Is our free will absolute?

[Latin]

Continuation
.

CCC 154; Believing is possible only by grace and the interior helps of the Holy Spirit. …
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CCC 155; In faith, the human intellect and will cooperate with divine grace: "Believing is an act of the intellect assenting to the divine truth by command of the will MOVED by God through grace."

.
CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”
.
In other words, when God commands, He capacities the hearer to respond.
.
Our cooperation with the grace of God is produced (not just enabled) by God’s operation.

Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.
.
.

YOU SAID MERCYWARRIOR WITH YOUR OWN WORDS:

If predestination is true, then the very purpose of the DIVINE MERCY would be defeated. Why did Jesus decide to appear to St. Faustina?
.

So, if predestination is true, then the very purpose of the DIVINE MERCY is defeated, and it is NOT Christ who is appeared to St. Faustina but a deceiving spirit.
.
.

In the light of the teachings of the Scripture and the teachings of Catholic Soteriology on PREDESTINATION; What is your view MercyWarrior, which one past the test, PREDESTINATION or DIVINE MERCY?
.
.

I agree with you MercyWarrior, PREDESTINATION AND DIVINE MERCY BOTH CAN NOT BE TRUE, one of the two is a heresy, which one defeated the other?
.

PREDESTINATION defeated DIVINE MERCY or DIVINE MERCY defeated PREDESTINATION?
.
What is your answer MercyWarrior?
.

God bless you MercyWarrior and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

 

[AveOTheotokos]

Latin, you seem to be ignorant of or fail to grasp the Catholic concept of predestination. Here are some links providing more info and perspective to help you. May the Holy Spirit guide you and may the Lord give you peace.

Predestined for Freedom | Catholic Answers Magazine

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

St. Mary's Catholic Center

 

[Latin]

Latin, you seem to be ignorant of or fail to grasp the Catholic concept of predestination. Here are some links providing more info and perspective to help you. May the Holy Spirit guide you and may the Lord give you peace.

Predestined for Freedom | Catholic Answers

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

St. Mary's Catholic Center

God bless you AveOTheotokos and God bless every readers of the CAF.
.
Thank you for your highly OFFENSIVE post.
.
So, you concluded from my short sample of predestination that I’m ignorant of Catholic concept of predestination, without knowing me and without knowing my knowledge on Catholic soteriology in particular predestination.

I’m a Catholic and my major study is Catholic Soteriology and I love it, I also know those articles you suggested me to study very well even backward and forward, I also know very well the different Catholic concepts of predestination.
.

God bless you AveOTheotokos and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

 

[guanophore]

Original sin corrupts the integrality and operative union of the intellect, the will and the sensible appetites.

Yes, but Baptism severs our slavery to that corruption. By grace we can exercise intellect, will, and sensible appetites as God intended.

St. John Paul II taught that true freedom is the ability to do what ought to be done.

Yes, this is the freedom given to us by grace through the HS.

shalom, Latin. Thanks for replying to my post. I feel bold to refute what is written in your “infallible” source

@Latin is trying to use Catholic sources to support a Calvanistic concept of irresistable grace. It is not consistent with Catholic teaching.

there’s no doubt in my mind that if God wants certain people to be saved, He would give them all the graces needed so they could successfully work for their salvation.

@Latin seems to believe that all those who are baptized fall within this category.

No, our free will isn’t absolute.

I can’t will myself to fly. Or to breathe under water. Our will is constrained in lots of ways.

I don’t think anyone was suggesting that we are able to act outside of our human nature, but within the parameters for which we are created, is there anything that constrains our will?

. I was talking about free will to choose our fate–whether to go to heaven or hell.

Will we be taken to heaven, as @Latin asserts, even though we deny Christ? or will we go to hell, even if it is our hearts’ desire to be with Christ for eternity?

Latin, you seem to be ignorant of or fail to grasp the Catholic concept of predestination.

He has been told this many times, on many threads, but seems to have a strong personal need to experience irresistable grace. I think he has been infected by the TULIP.

So, you concluded from my short sample of predestination that I’m ignorant of Catholic concept of predestination, without knowing me and without knowing my knowledge on Catholic soteriology in particular predestination.

Yes, because your construct denies what the Church teaches.

 

[MercyWarrior88]

Shalom, Latin.Thank you for answering my post. It seems that as a Christian, you have very fixed beliefs on predestination, and I very well respect that. As a Catholic, I firmly believe in the concept of free will, as taught by the Catholic Church and elucidated on the Catechism of the Catholic Church on Man’s Freedom. This catechism is archived in the website Vatican.va.

I was truly aghast when you dangled the possibility that the very Jesus who appeared to St. Faustina is a “deceiving spirit.” HOW can a deceiving spirit exhort men to perform “deeds of mercy” (visiting the sick, giving drink to the thirsty, etc.) in an effort to attain salvation? This is the very opposite of what the devil wants (he wants people to go to hell, so he induces them to do evil things).

BIBLE VERSES ON FREE WILL

When, in the beginning, the Lord created human beings, He left them free to do as they wished. If you want to, you can keep the Lord’s commands. You can decide whether you will be loyal to Him or not. You have a choice between life and death. You will get whichever you choose. -Sirach 15:14-17

“Mortal man, I am making you a watchman for the nation of Israel. You will pass on to them the warnings I give you. If I announce that an evil man is going to die but you do not warn him to CHANGE his ways SO THAT HE CAN SAVE his life, he will die, still a sinner, but I will hold you responsible for his death. If you do warn an evil man and he DOESNT stop sinning, he WILL DIE, still a sinner, but your life will be spared.”

"Now I the Sovereign Lord, am telling you Israelites that I will JUDGE each of you by what he has DONE. Turn away from all the evil you are doing, and DONT LET your sin destroy you. Give up all the evil you have been doing, and get yourselves new minds and hearts. Why do you Israelites want to die? I don’t want anyone to die. Turn away from your sins and live. " -Ezekiel 18:30-32

“For God will reward every person according to what he has done. Some keep on doing good, and seek glory, honor, and immortal life… to them God will reward eternal life. Other people are selfish and reject what is right, in order to follow what is wrong. On them God will pour out his anger and fury.” - Roman’s 2:6-8

The life of Solomon is worth mentioning. Since he was a son of David, it would have been easy to conclude that he was “predestined” to live in heaven and God would give him all the graces to live a virtually fault-free life. However, that did not happen. Although God appeared to Solomon twice and COMMANDED him not to worship foreign gods, Solomon did not obey the Lord and turned away from Him. Solomon died in a state of sin.

What God did in the time of Noah is also worth mentioning. If predestination is true, God would have predestined,in Noah’s time, a DECENT number of people who will go to heaven, and if this is the case, He would not have felt the NEED to WIPE out virtually all people on earth (except Noah and his family), including almost all the animals and birds because He felt SORRY He created them (the wicked).

to be continued.out of space.

 

[Latin]

Shalom, Latin.Thank you for answering my post.

“For God will reward every person according to what he has done. Some keep on doing good, and seek glory, honor, and immortal life… to them God will reward eternal life. Other people are selfish and reject what is right, in order to follow what is wrong. On them God will pour out his anger and fury.” - Roman’s 2:6-8.

God bless you MercyWarrior and God bless every readers of the CAF.
.

SACRA PAGINA ROMANS By Brendan Byrne, S.J. Daniel J. Harrington, S.J., Editor

Brendan Byrne, S.J., is professor of New Testament at Jesuit Theological College, within the United Faculty of Theology, Parkville, Melbourne Australia. … Pope John Paul II named him a member of the Pontifical Biblical Commission in 1990.
.

The Church official interpretation of Romans 2:6-13 – 3:28.

Quote: “Paul fully embraces the principle of justification according to one’s works.

Acceptance of the Christian gospel has indeed led him to fully convinced that IN FACT NO HUMAN BEING WILL FIND JUSTIFICATION ON THE BASIS OF WORKS and that, faced with total human unrighteousness, God has graciously effected in Christ an ALTERNATIVE mode of justification for those who believe (Rom.3:21-26).

…For the purpose of the prophetic accusation and echoing what has already been stated in vv 6-7 and 10, he envisages at least the possibility of justification on the basis of performance – though VERY SOON (Rom.3:19-20, 23) he will DENY that this possibility, at least as conventionally understood, could be realized in fact. End quote.
.
.
Performance is the criterion of justification (Rom.2:6-13) VS. Faith is the criterion of justification Rom. (3:19-20, 23-24, 28). …
.
As we see above, context is very important.
Paul is contrasting the old conventional way of work salvation which cannot save VS. the salvation by faith of the New Covenant, which is THE only way of salvation.
.

If we take Rom.2:6-13 OUT OF CONTEXT, we can be deceived and to believe, “Faith + Works = Salvation” half old + half new, which is THE greatest deception in Christianity.
.

Neither Heaven nor our Eternal life are God’s rewards, they are God’s free gifts, we cannot work for them.
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Our glory and position in heaven is the reward for our Works of Love.
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If we work for the reason to get to heaven, that is NOT Works of Love, it is faithless graceless works, REJECTED by God!!!
.

God bless you MercyWarrior and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

 

[guanophore]

I was truly aghast when you dangled the possibility that the very Jesus who appeared to St. Faustina is a “deceiving spirit.” HOW can a deceiving spirit exhort men to perform “deeds of mercy” (visiting the sick, giving drink to the thirsty, etc.) in an effort to attain salvation? This is the very opposite of what the devil wants (he wants people to go to hell, so he induces them to do evil things).

One must consider the source. We know them by their fruits! Indeed, deeds of mercy are the fruit of the HS.

God would give him all the graces to live a virtually fault-free life.

I think that God did give Him these graces, just as He promised, but I also think you hit the nail on the head. Solomon chose to disobey God, and therefore, fell from grace.

 

[Edward_H]

Baptism does not remove the triple concupiscence; the tendency exists until we die.

 

[AveOTheotokos]

God bless you Latin and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Thank you for your post.

God bless you AveOTheotokos and God bless every readers of the CAF.

.

Thank you for your highly OFFENSIVE post.

What was offensive about my post? If you are Catholic and believe that salvation cannot be lost, then you are ignorant of Catholic teaching.

If you find the word ignorant offensive, then you are ignorant of the definition of ignorant.

So, you concluded from my short sample of predestination that I’m ignorant of Catholic concept of predestination, without knowing me and without knowing my knowledge on Catholic soteriology in particular predestination.

No, you post these kinds of non-sensical, cherry-picked quote laden posts quite frequently. Based on this, i stated that you “seem ignorant of or fail to grasp the Catholic concept of predestination.”

I’m a Catholic and my major study is Catholic Soteriology and I love it, I also know those articles you suggested me to study very well even backward and forward, I also know very well the different Catholic concepts of predestination.

I am glad that you are Catholic. I am also quite saddened that you are so overwhelmingly confused when it comes to the teachings of our faith. I will pray for you, that you gain some clarity and guidance from the Holy Spirit.

God bless you Latin and God bless every readers of the CAF.

AveOTheotokos

 

[Latin]

Shalom, Latin.Thank you for answering my post.

I was truly aghast when you dangled the possibility that the very Jesus who appeared to St. Faustina is a “deceiving spirit.”

HOW can a deceiving spirit exhort men to perform “deeds of mercy” (visiting the sick, giving drink to the thirsty, etc.) in an effort to attain salvation?

This is the very opposite of what the devil wants (he wants people to go to hell, so he induces them to do evil things).

God bless you MercyWarrior and God bless every readers of the CAF.
.
In your post you asked an important question which deserve the answer.
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If someone doesn’t know the true Gospel, that person doesn’t recognize a different gospel which is a DIFFERENT RELIGION.
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I SHOW YOU MERCYWARRIOR THE TRUTH WHICH IS THE HEART OF THE GOSPEL.
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CONDITIONS THAT OUR WORKS (OUR DEEDS) COUNT FOR ANYTHING

Conditions MUST BE PRESENT to make SUPERNATURAL MERIT possible.
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The meritorious work must be morally good, that is, in accordance with the moral law in its object, intent, and circumstances.

It MUST be done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY.

It MUST be SUPERNATURAL, that is, AROUSED and ACCOMPANIED by ACTUAL GRACE, and proceeding from a SUPERNATURAL motive.

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church (Denzinger 1576, 1582).
.
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JUSTIFICATION IN CATHOLIC TEACHING by Jimmy Akin

Quote: “The essence of supernatural love is unselfishness—doing something NOT BECAUSE IT WILL HELP US SOMEHOW, but because we want to do it out of SHEER LOVE for the other person, whether that person is God or one of our fellow human beings out of the love of God.

This is THE ONLY KIND of love that ultimately pleases God and therefore the ONLY KIND that ultimately gets us a reward IN heaven.” End quote.
.
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If we not set free to love freely, we cannot love.

If we not set free to freely decide to work without the fear of hell, we cannot do supernatural work/merit.
.
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We cannot please God with the work we MUST do, because we cannot do it FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY.

Whatever we do, we should do it out of sheer love (include the Sacraments) for the Glory of God or out of sheer love for others, this is the only works which is Works of Love.

Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
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SUPERNATURAL WORKS / WORKS OF LOVE:
.
Doing something, DECIDED FREELY without the fear of hell,

work done NOT BECAUSE IT WILL HELP US SOMEHOW,

but because we want to do it out of SHEER LOVE for the Glory of God, or to help other person.
.
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THE KEY TO UNDERSTAND SUPERNATURAL WORKS / WORKS OF LOVE

“The essence of supernatural love is unselfishness—doing something NOT BECAUSE IT WILL HELP US SOMEHOW, but because we want to do it out of SHEER LOVE for another person or for the GLORY OF GOD.
.

The works we must do, we do it for our own interest, this works contains no love, no love for God, nor for other person.
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The works we do out of SHEER LOVE for the person or for the GLORY OF GOD contains love, this is called, Works of Love.

The only our work is good work/supernatural work which contains love for God or for others.
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This is the only WORKS OF LOVE rewarded by God at our Judgment.
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For easy understanding consider, our works as vessels which contains the love which given through our works to God’s Glory or to others.

God REWARDS THE LOVE that the works/vessels contains.
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The works done for our own interest contains neither love for God nor love for others, this works are NOT WORKS OF LOVE.
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And as far as God’s rewards concern, these works are empty works/vessels, wood, hay and straw.
.
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THE WAY OF THE DESTRUCTION OF OUR SUPERNATURAL WORKS / WORKS OF LOVE
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If we work for in an effort to attain our salvation that is not good works/supernatural works. – Wood, hay and straw, REJECTED by God and goes up in smoke at our Judgment.
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If we work for the reason to keep our salvation that is not good works/supernatural works.
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If we do the deeds of mercy for the reason to attain our salvation, we have faith in a different Gospel a different religion and are the fruits is deception.
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If we work for the reason to get reward in heaven that is “usury,” it is not good works/supernatural works.
.

Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
.

YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE by Peter Kreeft

Peter Kreeft is one of the most popular and widely-read Catholic authors of today.
Peter Kreeft is on The Advisory Board of the Catholic Education resource Center.
“Highly recommended to all those who want to deepen their spiritual lives.
The beauty of this book is that it literally makes the [Bible] come to alive.” – John A. Harden, S.J.
.
Quote: “The mistakes of the Corinthians were mistakes of addition; the mistakes of the Galatians was subtraction.

The Corinthians had polluted the gospel.

The Galatians had abandoned it for another religion, “a different gospel.” …

Many religiously uneducated Catholics still believe this Galatian heresy today (Gal.1:6-9). …
.
No mistake could be more serious.
Yet as we shall see, this is the single most common mistake in the Church today.
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Not a small minority but a large majority of the Catholics today not only do not know the basic doctrines of the Catholic theology anymore, they do not even know how to get to Heaven!
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Until this unbelievable failure is remedied, it is pointless to pray to God for ecumenical peace and reunion between Christian churches.
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It is not clear that one who does not even know how to get to Heaven can accurately be called a Christian.
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I am not suggesting, as many Protestant Fundamentalists do, that most Catholics are not saved.

But I am suggesting that perhaps most will be saved as good pagans, as “anonymous Christians” rather than as Catholic Christians.”
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We are, like it or not, wrestling against demons.
Ignorance of this fact is as disastrous as an army’s ignorance of an opposing army. End quote
.

If someone doesn’t know the true Gospel, that person doesn’t recognize a different gospel which is a DIFFERENT RELIGION.
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Even if we do “deeds of mercy” in an effort to attain salvation, we believe a different gospel, which is a DIFFERENT RELIGION.
.

God bless you MercyWarrior and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

 

[MercyWarrior88]

Latin, thank you for replying. I am tired today and I’m afraid I can’t whip out a lengthy and well-researched post as you did. I might have inadvertently omitted some important words–i should have written “performing deeds of mercy for the love of Jesus” but I wrote “performing deeds of mercy in an effort to attain salvation” only to underscore the point that the Jesus who appeared to St. Faustina wanted people to attain salvation (so he can’t possibly be a deceiving spirit) and this is the very opposite of what the devil wants. However, Jesus did emphasize that these deeds should be "lovingly accomplished, " and I quote Him:

"I need sacrifice lovingly accomplished, because that alone has meaning for Me. " Enormous indeed are the debts of the world which are due to Me. Pure souls can pay them by their sacrifice, exercising mercy in spirit. "

"I demand from you deeds of mercy, which are to arise out of love for Me. You are to show mercy to your neighbors always and everywhere. You must not shrink from this or try to absolve yourself from it. "

The Jesus who appeared to St. Faustina is not a deceiving spirit.

These deeds of mercy are what Jesus called "eternal treasures, " and He encouraged people to gather these.

Jesus said: "If a soul does not exercise mercy somehow or other,it will not obtain My mercy on the day of judgment. Oh, if only souls knew how to gather eternal treasures for themselves, they would not be judged, for they would forestall My judgment with their mercy. "

Please read Matthew 25:31-46. The people who performed deeds of mercy were welcomed in heaven and the people who did not do any act of mercy at all were cast in hell.

Good day to you, Latin. I think this is my last reply to you. If you want to reply to this post of mine, go ahead. Thanks for your time.

 

[guanophore]

If you are Catholic and believe that salvation cannot be lost, then you are ignorant of Catholic teaching.

Don’t be too hard on @Latin. He has been heavily contaminated by Calvanism, and has some sort of deep need to believe in OSAS (once saved always saved).

If you find the word ignorant offensive, then you are ignorant of the definition of ignorant.

Unfortunately, it is not ignorance, but a deep personal conviction in the "P’ in the Calvanistic TULIP.

No, you post these kinds of non-sensical, cherry-picked quote laden posts quite frequently. Based on this, i stated that you “seem ignorant of or fail to grasp the Catholic concept of predestination.”

I know. I think he keep them in a file and pastes them into any and every thread that there seems to be a crack.

I will pray for you, that you gain some clarity and guidance from the Holy Spirit.

I think this is our best recourse.

 

[deMontfort]

I suspect, given that he says he’s Catholic, that he’s a hard-core Thomist: They frequently sail very close to line of Calvinism. That being said, Thomism is an acceptable position to take within Catholicism. However, it shouldn’t be presented as the “Catholic position” since, when presented with the Thomistic position and Molinism, the Church refused to choose either way. The Church DID, however, decree that supporters of the two positions were prohibited from accusing each other of heresy.

 

[Latin]

AveOTheotokos:

If you find the word ignorant offensive, then you are ignorant of the definition of ignorant.

Unfortunately, it is not ignorance, but a deep personal conviction in the "P’ in the Calvanistic TULIP.

God bless you Guanophore and God bless every readers of the CAF.
.
Thank you for your post, I like it, even made me laugh, I thought seems you know me.
.
Of course through my “cherry picking” posts not hard to know me.
.
The truth is, I don’t consider my posts “cherry picking” posts, rather with my posts I only cut through the unimportant stuff which only would cause confusion, and go straight to the theological facts.
.
.

You said Guanophore:
Unfortunately, it is not ignorance, but a deep personal conviction in the "P’ in the Calvanistic TULIP.
.

To make exactly correct your above statement, I modify it as follows:

Fortunately, it is not ignorance, but an absolute personal conviction in the "P’ in the “Catholic TULIP.” – l have to admit I LOVE that “P.”
.
.
Well, that “P” was in St. Thomas Aquinas’ Summa Theologiae long before that “P” was in the Calvanistic TULIP.
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In fact that “P” is Formal teachings of the Catholic Church and Infallible teachings of the Trent, and that “P” is absolutely based on the Scripture.
.

I’m sure Calvin adopted that “P” from St. Thomas Aquinas’ Summa Theologiae.
.

Sadly, because of lack of Catholic education, probable from 100 Catholics 99 doesn’t know what is that mysterious and very important “P.”
.
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NOW I PRESENT THIS VERY IMPORTANT “P.” – In fact without this God’s gift of “P,” the entire human race would end up in hell without exception.
.
“P” = perseverance of the elect (until the end of life).
.
Catholics even have a special name for the GRACE God gives His children/elect: “The Gift of Final “P”erseverance.”
.
Quote: St. Thomas Aquinas, In his Summa Theologiae he wrote:

[P]erseverance is called he abiding in good TO the end of life.

And in order to have this perseverance man . . . needs the divine assistance guiding him and guarding him against the attacks of the passions . . . that he may be kept from evil TILL the end of his life (ST IIa:109:10)
.

Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
.

This same teaching was infallibly taught by the Council of Trent after the Protestant Reformation.
.

A Tiptoe Through TULIP by James Akin

Quote: Trent’s Decree of Justification, canon 16, speaks of “That Great and Special Gift of Final Perseverance,” and chapter 13 of the decree speaks of “the gift of perseverance of which it is written:
.
‘He who perseveres to the end shall be saved [Matt. 10:22, 24:13],’ Which cannot be obtained from anyone except from Him who is able to make him who stands to stand [Rom. 14:4].”
.
Aquinas said it always saves a person because of the kind of grace it is;
The gift of final perseverance always works.
.
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Catholics even have a special name for the GRACE God gives these people: “The Gift of Final Perseverance.”
.

The Church formally teaches that there is a gift of final perseverance.
[43] Aquinas (and even Molina) said this grace always ensures that a person will persevere.
[44] Aquinas said, “Predestination [to final salvation] most certainly and infallibly takes effect.”
.
In order to have this perseverance man…needs the divine assistance guiding and guarding him against the attacks of the passions…” End quote
.
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At baptism every child,CALLED TO ETERNAL LIFE is a recipient of God’s free gift of Salvation/Everlasting Life and His special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance, which is an Eternal Protection of the Salvation/Eternal Life of every child/elect of God.
.

Without God’s special grace The Gift of Final “P”erseverance every Child of God CALLED TO ETERNAL LIFE would end up in hell.
.

Does God’s Justice demands to give every one of us His undeserved gift of “P” (because without the “P” every one of us Eternal Life would be in hell)? – Something to think about.
.
I believe, God has no shortage of “P.”
So, He has one “P” for every one of us.
.

Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
.

THE WAY GOD SETS OUR ETERNAL LIFE WITH HIM.
.
FIRST STEP

CCCS = Catechism of the Catholic Church Simplified.

Explaining Justification
The grace of God’s Justification CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.

Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
.
.
SECOND STEP

The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998)
Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.

This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will. End quote.
.

THIRD STEP

Catholics even have a special name for the GRACE God gives His people: “The Gift of Final “P”erseverance, we have received it at our Initial Justification.”
.
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CCCS 1990-1991 + CCCS 1996-1998 + “P” = At CCCS 1990-1991 God IRREVOCABLY set us for Eternity with Him.
.

The above formula is very clear and it is undeniable Theological Fact.
.
.

IF ANYONE CONSIDER TO CONTRADICT IT FIRST HAVE TO CONTRADICT THE SCRIPTURE AS FOLLOWS:
.
Eph.1:4-5;
For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world … He predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.
.
Rom.8:30;
Those whom He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.
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Eph.1:11;
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.
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John 6:65; … no one can come to Me unless it is granted to him by the Father.
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John 6:44; No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him.
.

Acts 13:48; … As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
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John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
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COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 Chapter 8
… We are therefore said to be justified freely, because that none of those things which precede justification-whether faith or works-merit the grace itself of justification.
.

If someone can contradict the above system, please let me know.
.
God bless you Guanophore and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

 

[ratio1]

Just a friendly and gentle reminder.
Under forum conduct rules in the section “keep it tidy” there is no need to sign yourself.

 

[Latin]

Just a friendly and gentle reminder.
Under forum conduct rules in the section “keep it tidy” there is no need to sign yourself.

Thank you for your reminder, I do my best.
Are you ratio1 a moderator or a helpful member who just want to help?
But thank you in either way.