Is no life-after-death, something to fear?

[tafan2]

Let me ask you this. Aquinas says the following about human virtues:

for all evil implies defect; wherefore Dionysius says (Div. Hom. ii) that every evil is a weakness. And for this reason the virtue of a thing must be regarded in reference to good. Therefore human virtue which is an operative habit, is a good habit, productive of good works.

If you stopped believing in God, would you find that to be false?

 

[EndTimes]

Is no life-after-death, something to fear?

It’s an oddish sort of question
which suggests there’s a simplistic Yes! or No! Answer,
which in turn must most likely be laboriously difficult
to give any sort of a definitive answer to that question.

For - in any and all cases - some do and some don’t -

However, Any possessing the Hope which follows from Faith

• possess far less to zero fear over the Death of the Body.

than Individuals - and there are many -

• who do have a strong case of DeathPhobia …
  and who could or should be questioned on → Why the Fear?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

And I believe to hold this position and espouse it with regards to atheists is not helpful at all as an argument for faith

Once again, not intending it as an argument for faith. I’m not even trying to claim that anyone should hold this position. I think it’s a nonsense position that we all know is wrong. However, without the framework of something beyond this life, no one can give a reason it’s wrong, apart from the general platitudes of that we should just do good.

If you stopped believing in God, would you find that to be false?

If I stop believing in God, then what reference point do I have for “good” beyond what I subjectively believe is good?

There are millions of people who think that the ability to destroy your child in the womb is actively a good thing. They believe that promoting that is a good habit, and productive of good works.

The same is true for pornography, homosexuality, or even murder, in the case of terrorists. Without the proper framework then almost anything can be justified as a “good.”

So no, I probably wouldn’t stop believing that statement, but it is also highly probably that the “good works” I am producing are in fact genuine evils.

 

[Gorgias]

Nor do I. If they are correct and this human life is the best we can expect, then I will gladly be done with it.

“This is the best it gets” and “this is the only game in town” are different dynamics, though…

 

[billsherman]

If rationality is subjective, then there’s no reasonable means by which to determine that a course of action is rational because there is no way to ensure that you yourself are being rational.

Exactly. Rationality is subjective, therefore, rationality only exists in the eye of the beholder. What is rational to one, can be irrational to another.

A Christian might find the concept of reincarnation totally irrational, but a Hindu would surely beg to differ.

I’m not a philosopher, so I don’t know if this is called relativism or what. It certainly has parallels in post-modernism’s concept of human beliefs being socially constructed, though.

We ascribe meaning because we must

We surely do, but isn’t that meaning also subjective? For example, I ascribe great meaning to a photograph of my deceased mother. It sits on my nightstand, and it helps me remember happy times I spent with her. The very same photograph is meaningless to virtually everyone else. If my house caught on fire, I would run in to rescue it, but no one else would.

Given that we know life has meaning, then the only rational conclusion is that we also know that there is something afterwards, even if we’re unwilling to consciously acknowledge that fact.

I dispute both of your arguments here. Life has meaning for certain, but that meaning varies tremendously among people. Different religious traditions, different societies, different times, all value life vastly differently (think about how native American life was valued by 19th century Americans, for example). Sometimes, life is given no value at all. The variation is such, that I don’t think we can say that we absolutely know life has any intrinsic meaning beyond what we give it.

And second, no, even if you value life tremendously, like my rabbi friend, you are not irrational for rejecting an afterlife. He states very bluntly, that if God created an afterlife, he would have given it a prominent role in Torah. Instead, the Torah teaches about how to treat other people, and commands the Jews to live it out. Again, he can in no way be described as a nihilist, and neither can thousands (millions?) of others who hold no belief in an afterlife. An afterlife is not a necessary part of religion.

 

[lelinator]

I disagree. Given a set of knowledge, rational and irrational options exist. That knowledge may vary from person to person, and therefore each person may arrive at a different, rational, conclusion given their circumstances, but that doesn’t make the determination of rational / irrational subjective.

I must disagree, and I believe rationally so. It’s not just the information that varies from person to person, it’s the credibility that each of them gives that information. Even given the exact same information, if that information is ambiguous, then two completely rational people can come to totally different yet rational conclusions.

Now if one thinks about this long enough, then it would seem, that if your information is ambiguous, then the only rational conclusion must be, that you can’t reach a rational conclusion.

If however we accept that perfect knowledge is impossible, at least for us mere mortals, then from our perspective at least, rationality must remain subjective.

 

[BlueMaxx]

“I’m not afraid of death; I just don’t want to be there when it happens.”​

― Woody Allen

 

[lelinator]

“I’m not afraid of death; I just don’t want to be there when it happens.”​

― Woody Allen

I’m not afraid of death…and I DO want to be there when it happens. I mean how often do you get to do that? Sure, it might be excruciatingly painful, but hey, that’s what makes it epic.

I mean I missed the whole being born thing. Yeah I was there, but I don’t remember a darn thing about it…but death, I don’t want to miss that too.

So come on death…make it epic.

 

[EndTimes]

If you stopped believing in God, would you find that to be false?

Once one Knows God - there’s no such thing as stopping said Knowledge…

Even Satan Knows God Exists…

 

[Freddy]

Given that, I paired it down to two. Either act as though it does, or act as though it doesn’t.

It would seem that the rational choice would be to treat this life as the only one you are going to get and live it as well as possible. If there does turn out to be a happy everafter then that will be a bonus.

 

[Beryllos]

In this Sunday’s Gospel, some Sadducees ask Jesus about the resurrection. They didn’t believe in the resurrection. I guess that’s why they were sad, you see.

 

[IWantGod]

Well, I’ve got to decide what’s for dinner tonight. The kids are coming over. I’ll worry about the utter meaningless of a cold and lifeless universe later.

Clearly you believe that there is a right thing to do, and that to do this has real meaning that transcends normal physical definitions. Nobody here is really saying that the reality of our existence here is meaningless and pointless. In reality nobody behaves as if that idea was true, and for good reason; because it’s not true.

Mine and @ProdglArchitect Goal is to show you that your atheism, while it may have seemed to have been founded on good reason, ultimately leads to irrationality.

 

[EndTimes]

It would seem that the rational choice would be to treat this life as the only one you are going to get and live it as well as possible. If there does turn out to be a happy everafter then that will be a bonus.

Or, Freddy, treat this life as well as is possible with Love and Truth √

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

It would seem that the rational choice would be to treat this life as the only one you are going to get and live it as well as possible. If there does turn out to be a happy everafter then that will be a bonus.

Or, Freddy, treat this life as well as is possible with Love and Truth √

No problem. Except I don’t use capital letters when referring to those concepts.

 

[EndTimes]

No problem. Except I don’t use capital letters when referring to those concepts.

SoKay…

 

[JanR]

IF – and I’m only saying IF – we totally cease to exist after physical death, we would likewise totally cease to experience anything, including fear. We would become nothing. We wouldn’t just exist in total oblivion – we wouldn’t exist, at all. To me, that is not something to be afraid of. I think some of us actually wish that could be so.

And IF – again I only say IF – God wills that for any particular individual, then we must trust his will to be righteous, because God is perfect.

I wish to believe there is so much more beyond our physical, earthly life. If this is all there is, what’s the point?

Nobody knows what really happens after physical death. We do know that God is life, and that he brought, and continues to bring life into existence. He refuses to live in the total vacuum of nothingness, though he is capable of it if he wants to. God is the Creator. A creator creates, and never stops creating (hence the absolute certainty of advanced lifeforms elsewhere in the physical universe.) He also created the spiritual beings we know as angels, and probably other totally spiritual beings, as well. God is the Ultimate Creator – and I think it’s a pretty safe bet that life continues beyond whatever tangible forms it has been temporarily placed into.

Finally, if there is no afterlife, WHAT was the point of Jesus’s sacrifice on the cross?

 

[wiggbuggie1]

i can relate there are some fears of not existing and wanting to live forever. Unfulfilled dreams or desires in our lifetime or wanting to experience things. I would also like to see how far technology and we as a human race can go and observe the trends that come and go in life.

 

[Freddy]

i can relate there are some fears of not existing and wanting to live forever. Unfulfilled dreams or desires in our lifetime or wanting to experience things. I would also like to see how far technology and we as a human race can go and observe the trends that come and go in life.

Exactly right. It’s not leaving that is a problem. It’s that we won’t experience what is yet to come.

 

[lelinator]

Exactly right. It’s not leaving that is a problem. It’s that we won’t experience what is yet to come.

As sad as dying may be…far, far sadder still, would be not to die at all. For it’s the transience of life that gives it its value. We treasure things, not because they can last forever, but because they can’t.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

For it’s the transience of life that gives it its value. We treasure things, not because they can last forever, but because they can’t.

There’s no way that applies to everyone. Transience is why I don’t like wasting money on pricey food and other consummables because they aren’t worth it. Also why I don’t really like meeting people on vacations.