has to do at some time chart and still be afraid of getting another child.I dont know so much about being “afraid” I can tell you that when I was an NFP instructor the people who took NFP because of serious medical life threatening issues were never the ones who had trouble with the “rules” or who complained about a lack of intimacy or ever slept on the couch or in separate rooms.

From a man’s perspective I can tell you that I have never been so lustful for relations that I would put my Bride’s life at risk. Period. Nor would I think much of someone who did. NFP is incredibly easy for those types of people to employ. In my experience it is when there is not an understanding or agreement of reproductive goals that “separate rooms” happen. At least that is how it was in my marriage.

NFP has the problem you pointed out. And no amount of regurgitating CCLs tag lines is going to change that. But you see, when you speak of Mercy and of the Church, NFP is the Merciful Solution given to us by God. For it is through NFP that couples get to enjoy the marital embrace without infidelity to their spouse or the Church. NFP IS God;s Mercy in action. And of course God takes into account all of your trials and tribulations, Just as he takes into account those who have sacrificed their lives and families for Him. To the point of death. But to presume God as more merciful than His Church is just as ludicrous as a husband cheating on his wife and then presuming forgiveness from God and his wife because he was under a lot of pressure. It does not fly.

You will not get too far on a Catholic site arguing that the Church is wrong and you know better than 2000 years of God’s institution that has more knowledge of sin and marriage than you or I ever will.

 

[Xantippe]

I think Hoosier Daddy is quite correct that, in general, highly motivated couples find abstinence easier than do couples that kinda sorta want to avoid.

 

[jlc2k2]

I’m not Catholic, but from what I have read, that wouldn’t work. It is my understanding that not being open to life is a sin. So, i would think that abstaining for a long period of time would be a sin as well. If i am wrong in my thinking, someone please correct me.

The Church’s teaching is more that when you have sex, you should complete the act in such a way that it is open to life. The Church (and the Bible) also teaches that sex between spouses is a good thing. However, the Church does NOT say when or how often a married couple has to have sex nor does it say how many kids you should have.

The basic idea is that if you and your spouse have discerned that it is not a good time to have children, you can either abstain completely or abstain while you are most likely to conceive. In general, this should be an ongoing process of discernment (though there may be times where that doesn’t make sense) and it can cause major issues when the couple doesn’t agree as Hoosier Daddy pointed out or when it’s really hard for spouses to say no to each other.

 

[truetofaith]

Quote : Hoosier Daddy - “You will not get too far on a Catholic site arguing that the Church is wrong and you know better than 2000 years of God’s institution that has more knowledge of sin and marriage than you or I ever will.” - Quote

I’m not saying that the Church is wrong or I know more than they. I’m thinking this may be a Church law, like eating meat on Fri., or Holy Days of Obligation…that can be changed by the Church.

Actually, all this doesn’t affect me personally ,since I’m 72, my wife 71, and like my earlier post stated, we couldn’t have children & adopted. We’ve had our share of abstinence due to illness, hospitalization etc.
I just feel bad for all the posters who are expressing the problems with NFP, charts, abstinence…& they’re still getting a surprise baby! uch:

 

[gardenswithkids]

…

I’m not saying that the Church is wrong or I know more than they. I’m thinking this may be a Church law, like eating meat on Fri., or Holy Days of Obligation…that can be changed by the Church.

The Church can change disciplines, (such as abstaining from meat on Friday or not, etc.), but it cannot change doctrine.

Actually, all this doesn’t affect me personally ,since I’m 72, my wife 71, and like my earlier post stated, we couldn’t have children & adopted. We’ve had our share of abstinence due to illness, hospitalization etc.
I just feel bad for all the posters who are expressing the problems with NFP, charts, abstinence…& they’re still getting a surprise baby! uch:

The Bible–and therefore the Church–teaches that children are blessings. Surprise or not, children are blessings. The are gifts from God. We call the Holy Spirit, “The Lord, the Giver of Life” in the Creed. What we say in the Creed is an example of doctrine.

 

[Loly_Maria]

I’ve never used NFP, but I can understand that it must be difficult. I think I’d feel like our relationship was quite clinical, and I’d be constantly worried about getting pregnant.

 

[whm]

I’m not taking issue with any of the 10 Commandments…only with making love to a wife without worrying about getting another child …especially if it would be harmful to the woman’s health.

NFP is simply knowledge and deciding not to have sex at a given time based on that knowledge. This is why it is not against church teaching. The idea of having sex (between fertile spouse) without possibility of conception is against church teaching. The best you can do is decrease the chance of conception, but there is no guarantee that sex on any day is 100% zero.

What you ask making love to your wife without worrying about pregnancy doesn’t exist in the church and NFP should not be promoted as such. It’s a big disservice and promotes the false idea that sex without possibility of conception exists within the church. It never has and never will. (Of course assume spouses are fertile, infertile spouses can have sex)

 

[Xantippe]

NFP is simply knowledge and deciding not to have sex at a given time based on that knowledge. This is why it is not against church teaching. The idea of having sex (between firtile spouse) without possibility of conception is against church teaching. The best you can do is decrease the chance of conception, but there is no guarantee that sex on any day is 100% zero.

What you ask making love to your wife without worrying about pregnancy doesn’t exist in the church and NFP should not be promoted as such. It’s a big disservice and promotes the false idea that sex without possibility of conception exists within the church. It never has and never will. (Of course assume spouses are firtile, infertile spouses can have sex)

And frankly, it doesn’t exist outside the Church among fertile adults. Any grown person should realize that if they are fertile and have intercourse, they can have babies.