Is our free will absolute?

[goout]

In Exodus, I read that God made the Egyptian king stubborn

You have to be careful not to insist on a fundamentalist interpretation of scripture. It’s probably safe to say that Exodus is not making a theological statement about coercion vs free will here with the word “made”. Can that change the complexion of the passage? I think so.

so He could perform many miracles and prove His supreme power.

And maybe this is the big picture: out of the stubbornness of Pharaoh God’s glory shines through.

 

[PJM]

In Exodus, I read that God made the Egyptian king stubborn so He could perform many miracles and prove His supreme power.

However, everyday, we see on television news of rape, robbery, and gory murder. Why doesn’t God intervene to prevent these things from happening? Do you think that in this new era, God had decided to make our free will absolute?

The accounts you reference in Exodus and “making the Pharaoh stubborn” is to be correctly understood as:

The Pharaoh himself choose to be obstinate and God permitted it; NOT that He affected Pharaoh’s freewill.

As to your second point:

Sir.15: 17 Before a man are life and death, and whichever he chooses will be given to him.

In all of creation of the Universe, only one thing is “RATIONAL”; humanity

Gen 1: 26-27 teaches we were created in the very Image of God
John 4:23-24 teaches us that GOD is a “Spirit”

So then how doe mortal man emulate our God who is a Spirit?

God is Rational and so is the Human-Soal; which too is Rational

Our mind,s & intellect are the essential attributes that combine to make our “freewill” a reality

Life is a GOD-TEST: We are to choose hell or heaven by our life’s decisions. God commits Himself to OFFER sufficient grace that everyone can, could and should know Him. What is Good and evil is written on the hearts and minds of all humans.

"And this is the testament which I will make unto them after those days, saith the Lord. I will give my laws in their hearts, and on their minds will I write them:" [Hebrews 10:16]

God in order to BE GOD, can permit evil as a part of life’s GOD EXAM; but God cannot be the direct willed cause of evil.

God Bless
PJM

 

[Latin]

If I could make a gentle suggestion…(maybe it’s just me)
excessive formatting makes your posts hard to follow. They make me anxious, as if you are shouting at us.

God bless you Goout and God bless every readers of the CAF.

I’m sorry about you don’t like my formatting.

In fact when I do only one subject with a short post my formatting is the same as your formatting in your post # 59 which I consider a very good formatting easy to read.

When I do long post with different subjects need a different formatting for the reason to separate the different subject from each other.

Many people like my formatting, in particular older readers, I’m 74 and I cannot even read posts when every lines filled up with words.

Shouldn’t feel emphasis shouting at you, it is only emphasis to take extra consideration.

God bless you Goout and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

 

[Latin]

From “A Tiptoe Through TULIP”:

Although a Catholic may agree with unconditional election, he may not affirm “double-predestination,” a doctrine Calvinists often infer from it. This teaching claims that in addition to electing some people to salvation God also sends others to damnation.

The alternative to double-predestination is to say that while God predestines some people, he simply passes over the remainder. They will not come to God, but it is because of their inherent sin, not because God damns them. This is the doctrine of passive reprobation, which Aquinas taught [16].

God bless you AveOTheotokos and God bless every readers of the CAF.
.

The official teachings of the Church on the decree the Divine reprobation as follows:
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Predestination of the elect.
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Quote: The COUNTERPART of the predestination of the good is the decree the Divine "reprobation."
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The conceptual difference between the two kinds of reprobation lies in this:

The Catholic reprobation is NEGATIVE REPROBATION.
Merely implies the absolute will not to grant the bliss of heaven, though not positively predestined to hell, yet they are absolutely predestined not to go to heaven (cf. above, I, B).
.

The Calvinistic reprobation is POSITIVE REPROBATION.
Calvinistic reprobation means the absolute will to condemn to hell. End quote.
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CONTINUATION OF THE CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Predestination of the elect.
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Quote: For the absolute predestination of the blessed is at the same time the absolute will of God “not to elect” a priori the rest of mankind (Suarez), or which comes to the same, “to exclude them from heaven” (Gonet), in other words, not to save them.
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How can that will to save be called serious and sincere which has decreed from all eternity the metaphysical impossibility of salvation?
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He who has been reprobated negatively, may exhaust all his efforts to attain salvation: it avail’s him nothing.
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Lessius rightly says that it would be indifferent to him whether he was numbered among those reprobated positively or negatively; for, in either case, his eternal damnation would be certain. End quote.
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[16]. In all three cases, our eternal damnation would be certain.
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Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
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OUR SALVATION IS GOD’S DECISION NOT OURS. - This is Theological Fact, yet because of lack of knowledge, many Christian doesn’t understand it.
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The grace of God’s Justification CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.

Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us. - These UNDESERVED Gifts of graces of God EMPOWERS us to ALWAYS positively respond the God’s call.

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CCCS (1996-1998) God’s call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will. - Then, we ALWAYS say yes to God’s call.
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John 6:65; … no one can come to Me unless it is granted to him by the Father.
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John 6:44; No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him.
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Acts 13:48; … As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
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John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
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So, I ask from you AveOTheotokos, what difference would that make for us if we numbered among those reprobated positively or negatively or God just simply passes over us?
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God bless you AveOTheotokos and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

 

[AveOTheotokos]

So, I ask from you AveOTheotokos, what difference would that make for us if we numbered among those reprobated positively or negatively or God just simply passes over us?

THIS is the question to be asking.

Why does it matter if God positively predestines us to Hell, or if He passes over those who He knows will refuse His grace?

Just as it is important to define other things in our faith (what the Trinity is and whether it exists or not, if Mary is the Mother of God or not, if Jesus was begotten or created, etc…), answering this question does make a difference because in answering this, we are defining who God is.

Is God a tyrant or a monster who forces some to love Him by overwhelming them with grace and damns others to the fires of Hell and an eternity of torment by withholding grace?

Or is God a loving Father and Creator, who knows us from eternity and grants help and perseverance through grace to those whom He knows will, of their own free will choice, cooperate with His will and His grace; and those whom He knows will refuse His will and His grace, He provides them a sufficient amount of grace and an offer of salvation, even though He knows it will be rejected and they will not cooperate with the grace and salvation found in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ?

Answering this question matters because it both defines who God is, and what our role/responsibility is in life. If God positively saves some and positively condemns others, then there is absolutely no free will, and there is no point to ever choose to do anything that you don’t desire to do. If God has chosen you, it wouldn’t matter what you choose to do in life, eventually you will be overwhelmed by a persevering grace that will override and your ability to choose will be removed.

Likewise, if you are numbered among the reprobate, it wouldn’t matter what you choose to do in life, because no action on your part can save you; grace and salvation have been withheld from you and you are damned to eternal suffering… your entire creation and existence is merely a cruel joke meant to please a tyrannical God who created you not out of love for you, but only to please His own will.

What kind of father would bring life into existence, and then withhold what is necessary for that life to flourish?

John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

 

[AveOTheotokos]

Matthew 22:9-14 Go therefore to the thoroughfares, and invite to the marriage feast as many as you find.’
10 And those servants went out into the streets and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good; so the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment;
12 and he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless.
13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, and cast him into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.’
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”

We are all called, and we are all given an invitation; the sufficient grace to come to and choose Him. Some never come, while others may come, but do not clothe themselves with Christ; they arrive without the “wedding garment”.

God doesn’t withhold from us; we just reject what He offers and refuse Him.

Hebrews 12:1-3 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us,
2 looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.

Why would we be exhorted to “run with perseverance” or to “consider him who endured” if our own cooperation or our own actions didn’t matter and we were saved or damned at the whim of God?

Colossians1:22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him,
23 provided that you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which has been preached to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.
24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

Why would we be exhorted to “continue in the faith” and why would our sufferings “complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions” if our salvation or damnation was entirely fixed by God and we had no free will and no ability to cooperate with or refuse the grace of God?

 

[Latin]

God bless you AveOTheotokos and God bless every readers of the CAF.
.

We have been born spiritually dead and condemned. – Rom.5:17-18.
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At our recreation, God makes NO ONE to be a disobedient junk. – CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
.
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence.
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Quote: Life everlasting promised to us, (Romans 5:21); but unaided we can do nothing to gain it (Rom.7:18-24).
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It is grace of Christ that delivers us (Rom.7:25); and makes us co-heirs with Him (Rom.8:17).
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This, the beneficent purpose of an all-seeing Providence, is wholly gratuitous, entirely unmerited (Romans 3:24; 9:11-2).
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It extends to all men (Romans 2:10; 1 Timothy 2:4), even to the reprobate Jews (Romans 11:26 sq.); and by it all God’s dealings with man are regulated (Ephesians 1:11).
.
It extends to every individual, adapting itself to the needs of each (St. John Chrysostom, “Hom. xxviii in Matt.”, n. 3 in “P.G.”, LVII, 354).
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All things are created and governed with a view to man, to the development of his life and his intelligence, and to the satisfaction of his needs (Aristides, “Apol.”, i, v, vi, xv, xvi.
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His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.
.
That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God.
.
The universe is a system of real beings created by God and directed by Him to this supreme end, the concurrence of God being necessary for all natural operations, whether of things animate or inanimate, and still more so for operations of the supernatural order.
.
(Concurrence = Agreement or union in action: COOPERATION) – In the brackets is addition.
.
God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities.
.

Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
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Thus things happen contingently as well as of necessity (I, Q. xxii, a. 4), for God has given to different things different ways of acting, and His concurrence is given accordingly (I, Q. xxii, a. 4).
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Yet all things, whether due to necessary causes or to the free choice of man, are foreseen by God and preordained in accordance with His all-embracing purpose.
.
Hence Providence is at once universal, immediate, efficacious, and without violence:
.
Universal, because all things are subject to it (I, Q. xxii, a. 2; ciii, a. 5); immediate, in that though God acts through secondary causes, yet all alike postulate Divine concurrence and receive their powers of operation from Him (I, Q. xxii, a. 3; Q. ciii, a. 6);
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Efficacious, in that all things minister to God’s final purpose, a purpose which cannot be frustrated (Contra Gent., III, xciv);
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In spite of sin, which is due to the willful perversion of human liberty, acting with the concurrence, but contrary to the purpose and intention of God and in spite of evil which is the consequence of sin, He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.
.
Sin is not ordained by the will of God, though it happens with His permission.
.

Evil He converts into good (Genesis 1:20; cf. Psalm 90:10); and suffering He uses as an instrument whereby to train men up as a father traineth up his children (Deuteronomy 8:1-6; Psalm 65:2-10;
.

Nor would God permit evil at all, unless He could draw good out of evil (St. Augustine, “Enchir.”, xi in “P.L.”, LX, 236; “Serm.”
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Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.”,
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm
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God bless you AveOTheotokos and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

 

[AveOTheotokos]

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Predestinarianism

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12376b.htm

 

[goout]

God bless you AveOTheotokos and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

This boils down to a fairly simple matter and I would like to hear your specific response to this.

God knows what he knows, and he knows it outside time. Our past and our future destiny are “as one moment” for God.

By contrast, creatures live in time. We choose and act by our will from moment to moment.

God’s eternal vision is unapproachable by the human intellect. And His nature does not violate our nature.

What you are doing is taking God’s nature and applying it to human beings. That cannot work because we are not God. You are claiming knowledge that belongs to God alone and using it to violate human free will. You don’t have that knowledge.

We are completely free to choose God, and at the same time… God knows the consequences and destiny of our freedom.

and at the same time… this is a key concept in Catholic thought. The both/and.

God violating free will is utterly incompatible with God’s own self revelation.
God is love. Love is relationship. Loving relationship only exists in freedom.

If you are running afoul of basic Christian concepts, you should seriously reconsider you position.

(edit: from your Catholic Encyclopedia article

To all these and similar questions the only reasonable reply is the word of St. Augustine (loc. cit., 21): “Inscrutabilia sunt judicia Dei” (the judgments of God are inscrutable).

 

[Latin]

God bless you Goout and God bless every readers of the CAF.
Thank you for your post.
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I’m sorry but my response is USELESS without to try present for you the whole picture.

It is useless if I present for you only a part of the subject without the fullness of it.
Yet of course still not the fullness, but gives you sum light on the subject.
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Eph.1:11;
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.
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We are not in total darkness, if we know an overall picture of God’s Eternal Design/Plan/Universal Script.

God has made His Eternal Design/Plan/Universal Script before the foundation of the world and since then God working on to complete His Design/Plan/Universal Script.
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Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence.
.
Life everlasting promised to us, (Romans 5:21); but unaided we can do nothing to gain it (Rom.7:18-24).
.
This, the beneficent purpose of an all-seeing Providence, is wholly gratuitous, entirely unmerited (Romans 3:24; 9:11-2).
.
It extends to all men (Romans 2:10; 1 Timothy 2:4), even to the reprobate Jews (Romans 11:26 sq.); and by it all God’s dealings with man are regulated (Ephesians 1:11).
.
It extends to every individual, adapting itself to the needs of each (St. John Chrysostom, “Hom.xxviii in Matt.”, n. 3 in “P.G.”, LVII, 354).
.
All things are created and governed with a view to man, to the development of his life and his intelligence, and to the satisfaction of his needs (Aristides, “Apol.”, i).
.
His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.
.
The universe is a system of real beings created by God and directed by Him to this supreme end, the concurrence of God being necessary for all natural operations, whether of things animate or inanimate, and still more so for operations of the supernatural order.
.
(Concurrence = Agreement or union in action: COOPERATION) – In the brackets is addition.
.
God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities.
.
Thus things happen contingently as well as of necessity (I, Q. xxii, a. 4), for God has given to different things different ways of acting, and His concurrence is given accordingly (I, Q. xxii, a. 4).
.
Yet all things, whether due to necessary causes or to the free choice of man, are foreseen by God and preordained in accordance with His all-embracing purpose.
.
Hence Providence is at once universal, immediate, efficacious, and without violence:
.
Universal, because all things are subject to it (I, Q. xxii, a. 2; ciii, a. 5); immediate, in that though God acts through secondary causes, yet all alike postulate Divine concurrence and receive their powers of operation from Him (I, Q. xxii, a. 3; Q. ciii, a. 6);
.
Efficacious, in that all things minister to God’s final purpose, a purpose which cannot be frustrated (Contra Gent., III, xciv);
.
In spite of sin, which is due to the willful perversion of human liberty, acting with the concurrence, but contrary to the purpose and intention of God and in spite of evil which is the consequence of sin, He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.
.
Evil He converts into good (Genesis 1:20; cf. Psalm 90:10); and suffering He uses as an instrument whereby to train men up as a father traineth up his children (Deuteronomy 8:1-6; Psalm 65:2-10;
.
Nor would God permit evil at all, unless He could draw good out of evil (St. Augustine, “Enchir.”, xi in “P.L.”, LX, 236; “Serm.”
.
Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.”,

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm
.

Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
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KEY POINTS TO UNDERSTAND
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Quote from the Divine Providence:
His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.
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Yet all things, whether due to necessary causes or to the free choice of man, are foreseen by God and preordained in accordance with His all-embracing purpose. End quote.
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As we see above: All events happen in the universe down to its minutest details are foreordained, and happening according to God’s Eternal Design/Plan/Universal Script which made before the foundation of the world and since then God working on to complete His Design/Plan/Universal Script.
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As we see above, nothing happen in the universe by chance, everything down to its minutest details happening according to God’s foreordained Eternal Design.
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Quote from the Divine Providence:
That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God. End quote.
.

It makes no difference how we cut it, the “fall” of Adam and Eve happened according to God’s foreordained Design/Plan/Universal Script for the benefit of the whole human race,it wasn’t an accident as I use to believe.
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Quote from the Divine Providence:
Nor would God permit evil at all, unless He could draw good out of evil (St. Augustine, “Enchir.”, xi in “P.L.”, LX, 236; “Serm.”
.
Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.” End quote.
.

We all born into this world spiritually dead and condemned in line with God’s foreordained Design/Plan/Universal Script. – Rom.5:17-18.
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Quote from the Divine Providence:
Evil He converts into good (Genesis 1:20; cf. Psalm 90:10); and suffering He uses as an instrument whereby to train men up as a father traineth up his children (Deuteronomy 8:1-6; Psalm 65:2-10; End quote.
.
If we don’t know God’s Plan, we tend to think, this chaos in the world is mistakes and it is the creation of men, it is not mistakes of men, but a very much organized chaos which is an important part of God’s Plan for the benefit of the human race.
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Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
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NOW ABOUT OUR FREE WILL: IT IS ABSOLUTE?

God is the Supreme ruler of the Universe, NOTHING happen in the universe without God’s permission.
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Some Christian believe, our free will is unlimited and God is not free to influence of it, because in this case our free will would not be free will.
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They doesn’t consider, the program of our brains controls our will, and the program of our brains is designed by God.
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So, at the end of the day our free will is controlled by God’s program.

Of course in this program a limited free will and actions which God pre approved and cooperate with and preordained built in.
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Quote from the Divine Providence:
Yet all things, whether due to necessary causes or to the free choice of man, are foreseen by God and preordained in accordance with His all-embracing purpose.
.
The universe is a system of real beings created by God and directed by Him to this supreme end, the concurrence of God being necessary for all natural operations, whether of things animate or inanimate, and still more so for operations of the supernatural order.
.
His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized. End quote.
.

Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
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WE HAVE NOTHING WHAT WE DON’T HAVE FROM GOD.
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WE KNOW THREE DIFFERENT PROGRAMS THAT GOD PUTS INTO DIFFERENT PEOPLE’S BRAINS.
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God built into all three programs different kind of free will which makes us responsible for our actions.

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I. – THE PROGRAM OF THE “FALL,” OR NATURAL PROGRAM – We may call this program the condemned people’s program.
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We all born with this program in our brains.
The characteristics of the condemned people’s program in their brains.
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Rom.2:15; … The law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.
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Rom.8:6-7; The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
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1 Cor.3:14; The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
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John 6:65; … no one can come to Me unless it is granted to him by the Father.
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John 6:44; No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him.
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Acts 13:48; … As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
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John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
.

According to the above program in their brains, they are alive in the natural realm, they have a limited free will in this realm which makes them responsible for their actions, but they are spiritually dead concerning the spiritual realm.
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This is the reason they cannot say yes to God’s gift of salvation, salvation is foolishness to them, for them to say yes to God’s gift of salvation they need a different program in their brains.
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Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
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II. – THE PROGRAM OF THE RECREATION OR SPIRITUAL PROGRAM – We may call this program, the Born Again program, there is no salvation without this program in our brains.

If this program would fail in the brains of God’s elect, God would lose His omniscience, DE FIDE Dogma. + Infallible teaching of the Trent. – If this program would fail then the creator of the program would fail.
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Ez. 36: 26-27; I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my Spirit in you and cause you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
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CCCS = Catechism of the Catholic Church Simplified.

Explaining Justification
The grace of God’s Justification CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.

Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
.
The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998)
Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.

This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will. End quote.
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1 Cor.2:15-16; The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,
16 for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
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Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”
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Aquinas said, “God changes the will without forcing it.
But he can change the will from the fact that He himself operates in the will as He does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9.

God operates in our will by His program in our brains, of course this program includes our limited free will as well, only God has absolute free will, and those who are already in heaven, because their free will is in 100% line with God’s will.
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Continue

 

[Latin]

Continuation
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ST. AUGUSTINE ON GRACE AND PREDESTINATION

De gratia Christi 25, 26:
"For not only has God given us our ability and helps it, but He even works [brings about] willing and acting in us; not that we do not will or that we do not act, but that without His help we neither will anything good nor do it."
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De gratia et libero arbitrio 16, 32:
"It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good. . . . It is certain that we act when we act, but He brings it about that we act, PROVIDING MOST EFFECTIVE POWERS TO THE WILL."
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Similarly, the Council of Orange Canon 25 states, "In every good work, it is not we who begin … but He (God) first inspires us." (#329.2)
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CCC 154; Believing is possible only by grace and the interior helps of the Holy Spirit. …
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CCC 155; In faith, the human intellect and will cooperate with divine grace: "Believing is an act of the intellect assenting to the divine truth by command of the will MOVED by God through grace."

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CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”
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In other words, when God commands, He capacities the hearer to respond.

Our cooperation with the grace of God is produced (not just enabled) by God’s operation.
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Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.
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Phil.1:6; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)
And I am SURE that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
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This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.
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III. – THE HEAVENLY PROGRAM OR THE PROGRAM IN THEIR BRAINS WHO ARE ALREADY IN HEAVEN.

They have absolute free will because this program in their brains is in 100 % line with the will of God.

Whatever they freely will it is always in 100 % line with the will of God.

So, we just have to wait for our absolute free will until we are in heaven.
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Someone may ask, why didn’t we born with THE PROGRAM in our brains, THE PROGRAM OF THE RECREATION, or even better THE HEAVENLY PROGRAM in our brains, then our free will would be absolute, we would never will to sin?
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We can read the answer to this question in the DIVINE PROVIDENCE.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm
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God bless you Goout and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

 

[goout]

God bless you Goout and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

God bless you also.
How do you specifically respond to these two items:

1. We live in time, God does not live in time. God’s knowledge or our eternal destiny, what we call “pre-destination”, is not accessible to us because God is outside of time.
2. If God is love, and love is relationship, both parties must have completely free will to choose the other. Otherwise this is not love if the freedom of parties is constrained.

How do you view those two items?
You are putting a lot of scripture and definitions out there, but we have no mutual understanding of the above items.

 

[Latin]

God bless you Goout and god bless every readers of the CAF.
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According to the Trent our eternal destiny is accessible to us, and according to the Scripture, God COMMANDED us to TEST our election.
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Canon from the Sixth Session of the Council of Trent:

CANON XVI.-“If any one saith, that he will for certain, of an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance unto the end,-unless he HAVE LEARNED THIS BY SPECIAL REVELATION; let him be anathema.” Emphasize mine.
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According to the Trent:
If we have learned it from GOD’S SPECIAL REVELATION we can know it with certainty, THAT WE HAVE God’s great gift of perseverance unto the end, which means WE ARE God’s elect.
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Infallible teachings of the Trent:
Those who have God’s special grace, The Gift of Final Perseverance, CAN NOT lose their salvation.

It is also DE FIDE Dogma, an elect of God CAN NOT lose salvation, so every elect of God at their Initial Justification receives God’s Gift of Final Perseverance, which is an Eternal Protection of their salvation.
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So, we have a GREEN LIGHT to believe right now from God’s special revelation with CERTAINTY that we are among God’s elect.
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HOW CAN WE HAVE GOD’S SPECIAL REVELATIONS?

If we are God’s children via our spirits we have a permanent open line communication with God. – We permanently receive God’s leading instructions and His different special revelations.
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Rom.8:14-16;
For as MANY AS are LED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD, these are sons of God.

How could an elect LED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD if they would not have a permanent open line communication with God? – Could not.
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Every elect of God has an open line communication with God, but for lack of knowledge not every elect listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit, which means in reality, the communication line between God and the elect is broken.

This lack of communication does not mean the elect can lose salvation, it means; the elect doesn’t know he is an elect, and doesn’t know he will spend eternity in heaven or in the pains of hell.

For the above reason, many elect of God are in the fear induced paralized state and their great commission (Matt.28:19-20) is their great omission.
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Rom.8:15;
For you did NOT receive the spirit of bondage again to FEAR, but you received the SPIRIT OF ADOPTION by whom we cry out “ABBA, FATHER.”

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God elect.” End quote. – This is God’s first special revelation, many God’s special revelations and instructions will follows.
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How could we cooperate with the grace of God without His special revelations and instructions? – We could not.
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God puts his instructions and special revelations into OUR SPIRITS, via our spirits God’s leading instructions and different special revelations goes into our hearts and to our brains.
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We can receive God’s instructions and special revelations whichever way God wants to give them to us.
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