Is pacifism at all logical?

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triumphguy said:
Would a veteran disrespect Mother Teresa? Or Pope Francis?
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Mother Teresa and Pope Francis never said that force is inherently immoral.
Daizies said:
I was making a joke 😃
Rational thinking says it will never happen (so why waste time worrying about it?)
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I don’t worry about it, pacifism is one of the few insane ideologies that the world will not adopt. My point was that an ideology which would create chaos if it were to be generally accepted is not an ideology that is in accordance with objective order.
 
Daizies said:
I do respect veterans, and current military personnel. Both of my Grandfathers are veterans, and I have friends who serve both in the military and reserves. I’m sorry that others have made you feel disrespected and unappreciated. 😦

As I said before, it is my choice, I do not force it onto others.
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I agree. I have nothing but the utmost respect for our veterans, especially those who lost their lives in service. I applaud you for your sacrifices and for doing what you believe was right. In fact, there are a few rare situations in which I would be willing to serve as a medic or a chaplain; however, it is very unlikely these situations would happen. As Daizies said, my beliefs are mine, and I can’t force them on anyone.
 
Probably not logical.
I believe Christ teaches us simply to not fight.
To put away the swords.
If someone hits us on the cheek turn the other one.
Jesus Chris is the Prince of Peace and this is all he ever taught about it.
Yes there was a big debate about just war, but Jesus didn’t need any long logical debate about it, (this would be like those who use the law to justify themselves), he just said ‘do not kill’ and to live in peace.

PAX VOBISCUM +
 
FrancisBenedict said:
Probably not logical.
I believe Christ teaches us simply to not fight.
To put away the swords.
If someone hits us on the cheek turn the other one.
Jesus Chris is the Prince of Peace and this is all he ever taught about it.
Yes there was a big debate about just war, but Jesus didn’t need any long logical debate about it, (this would be like those who use the law to justify themselves), he just said ‘do not kill’ and to live in peace.

PAX VOBISCUM +
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Fideism? Really?
 
I’m just a simple man (I had to look that up).

Well God I believe is beyond logic, don’t you?
I am a pacifist because Jesus taught us this.

All I meant was logic the way the world sees it usually thinks there should be an answer to violence not just passivity. Of course there is always passive resistance like for example as Gandhi showed.

With God all things are possible.
 
What I’ve learned from this thread is that most people view pacifism only as a ‘physical’ quality. Can pacifism also be a personality type?
 
devoutchristian said:
Mother Teresa and Pope Francis never said that force is inherently immoral.

I don’t worry about it, pacifism is one of the few insane ideologies that the world will not adopt. My point was that an ideology which would create chaos if it were to be generally accepted is not an ideology that is in accordance with objective order.
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er… who said they did???:banghead:

But they were/are pacifists.

Try and think about it: what does the witness of pacifists give?

And why is that witness needed?
 
triumphguy said:
But they were/are pacifists.
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No, that would mean that they opposed force on principle. (you realize that one of them has Swiss Guards under his command who would use lethal force to protect him, hardly a pacifist)
 
devoutchristian said:
No, that would mean that they opposed force on principle. (you realize that one of them has Swiss Guards under his command who would use lethal force to protect him, hardly a pacifist)
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You have no idea if Pope Francis would choose allow the Swiss guards to use lethal force. He may not want them to, but they might see it as their duty to do so anyway.

I’m not arguing about a particular person I’m trying to get the idea across on this forum that pacifists and non-pacifsts might BOTH have important roles in Catholic culture.

I’m not sure why that’s a hard point to get across.:confused:

Without those willing to go to their deaths without defending themselves in the early centuries this Church would not exist.

So how could the Church possibly have grown so much when Christians seemed so willing to let themselves be slaughtered?

Perhaps there was something IMPORTANT to the growth of the Church in their willingness to lay down their lives, and their UNWILLNGNESS to pick up arms and defend themselves.

Don’t you think it’s an idea worth thinking about?
 
Remember, Jesus made a whip of cords and drove out the animals from the temple.
He also overturned the money changers’ tables.

This is the only example I recall where even Jesus was violent.

So, there is just violence.
 
bsroufek said:
Remember, Jesus made a whip of cords and drove out the animals from the temple.
He also overturned the money changers’ tables.

This is the only example I recall where even Jesus was violent.

So, there is just violence.
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Yes - it’s not EITHER/OR it’s BOTH/AND.👍
 
TEPO said:
There were two… They were:
“what does the witness of pacifists give?”
-and-
“And why is that witness needed?”

…remember:)
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Of course I remember I wrote it a few minutes ago, but you didn’t quote it.

Peace isn’t the answer it’s the goal.

Except there will be no peace in this world. It’s not possible in a sinful world.

That’s why you need pacifists… and truly Christian men in the armed forces.
 
triumphguy said:
Of course I remember I wrote it a few minutes ago, but you didn’t quote it.

Peace isn’t the answer it’s the goal.

Except there will be no peace in this world. It’s not possible in a sinful world.

That’s why you need pacifists… and truly Christian men in the armed forces.
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Okay… So if peace isn’t the answer then what is?
 
Peace does NOT mean non-violence. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, but in the Temple was violent toward the animals and money changers.

He also said that if our eye offends us, tear it out. Basically, this means that force/violence has a place in Peace.
 
triumphguy said:
Yes - it’s not EITHER/OR it’s BOTH/AND.👍
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bsroufek said:
Peace does NOT mean non-violence. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, but in the Temple was violent toward the animals and money changers.

He also said that if our eye offends us, tear it out. Basically, this means that force/violence has a place in Peace.
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Both/And

And the “if you eye offends thee” quote isn’t really about OKaying violence to yourself;)
 
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