Is NFP more of a cross than a blessing to you?

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Quote : Hoosier Daddy - “You will not get too far on a Catholic site arguing that the Church is wrong and you know better than 2000 years of God’s institution that has more knowledge of sin and marriage than you or I ever will.” - Quote

I’m not saying that the Church is wrong or I know more than they. I’m thinking this may be a Church law, like eating meat on Fri., or Holy Days of Obligation…that can be changed by the Church.

Actually, all this doesn’t affect me personally ,since I’m 72, my wife 71, and like my earlier post stated, we couldn’t have children & adopted. We’ve had our share of abstinence due to illness, hospitalization etc.
I just feel bad for all the posters who are expressing the problems with NFP, charts, abstinence…& they’re still getting a surprise baby! uch:

I am shocked that a 72 year old Catholic would understand the Church’s theology on ABC as something that could be like not eating meat on Fridays, (Something we still do as a family) A discipline of practice is changeable. But the church has termed ABC as an “intrinsic evil” Terminology like that defines the act of ABC as something the Church is incapable of changing.

As far as it being “harsh” or hard, perhaps, but so is living a holy life in an unholy world.
There are things the Church cannot change. And this is one of them.

If one is using ABC one needs to realize that no matter the circumstances, they are not in communion with the Church, and the “Amen” when receiving the body and blood unworthily is a damning lie.

 

[LongingSoul]

I’m not Catholic, but from what I have read, that wouldn’t work. It is my understanding that not being open to life is a sin. So, i would think that abstaining for a long period of time would be a sin as well. If i am wrong in my thinking, someone please correct me.

No, those periods of abstinence for the purpose of avoiding pregnancy are not in any way sinful. It’s the path that pretty much all faithful Catholics take when menopause begins. I spoke to my mother who is nearly 80, about how things were done in the old days and she said that long periods of abstinence were quite common in marriages. Sex has of course always a wonderful aspect of marriage but todays attitude of entitlement towards it causes a lot more hardship for people than for people in the old days who just accepted that some things had to be.

I’ve noticed that being a point of difference many times in the young also. If you have always accepted the Church teaching against contraception and then gone into marriage learning NFP techniques from the start of your sex life… it is much less of a burden than those who have begun their sexual life in the ‘freedom’ of contracepting and then coming into or back to the faith and needing to conform to the discipline of the sex life. Rejecting the contracepting lifestyle really requires not just a change in habits but a whole reorientation of attitude.

 

[sailor28]

Quote : Hoosier Daddy - “You will not get too far on a Catholic site arguing that the Church is wrong and you know better than 2000 years of God’s institution that has more knowledge of sin and marriage than you or I ever will.” - Quote

I’m not saying that the Church is wrong or I know more than they. I’m thinking this may be a Church law, like eating meat on Fri., or Holy Days of Obligation…that can be changed by the Church.

Actually, all this doesn’t affect me personally ,since I’m 72, my wife 71, and like my earlier post stated, we couldn’t have children & adopted. We’ve had our share of abstinence due to illness, hospitalization etc.
I just feel bad for all the posters who are expressing the problems with NFP, charts, abstinence…& they’re still getting a surprise baby! uch:

Truetofaith,

It is a minority of the church the looks at this issue as completely black and white. The truth is the majority of priests recognize birth control should be used in some situations. Not because they don’t want people suffering. They don’t believe God places heavy burdens on couples which they can not bear. For some couples NFP is that unbearable burden. I know you are getting reprimanded for questioning the way that you are. This teaching has been a pastoral failure on the part of the church. Because when push comes to shove the theology is incoherent.

I’m sorry but nobody can judge anyone else’s relationship with God and whether or not they are receiving the Eucharist unworthily. We all have darkened intellects, including the Magisterium of the church. Despite the majority of Bishops and priests not agreeing that birth control was intrinsically evil back in the 60’s the church went ahead with this anyway. In part, I believe because it was unable to admit it was not correct. In full disclosure, I do not believe in infallibility. For some, that is the reason they follow this teaching. They believe God will send them to hell otherwise.

I fully support anyone continuing to do what they believe God is asking them to do. You must obey what your conscience tells you to do.

 

[sailor28]

Again, Sailor, I tell you your comments mock many here. Following Church teachings is harder yet when one member of a couple decides people like you are right while the spouse’s conscience says it’s not okay. I speak out to you because you encourage people to doubt that the Church teaches truth, but some of those people may have a spouse who wants to follow Church teachings. Those doubts you encourage add to the weight of the cross carried by person’s faithful Catholic spouse. Fighting about whether to use NFP vs. artificial contraceptives harms marriages far more than NFP.

And yes, I know that someone can love God deeply while disagreeing with the Church , as I know many Protestants who love God deeply. I’ll tell you what I tell my Protestant relatives: my trust is in Jesus and the Holy Spirit to protect the Church from error.

Gardenswithkids,

In no way should you not follow your conscience. In no way should you put down any cross Almighty God asks you to carry.

If spouses can not agree on something so central to marriage they should see a marriage counselor. A non catholic spouse has a right to follow their conscience as well. What about the cross they carry in these situations?

I encourage people to thoroughly study church teaching.

Please, I am not trying to mock anyone. If my comments offend you block me. I will do the same.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Truetofaith,

It is a minority of the church the looks at this issue as completely black and white. The truth is the majority of priests recognize birth control should be used in some situations. Not because they don’t want people suffering. They don’t believe God places heavy burdens on couples which they can not bear. For some couples NFP is that unbearable burden. I know you are getting reprimanded for questioning the way that you are. This teaching has been a pastoral failure on the part of the church. Because when push comes to shove the theology is incoherent.

I’m sorry but nobody can judge anyone else’s relationship with God and whether or not they are receiving the Eucharist unworthily. We all have darkened intellects, including the Magisterium of the church. Despite the majority of Bishops and priests not agreeing that birth control was intrinsically evil back in the 60’s the church went ahead with this anyway. In part, I believe because it was unable to admit it was not correct. In full disclosure, I do not believe in infallibility. For some, that is the reason they follow this teaching. They believe God will send them to hell otherwise.

I fully support anyone continuing to do what they believe God is asking them to do. You must obey what your conscience tells you to do.

Read the encyclical Humane Vitae, in doing so,you will hopefully gain a better understanding of why the Church is against any form of ABC.

 

[EasterJoy]

Truetofaith,

It is a minority of the church the looks at this issue as completely black and white. The truth is the majority of priests recognize birth control should be used in some situations. Not because they don’t want people suffering. They don’t believe God places heavy burdens on couples which they can not bear. For some couples NFP is that unbearable burden. I know you are getting reprimanded for questioning the way that you are. This teaching has been a pastoral failure on the part of the church. Because when push comes to shove the theology is incoherent.

I’m sorry but nobody can judge anyone else’s relationship with God and whether or not they are receiving the Eucharist unworthily. We all have darkened intellects, including the Magisterium of the church. Despite the majority of Bishops and priests not agreeing that birth control was intrinsically evil back in the 60’s the church went ahead with this anyway. In part, I believe because it was unable to admit it was not correct. In full disclosure, I do not believe in infallibility. For some, that is the reason they follow this teaching. They believe God will send them to hell otherwise.

I fully support anyone continuing to do what they believe God is asking them to do. You must obey what your conscience tells you to do.

When did a priest get the authority to preemptively relieve us of those portions of the moral life that we find too difficult? I do not remember that as being within the authority of a priest. Neither do I remember anything in Biblical prophesies that tell of a time when our true moral compass will rightly be turned on the opinion of the majority. No, if anything, the prophesies in the New Testament tell us that it is the majority that will fall away from the truth, while only the few will hold on to the truth and continue to live by it.

You speak as if artificial methods of preventing pregnancy were invented in 1960. This is not so. There has not been a time when the Church has failed to teach that artificial methods of birth control are forbidden. It was the other denominations that relaxed the tradition Christian prohibition, starting in the 1930s. What happened in 1960 is that some people proposed that hormonal birth control pills were not artificial, but natural, because the method involved ingesting naturally-occurring hormones. The Church eventually rejected that proposal.

Part of our moral duty is to form our consciences according to the moral truth that the Church teaches. A Catholic must obey the correctly-formed conscience, not some inner emotional voice telling him or her what he or she wants to hear. So while mercy understands that none of us does as well as we intend, we do have the duty to intend to do what is right and to try to do what is right, rather than despairing of the hope of ever attaining moral perfection and giving ourselves permission to commit whatever sins are the hardest for us to avoid.

No, we should not judge those who fail in some way to avoid sin. Yes, however, we should hold fast to what are the traditional teachings concerning what is and is not a sin. We have a duty to do that.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

When did a priest get the authority to preemptively relieve us of those portions of the moral life that we find too difficult? I do not remember that as being within the authority of a priest. Neither do I remember anything in Biblical prophesies that tell of a time when our true moral compass will rightly be turned on the opinion of the majority. No, if anything, the prophesies in the New Testament tell us that it is the majority that will fall away from the truth, while only the few will hold on to the truth and continue to live by it.

You speak as if artificial methods of preventing pregnancy were invented in 1960. This is not so. There has not been a time when the Church has failed to teach that artificial methods of birth control are forbidden. It was the other denominations that relaxed the tradition Christian prohibition, starting in the 1930s. What happened in 1960 is that some people proposed that hormonal birth control pills were not artificial, but natural, because the method involved ingesting naturally-occurring hormones. The Church eventually rejected that proposal.

Part of our moral duty is to form our consciences according to the moral truth that the Church teaches. A Catholic must obey the correctly-formed conscience, not some inner emotional voice telling him or her what he or she wants to hear. So while mercy understands that none of us does as well as we intend, we do have the duty to intend to do what is right and to try to do what is right, rather than despairing of the hope of ever attaining moral perfection and giving ourselves permission to commit whatever sins are the hardest for us to avoid.

No, we should not judge those who fail in some way to avoid sin. Yes, however, we should hold fast to what are the traditional teachings concerning what is and is not a sin. We have a duty to do that.

This is true Catholic teaching that one can stand in front of God with!

 

[panorama]

I am practicing NFP for years but often times, I failed. I have sexual intercourse until my wife reached orgasm but then I did not ejaculate by holding it as hard as I can. Am I automatically committing a mortal sin here every time this happens? I failed because I couldn’t resist the temptation not to engage in sexual relationship with my wife during the fertile periods (normally 2 weeks). Can I justify this by saying that this is better than having too much lustful thoughts about my wife in my head?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I am practicing NFP for years but often times, I failed. I have sexual intercourse until my wife reached orgasm but then I did not ejaculate by holding it as hard as I can. Am I automatically committing a mortal sin here every time this happens? I failed because I couldn’t resist the temptation not to engage in sexual relationship with my wife during the fertile periods (normally 2 weeks). Can I justify this by saying that this is better than having too much lustful thoughts about my wife in my head?

You should take this to your confessor.

 

[EasterJoy]

I am practicing NFP for years but often times, I failed. I have sexual intercourse until my wife reached orgasm but then I did not ejaculate by holding it as hard as I can. Am I automatically committing a mortal sin here every time this happens? I failed because I couldn’t resist the temptation not to engage in sexual relationship with my wife during the fertile periods (normally 2 weeks). Can I justify this by saying that this is better than having too much lustful thoughts about my wife in my head?

What moral precept have you kept perfectly? Were you a perfect father? Are there no offenses you commit even though you understand they are wrong?

Do your best. When you go to confession, be careful to confess all those things which the Church teaches are seriously in violation of the moral law, whether the matter seems light to you or not. Then go back out into the world and by the help of the Holy Spirit try to do your best again. What matters is to persevere, even though we fall.

When you confess doing that thing which your emotions do not recoil from doing, that is in itself a particular act of obedience, after all. It is easy to confess the offense that stings our self-concept, but harder to abide by moral laws whose wisdom escapes us. The Lord reads our hearts, and knows the difficulties we have and the sacrifices we make. The Lord knows when we keep to what is right by trust alone, and not by our own inclination. When we keep to what we have been taught, even when we are not inclined to do it and do not find the way sweet, we will not go without our reward. I honestly believe that those who did their best with the least amount of consolations will be given recognition from the Throne for that service, both because it is particularly difficult and also because it is so little appreciated by anyone else how hard it was to persevere.

 

[LongingSoul]

I am practicing NFP for years but often times, I failed. I have sexual intercourse until my wife reached orgasm but then I did not ejaculate by holding it as hard as I can. Am I automatically committing a mortal sin here every time this happens? I failed because I couldn’t resist the temptation not to engage in sexual relationship with my wife during the fertile periods (normally 2 weeks). Can I justify this by saying that this is better than having too much lustful thoughts about my wife in my head?

Do you mean you practiced the ‘withdrawal method’ and ejaculated after intercourse? Unfortunately that constitutes contraception. It is not impossible to be abstinent and to reorient your love for your wife to more selfless acts of love. I would encourage you to explore the spiritual dimension of your life with a spiritual director.

 

[808Catholic]

Fear of hell if they use birth control pills & if using the NFP…fear they will get another child that may can’t afford or may harm the mother’s health.

Thank you for your clarification. Fear of hell is powerful and, by church doctrine, should not be our motivation for honoring God. Hopefully, we do what we do because we love God with all our hearts, mind, and soul and we are faithful to Him and try to follow His Plan. Does His Plan involve personal suffering for us? No but He does give us free will to respond to challenges in our lives. Some of the challenges may be fairly easy to accept and follow such as do not murder. Other challenges may be harder to accept and cause us pause in obedience such as conceiving a child when we believe our finances is already spread too thin. The church teaching is that in marriage we must remain open to the possibility of conceiving of children. That’s why use of Artificial Birth Control is considered a sin. By using ABC, we deny the possibility of conception. God’s laws are not easy to follow but they are clear and we have the choice to follow them or not.

 

[truetofaith]

Thank you for your clarification. Fear of hell is powerful and, by church doctrine, should not be our motivation for honoring God. Hopefully, we do what we do because we love God with all our hearts, mind, and soul and we are faithful to Him and try to follow His Plan. Does His Plan involve personal suffering for us? No but He does give us free will to respond to challenges in our lives. Some of the challenges may be fairly easy to accept and follow such as do not murder. Other challenges may be harder to accept and cause us pause in obedience such as conceiving a child when we believe our finances is already spread too thin. The church teaching is that in marriage we must remain open to the possibility of conceiving of children. That’s why use of Artificial Birth Control is considered a sin. By using ABC, we deny the possibility of conception. God’s laws are not easy to follow but they are clear and we have the choice to follow them or not.

I understand all of this…but tell it to the people on here that are posting that they have 3 or 4 kids & can’t afford anymore or their doctor said it’s harmful to their health to have another pregnancy.

 

[truetofaith]

I am practicing NFP for years but often times, I failed. I have sexual intercourse until my wife reached orgasm but then I did not ejaculate by holding it as hard as I can. Am I automatically committing a mortal sin here every time this happens? I failed because I couldn’t resist the temptation not to engage in sexual relationship with my wife during the fertile periods (normally 2 weeks). Can I justify this by saying that this is better than having too much lustful thoughts about my wife in my head?

Go jogging during the fertile times…I used to practice my guitar, when she wasn’t in the mood!

 

[808Catholic]

I’ve never used NFP, but I can understand that it must be difficult. I think I’d feel like our relationship was quite clinical, and I’d be constantly worried about getting pregnant.

If I may ask, what, if any, methods have you used to space out pregnancies?

 

[808Catholic]

I understand all of this…but tell it to the people on here that are posting that they have 3 or 4 kids & can’t afford anymore or their doctor said it’s harmful to their health to have another pregnancy.

God provides us knowledge that leads to options; what we choose, regardless if it’s a sin or in compliance with God’s laws, is up to us.

 

[808Catholic]

I am practicing NFP for years but often times, I failed. I have sexual intercourse until my wife reached orgasm but then I did not ejaculate by holding it as hard as I can. Am I automatically committing a mortal sin here every time this happens? I failed because I couldn’t resist the temptation not to engage in sexual relationship with my wife during the fertile periods (normally 2 weeks). Can I justify this by saying that this is better than having too much lustful thoughts about my wife in my head?

You cannot justify a sin by committing another sin.

 

[sailor28]

When did a priest get the authority to preemptively relieve us of those portions of the moral life that we find too difficult? I do not remember that as being within the authority of a priest. Neither do I remember anything in Biblical prophesies that tell of a time when our true moral compass will rightly be turned on the opinion of the majority. No, if anything, the prophesies in the New Testament tell us that it is the majority that will fall away from the truth, while only the few will hold on to the truth and continue to live by it.

You speak as if artificial methods of preventing pregnancy were invented in 1960. This is not so. There has not been a time when the Church has failed to teach that artificial methods of birth control are forbidden. It was the other denominations that relaxed the tradition Christian prohibition, starting in the 1930s. What happened in 1960 is that some people proposed that hormonal birth control pills were not artificial, but natural, because the method involved ingesting naturally-occurring hormones. The Church eventually rejected that proposal.

Part of our moral duty is to form our consciences according to the moral truth that the Church teaches. A Catholic must obey the correctly-formed conscience, not some inner emotional voice telling him or her what he or she wants to hear. So while mercy understands that none of us does as well as we intend, we do have the duty to intend to do what is right and to try to do what is right, rather than despairing of the hope of ever attaining moral perfection and giving ourselves permission to commit whatever sins are the hardest for us to avoid.

No, we should not judge those who fail in some way to avoid sin. Yes, however, we should hold fast to what are the traditional teachings concerning what is and is not a sin. We have a duty to do that.

Easterjoy,

Just so you understand, I don’t base my moral decisions on “some inner emotional voice” and I find that type of dialogue condescending. If you had read and listened to what I wrote before I said my decision on this matter is NOT based on the fact that it is difficult. I repeat my decision on this matter is NOT based on that fact that it is difficult or even that it was damaging to my marriage. I have more than thoroughly read and listened to others like yourself for longer than was even healthy and I do not find the theology or philosophy of this teaching coherent or something I can follow while ignoring my well formed conscience. I also do not believe in infallibility or absolute obedience to an institution. There is no human being or institution that is infallible. So there is really nothing more for us to discuss.

The more I read here the more grateful I am to not live in the type of legalism you embrace.

It just seems to be the same old, same old. Individuals with beliefs like yourself do not seem to come up with anything different than, “your making emotional decisions or you want to avoid difficultly in life or you refuse to carry crosses” Maybe you could try a different approach next time you run into a poster like me?

I post my experience here more so others who are reading who are trapped in this legalism know a different side of the theological interpretation. If you want to believe you are on the only one who knows the whole Truth then you can believe that. Fortunately, Almighty God is the ones who judges hearts and actions.

God bless your night.

 

[Lookingforjoy]

To answer the original question, NFP has been a huge cross for me and my husband. My fertility signs are erratic, sympto-thermal is hard when our youngest is still waking erratically throughout the night, and every month I’m as likely to ovulate early or late as I am on time. The absintence isn’t even hard…it’s actually a relief because I’m constantly

And yet, when I explain this to other people, I usually am told to either relax and take birth control, or I get a spiel like this:

“I don’t know why any couple would choose ABC! NFP is 99% effective, and doesn’t have any of the side affects of artificial birth control! Plus it brings couples together. If you husband respects you he’ll be all over NFP! I’m soooo glad my spouse and my marriage honor God by choosing NFP!”

And then, if this discussion is happening on this forum, this emoticon is often used: I guess to denote in a visual way how incomprehensible it is that any Catholic worth her salt would choose anything but NFP or just having a dozen kids.

Guys, that attitude doesn’t help anyone to do NFP. A little more compassion would help a lot of hopeless couples who feel like they have nowhere to turn and nobody who understands.

 

[Parv59]

I’m currently practicing NFP during my postpartum/breastfeeding period. It is THE hardest thing I have ever done. I’m so unsure of everything, my poor husband doesn’t really understand, I mean all he know is we can hardly have sex. It’s hard!. It is driving me absolutely bananas and I think to myself why are we putting ourselves through this? I’m doing my best to avoid sin, but honestly at some point If it’s my marriage on the line I’m not going to be able to keep it up.